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[Banjax]

Banjax - assuming you are right. What is your proposed solution to what you percieve to be this terrible problem ? :-/

wow - big question Albs, considering banks create wealth and decide who and what to fund its an almost impossible vicious circle that could of been broken recently with braver politicians but making it illegal for banks to create money would be a start and allow governments to be the ones to create money for civil engineering projects, schools, libraries, hospitals, etc

I'm not an expert but i'm sure smart people on lots of money can figure it out 

[Dishevelled Den]

Banjax - assuming you are right. What is your proposed solution to what you percieve to be this terrible problem ? :-/

"yes.. the community must own the production tools and money making power.. otherwise the bankers will get everything.. "

what surprises me Albs ,   a worker like you, dont accept this solution   :-/

In theory I would like to see that cem, the only thing is - as in most cases - given the tendency for human beings to try and better their position over that of their neighbours it will almost certainly always be the case of ‘all people are equal - only some are more equal than others’

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Banjax - assuming you are right. What is your proposed solution to what you percieve to be this terrible problem ? :-/

"yes.. the community must own the production tools and money making power.. otherwise the bankers will get everything.. "

what surprises me Albs ,   a worker like you, dont accept this solution   :-/

In theory I would like to see that cem, the only thing is - as in most cases - given the tendency for human beings to try and better their position over that of their neighbours it will almost certainly always be the case of ‘all people are equal - only some are more equal than others’

For me the answer in theory is to adopt the ideas of Plato in The Republic c.380 BC.  Very thought provoking philosophy that could form the perfect society, and take monetary reward away from the bankers! 8-) 8-) 8-)

[cem_devecioglu]

Banjax - assuming you are right. What is your proposed solution to what you percieve to be this terrible problem ? :-/

"yes.. the community must own the production tools and money making power.. otherwise the bankers will get everything.. "

what surprises me Albs ,   a worker like you, dont accept this solution   :-/

In theory I would like to see that cem, the only thing is - as in most cases - given the tendency for human beings to try and better their position over that of their neighbours it will almost certainly always be the case of ‘all people are equal - only some are more equal than others’

correct dosage of ambition is something understandable (not the violent one that the capitalist system imposes ).. And its good for the future of community Zulu.. Although humans are not equal,  giving them equal chances of education and some civil services is a good starting point..   why cant a postmans children cant go Eton college or the likes ?

[albitz]

Banjax - assuming you are right. What is your proposed solution to what you percieve to be this terrible problem ? :-/

"yes.. the community must own the production tools and money making power.. otherwise the bankers will get everything.. "

what surprises me Albs ,   a worker like you, dont accept this solution   :-/

It has been proved time and time again Cem that Marxism does not work, and worse it suffocates the human spirit,removes aspiration, ambition,individualism and creativity.
I am amazed that anyone can still hold any believe in this ill thought out theory.
I dont know if any postmans children have ever gone to Eton, but we used to have a system of Grammar schools in this country, where children who were obviously bright could receive an exceptional education, regardless of background or wealth.
The socialists have almost cpmpletely removed this system, and the very few of these schools which remain are under constant and severe attack from socialist politicians at local level.
The reason - they are elitist, they dont allow for all children to be taught at the same level - because we are all the same, in the socialist mentality. We now have the "comprehensive" system of education, which has dumbed down education in the U.K. to the point where our schools are sliding down the world tables and our education system is a chaotic shambles.
School leavers these days very often are educated worse than 9 year olds used to be imo.
We are fortunate where we live that we still have a few Grammar schools (for the time being) and both my children were considered bright enough to go there, even though I have spent most of my working life shovelling concrete.
These schools are considered politically to be so right wing, that our modern day slightly right wing Tory party is too frightened to say a word in support of them.All  the main parties are much more interested in either their own position or imposing their own idealogy than they are in the education of our children.
So a society of everyone being treated exactly equal would imo be a living nightmare.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Banjax - assuming you are right. What is your proposed solution to what you percieve to be this terrible problem ? :-/

"yes.. the community must own the production tools and money making power.. otherwise the bankers will get everything.. "

what surprises me Albs ,   a worker like you, dont accept this solution   :-/

In theory I would like to see that cem, the only thing is - as in most cases - given the tendency for human beings to try and better their position over that of their neighbours it will almost certainly always be the case of ‘all people are equal - only some are more equal than others’

correct dosage of ambition is something understandable (not the violent one that the capitalist system imposes ).. And its good for the future of community Zulu.. Although humans are not equal,  giving them equal chances of education and some civil services is a good starting point..   why cant a postmans children cant go Eton college or the likes ?

That is all very well covered by Plato Cem and if The Republic became reality those points would all be resolved 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)

[dragonlord]

1.Who creates money?


2.Who decides how newly created money is used?


3.Who gets the profit from newly created money?



and I'll bet you thought you lived in a democracy - I don't remember voting for any of them 

After the last labour government arrogantly ruined our country by forcing things upon us, no one can possible think we live in a democracy.

do you honistlt belive that what ever govrment are in are running anything?
there just puppets on strings

to keep the average morons working out that were all in a dictator ship

[albitz]

Banjax. Afaik Governments can print money, but they cant create wealth.
Banks do not decide what happens to all the new money which is created. Governments largely decide that by levying taxes in ways and amounts that they deem appropriate. They then redistribute it as they see fit.
This currently accounts for approx. 50% of all money earned in the U.K. - depending on which set of figures you choose to believe.

[cem_devecioglu]

Banjax - assuming you are right. What is your proposed solution to what you percieve to be this terrible problem ? :-/

"yes.. the community must own the production tools and money making power.. otherwise the bankers will get everything.. "

what surprises me Albs ,   a worker like you, dont accept this solution   :-/

It has been proved time and time again Cem that Marxism does not work,

it does work .. the socialist communities (from a poor economy level)  reached same level of technology and social services compared to capitalist countries without exploiting other countries.. and they succeed in this under extreme economic conditions that the capitalist world tried every evil way on them..

 and worse it suffocates the human spirit,removes aspiration, ambition,individualism and creativity.

 

Albs, these are the ready pills of the "system" from cold war era.. you gulp it or not.. its up to you.. but economic conditions of world markets proove the truth to be reverse..

one point to note , past and living experiences of Marx economic model are successful in proportion to the content they applied it..

but there is something very obvious, pumping the money continously to bankers/high classes definitely dont solve the problems of communities ..

I am amazed that anyone can still hold any believe in this ill thought out theory.

better than pumping my money to someone who is million times richer than me..

[cem_devecioglu]

Banjax. Afaik Governments can print money, but they cant create wealth.
Banks do not decide what happens to all the new money which is created.

Banks are so critical that they are like hearts in a body that pump the blood .. apart from that, banks like federal reserve or central banks are like the brains.. they control everything..and create money in some ratio to the production of community..
Governments largely decide that by levying taxes in ways and amounts that they deem appropriate. They then redistribute it as they see fit.
This currently accounts for approx. 50% of all money earned in the U.K. - depending on which set of figures you choose to believe.

[Tony H]

1.Who creates money?


2.Who decides how newly created money is used?


3.Who gets the profit from newly created money?



and I'll bet you thought you lived in a democracy - I don't remember voting for any of them 

I agree Banjax!

The hard fact is it is not all about democracy ruling, but so often International Bankers and their institutions who rule!  It has been this way for a very long time, although I am not fully knowledgeable by a long way on banking and monetary techniques. 

Two things I do know is:

1.  The Bank Of England do not have enough gold to honour payments on all the notes and coinage out there in the system.  To me that means we always live beyond our actual financial situation

2.  Without the International banking system much in history could not have taken place.  The Nazis in relatively modern history is a good example of this fact, with their whole war effort only possible due to the financing made available to them by Swiss, American and British bankers, amongst others, in a consortium that lasted from the 1930s to 1945.

Who rules our countries indeed?!

The current situation proves how the dog is waged by the (bankers) tail!

No wonder we are in a financial mess if dogs have been put on the payrole

[Dishevelled Den]

correct dosage of ambition is something understandable (not the violent one that the capitalist system imposes ).. And its good for the future of community Zulu.. Although humans are not equal,  giving them equal chances of education and some civil services is a good starting point..   why cant a postmans children cant go Eton college or the likes ?

not the violent one that the capitalist system imposes

  You didn't disappoint me there cem.

Yes it certainly is desirable that all people are given the chance of education, a stable environment, a loving family unit, productive and rewarding employment, freedom from oppression (both secular and religious) and above all, the opportunity to be the best that they can possibly be - unfortunately in all systems, particularly in the ones we usually discuss here, these desirable things don't always filter down to those who would seek the opportunity to explore, exploit and experience them.

In my view this is very much part of the human condition rather than the dogma of social/political orientation or system.  We humans can't help it as, in many cases, it is part of our collective nature.

[albitz]

We have been round in circles with this conversation before Cem, and I will finish with the same question I finished with last time. Why are most of the people in the socialist utopia of Cuba trying anything they can think of - including risking life and limb - to leave their homeland and reach the shores of that evil empire known as the U.S.A. and it is unheard of for any ordinary working people from the U.S.A. bothering to get on a plane and emigrating to Cuba??

[cem_devecioglu]

Banjax - assuming you are right. What is your proposed solution to what you percieve to be this terrible problem ? :-/

"yes.. the community must own the production tools and money making power.. otherwise the bankers will get everything.. "

what surprises me Albs ,   a worker like you, dont accept this solution   :-/

It has been proved time and time again Cem that Marxism does not work, and worse it suffocates the human spirit,removes aspiration, ambition,individualism and creativity.
I am amazed that anyone can still hold any believe in this ill thought out theory.
I dont know if any postmans children have ever gone to Eton,

no chance Albs :-/


but we used to have a system of Grammar schools in this country, where children who were obviously bright could receive an exceptional education, regardless of background or wealth.

thats fine

The socialists have almost cpmpletely removed this system, and the very few of these schools which remain are under constant and severe attack from socialist politicians at local level.
The reason - they are elitist, they dont allow for all children to be taught at the same level - because we are all the same, in the socialist mentality. We now have the "comprehensive" system of education, which has dumbed down education in the U.K. to the point where our schools are sliding down the world tables and our education system is a chaotic shambles.
School leavers these days very often are educated worse than 9 year olds used to be imo.
We are fortunate where we live that we still have a few Grammar schools (for the time being) and both my children were considered bright enough to go there, even though I have spent most of my working life shovelling concrete.
These schools are considered politically to be so right wing, that our modern day slightly right wing Tory party is too frightened to say a word in support of them.All  the main parties are much more interested in either their own position or imposing their own idealogy than they are in the education of our children.
So a society of everyone being treated exactly equal would imo be a living nightmare.

Albs, UK is a different kind of country that you cant simply apply socialist rules/laws/models because of its emperialistic history and historical-physical ties to whole world .. There are very strong rich classes there that even rule some parts of the world and have legs on every continent..

and also middle classes have a life standard  that even most of the poor countries rich classes hardly catch..

so any party claiming to be socialist in UK start the life with hands and feet tied up  :-/  and another problem is those people (mostly) already belong to high classes.. :-/

[cem_devecioglu]

We have been round in circles with this conversation before Cem, and I will finish with the same question I finished with last time. Why are most of the people in the socialist utopia of Cuba trying anything they can think of - including risking life and limb - to leave their homeland and reach the shores of that evil empire known as the U.S.A. and it is unheard of for any ordinary working people from the U.S.A. bothering to get on a plane and emigrating to Cuba??

as I answered before , they want more than their poor community can give them which is impossible and they make a big mistake that they think they will get this from another nation..

but do you know what they get , some of them die on the road, some of them work in most bad jobs for unacceptable salaries and some of them become slaves of intelligence or soldier for money