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[Varche]

Banjaxx is of course right.  Prison should be all about rehabiliation and remorse. Without those then the person is just going to be a serial offender and back inside.  I still think part of the punishment (which should help the offender realise the error of their ways) is a removal of rights that law abiding citizens enjoy.

Lizzie. I have just had a thought. As Britain isn't the only country in the EU that doesn't allow prisoners to vote (at least 7 other EU countries don't) just how did this issue materialise.

- Prompted by the current Uk government to give Cameron some much needed tough guy kudos?
Quite probably 
- Prompted by prisoners ? Don't think so
- Prompted by the European Court ? Don't think so as there are too many other countries in the same position.
- Prompted by a vested interest human rights group? possibly. 

Does anyone actually know where it is supposed to have originated from? 

[Banjax]

came from the Daily Mail thinking the sky's falling down again, probably 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Banjaxx is of course right.  Prison should be all about rehabiliation and remorse. Without those then the person is just going to be a serial offender and back inside.  I still think part of the punishment (which should help the offender realise the error of their ways) is a removal of rights that law abiding citizens enjoy.

Lizzie. I have just had a thought. As Britain isn't the only country in the EU that doesn't allow prisoners to vote (at least 7 other EU countries don't) just how did this issue materialise.

- Prompted by the current Uk government to give Cameron some much needed tough guy kudos?
Quite probably 
- Prompted by prisoners ? Don't think so
- Prompted by the European Court ? Don't think so as there are too many other countries in the same position.
- Prompted by a vested interest human rights group? possibly. 

Does anyone actually know where it is supposed to have originated from? 

What a very good question Varche

It would be very interesting to know!

[Banjax]

lizzie - i make you right when you say most prisoners neither care nor will bother voting, so if thats the case why not go along with it and save the taxpayers money from the pockets of well fed euro lawyers?

Cameron playing to the cameras as Varche says 

[Entwood]

Banjaxx is of course right.  Prison should be all about rehabiliation and remorse. Without those then the person is just going to be a serial offender and back inside.  I still think part of the punishment (which should help the offender realise the error of their ways) is a removal of rights that law abiding citizens enjoy.

Lizzie. I have just had a thought. As Britain isn't the only country in the EU that doesn't allow prisoners to vote (at least 7 other EU countries don't) just how did this issue materialise.

- Prompted by the current Uk government to give Cameron some much needed tough guy kudos?
Quite probably 
- Prompted by prisoners ? Don't think so
- Prompted by the European Court ? Don't think so as there are too many other countries in the same position.
- Prompted by a vested interest human rights group? possibly. 

Does anyone actually know where it is supposed to have originated from? 

I've nothing against rehabilitation and remorse .. but that should not be the excuse for molly-coddling and being "ultra-nice".

Some years back I had to visit the Miliatary Prison at Colchester .. as an Escort .. not an inmate .. thank god !!! Over lunch in the SNCO's Mess we got talking to an RSM and this subject came up .. his answer was exceedingly simple and I've always remembered it....

"The only rehab these guys need is the thought that if they reoffend they get to spend double the time with me. End Of."

His "wing" had the lowest reoffending rate of the whole unit.... single digit % I believe. Perhaps he had a point

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Banjaxx is of course right.  Prison should be all about rehabiliation and remorse. Without those then the person is just going to be a serial offender and back inside.  I still think part of the punishment (which should help the offender realise the error of their ways) is a removal of rights that law abiding citizens enjoy.

Lizzie. I have just had a thought. As Britain isn't the only country in the EU that doesn't allow prisoners to vote (at least 7 other EU countries don't) just how did this issue materialise.

- Prompted by the current Uk government to give Cameron some much needed tough guy kudos?
Quite probably 
- Prompted by prisoners ? Don't think so
- Prompted by the European Court ? Don't think so as there are too many other countries in the same position.
- Prompted by a vested interest human rights group? possibly. 

Does anyone actually know where it is supposed to have originated from? 

I've nothing against rehabilitation and remorse .. but that should not be the excuse for molly-coddling and being "ultra-nice".

Some years back I had to visit the Miliatary Prison at Colchester .. as an Escort .. not an inmate .. thank god !!! Over lunch in the SNCO's Mess we got talking to an RSM and this subject came up .. his answer was exceedingly simple and I've always remembered it....

"The only rehab these guys need is the thought that if they reoffend they get to spend double the time with me. End Of."

His "wing" had the lowest reoffending rate of the whole unit.... single digit % I believe. Perhaps he had a point

That is how it should be Entwood without question!

Our criminal system is far too soft, and I take the opportunity of making that viewpoint clear when assessing criminal cases with the CPS (South East), with senior Kent Police officers, lawyers, and other interested parties!  I cannot or must not say too much, but the softness goes way beyond offenders appearing in court!!

[Lizzie_Zoom]

lizzie - i make you right when you say most prisoners neither care nor will bother voting, so if that's the case why not go along with it and save the taxpayers money from the pockets of well fed euro lawyers?

Cameron playing to the cameras as Varche says 

But if we give in, yet again, then Brussels is gaining yet more power!  Why should we not stand up for British rights and viewpoints even if it does cost a few bob in legal costs.  All we need to do is fight our corner fiercely just once and maybe Brussels will back off!

On the point of Cameron, I think you are judging him unfairly.  Do not forget he was in favour of a referendum, until the Labour Government destroyed that as a legal possibility by signing the Lisbon Treaty!    DC really does mean business over Europe, in line with Conservative values and principles.  I do wish though Churchill was at the helm in his heyday!  Even in the context of modern times he would not let Brussels push the British around 8-) 8-) 8-)

[Terbs]

Banjaxx is of course right.  Prison should be all about rehabiliation and remorse. Without those then the person is just going to be a serial offender and back inside.  I still think part of the punishment (which should help the offender realise the error of their ways) is a removal of rights that law abiding citizens enjoy.

Lizzie. I have just had a thought. As Britain isn't the only country in the EU that doesn't allow prisoners to vote (at least 7 other EU countries don't) just how did this issue materialise.

- Prompted by the current Uk government to give Cameron some much needed tough guy kudos?
Quite probably 
- Prompted by prisoners ? Don't think so
- Prompted by the European Court ? Don't think so as there are too many other countries in the same position.
- Prompted by a vested interest human rights group? possibly. 

Does anyone actually know where it is supposed to have originated from? 

I've nothing against rehabilitation and remorse .. but that should not be the excuse for molly-coddling and being "ultra-nice".

Some years back I had to visit the Miliatary Prison at Colchester .. as an Escort .. not an inmate .. thank god !!! Over lunch in the SNCO's Mess we got talking to an RSM and this subject came up .. his answer was exceedingly simple and I've always remembered it....

"The only rehab these guys need is the thought that if they reoffend they get to spend double the time with me. End Of."

His "wing" had the lowest reoffending rate of the whole unit.... single digit % I believe. Perhaps he had a point

You are sooooo right....I saw a television documentary a few years ago about Colchester....good grief....no wonder their re-offending figures are almost non existant.
And those offenders that were interviewed did agree that whilst harsh, it made them see sense and they felt better for it

[albitz]

1. Iirc the case originated from one prisoner and his human rights lawyer going through the whole legal system until they got to Strasbourg. Compo driven.
2. The debate imo shouldnt be about the rights or wrongs of prisoners having the vote, but the much more important issue of whether or not the UK Parliament should have the right to make the decision on behalf of the UK electorate.
3.Colchester miltary correction facility - ask STMO, I think he may have more knowledge on the subject than the rest of us put together.

[Kevin Wood]

1. Iirc the case originated from one prisoner and his human rights lawyer going through the whole legal system until they got to Strasbourg. Compo driven.
2. The debate imo shouldnt be about the rights or wrongs of prisoners having the vote, but the much more important issue of whether or not the UK Parliament should have the right to make the decision on behalf of the UK electorate.
3.Colchester miltary correction facility - ask STMO, I think he may have more knowledge on the subject than the rest of us put together.

Amen to that. I'm sure we all realise that the outcome will make the root of break all difference to how the elections operate (although it raises an interesting question of whether a prisoner would vote in his home constituency or the one in which he is currently "resident").

The issue is, of course, whether we allow a bunch of unelected and corrupt cheese-eaters to veto the decisions of an elected chamber.

Kevin

[Banjax]

Banjaxx is of course right.  Prison should be all about rehabiliation and remorse. Without those then the person is just going to be a serial offender and back inside.  I still think part of the punishment (which should help the offender realise the error of their ways) is a removal of rights that law abiding citizens enjoy.

Lizzie. I have just had a thought. As Britain isn't the only country in the EU that doesn't allow prisoners to vote (at least 7 other EU countries don't) just how did this issue materialise.

- Prompted by the current Uk government to give Cameron some much needed tough guy kudos?
Quite probably 
- Prompted by prisoners ? Don't think so
- Prompted by the European Court ? Don't think so as there are too many other countries in the same position.
- Prompted by a vested interest human rights group? possibly. 

Does anyone actually know where it is supposed to have originated from? 

I've nothing against rehabilitation and remorse .. but that should not be the excuse for molly-coddling and being "ultra-nice".

Some years back I had to visit the Miliatary Prison at Colchester .. as an Escort .. not an inmate .. thank god !!! Over lunch in the SNCO's Mess we got talking to an RSM and this subject came up .. his answer was exceedingly simple and I've always remembered it....

"The only rehab these guys need is the thought that if they reoffend they get to spend double the time with me. End Of."

His "wing" had the lowest reoffending rate of the whole unit.... single digit % I believe. Perhaps he had a point

isn't the removal of freedom the punishment tho? its tempting to agree that tough prison regimes would solve the reoffending rate - i doubt thats the case tho - education, escape from poverty, counselling, solving alcohol and drug abuse issues - isn't that a safer bet? i dont want my car nicked or house broken into anymore than the next guy - which is why i'd rather we concentrated on a smarter way out of the cycle............we are truly dumb - it doesnt sound like anything a politician would be brave enough to do because they'd instantly be pilloried by the press  -but almost all studies tends to bear this out - we just wont do it because it doesn't play well with Joe Public, muppets the lot of us 

[albitz]

Well, it just so happens that Ken Clarke is pushing that agenda very hard Banjax, so I look forward to hearing you say your voting fot the "progressive" Tories at the next election.

[Banjax]

Well, it just so happens that Ken Clarke is pushing that agenda very hard Banjax, so I look forward to hearing you say your voting fot the "progressive" Tories at the next election.

i don't toe any party line, Albs - i just vote for the smartest, fairest and most trustworthy politician 

good for old Ken tho - always felt he'd be more comfortable on the left 

[Kevin Wood]

i don't toe any party line, Albs - i just vote for the smartest, fairest and most trustworthy politician 

I wish you luck in your quest.

kevin

[albitz]

Well, it just so happens that Ken Clarke is pushing that agenda very hard Banjax, so I look forward to hearing you say your voting fot the "progressive" Tories at the next election.

i don't toe any party line, Albs - i just vote for the smartest, fairest and most trustworthy politician 
So, you could possibly vote Tory if you agreed with more of their policies than the others ?!
good for old Ken tho - always felt he'd be more comfortable on the left 

[/highlight]

He couldnt possibly move over to the left, he is economically competent. .........daft as a brush in most other respects though.