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[Lizzie_Zoom]

North Africa  :-? remember Monty beat Rommel alone without any help..

Not strictly true Cem, the Americans were fighting in the West of North Africa with the British there and in the Eastern sector.  Yes Alamein was a British victory,.


thats it!


but Rommel's forces had been weakened by the American and British onslaught, coupled to the Allies crippling of the Afrika Korps. supply lines.

Sorry Cem, I have just re-read what I stated last night and realised I made a mistake in how I described the North Africa Campaign!!

I should have worded my reply better, as oof course El Alamein took place and was a great victory without American help, but I should have added that Montgomery then drove the forces of Rommel into Tunisia and by then, AFTER Alamein, the USA and British TORCH landings had taken place which led to the pure might of the Anglo-American forces overwhelming the remains of the Afrika Korp.  It was however a fact that although the American forces were real rookies, lacking battle experience, they made a VITAL difference in the destruction of the Panzer groups and the Afrika Korp in general.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Now back to the terrible situation in Japan................

A second nuclear plant exploded earlier, although again it seems that it was only due to hot high pressure steam being converted into hydrogen and mixing with oxygen that actual caused the blast

A third reactor, along with the other two, are still overheating though and apparently are going towartds melt down.  All under control the Japanese authorities are saying though, with very limited escapes of radiation.

That's good then!

[cem_devecioglu]

I have good plans about Japs.. I will invite them here to live    so we can buy electronics cheap ..

I hope the govt behave before the Russians as they also have similiar plans

[Banjax]

i think this is actually testament to how utterly safe a modernish (well 60's/70's), well designed, nuclear power plant is. If anything it should relax people who don't like the idea of nuclear energy and would far rather chinese and south american coal miners risked their lives day in and day out for their energy 

[Kevin Wood]

i think this is actually testament to how utterly safe a modernish (well 60's/70's), well designed, nuclear power plant is. If anything it should relax people who don't like the idea of nuclear energy and would far rather chinese and south american coal miners risked their lives day in and day out for their energy 

Yep, exactly.

What we are seeing is the media sensationalising these "explosions".

The fact is, we have a couple of reactors where the cooling systems have totally failed (one might ask if that were avoidable, but anyway..) and we are simply seeing them go through a couple of stages of the planned contingency for such situations, which includes venting of explosive mixtures of oxygen and hydrogen.

Even if the core of a modern reactor does "melt down", all it will trigger is a load of shock! horror! Daily Mail headlines. The containment vessel in which the reactor sits contains a bed of carbon into which the reactor will break up and fall. It will eventually cool to a safe temperature in the still-sealed containment vessel. It then requires an expensive and time consuming cleanup operation, but it won't be dangerous.

The media will doubtless compare it to Chernobyl but forget that that was caused by total incompetence in deliberately bypassing many of the safeguards built into the design.

Kevin

[Lizzie_Zoom]

i think this is actually testament to how utterly safe a modernish (well 60's/70's), well designed, nuclear power plant is. If anything it should relax people who don't like the idea of nuclear energy and would far rather chinese and south american coal miners risked their lives day in and day out for their energy 

Yep, exactly.

What we are seeing is the media sensationalising these "explosions".

The fact is, we have a couple of reactors where the cooling systems have totally failed (one might ask if that were avoidable, but anyway..) and we are simply seeing them go through a couple of stages of the planned contingency for such situations, which includes venting of explosive mixtures of oxygen and hydrogen.

Even if the core of a modern reactor does "melt down", all it will trigger is a load of shock! horror! Daily Mail headlines. The containment vessel in which the reactor sits contains a bed of carbon into which the reactor will break up and fall. It will eventually cool to a safe temperature in the still-sealed containment vessel. It then requires an expensive and time consuming cleanup operation, but it won't be dangerous.

The media will doubtless compare it to Chernobyl but forget that that was caused by total incompetence in deliberately bypassing many of the safeguards built into the design.

Kevin

That is all so right and true Kevin, and certainly on the BBC I am very pleased to note that they repeatedly are explaining why the explosions are taking place and why no damage has been done to the reactors. 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)

Yes, some reactors are still overheating but there is plenty of sea water that apparently is being pumped around them.  This is certainly no Chernobyl as you say

[Kevin Wood]

No doubt it will be just the ammunition required to ensure our own nuclear programme never gets rekindled, though, which means we'll be becoming increasingly reliant on non-existent renewables.

That diesel generator in my shed will be coming in handy one day, I expect. 

Kevin

[cem_devecioglu]

News: Germany is closing its old nuclear power plants..

and will check whats left ..

[Mysteryman]

News: Germany is closing its old nuclear power plants..

and will check whats left ..

Knee-jerk reaction.



As opposed to nuclear reaction.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

News: Germany is closing its old nuclear power plants..

and will check whats left ..

That is pure panic setting in Cem!

PR - Public Relations-  will click in all over I reckon now Cem

Nuclear power is still very safe in all most parts of the world, especially the modern versions soon (we hope!!) to be rolled out across the UK.  Nothing else will give us the power we all need

[aaronjb]

No doubt it will be just the ammunition required to ensure our own nuclear programme never gets rekindled, though, which means we'll be becoming increasingly reliant on non-existent renewables.

That diesel generator in my shed will be coming in handy one day, I expect. 

I'm pretty sure you're right - sooner or later, we'll be living with intermittent power and slipping back into the dark ages, all because people are too frightened to look forward instead of back.

At which point, I imagine, tech companies, banks and so on who rely on 100% uptime of services will poke off to other countries, and then we'll be stuffed.

[cem_devecioglu]

News: Germany is closing its old nuclear power plants..

and will check whats left ..

That is pure panic setting in Cem!

PR - Public Relations-  will click in all over I reckon now Cem

Nuclear power is still very safe in all most parts of the world, especially the modern versions soon (we hope!!) to be rolled out across the UK.  Nothing else will give us the power we all need

tell this to the radiation cooked Japanese and Russians..

and after some time to the Turks

as I said earlier, if you play with fire no matter what precaution you apply, your hands will burn..

[Kevin Wood]

No doubt it will be just the ammunition required to ensure our own nuclear programme never gets rekindled, though, which means we'll be becoming increasingly reliant on non-existent renewables.

That diesel generator in my shed will be coming in handy one day, I expect. 

I'm pretty sure you're right - sooner or later, we'll be living with intermittent power and slipping back into the dark ages, all because people are too frightened to look forward instead of back.

At which point, I imagine, tech companies, banks and so on who rely on 100% uptime of services will poke off to other countries, and then we'll be stuffed.

Precisely. Most of what's left of our economy now requires data centres that are up 24/7.

As our supply network stagnates that industry gets ever more easy to relocate overseas.

Kevin

[Lizzie_Zoom]

News: Germany is closing its old nuclear power plants..

and will check whats left ..

That is pure panic setting in Cem!

PR - Public Relations-  will click in all over I reckon now Cem

Nuclear power is still very safe in all most parts of the world, especially the modern versions soon (we hope!!) to be rolled out across the UK.  Nothing else will give us the power we all need

tell this to the radiation cooked Japanese and Russians..

and after some time to the Turks

as I said earlier, if you play with fire no matter what precaution you apply, your hands will burn..

Whatever man does, in the absence of the technology to avoid it, is a risk. For instance, coal mining, burning fossil fuels, building the infrastrucure, and producing the goods we have used in the past, and to date, have killed millions, with TB and emphysema taking many of those during and post the British industrial revolution.  Many are still dying around the world due to 'unsafe' industrial processes across a whole range of industries. 

In comparison, with the exception of the terribly managed Chernobyl situation, how many have been killed by nuclear power generation in all Western countries put together?  The current Japanese situation is worrying, but the radiation leaks so far have been short term, relatively mild, and should not cause much in long term effects, according to the experts commenting so far.  Yes the situation could deteriorate, and the Japanese could pay a horrible price for building one big atomic plant on a fault line, but it does not mean ALL nuclear power plants around the world are unsafe. 

No, nuclear power if the plants are constructed to modern standards, in geographically sound areas, maintained to the highest standards, and monitored properly by the world's nuclear agencies, is perfectly safe, and a lot safer, along with being highly efficient, compared to any other generating medium.

If we want the power, we need nuclear power generation

[albitz]

No point in us curtailling our nuclear programme in any case, as afaik northern France has nuclear power stations all over the place, and if they went up we would suffer more than people in Southern France unless the wind was almost permanently blowing the fallout in the opposite direction.
Nuclear is the only realistic option for the future. Unfortunately we currently have a mentalist (Chris Huhne) for an energy secretary, who stated publicly a couple of years ago that nuclear is evil.
We can only hope that power concentrates his mind (if he has one) and he starts to talk more sense.