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[I_want_an_Omega]

Sack the lot of them. And the other civil servants.  Draft in a new mob of civil servants who are in touch with the real world 

Attitudes like this are truly, truly depressing.

Yes, sack every one of us who provide you lot with public services. What a clever thing to say. You would be the absolute first in line complaining about your right to health / education / having your bin collected should these services be slaughtered in that manner. Think about what you say.

Is anyone here willing to claim that the following is fair:

We have to pay more into a pension scheme (a day's salary out of a month), for longer (until we're 68), and we will get nothing back.

This is NOT a pension reform. It's a straight forward pay cut. Should I also mention that I stand to get virtually no payrise at all for the next two years, which, on top of a 3.5% pay cut from the pension increase, is a further 10% with inflation as it is?

Is a 13.5% paycut fair for me and people like me? I'm certainly not a high earner.

The public sector, civil servants, and nobody on this forum caused the recession, unless you were taking monumental risks in the financial sector. Why should ANY OF US be prepared to pay for it?

It's absolutely ridiculous that people on here are HAPPY that we are apparently being "brought down" to the "real world".

What a fantastic race to the bottom. Why can't private sector pensions be brought UP to MEET the so-called "gold-plated" standard that we supposedly have.

Fun fact: Your average Civil Service pension scheme is roughly £5,000.

Fun fact: The only people who's pension schemes are protected in the public sector are those who have MP after their names.

Fun fact: It is THESE people who have gold-plated pensions.

I personally stand to lose well over £100,000 over a 20 year retirement with the proposed changes. Shall we celebrate the fact that my generation of pensioners will live in poverty, having worked harder, for longer?

You damn well better believe we're fighting this, and we have every bloody right to do so.

I really can't see how a final salary scheme for some with a decent amount of service behind them would pay out so little. I heard this figure on the radio this morning also and would really like to see a breakdown of how it was calculated.

I'd assumed that a full career in public service would pay about 50% of final salary plus a lump sum.

Can someone clarify please.

Thanks

[Martin_1962]

If you support striking think on this

Thanks all....


Just so you know, thats my employer
(Im in a technical computing role, no management at all)

Because, and purely because I am not in a stategic location, I am in the process of being made redundant, and will likely be out of work within 2 months.
My alternative is to apply for a job, 100 miles from here, where I will be expected to be on a daily basis, travelling in my own time, paying my own costs....I cannot afford that.  would be about 2500 miles a month!  Relocation is not an option for me.

(FYI that 15000 is accurate, had an email from Antonio myself this morning)

[albitz]

According to this report I pay more towards public sector pensions than I do towards my own pension. Anyone want to explain to me why thats fair and just ?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1078667/Revealed-Private-workers-pay-gold-plated-pensions-public-sector-workers-own.html

Some objective facts on the issue, for those who are interested.
http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/Public-Vs-Private-Who-Gets-skynews-3684708969.html?x=0

[Banjax]

Yep. ......and the pro stikers bias on Daybreak this morning had to be heard to be believed. Adrian Chiles was talking about how he as a teenager would consider his teachers true heroes for going on strike etc etc......it was rather shockin...the media are certainly very biased.

its the slowly dawning realisation that you're wrong and most people in Britain believe in fairplay that is truly entertaining Albs, you see as in all things we go too far one way - the decimation of the unions, the villification and mockery of the working class, the greed corruption and sheer chutzpah of the monied "elite"....goes to far and its just about reached its nadir like a ball on a piece of elastic, now it's going to snap back and travel too far the other way.....that'll scare you Albs - i'd duck if i were you, that balls about to go whizzing past you like a Murray return 

[albitz]

Youve posted some an awful lot of unintelligible drivel in the past, but I think that one might just take first prize.
Take the time to read the links in my previous post and then get back to me.

[El33t]

Albs, a smallish breakdown / explanation of civil service pensions.

Also, Greece's economy (and Irelands) are both knackered because of massive public spending cuts.

I'm sorry that "clowns" like me are fighting to keep providing the services you use (and most likely take for granted), and are also fighting for fair pensions for everyone, and fair pay for everyone.

Well, I'm not sorry at all; it annoys me slightly that someone like you may reap the benefits should we be successful, but that's the way it goes if you're a union rep!

[albitz]

Albs, a smallish breakdown / explanation of civil service pensions.

Also, Greece's economy (and Irelands) are both knackered because of massive public spending cuts.

I'm sorry that "clowns" like me are fighting to keep providing the services you use (and most likely take for granted), and are also fighting for fair pensions for everyone, and fair pay for everyone.

Well, I'm not sorry at all; it annoys me slightly that someone like you may reap the benefits should we be successful, but that's the way it goes if you're a union rep!

Apologies - I wasnt referring to you as a clown (I know nothing about you) I was reffering to Banjax - because he really is one.
The greek and Irish economies are not in a mess because of public spending cuts. They are in a mess because for many years they have been spending money they havent earned and dont have.
I would like to ask you a question though if I may. If the report in the link I posted is true - that I contribute more to your pension than I do to my own - do you think thats ok/fair/just/reasonable ?
I dont want anyone to fight for me, Im capable of fighting my own battles. Dont need someone like Bob crowbar on his £100,000+ p.a. to tell me he is going to lead me out of my misery to a socialist utopia.

[Nickbat]

Albs, a smallish breakdown / explanation of civil service pensions.

Also, Greece's economy (and Irelands) are both knackered because of massive public spending cuts.

I'm sorry that "clowns" like me are fighting to keep providing the services you use (and most likely take for granted), and are also fighting for fair pensions for everyone, and fair pay for everyone.

Well, I'm not sorry at all; it annoys me slightly that someone like you may reap the benefits should we be successful, but that's the way it goes if you're a union rep!

I wasn't going to post on this thread, but I couldn't let this claim pass without comment.

The Greek economy has tanked for a variety of reasons, but "massive spending cuts" is certainly not one of them.

"Greece is highly indebted and lost about 25 percent of its competitiveness since Euro adoption. At the end of 2009, the general public deficit reached 13.6 percent of GDP and public debt had increased to 115 percent of GDP. Even with the lower deficits envisaged under the program, the debt as share of GDP will continue to peak at almost 150 percent of GDP in 2013 before declining thereafter.

In past years, Greece’s public sector spending grew, while revenue fell. Then the global recession hit and economic activity slowed and unemployment rose. This exacerbated the fiscal situation."

Source: IMF
http://www.imf.org/external/np/exr/faq/greecefaqs.htm

 

[STMO123]

According to this report I pay more towards public sector pensions than I do towards my own pension. Anyone want to explain to me why thats fair and just ?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1078667/Revealed-Private-workers-pay-gold-plated-pensions-public-sector-workers-own.html

Some objective facts on the issue, for those who are interested.
http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/Public-Vs-Private-Who-Gets-skynews-3684708969.html?x=0

From the second of those reports:

Lord Hutton's pension report noted that high-flying civil servants in some cases saw up to double the return from their pensions contributions than those on lower rungs - distorting the average.

[Banjax]

I'd just like to point out that I don't really think Albs or Nickbat are idiots, far from it - that was me posting first and thinking later - sorry for that

[albitz]

According to this report I pay more towards public sector pensions than I do towards my own pension. Anyone want to explain to me why thats fair and just ?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1078667/Revealed-Private-workers-pay-gold-plated-pensions-public-sector-workers-own.html

Some objective facts on the issue, for those who are interested.
http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/Public-Vs-Private-Who-Gets-skynews-3684708969.html?x=0

From the second of those reports:

Lord Hutton's pension report noted that high-flying civil servants in some cases saw up to double the return from their pensions contributions than those on lower rungs - distorting the average.

Im sure the situation is the same in the private sector Steve.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Given that the public sector has recieved excellent pay increases over the last 12 years and still has a good pension setup (and it IS very good) which we can not afford, then something has to change.

I have to say, I dont see why the retirement age is not inline with the general populus.

At the end of the day, if things stay as they are there is only one real option to raise the cash to pay these excellent pensions.....higher taxes.

And as I dont feel I get value for money from education adn certainly not the health service at the moment (due to it being poorly organised and inefficient) then I am not happy to pay any more.

What does get me is all the teacers I keep seeing on TV saying 'its hard' and 'its really difficult' and a 'challenging job'. Yes, like mine and many millions of others isnt?

It also gets my goat when they say 'we are having a pay freeze'....well be thankful as many have had pay cuts, reduced working hours, job losses and pay freezes that have lasted many years (myself included who had 4 pay rises in the last 10 years).

You have but one thing that you have ultimate control over and CAN do things about in this life......your career. If you dont like it, get out  .

[Varche]

As usual everyone has missed the point.

If Britain is the rich country we are led to believe then surely decent pensions should be top of the priorities. Lets get both the public and private sector pensions up to a decent level.

How? Well a cut out waste drive in every industry(public or private) would be a good start, improved efficiency all around, less (zero) involvement in wars except if Nato ask for a contribution, scrap new aircarft carriers, tax on "Britains got Talent", self sufficient prisons. There is a long long list.

[Martin_1962]

Hmm seems some private school (ie paid by the school not the government) teachers have been striking.

What for?

Is this actually legal?

They are depriving a school of their work for an argument not to do with them.

[tigers_gonads]

I was in town to do some shopping with the missus yesterday afternoon 

Popped into the pub for a couple of beers about 2 pm

Stood at the bar was about 20 of these strikers throwing beer down there neck like there was no tomorrow 

After having to push between these tinkers to get to the bar for the 3rd time, one of them asked me if I supported there cause. So I asked them if there so skint, why are they banging pints down there neck ........... I don't think they where impresed 
One of them got a bit arsey and started bleating on about having to put more money into there pension to which I sugested that they get a part time job during the 13 weeks holiday they get ............ He wasn't impresed and stormed out 5 minutes later with his chums 

The manager bought me and the missus a pint and I got a bollo*king of the missus and told that it was the last time I go shopping with her 

Result