Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Steve 1564]

.... My guess is your both right... There is an element of "ignore it and it might go away" and indeed in some cases it does..... whatever the outcome in the grand scheme of things it will probably end up costing me somthing, beit a few sleepless nights or £60 & 3 points, you really cant beat the system in the long run, but a few small wins along the way help us to morally justify the defeats... the whole point of this post is to illistrate that the motorist is just another revenue stream - but the we allready know that dont we

[05omegav6]

theres alot to be said for driving an ex plod car with a calibrated speedo :-/
i got mugged a couple of years ago by a safety partnership camera van,(an oxymoron if ever there was). was doing 37 in a 30 in a line of traffic. dhl driver in front didn't even brake barsteward van drivers. i didnt see the camera monkey til i was on top of it. said monkey was just standing there, smug look on his face shrugging at every car that went past
sussex police use alot of unmarked audis of varying shapes and sizes and drive them like complete superstars, tailgating cars that are perhaps doing 2 mph over the limit and pushing them over the limit. as soon as you get to posted limit + 15% on come the lights and thats game over. slowing to 80% of the limit really, really p*sses them off coz all they can do is tug you to make sure that everything is ok.

[Dishevelled Den]

.... My guess is your both right... There is an element of "ignore it and it might go away" and indeed in some cases it does..... whatever the outcome in the grand scheme of things it will probably end up costing me somthing, beit a few sleepless nights or £60 & 3 points, you really cant beat the system in the long run, but a few small wins along the way help us to morally justify the defeats... the whole point of this post is to illistrate that the motorist is just another revenue stream - but the we allready know that dont we

illistrate that the motorist is just another revenue stream

I quite agree Steve but would suggest that this is across the 'official' board, not only from a police perspective.


I've said many times that the current tendency for Chief Officers to cosy up to the political line would have unintended consequences and incidents such as this merely illustrate my concern.

My uniform colleagues have made a rod for their own backs in many cases and have allowed the political agenda - particularly that espoused by the last government - to occupy a place in day to day policing where it has no right to be.


Whatever the minutiae of the argument concerning how the public view the methods used by the police to detect alleged offences we still require some form of sanction on those who choose to ignore the regulations, otherwise it would become a free for all on the roads.

In my view this sanction should be fairly (and justifiably) applied as a result of sensible interpretation of the regulations by the police, in the interests of road safety and the integrity of the law - not because it's an easy detection to make the quota up or because local/central government considers the fines from such detections to be a justifiable source of revenue.

In my early uniform career I've picked up too many bodies from the scenes of collisions, watched too many times as their broken remains were examined in minute detail on the slab of an impersonal mortuary and had the distressing duty to break the news to many people that their loved one/s had ceased to exist.

Excess speed, inattention to road conditions and general carelessness all conspire to cause difficulty - especially when they are exhibited at the wrong time and in the wrong place.

[Steve 1564]

Hi Zulu

I couldn't agree more - however untill they devolop a driving like a T*at camera there will still be accidents and deaths caused by people who (regardless of speed) still think that the tin box there sitting in makes them invincible.
I wonder what the real statistics are ? Speed is ok - the police prove that everytime they switch on the B&T's it's what you do with it that counts !  ok somtimes they mess up but not very often & usually the media have a field day with it, but the 17yr old who is wheel spinning around maccy d's carpark & knocks over a bollard just is'nt that newsworthy !...

Quote - "Guns dont kill people.... I do"


As for cameras - there have been 2 rear enders at a cam near me - guy in front brakes - guy behind is busy eating a burger, chatting on the phone, looking for a cd ect - thump...

- The driving test should be tougher & incoporate real time motorway driving - Maybe a 2 or 3 stage test + a realistic theory test (Std - Motorway & advance) with maybe insurance discounts for "Better" drivers ?

I'm not condoning speeding - But how many times have you been closing on a lorry in lane 1 and the guy in the merc just off your rear quarter just sits there ignoring your indicator (when lane 3 is empty?) - people just need to look & think ahead....

(having said all that I still didnt see the camera !)

[Mr Trifle]

.... My guess is your both right... There is an element of "ignore it and it might go away" and indeed in some cases it does..... whatever the outcome in the grand scheme of things it will probably end up costing me something, beit a few sleepless nights or £60 & 3 points, you really cant beat the system in the long run, but a few small wins along the way help us to morally justify the defeats... the whole point of this post is to illistrate that the motorist is just another revenue stream - but the we allready know that dont we

Well not really...the camera owners will only make money from us by us ignoring the posted speed limit.

I always make it a point too drive bang on the speed limit assuming its safe too so.

Actually thats cobblers ive been down the A11 at three figures...only ive been lucky.

But as i said if we keep too the speed limit then we generate no revenue for them its only when we play Russian roulette with camera"s we sometimes end up blowing our brains out.

[Steve 1564]

IT WAS 80mph.... Playing russian roulette with a rubberband gun !!!

[fudgee]

Thanks for your considered reply Fudgee but I would suggest that to speed because everyone else is doing it isn't reasonable at all.

Similarly to advise someone to ignore official correspondence because others have done so remains questionable in my view.
Your view of certain elements of the police force is obvious from your piece, and I find this regrettable, but traffic regulations are there for a reason.  If you choose to ignore them then that's a matter for you but to advise others to do so is misconceived, in my view.
[/quote]
Am I missing something here?  :-? :-? :-?

I never advised anybody to ignore official correspondence, I re-read both my posts to double check I did'nt.
In my first post I said to drag it out for as long as you can and see who gets bored first, as I know for a cast iron fact that there is a time limit on speeding tickets that the police have to prosecute you before the offence becomes invalid.

In my second post I commented on people who have questioned their tickets and kicked up a fuss about them and gone on to get away with it.

How on earth is that 'IGNORING' them

Whenever your accused of something guilty or not, if the punishment for that offence is obviously too harsh then you should never just accept it and take it lying down.

Stand up for yourself and fight back. 

Remember we are living in a country where it is possible to rape young children on numerous occasions over a long period of time............and when found guilty serve less time in prison then somebody who's been found guilty of TAX EVASION!!!!!!!!!!    

IT'S REVOLTING!!!!!..............the goverment only care about money, which is why us motorists are persecuted worse then common thieves.

And that is exactly why you get coppers hiding behind trees with their pathetic little toys.....and camera vans parked up around blind bends.
I work hard and pay my taxes and I want police officers walking the beat looking out for scumbag drug dealers.
I want more police officers patroling trouble hot spots, clamping down on uneducated in-bred hoodies who plauge communities and make people's lives a miserey.

We never get that though do we and why not?....well according to the idiots at westminster and the police it's because of a lack of manpower.
The police are just too streched and don't have the resources apparantly.

Well maybe if they did'nt assign such a large chunk of their resources and budget to persecuting motorists with their pathetic speed traps and poncey little road blocks, then maybe the elderly couple on the estate would be able to tell the in-breds to stop hanging around outside their house causing trouble without fear of having their windows smashed in!!!

Go on traffic coppers.....get out of your luxurious unmarked £40,000 BMW'S and go and arrest some crack heads.
I'm sure you already do now and again when you pull them over in your beemer [or are they in the Lexus today?] .
But I bet if you started walking the streets where the real crime takes place instead of cruising the motorways handing out fines..........you would arrest a hell of a lot more!!!!!!!!!

No chance whatsoever of that happening though is there.
Just think, if the police did'nt set up their speed traps and dish out all of those fines.......where would the money come from to decorate the goverment official's houses with the £50 a roll wallpaper, and how on earth would the courts manage to hand out huge sums of compensation to criminals who have had their human rights violated by being locked up.
Goodness only knows 

[Dishevelled Den]

 Re: Speeding M4 Welsh Wales Scamera Unit
Reply #21 - Today at 17:58

[/quote]

Two times I ignored it and did'nt hear any more about it.

Coupled with;

Stretch it out and see who gets bored first, you or the police, and if you get past that magic marker then your laughing

The combination of the two suggests to me that you're inviting others to follow your lead.


Irrespective of the above I fear that there's little I could say to change your mind on the subject, which is unfortunate - however I would make some points.

Remember we are living in a country where it is possible to rape young children on numerous occasions over a long period of time............and when found guilty serve less time in prison then somebody who's been found guilty of TAX EVASION

I can understand your point, however it's one better addressed to your MP than a traffic police officer.

And that is exactly why you get coppers hiding behind trees with their pathetic little toys.....and camera vans parked up around blind bends.

I don't really know what to say to this Fudgee other than would you prefer the police to ignore motorists who drive at excess speed, while being inattentive to their surroundings and generally careless as to how their behaviour might well affect the safety of others?

Road traffic collisions are responsible for much more the obvious injury and death.  The resulting requirement for police/fire and ambulance personnel to attend these incidents costs money along with man/person power and resources.  It costs the NHS to treat the victims, and amongst other things it pushes insurance premiums up.

Getting away from the fiscal nature of my comments it also costs the victims (and families) - it costs them plenty in terms of physical and emotional trauma and in many cases it costs them their life.

I want more police officers patroling trouble hot spots, clamping down on uneducated in-bred hoodies who plauge communities and make people's lives a miserey

Very reasonable expectations Fudgee but this cannot be done by ignoring those on the road who disregard the safety of others by their manner of driving.  The number of car journeys made every hour of the day that may end up requiring police attention could well eclipse the number of other offenders you mention.  This simply can’t be ignored.

Well maybe if they did'nt assign such a large chunk of their resources and budget to persecuting motorists with their pathetic speed traps and poncey little road blocks,

I think you views on this are jaundiced and there’s little I could realistically say to counter this sensibly.

But I bet if you started walking the streets where the real crime takes place instead of cruising the motorways handing out fines..........you would arrest a hell of a lot more

You should not forget Fudgee that as we are such a mobile society now many more crimes are being committed by criminals using vehicles during the course of them, what better way to apprehend criminals in these circumstances is there by being out and about policing the road network?

No chance whatsoever of that happening though is there.
Just think, if the police did'nt set up their speed traps and dish out all of those fines.......where would the money come from to decorate the goverment official's houses with the £50 a roll wallpaper, and how on earth would the courts manage to hand out huge sums of compensation to criminals who have had their human rights violated by being locked up.

I think that’s a bit of a stretch Fudgee, and again something better addressed to your MP than a police officer.

While you’ve made some interesting (and valid) points it’s unrealistic to expect police officers to ignore motoring offences many of which not only hold the potential for ending in tragedy but also lead to the apprehension of offenders involved in crimes other than those of the motoring variety.

My message remains simple – why use excess speed at all, is your journey so important to demand it and finally, do you personally feel that the rules should not apply to you and other like minded people?

[Steve 1564]

It would seem I've started somthing here - 

Peter Tobin... the most recent case (of which i ws more than involved) cost well in excess of £2m - the guy was banged to rights and allready in prison (at at cost of >£500 /wk) for similar crimes -
Therefore would it not be cheaper to hit him with a brick ? (B&Q have an offer on block paving 49p ea!)
And use the money saved on paying a few more coppers salary's - then put pay to all the bleeding heart libral stuff they have to deal with & let em go catch some real scum

Im not saying all coppers should be like Gene Hunt but a few scumbags roughed up would soon put the message out... And while were on the subject - school teachers should be allowed to slap kids ! there i said it, 

..... "Not like it was in my day... clip ya round the ear they would.... never did me any harm.... fiddling small change... and the print in the paper is smaller, no respect - If there was a war..... "   
Admin... should we move this ?

[Steve 1564]

You should not forget Fudgee that as we are such a mobile society now many more crimes are being committed by criminals using vehicles during the course of them, what better way to apprehend criminals in these circumstances is there by being out and about policing the road network?

Im sure as eggs is eggs I wouldn't have been speeding if the rear of the car was packed with 235kg of Bolivian marching powder !!

[Dishevelled Den]

You should not forget Fudgee that as we are such a mobile society now many more crimes are being committed by criminals using vehicles during the course of them, what better way to apprehend criminals in these circumstances is there by being out and about policing the road network?

Im sure as eggs is eggs I wouldn't have been speeding if the rear of the car was packed with 235kg of Bolivian marching powder !!

If only it were that simple Steve - although I wasn't necessarily alluding to speeding in that point:)

[Dishevelled Den]

It would seem I've started somthing here - 

Peter Tobin... the most recent case (of which i ws more than involved) cost well in excess of £2m - the guy was banged to rights and allready in prison (at at cost of >£500 /wk) for similar crimes -
Therefore would it not be cheaper to hit him with a brick ? (B&Q have an offer on block paving 49p ea!)
And use the money saved on paying a few more coppers salary's - then put pay to all the bleeding heart libral stuff they have to deal with & let em go catch some real scum

Im not saying all coppers should be like Gene Hunt but a few scumbags roughed up would soon put the message out... And while were on the subject - school teachers should be allowed to slap kids ! there i said it, 

..... "Not like it was in my day... clip ya round the ear they would.... never did me any harm.... fiddling small change... and the print in the paper is smaller, no respect - If there was a war..... "   
Admin... should we move this ?

That's a whole other story Steve.  I partnered Gene Hunt types in the mid 70's to mid 80's before moving to another department so am very familiar with that style of policing.

Many great successes were celebrated as a result but there were also many disasters.  Don't forget that Divisional CID officers in the Met as well as in many the regions during this period lost credibility by straying too far off the reservation and thinking that the ends justified the means..

C8 (as it was) was badly hit by these scandals.

Police officers should never forget that they serve the public and, whilst they carry the Sovereigns Warrant, this does not give them carte blanche to skew the rules to the detriment of the law and infringe the rights of those they seek to have dealings with.

There is always room for police officers to move with audacity and imagination when seeking to apprehend wrong doers but that effort is devalued if the basic tenets of the law are cast aside in the name of expedience.

In relation to Tobin (if this is where you were going) capital punishment is more about assuaging the emotions of the victims of high crimes and giving them closure - little to do with deterrent sadly.  As a deterrent it doesn't really work apart from what I’ve said previously, and its obvious use in absolving the state from the expense of continued imprisonment for the offender.

 As can be seen from the crime rate for qualifying offences being maintained in the USA, Russia, and China etc., and even in Islamic states where Sharia Law is practiced the deterrent factor doesn’t live up to the sum of its parts.

There’s nothing to beat properly motivated professional police officers who know their manor and who are determined to do their best for the community they serve and for the integrity of the law.

In the absence of this, when the law is disregarded by those sworn to uphold it and where members of the public shed personal responsibility by doing as they please, then we descend into anarchy.

As I have served in a place where anarchy ruled every day for a long time - I don’t recommend the experience.

[hotel21]

With respect to the previous postings of Zulu and Steve I would submit that the tale of Peter Tobin is very far from finished.

If he were topped, by fair means or foul, then there would be no possibility of proof of end of several nearest and dearest from years gone.  Better to let him sweat, if he does such a thing, pending yet another series of court appeareances and findings of guilt.  Cue Bible John series, for example.

As to the OP and speeding.  Why?  If thats the limit there, don't do exceed it.  If you do and get captured, take the pain.  If your old enough to attempt it, your old enough to accept its conclusions....

[fudgee]

I love Gene Hunt...one of my heros   

About as much of a chance of finding a copper like that in a motorway patrol car as there is of Stevie Wonder joining the Red Arrows!!

I don't know what it is with traffic cops.........they are just the biggest bunch of robotic like jobsworths walking the face of the earth.
Your normal bobby on the beat is different, every time i've dealt with one of them they have allways seemed like really nice blokes who are easy to talk to.
Allways approachable and interested in what you have to say.

But traffic cops....its like they come from a completly different planet to the rest of them 

Even when your watching a cop show on the telly like that Road wars programme, you can see the difference between them and the other coppers.

They really have all got the compassion of Adolf Hitler and the personality of Mr Bean.

[Steve 1564]

Hi Hotel...

Yeah I guess so, But still 80mph !!! - mind you it would seem that the allowance is 79... (limit + 10% + 2 ) I guess I'm just reeling from the fact that i could have been doing 95 and still be in the same boat 

As for the other issues, I really fear for the future of this country, It would seem that common sence has been replaced with  litigate paranoia - and as for free speech - did we really ever have it in the first place ? I really don't know what the solution would be but this ain't it thats for sure....

As a side note I couldn't help sniggering at the fact that Nick Griffin (head of the Nazi BNP) had his invitation to the Queens garden party revoked - I mean how bad is that when Prince Phillip dosn't want somone that right wing at his house !