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[amigov6]

I think there is/was a defence along the lines of automatic bodily responses....automoton responses(sp)

i.e. you had a sneezing fit (hay fever sufferer) and it would be safer to stop rather than drive with your eyes shut. As soon as your sneezing fit ended you made your way clear off the junction

Otherwise I cant see how you can argue that you enetered a box junction without room on the other side. The only other defense is turning right and your progress is only blocked by on coming traffic

I know it sucks but best of luck

>:(I've got althziemers so have no control over popping a wheelie on my Bandit due to an uncontrollably shaky right hand does'nt work either !!!

[amigov6]

Hi

I am a magistrate. I can tell you that you will not win this appeal quite simply because of the fact that you must not ENTER any box junction unless your exit is clear. Your defence that the van suddenly stopped only goes to reinforce the fact that you entered this box without ensuring your path through was clear.

The highway code is absolutely clear on the rules regarding box junctions and your only cause for appeal would be if your vehicle broke down with a sudden and catastrophic result, disabling your vehicle immediatley and rendering it immobile. As you drive a Vauxhall Omega, this would not be acceptable defence as the model of car is doomed to this very event at somepoint.

Appeal if you wish, but you are wasting your time.

I hope this is of some help to you.

love
The very honourable Angela Rippemoff, QC.

:DDing Dong, you can pass judgement on me anytime m'lady!!!

[amigov6]

Got it today, the fine that is from Transport for London £120 or 50% if paid within 14 days. This was last Tuesday when i got stuck in the box junction in peckham on my way up to Milton Keynes. Now I know the rules for box junctions but when I entered the box junction the traffic was moving, then subsequently stopped, the vehicles in front of me was a van and in front of that a truck, the van is in the box junction too (2 lanes), in the pics I am stuck at 10:01:46 and in the other pic I have moved from the left hand lane into the right hand side lane out of the box junction at 10:02:06 e.g., when the traffic had started to move again, now this is well under 20 seconds stuck in the box junction, as the other pic shows me in the other lane well past the box junction.

Now unless they want to start putting up stop signs at box junctions in this case they are well out of order

:(Sorry Mick you're gonna hate me but cannot enter yellow hatchings in moving traffic hoping there'll e room on the other side when the traffic stops. It's a p*** off cos if you leave a gap some stroker dives in from a left turn and you can wait all day, try it with a 45ft trailer behind you, cars dive in front of you from the right hand lane & if you stuck to the law you'd be sat there all day but much as i admire your fight you wo'nt win in court & may incur costs.
        We all do it but if we get caught it's tough titty!!! Ido know how rather frustrating it is but there you go.
      Many years ago on my hgv test i got a "minor" for hesitation on a 5 way roundabout, but if i'd pulled out too early i'd have got a major(failure) for intimidating other road users.
       It's all very well people making the rules up in an office & there is a point to them but theory often differs to practice. Sympathies, Guy.

[MikeDundee]

Hi

I am a magistrate. I can tell you that you will not win this appeal quite simply because of the fact that you must not ENTER any box junction unless your exit is clear. Your defence that the van suddenly stopped only goes to reinforce the fact that you entered this box without ensuring your path through was clear.

The highway code is absolutely clear on the rules regarding box junctions and your only cause for appeal would be if your vehicle broke down with a sudden and catastrophic result, disabling your vehicle immediatley and rendering it immobile. As you drive a Vauxhall Omega, this would not be acceptable defence as the model of car is doomed to this very event at somepoint.

Appeal if you wish, but you are wasting your time.

I hope this is of some help to you.

love
The very honourable Angela Rippemoff, QC.

Thanks for the advice honourable RMcB, I am sure the will state the highway code in their response. Being a QC there must be some case law on this surely?

[MikeDundee]

Hi

I am a magistrate. I can tell you that you will not win this appeal quite simply because of the fact that you must not ENTER any box junction unless your exit is clear. Your defence that the van suddenly stopped only goes to reinforce the fact that you entered this box without ensuring your path through was clear.

The highway code is absolutely clear on the rules regarding box junctions and your only cause for appeal would be if your vehicle broke down with a sudden and catastrophic result, disabling your vehicle immediatley and rendering it immobile. As you drive a Vauxhall Omega, this would not be acceptable defence as the model of car is doomed to this very event at somepoint.

Appeal if you wish, but you are wasting your time.

I hope this is of some help to you.

love
The very honourable Angela Rippemoff, QC.

Sounds like your crank sensor went then Mike.  Known fault on an Omega  

Yeah but is that likey to start working within 20 seconds

[STMO123]

Pay the £60 Mike, and dont be paranoid, it's nothing personal. Every minute of every day, someone, somewhere is after your dosh.

[MikeDundee]

Pay the £60 Mike, and dont be paranoid, it's nothing personal. Every minute of every day, someone, somewhere is after your dosh.

Looks like I may just have too, annoying thing is no notice of cameras or fines, not like you know you get fines for the bus lanes and there are signs for them etc.., Best one is someone from work going home thursday night spotted a camera van parked up on double yellows just before a box junction to tkae pics of offending cars, she went hom e to get her camera to take a pic, but when she got back it was gone

[Dave-C]

Got it today, the fine that is from Transport for London £120 or 50% if paid within 14 days. This was last Tuesday when i got stuck in the box junction in peckham on my way up to Milton Keynes. Now I know the rules for box junctions but when I entered the box junction the traffic was moving, then subsequently stopped, the vehicles in front of me was a van and in front of that a truck, the van is in the box junction too (2 lanes), in the pics I am stuck at 10:01:46 and in the other pic I have moved from the left hand lane into the right hand side lane out of the box junction at 10:02:06 e.g., when the traffic had started to move again, now this is well under 20 seconds stuck in the box junction, as the other pic shows me in the other lane well past the box junction.

Now unless they want to start putting up stop signs at box junctions in this case they are well out of order

These boxes can cause probs but unfortunatly the pillocks that design them and other traffic stoppers BUS LANES, sit in offices all day thinking on how to bring city centres to a halt, Newport is not a large city but all these stupid 3 lane roundabouts that go into 2 lanes, bus lanes that are hardly used by buses, speed ramps that are made to rip off low cars exhaust, traffic lights on roundabouts have caused a grid lock at peak times, before all these mods there was NEVER a grid lock, it aint the amount of cars, its all the traffic calming systems and knobheads that think of them.

Sorry to here about your fine mate.

 

Don't start me on bstard BUS LANES..

[Darth Loo-knee]

Got it today, the fine that is from Transport for London £120 or 50% if paid within 14 days. This was last Tuesday when i got stuck in the box junction in peckham on my way up to Milton Keynes. Now I know the rules for box junctions but when I entered the box junction the traffic was moving, then subsequently stopped, the vehicles in front of me was a van and in front of that a truck, the van is in the box junction too (2 lanes), in the pics I am stuck at 10:01:46 and in the other pic I have moved from the left hand lane into the right hand side lane out of the box junction at 10:02:06 e.g., when the traffic had started to move again, now this is well under 20 seconds stuck in the box junction, as the other pic shows me in the other lane well past the box junction.

Now unless they want to start putting up stop signs at box junctions in this case they are well out of order

These boxes can cause probs but unfortunatly the pillocks that design them and other traffic stoppers BUS LANES, sit in offices all day thinking on how to bring city centres to a halt, Newport is not a large city but all these stupid 3 lane roundabouts that go into 2 lanes, bus lanes that are hardly used by buses, speed ramps that are made to rip off low cars exhaust, traffic lights on roundabouts have caused a grid lock at peak times, before all these mods there was NEVER a grid lock, it aint the amount of cars, its all the traffic calming systems and knobheads that think of them.

Sorry to here about your fine mate.

 

Don't start me on bstard BUS LANES..[/quote]

Which one the one at Burslem lights? I had a bus driver pointing a digital camera at me under his arm cheeky thing him, so we all put our faces to the windows and stuck our tongues out  

Mike you really don't seem to be having a great deal of luck mate at all, who have you upset x

[Andy B]

.....
Don't start me on bstard BUS LANES..

Are those the things where NO f***er drives in 'em regardless of the time of day or day or week ...... buses included!

[Bo Bo]

you must not ENTER any box junction unless your exit is clear.

I thought you could if you are turning right  :-/

[phil her up]

ok Mike you got to be philosophical about it , how many times have you parked on double yellow lines  or drove at well over the legal limit & got away with it, I know I & most of the forum have, so look at it like that, you could have been caught tearing down the motorway, lost your licence, then your job, then your wife, then your house & found yourself with a bandaged leg somewhere begging for a half eaten big mac.In life you gotta roll with the punches & dont let the barstewards drag you down  

[MikeDundee]

ok Mike you got to be philosophical about it , how many times have you parked on double yellow lines  or drove at well over the legal limit & got away with it, I know I & most of the forum have, so look at it like that, you could have been caught tearing down the motorway, lost your licence, then your job, then your wife, then your house & found yourself with a bandaged leg somewhere begging for a half eaten big mac.In life you gotta roll with the punches & dont let the barstewards drag you down  

Cheers for the advice ....Have appealed in any case and await their response ...have a cheque waiting just in case

[ians]

Were you fined for enterring the box, or actually getting stuck in it?

I can't see from the pics that they can prove you were stopped - in the second picture you seem to be well away from the box so I don't see that pic is relevant.   So unless there is a speed detector on the first pic, how do they know you were stationary?   As I understood it the HC says don't enter the box unless the exit is clear, but I thought the actual offence is stopping.  

Having said that, I doubt you have much chance of a successful appeal.  Good luck anyway

[Paul M]

you must not ENTER any box junction unless your exit is clear.

I thought you could if you are turning right  :-/

You can stop in it (to give way) if you're turning right, but only if the exit is clear. That is, as soon as there is a gap in the traffic you are giving way to, you should be able to complete your turn. That way if the traffic lights change, you won't be left blocking the junction even after oncoming traffic has stopped.

The complication arises if you legitimately enter with a clear exit, but several of the cars you're giving way to turn into the road you want to take, subsequently blocking your exit. I'm not sure what would happen with one of these big-brother CCTV cameras in such a scenario.