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[Turk]

2.5TD Elite ('94). 160K on clock when bought. Felt a little "boat-like", so I lowered her by 40mm with new springs and shocks. Fitted a camber kit from Regal Auto (Adjustable poly-bushes on rear and "cam" bolt set up on front). Also changed to 17" alloys (135/45-17). Camber and tracking set up at local Race Prep centre as they had the laser alignment and computer programme that included the Omega "B".
End result...no wallowing or pitching but still a comfortable ride.  

All was fine for two years. At approx 215K  a "CLONK..CLONK" noise appeared.
DROP LINKS knackered...changed them...happy days !!

Car was pulling to the left, checked lower bushes...movement...changed complete LOWER ARMS (easier !).

Still pulling to left...measured wheel base. Left side 11mm shorter (..Hmm !)
Noticed crossmember of engine cradle had been bashed at some point (Not me Guv...I'd know if I'd clouted it that hard !!).
ENGINE CRADLE changed. Sorted ? er..No !!

Main REAR BUSHES changed. Wheelbase now 2 - 3 mm difference..better !

4 wheel alignment checked and adjusted.    

Still not right.

Now I have to constantly adjust the steering wheel due to car pulling left OR right if wheel is not in DEAD STRAIGHT AHEAD position (not due to road camber)  and when moving away eg "T" junction, steering wheel does not "slide" back to central position (Yes I know...bad driving habit). In fact, if I don't physically turn it to centre, the car would do a complete U-Turn.
Steering wheel also keeps turning in direction of travel when braking eg when approaching a junction on a slope...and it pulls to right when braking.

One thing I feel I should mention is that the system most recently used to check the camber was the "spirit level" type guages, not the computer system used originally. Tho' it was done by PROMAX, a well established performance car prep company.  

Any ideas...I'm starting to go grey !!!

[TheBoy]

Any play in steering components - trackrod ends, steering idler etc....

Also, do you have even tyre wear?

4 wheel alignment is probably money wasted, full geometery (as you had done originally) is the one...

May be worth getting geometry checked/adjusted to ensure that is straight, though, if there is obvious play in suspension steering, sort that first...

Also, check out http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk the man behind that is a member here...

[JasonH]

I must say you do seem to have a full handle on the situation - done all the right things etc.

It still sounds like your wheel alignment is wrong to me. See if the tyre wear gives you any clues. Have you got a printout of the settings they applied?

When you say 4 wheel alignment do you mean the rear camber and toe was checked and adjusted too? If the front is set from the rear tyres and the rears are wrong the car will crab.

When the wishbones were done were they torqued up with the wheels on the ground? If not the front bushes will be under tension in the normal position and may fail very quickly.

I'd double check the wishbone bushes too.

[hotel21]

My MV6 had a vague steering tendancy, especially over tar bandings and well worn lorry tracks on the road.  

Virtually eliminated by replacing the steering idler arm.  Car now still has a very slight tendancy to fall off to the left but I think its the road engineer designed camber to ensure water falls from the crown of the road into the gutter.

Would suggest a drive on a smooth concrete (factory?) floor and see if it still steers left.

Other than that, sounds like you have the matter well in hand!

HtH

B

[Turk]

Thanks folks. Yes, T/Rod ends ok, changed in last 12 months.

The camber and tracking was done all round.

As for tyre wear, light scrubbing on outside (1" width approx) but this was prior to starting any alignment work, so I can't tell the present wear rate. Wet weather also reduces any scrubbing etc...and boy has it been wet !

I'll re-torque the wishbones as I did them whilst the car was on the 4 post lift...so wheels were not supported.

No geometry print out as it was done a couple of years back.

Did some checking in the works car park last night and if I steer slightly to the right and release the wheel she goes to full lock...and stays there.  Then its "Magic Roundabout" time. (Possibly toe-ing out on r/h front )

Steer to the left, release the wheel and she returns to centre ok.

There is also a "CLONK-ing" sound on passenger side(..again !).
Not DROP LINKS this time.. I've done 'em.
Happens even over slight bumps, with a groaning or creaking sound when moving away with steering off centre. Seems to be at the top of the leg.  I'm thinking either problem with spring or maybe top mount bearings have dried out and are grabbing. This may explain the "groaning" sound (by now it's both the car & me !!) but would this cause the "Clonk".  

[hotel21]

You initially said the car steers left, then looks like its now steering right?   I would be checking the steering idler.

OK.  I'm no expert on these things and no doubt others may well shoot me down, but....

You have wide, low profile tyres on.  If there is some wear on the tyre edges, this tends to exagerate the 'self steer' tendancy, in my experience.  In addition, sounds like the RH lower wishbone is Friar Tucked hence the reason for the steering tending to run headlong to the right given half a chance, less so to the left.

No doubt you are aware but, if not, the steering idler is not the drop links, nor is it the track rod ends or the lower suspension arm.  I changed the steering idler on mine and it made a massive difference to the steering - as did the new 235/45/17 tyres!!  

It used to have a similarish right turn tendancy but I put it down to tyre wear and steering idler as well as living in a town with hundreds of roundabouts!

HtH

B

[Turk]

Yes, initially it was pulling to the left, but after the lower arms and rear main bushes were changed that was sorted.

Now she drives straight, but if I steer to the right slightly and release the wheel, she just to keeps turning to full lock. No problem with the left turning.

Drop links were changed as they were well knackered, no adverse handling, just an annoying "clonk,clonk".

The tyre wear is only light scrubbing so I doubt that is causing such extreme driving characteristics.

I'll check the steering idler and get the toe-ing re-checked.

Cheers.

[wheels-inmotion]

2.5TD Elite ('94). 160K on clock when bought. Felt a little "boat-like", so I lowered her by 40mm with new springs and shocks. Fitted a camber kit from Regal Auto (Adjustable poly-bushes on rear and "cam" bolt set up on front). Also changed to 17" alloys (135/45-17). Camber and tracking set up at local Race Prep centre as they had the laser alignment and computer programme that included the Omega "B".
End result...no wallowing or pitching but still a comfortable ride.  

All was fine for two years. At approx 215K  a "CLONK..CLONK" noise appeared.
DROP LINKS knackered...changed them...happy days !!

Car was pulling to the left, checked lower bushes...movement...changed complete LOWER ARMS (easier !).

Still pulling to left...measured wheel base. Left side 11mm shorter (..Hmm !)
Noticed crossmember of engine cradle had been bashed at some point (Not me Guv...I'd know if I'd clouted it that hard !!).
ENGINE CRADLE changed. Sorted ? er..No !!

Main REAR BUSHES changed. Wheelbase now 2 - 3 mm difference..better !

4 wheel alignment checked and adjusted.    

Still not right.

Now I have to constantly adjust the steering wheel due to car pulling left OR right if wheel is not in DEAD STRAIGHT AHEAD position (not due to road camber)  and when moving away eg "T" junction, steering wheel does not "slide" back to central position (Yes I know...bad driving habit). In fact, if I don't physically turn it to centre, the car would do a complete U-Turn.
Steering wheel also keeps turning in direction of travel when braking eg when approaching a junction on a slope...and it pulls to right when braking.

One thing I feel I should mention is that the system most recently used to check the camber was the "spirit level" type guages, not the computer system used originally. Tho' it was done by PROMAX, a well established performance car prep company.  

Any ideas...I'm starting to go grey !!!
 

Quite a catalogue of questions there.... I think you can dismiss Geometry from this topic since the forces involved would not be so selective regarding low speed.. The descriptions you have displayed would require violent geometrical displacement and evident in all areas of your driving. Play in the steering would favor the nsf idler arm and for various reasons pull the car left, so we can dismiss that. To me everything indicates a situation called "memory steer" meaning the top bearing mount on the osf is (worn, seized, crushed or just dry) The natural forces designed to return the steering with or without braking are being resisted.
A simple test (costs nothing) Jack the front up, start the engine and feel the resistance of the steering left then right, is it the same? admitidly the metabolistic bushings are relaxed but the movement left and right should encounter the same resitance.

[Turk]

Right, I'll check the steering resistance.

I'm getting a fair old "clonking" sound from the front passenger side over pot holes and even slight bumps,  which would tie in with movement as a result of a crushed bearing etc.

Thanks again for all the help and advice folks.    

[familyman]

Just to jump in Turk the self centering your talking about is done on the geometry side by castor of the front wheel. not adjustable, this is quiet complicted to explain, basically its the angle the strut sits to the angle of the hub unit on the axle line all done vertically from top mount. Modern cars with power steering run a lot of castor to improve handling (thats why with engine off steering feels so much heavier than old cars without power steering, weight of steering its not all done on rack or box gearing).
If this self centring is not working as mentioned first i would look at top strut bearing/mount if okay check strut for a bend or crease near where it mounts into hub assembly. you said subframe bent /moved out of position so whatever done this would have enough force to bend strut and affect castor on that side. This would also affect your wheelbase measurments. Clonking could be from internally damaged shock.
Hope this helps

[TheBoy]

I'm getting a fair old "clonking" sound from the front passenger side over pot holes and even slight bumps

Wishbone bushes, or drop links...

[Turk]

lower arms and drop links changed, and re-checked just in case. Similar sound to Drop links, but louder and deeper.
I'll check the top mount and steering resistance next.

[TheBoy]

Sorry, didn't realise you'd done wishbones etc.  Top strut bush worth checking, as is strut itself...

[Turk]

Yep..dem bits done !!!  
But JasonH advised that I need to re-torque the wishbones with the car on the ground, as I did them on a 4 post lift with the wheels unsupported.
Really glad I've found this site. The tips and advice are much appreciated.

[TheBoy]

Yep..dem bits done !!!  
But JasonH advised that I need to re-torque the wishbones with the car on the ground, as I did them on a 4 post lift with the wheels unsupported.
Really glad I've found this site. The tips and advice are much appreciated.

Yes, apparently torqueing up off the ground leads to premature failure of bushes...