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Mole

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dodgy clocks
« on: 04 March 2007, 18:31:08 »
the other day in torrential rain the speedo and rev counter stopped working in my mv6.
the rev counter needle vibrates at zero as soon as i turn on the ignition but does nothing else.
yesterday the clocks were back to normal but today they aren't working again.
any thoughts?
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JamesV6CDX

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Re: dodgy clocks
« Reply #1 on: 04 March 2007, 18:32:26 »
Quote
the other day in torrential rain the speedo and rev counter stopped working in my mv6.
the rev counter needle vibrates at zero as soon as i turn on the ignition but does nothing else.
yesterday the clocks were back to normal but today they aren't working again.
any thoughts?

Bad connection or bad earth??  ::)
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TheBoy

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Re: dodgy clocks
« Reply #2 on: 04 March 2007, 19:15:12 »
Quote
Quote
the other day in torrential rain the speedo and rev counter stopped working in my mv6.
the rev counter needle vibrates at zero as soon as i turn on the ignition but does nothing else.
yesterday the clocks were back to normal but today they aren't working again.
any thoughts?

Bad connection or bad earth??  ::)
Agreed. Push back firmly about where rev counter is (connector behind)...
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JamesV6CDX

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Re: dodgy clocks
« Reply #3 on: 04 March 2007, 19:37:51 »
Quote
Quote
Quote
the other day in torrential rain the speedo and rev counter stopped working in my mv6.
the rev counter needle vibrates at zero as soon as i turn on the ignition but does nothing else.
yesterday the clocks were back to normal but today they aren't working again.
any thoughts?

Bad connection or bad earth??  ::)
Agreed. Push back firmly about where rev counter is (connector behind)...

Yep.. these instrument panels are known for popping forwards.. especially when taken out by cowboys and screws not put back (talking from experience)...
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Big Rod

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Re: dodgy clocks
« Reply #4 on: 07 March 2007, 10:29:40 »
Quote
Yep.. these instrument panels are known for popping forwards.. especially when taken out by cowboys and screws not put back (talking from experience)...

That wasn't me Mole, I never had the dash out of the BatOmegaBile. Oh it just dawned on me that you were talking about another car!! How many you got now?
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MaxV6

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Re: dodgy clocks
« Reply #5 on: 07 March 2007, 12:49:59 »
it MIGHT be loose connector, but my experience is that you basically need a new instrument cluster.

I had precisely the same fault , it turned out to be component failure on the control board that reads the sensor signals and drives the clocks.

you can get similar symptoms from a sensor or ABS ecu failure... but usually that lights up the TC/ABS warning lights

a way to double check this...

is the odometer (mileage) still clocking?
can the MID give you average speed and fuel economy readings??

if so it's just the cluster and they can be replaced easily enough....   i recall Vx wanting about £120 + VAt for them.

or on ebay for between £25 and £65 depending on vehicle year and luck,.

note that there are a number of variants.

for the 3.0/3.2 V6 there are AFAIK 3,
1)early models with a green circuit ribbon on the back,
2) Mini facelift ones witha Blue printed ribbon,
3)  facelift ones again with a blue ribbon.  they all have different multi pin connector layouts and are NOT interchangeable.

all of which go up to 160MPH

a similar situation exists on the 4 pots and 2.5
most of theirs only go to 140MPH though...   I thought the 2.5 ought to be the same as the 3.0, but i have seen examples with clocks that stop at 140, as well as those that go to  160.

I suspect it may be model related....   but wasn't paying close enough attention to be sure.....  


it IS possible to swap the failed board out, but it's fiddly and rather easy to break things in the process...   simpler just to swap the cluster asa whole....  


Max
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Paulus

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Re: dodgy clocks
« Reply #6 on: 07 March 2007, 13:39:05 »
Quote
it MIGHT be loose connector, but my experience is that you basically need a new instrument cluster.

I had precisely the same fault , it turned out to be component failure on the control board that reads the sensor signals and drives the clocks.

you can get similar symptoms from a sensor or ABS ecu failure... but usually that lights up the TC/ABS warning lights

a way to double check this...

is the odometer (mileage) still clocking?
can the MID give you average speed and fuel economy readings??

if so it's just the cluster and they can be replaced easily enough....   i recall Vx wanting about £120 + VAt for them.

or on ebay for between £25 and £65 depending on vehicle year and luck,.

note that there are a number of variants.

for the 3.0/3.2 V6 there are AFAIK 3,
1)early models with a green circuit ribbon on the back,
2) Mini facelift ones witha Blue printed ribbon,
3)  facelift ones again with a blue ribbon.  they all have different multi pin connector layouts and are NOT interchangeable.

all of which go up to 160MPH

a similar situation exists on the 4 pots and 2.5
most of theirs only go to 140MPH though...   I thought the 2.5 ought to be the same as the 3.0, but i have seen examples with clocks that stop at 140, as well as those that go to  160.

I suspect it may be model related....   but wasn't paying close enough attention to be sure.....  


it IS possible to swap the failed board out, but it's fiddly and rather easy to break things in the process...   simpler just to swap the cluster asa whole....  


Max

What's it mean if it doesn't clock up miles and fuel consumption on the clock or the computer? This happens with mine (intermitantly).

Paul.
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MaxV6

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Re: dodgy clocks
« Reply #7 on: 07 March 2007, 14:03:45 »
if the MID can't give Average speed , and the odometer stops racking up the miles, the most common cause is probably the ABS Speed/Rotation sensor on the rear wheels.

they can sometimes be retrieved by cleaning...   have a search for items regarding that.

if the fuel economy readings don't work, but the others do... then it's possibly related to something like the cam sensor, or perhaps an ECU fault,  a quick check of error codes should reveal that.

it could also be an intermittent failure of the computer.....

..

the thing about the MID data relating to the clocks....   if the clocks don't work but the MID does, it generally proves that the sensors & relevant ECU  work and the correct driving signal is being  generated .....

if the MID isn't working AND the clocks aren't working, then it's probable that there is a  sensor or ECU failure, OR a wiring fault.. (unplugged items....  broken wires, bad earths, water related damage etc)

if the clocks work but the mID doesn't , then either it's probably a computer fault, or wiring fault. (being unplugged , always one to watch for ;) )
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Mole

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Re: dodgy clocks
« Reply #8 on: 09 March 2007, 07:32:36 »
Took the instrument panel out the mv6 last night while i was taking the insides apart for the manual gearbox conversion. The circuit board looked fine as did the connector. Put a little vaseline on the connector and repeatedly pushed the panel on and off while the engine was running to no avail. The rev counter needle just vibrates at zero. boo! Incidently as it was a traffic car the speedo has a sticker on it saying it has been calibrated but it only goes up to 150.
Hi rod mate, had 1 then 2 then 3 now back to 2.
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Mole

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Re: dodgy clocks
« Reply #9 on: 10 March 2007, 00:55:00 »
Quick update. finished the manual conversion and it has transformed the car. It feels much more responsive and oddly lighter. With it all together and the battery back in the speedo and rev counter still not working. The MID shows AUTOMATIC GEARBOX as soon as I move off. Will unplugging the transmission ecu stop this or is it going to be a fiddly wiring task?
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BigCat

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Re: dodgy clocks
« Reply #10 on: 10 March 2007, 02:00:51 »
Sounds as thought you've just converted your car from Auto to manual, in which case your auto gearbox wiring will be there, but the MID won't be seeing the signal from it as it expects. I think this is a Tech 2 job - needs to tell the MID or ECU that the car is now a manual not auto.

I think TheBoy is the expert on this.
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TheBoy

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Re: dodgy clocks
« Reply #11 on: 10 March 2007, 10:16:23 »
MID is a Tech2 job officially, needs to be reprogrammed to match the car.

Unofficially, there is a wire you can short out somewhere, don't have the wiring diagrams to hand at present.
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BigCat

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Re: dodgy clocks
« Reply #12 on: 11 March 2007, 00:27:44 »
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MID is a Tech2 job officially, needs to be reprogrammed to match the car.

Unofficially, there is a wire you can short out somewhere, don't have the wiring diagrams to hand at present.
Having just upgraded my car to a CID, I can tell you the wire from the AutoTrans is Grey and connected to pin 21 on the 32 pin plug at the back of the display. Of course it also comes up somewhere underneath the car.
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TheBoy

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Re: dodgy clocks
« Reply #13 on: 11 March 2007, 14:14:41 »
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Quote
MID is a Tech2 job officially, needs to be reprogrammed to match the car.

Unofficially, there is a wire you can short out somewhere, don't have the wiring diagrams to hand at present.
Having just upgraded my car to a CID, I can tell you the wire from the AutoTrans is Grey and connected to pin 21 on the 32 pin plug at the back of the display. Of course it also comes up somewhere underneath the car.
In your case, when they pair the stereo to it, ensure they tell the stereo/screen that its a manual/auto/hids etc as appropriate...
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BigCat

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Re: dodgy clocks
« Reply #14 on: 12 March 2007, 00:15:57 »
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Quote
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MID is a Tech2 job officially, needs to be reprogrammed to match the car.

Unofficially, there is a wire you can short out somewhere, don't have the wiring diagrams to hand at present.
Having just upgraded my car to a CID, I can tell you the wire from the AutoTrans is Grey and connected to pin 21 on the 32 pin plug at the back of the display. Of course it also comes up somewhere underneath the car.
In your case, when they pair the stereo to it, ensure they tell the stereo/screen that its a manual/auto/hids etc as appropriate...
Cheers TB  :y
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