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[Martin_1962]

Regarding the fuelling, the auto calibration claimed James' nozzles were too big at 2.5mm but we ignored this. Injector duration was slightly shorter than for petrol at idle but we found it needs a lot more fuel in the map at higher durations when manually mapped, so this is no bad thing. It was just popping up an "injectors full open" warning when revved to 6k, but the fuel mix was staying rich so not a real issue.

Kevin

Problem with Romano kit is when injectors are full open it drops to petrol rather than remains full open.

AGWW recommended shortening the duration - mine is about same as petrol duration but I am sure it is a bit weak.

If I up the pressure I could lock the injectors as they lock at just under 3 bar.

[Kevin Wood]

Problem with Romano kit is when injectors are full open it drops to petrol rather than remains full open.
 
AGWW recommended shortening the duration - mine is about same as petrol duration but I am sure it is a bit weak.
 
If I up the pressure I could lock the injectors as they lock at just under 3 bar.

Going lean at full revs and full throttle is not a good place to be. I'd be a bit wary of taking fuel out. Certainly monitor the Lambdas and make sure they stay pegged firmly on rich throughout the whole rev range at full throttle.

The problem with running out of injector flow is that, even if it didn't go lean when you were tuning it, if additional fuel is required for some reason (say intake temperature is lower, gas pressure drops, baro pressure is higher, etc) there's nothing else to give and it will go lean.

What gas pressure do you currently run? James' is 1 bar. I guess tweaking it up a little is an option, as long as there are no signs of problems with running out of reolution at the low end. Lambda signals were bobbing up and down nicely at idle?

Kevin

[Martin_1962]

No laptop to monitor but AFAIR about 1.5 bar

I think I need to lambda monitor

[Jay w]

well the saga unfolds.........

halfway through running auto set up the it fails and wont sustain low idle and will not continue.

in addition we have a number of fault codes that are behaving wierd. here is the situation

car will bring up one fault code at a time, as soon as we clear one, another one appear, they rotate between
Knock sensor, camshaft sensor, crank sensor.

only one of the codes will appear at any one time, you will never get more than any one at a time, as soon as we clear one another one will arrive after a period of time.

There is also a low level misfire floor the throttle and it will splutter until it gets past 2000rpm......

any ideas, this is now bugging the hell out of us now

[Kevin Wood]

Does it now run OK on petrol without fault codes appearing?

At idle, on petrol, fully warmed up, what does the LPG ECU say? RPM being reported correctly? Lambda sensor signals both cycling between around 0.2 and 0.8 volts? Injector durations roughly the same and, at a guess about 3ms for each cylinder? Battery voltage plausible? Manifold pressure around 0.3 bar? Temperatures (vapouriser and LPG) reading OK?

Just remembered we had to change the injector configuration to 1 ohm injectors on James' install. Have a look on the side of the coil of your gas injectors and see if they are 1 ohm jobs. System defaulted to 3 ohm.

We had a strange issue with the controller software during one of our calibration attemps. It appeared to lock up and left the engine running with an odd combination of a couple of cylinders on petrol and a couple on lpg. Restarted the software, restarted the car and tried again and it was fine.

Might be worth switching to LPG and setting all the cylinders back to petrol using the little switch icons on the lower right hand side of the screen. Then switch one pot at a time to LPG and see if any or all cause running issues.

.. and I'll send that configuration file to you in a minute

Kevin

[Jay w]

Does it now run OK on petrol without fault codes appearing?

At idle, on petrol, fully warmed up, what does the LPG ECU say? RPM being reported correctly? Lambda sensor signals both cycling between around 0.2 and 0.8 volts? Injector durations roughly the same and, at a guess about 3ms for each cylinder? Battery voltage plausible? Manifold pressure around 0.3 bar? Temperatures (vapouriser and LPG) reading OK?

Just remembered we had to change the injector configuration to 1 ohm injectors on James' install. Have a look on the side of the coil of your gas injectors and see if they are 1 ohm jobs. System defaulted to 3 ohm.

We had a strange issue with the controller software during one of our calibration attemps. It appeared to lock up and left the engine running with an odd combination of a couple of cylinders on petrol and a couple on lpg. Restarted the software, restarted the car and tried again and it was fine.

Might be worth switching to LPG and setting all the cylinders back to petrol using the little switch icons on the lower right hand side of the screen. Then switch one pot at a time to LPG and see if any or all cause running issues.

.. and I'll send that configuration file to you in a minute

Kevin

these fault codes are cycling whist on petrol.....

RPM is correct and the lambdas are right

We have get it running on LPG, it idles and will pull through a lot of the rev range, if the throttle is opened quickly then it will stutter and faulter then revert back to petrol, it is clear that it is not configured correctly yet though.

i am going over to the garage tomorrow and will be going through the system to make sure everything is in order.....

[Kevin Wood]

Sounds like you need to get the issues on petrol sorted first  

One other thought. I don't suppose you've got some of the injectors crossed over on the piggyback loom?
Also, did you wire them according to cylinder numbers or as grouped on the LPG loom?

We grouped them as on the lpg loom, one branch of the loom to each bank:

LPG loom number             Cylinder number
1                                         1
2                                         3
3                                         5
4                                         2
5                                         4
6                                         6

As long as the same numbers are feeding the same cylinders and that number is fed from the petrol injector plug for that cylinder it should be OK but you never know. It would be easy to get them crossed due to the shape of the intake manifold.

Your observations on LPG sound about right. I had to add a lot of extra fuel to James' car in the mid range to get it to run ok.

EMail sent with his final settings

Kevin

[Taxi_Driver]

Regarding the fuelling, the auto calibration claimed James' nozzles were too big at 2.5mm but we ignored this. Injector duration was slightly shorter than for petrol at idle but we found it needs a lot more fuel in the map at higher durations when manually mapped, so this is no bad thing. It was just popping up an "injectors full open" warning when revved to 6k, but the fuel mix was staying rich so not a real issue.

Kevin

Problem with Romano kit is when injectors are full open it drops to petrol rather than remains full open.

AGWW recommended shortening the duration - mine is about same as petrol duration but I am sure it is a bit weak.

If I up the pressure I could lock the injectors as they lock at just under 3 bar.

You still have that problem Martin??

You've the same system as mine as I think? Altho i remember your cylinders are fed from a central point......mine are fed from a rail, but just maybe coz yours is v6, mines a 4pot

I did have the same prob at motorway speeds......floor it and it switched back to petrol.....and couldnt get it back on gas until the pressure dropped in the rail......which either meant leaving it for several hours or disconnect a gas pipe on the rail to let the pressure out. Mine was fixed by a firmware update on the lpg ecu.......you sure your running the latest firmware?  :-/

[Martin_1962]

Regarding the fuelling, the auto calibration claimed James' nozzles were too big at 2.5mm but we ignored this. Injector duration was slightly shorter than for petrol at idle but we found it needs a lot more fuel in the map at higher durations when manually mapped, so this is no bad thing. It was just popping up an "injectors full open" warning when revved to 6k, but the fuel mix was staying rich so not a real issue.

Kevin

Problem with Romano kit is when injectors are full open it drops to petrol rather than remains full open.

AGWW recommended shortening the duration - mine is about same as petrol duration but I am sure it is a bit weak.

If I up the pressure I could lock the injectors as they lock at just under 3 bar.

You still have that problem Martin??

You've the same system as mine as I think? Altho i remember your cylinders are fed from a central point......mine are fed from a rail, but just maybe coz yours is v6, mines a 4pot

I did have the same prob at motorway speeds......floor it and it switched back to petrol.....and couldnt get it back on gas until the pressure dropped in the rail......which either meant leaving it for several hours or disconnect a gas pipe on the rail to let the pressure out. Mine was fixed by a firmware update on the lpg ecu.......you sure your running the latest firmware?  :-/

I need the use of a lap top to update, but I haven't had an over pressure for about a year, but I know it runs a bit lean at high revs

[Jay w]

Sounds like you need to get the issues on petrol sorted first  

One other thought. I don't suppose you've got some of the injectors crossed over on the piggyback loom?
Also, did you wire them according to cylinder numbers or as grouped on the LPG loom?

We grouped them as on the lpg loom, one branch of the loom to each bank:

LPG loom number             Cylinder number
1                                         1
2                                         3
3                                         5
4                                         2
5                                         4
6                                         6

As long as the same numbers are feeding the same cylinders and that number is fed from the petrol injector plug for that cylinder it should be OK but you never know. It would be easy to get them crossed due to the shape of the intake manifold.

Your observations on LPG sound about right. I had to add a lot of extra fuel to James' car in the mid range to get it to run ok.

EMail sent with his final settings

Kevin

cheers for the settings  

when i set up the loom i connected it number for number so 1 is on 1 and 2 on 2, so on

and the LPG injectors have been wired up the same way as well.

[Kevin Wood]

when i set up the loom i connected it number for number so 1 is on 1 and 2 on 2, so on

I don't think there'll be a problem with that, as each cylinder is handled individually by the LPG ecu, as long as each cylinder is wired up to the same number in all 3 cases. Might be something to try if all else fails though :-/

Kevin

[JamesV6CDX]

I don't believe all those sensors have failed at once, there is a wiring issue, or a red herring...

[Jay w]

I don't believe all those sensors have failed at once, there is a wiring issue, or a red herring...

it has to be a wiring or ECU issue as it only brings up one of the faults at a time, never multple faults at the same time.......

TBH i am getting to the end of my teather with it, if i cant get it sorted before long then i will pull the lpg kit out and sell it and move on

[JamesV6CDX]

You need to let Kevin and I have a look at it together, before you do that... along with a code resetter...

[Jay w]

You need to let Kevin and I have a look at it together, before you do that... along with a code resetter...

we are using a system called Launch, it is a really good reader, although not as good as something like Tech2 though......

i might yet take you up on that