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[Marks DTM Calib]

And we're discarding them over the benefits because of that...?

Thats the key thing, there are no REAL benefits as the quads require attention before the 80k interval is reached due to them working loose.

In addition, there is the potential for them to slow the flame front.

Hence, you can infer that they are not worth bothering with. 

[Lazydocker]

I knew someone with better knowledge would explain it better

I'll stick with the whatever I get as they'll only be in a year or so anyway

[feeutfo]

And we're discarding them over the benefits because of that...?

Thats the key thing, there are no REAL benefits as the quads require attention before the 80k interval is reached due to them working loose.

In addition, there is the potential for them to slow the flame front.

Hence, you can infer that they are not worth bothering with. 

Depends if we believe the shielding theory. I wouldn't leave them in for 80 k anyway esp with lpg, as suggested earlier. Previous set where loose on other car, but I didn't know of the issue when I installed them, so didn't re tighten after the initial torque (25nm is it? ) when the washers relaxed.

It's only a potential shielding after all. I don't buy it personally ESP given the gap that's bigger than I visualized. But it's been an interesting topic.  ESP if it windes Andy B up   .  sorry Andy   

[Marks DTM Calib]

And we're discarding them over the benefits because of that...?

Thats the key thing, there are no REAL benefits as the quads require attention before the 80k interval is reached due to them working loose.

In addition, there is the potential for them to slow the flame front.

Hence, you can infer that they are not worth bothering with. 

Depends if we believe the shielding theory. I wouldn't leave them in for 80 k anyway esp with lpg, as suggested earlier. Previous set where loose on other car, but I didn't know of the issue when I installed them, so didn't re tighten after the initial torque (25nm is it? ) when the washers relaxed.

It's only a potential shielding after all. I don't buy it personally ESP given the gap that's bigger than I visualized. But it's been an interesting topic.  ESP if it windes Andy B up   .  sorry Andy   

Lol, its a slow down of the flame front, which I can see happening as the flame is shielded from the mix on the outer part of the electrode. The actual initial ignition wont be any different.

[Andy B]

....  ESP if it windes Andy B up   .  sorry Andy   

Doesn't bother me either way. I've had twins in, fitted quads and replaced them after nothing like 80k & gone back to twins. I've never had plugs come loose (last time I had a loose plug was 1980 in my GT250  & that was a single.)
IMO once the flame front has set off, the spark plug has no further influence whether it's a single, twin, quad or even 2 plugs like her Smart.

[Kevin Wood]

It really isn't worth 5 pages of worrying about, IMHO. 

If the flame front is delayed, the effect is to slightly retard the ignition timing. Given that the car was sold with quad plugs that's probably what the engine was running when the ECU calibration was made, so, if there's a significant effect, it's already compensated for.

Kevin

[Andy B]

It really isn't worth 5 pages of worrying about, IMHO.  ......

Who's worried? 

[TheBoy]

It really isn't worth 5 pages of worrying about, IMHO. 

If the flame front is delayed, the effect is to slightly retard the ignition timing. Given that the car was sold with quad plugs that's probably what the engine was running when the ECU calibration was made, so, if there's a significant effect, it's already compensated for.

Kevin

retarding the ignition sounds like taking away some of my precious GGs....  ....so that be fighting talk, Mr Wood

[Kevin Wood]

retarding the ignition sounds like taking away some of my precious GGs....  ....so that be fighting talk, Mr Wood

.. Only if they didn't calibrate the ECU with the quads.

TBH, it's all speculation, though. A back to back test is the way to sort things like this out.

[TheBoy]

retarding the ignition sounds like taking away some of my precious GGs....  ....so that be fighting talk, Mr Wood

.. Only if they didn't calibrate the ECU with the quads.

TBH, it's all speculation, though. A back to back test is the way to sort things like this out.

A race?  I wouldn't be so immature

[Lazydocker]

retarding the ignition sounds like taking away some of my precious GGs....  ....so that be fighting talk, Mr Wood

.. Only if they didn't calibrate the ECU with the quads.

TBH, it's all speculation, though. A back to back test is the way to sort things like this out.

A race?  I wouldn't be so immature

Brackley to a meet perhaps

[feeutfo]

retarding the ignition sounds like taking away some of my precious GGs....  ....so that be fighting talk, Mr Wood

.. Only if they didn't calibrate the ECU with the quads.

TBH, it's all speculation, though. A back to back test is the way to sort things like this out.

Bah, there'll be break all difference. So may as well have the extra life, as Mr Gm intended. 

I'll fit quads, well, I have already, knowing LPG was on the way it obviously makes sense to check your ignition system first. BEFORE the install. 

There in lies a clue.

[TheBoy]

retarding the ignition sounds like taking away some of my precious GGs....  ....so that be fighting talk, Mr Wood

.. Only if they didn't calibrate the ECU with the quads.

TBH, it's all speculation, though. A back to back test is the way to sort things like this out.

Bah, there'll be break all difference. So may as well have the extra life, as Mr Gm intended. 

I'll fit quads, well, I have already, knowing LPG was on the way it obviously makes sense to check your ignition system first. BEFORE the install. 

There in lies a clue.

Some smart arse said it would have made sense to do the cambelt as well

[Lazydocker]

retarding the ignition sounds like taking away some of my precious GGs....  ....so that be fighting talk, Mr Wood

.. Only if they didn't calibrate the ECU with the quads.

TBH, it's all speculation, though. A back to back test is the way to sort things like this out.

Bah, there'll be break all difference. So may as well have the extra life, as Mr Gm intended. 

I'll fit quads, well, I have already, knowing LPG was on the way it obviously makes sense to check your ignition system first. BEFORE the install. 

There in lies a clue.

Ahh... So it was related to the EML we managed to get up then

I've got quads on order and the mileage on them will be pretty similar if TB changes the twins at the same mileage I change the quads (because I'll get there before him ) at, shall we say 30k, and we'll ask the master to do a direct comparison

[TheBoy]

retarding the ignition sounds like taking away some of my precious GGs....  ....so that be fighting talk, Mr Wood

.. Only if they didn't calibrate the ECU with the quads.

TBH, it's all speculation, though. A back to back test is the way to sort things like this out.

Bah, there'll be break all difference. So may as well have the extra life, as Mr Gm intended. 

I'll fit quads, well, I have already, knowing LPG was on the way it obviously makes sense to check your ignition system first. BEFORE the install. 

There in lies a clue.

Ahh... So it was related to the EML we managed to get up then

I've got quads on order and the mileage on them will be pretty similar if TB changes the twins at the same mileage I change the quads (because I'll get there before him ) at, shall we say 30k, and we'll ask the master to do a direct comparison

Mine get changed bi-annually normally, so around 20-25k... ...that said, TBE doesn't do many miles....