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Author Topic: Rover K series  (Read 7302 times)

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TheBoy

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Re: Rover K series
« Reply #15 on: 01 February 2008, 22:24:34 »

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well from someone who does these headgaskets on a weekly basis (i kid you not!) inlet manifold can crack, the manifold gasket can fail, waterpump leaks were the stat housing pushes into the back of it (1 o ring). the two bigproblems with these engines are the stat sticks shut,boils the water and screws the headgasket or the bypass pipe from the cylinder head(by the dipstick tube) back to the header tank blocks up so you get no flow round the engine with the same results.. we have done the h/g on a 3000mile old MGtf but also have a few 200 and 400s running about with 130,000/140,000 miles on them and never been touched!! sometimes no rhyme or reason with this engine!!! >:(
Totally agree. The only Rovers worth buying are diesels and the v6's.
The KV6 is probably worse than the inline K for HG reliability...
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TheBoy

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Re: Rover K series
« Reply #16 on: 01 February 2008, 22:30:10 »

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well from someone who does these headgaskets on a weekly basis (i kid you not!) inlet manifold can crack, the manifold gasket can fail, waterpump leaks were the stat housing pushes into the back of it (1 o ring). the two bigproblems with these engines are the stat sticks shut,boils the water and screws the headgasket or the bypass pipe from the cylinder head(by the dipstick tube) back to the header tank blocks up so you get no flow round the engine with the same results.. we have done the h/g on a 3000mile old MGtf but also have a few 200 and 400s running about with 130,000/140,000 miles on them and never been touched!! sometimes no rhyme or reason with this engine!!! >:(
The homework I've done (and I have some contacts ;)) seem to point to HG failing if the cooling system glitches for any reason, due to the really tight tolerances on the temp between block/gasket/head join.

I think the reason mine lasted 72k is due to my paranoia with it, and keeping cooling system utterly tip-top.


As to the leak, I would have to say its leaking from the top hose to stat metal pipe, but just cannot locate it.


I think I might have to see if I can get it cold pressurised....
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motmann

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Re: Rover K series
« Reply #17 on: 01 February 2008, 23:34:05 »

that pipe is bolted to the block by two 8mm headed bolts your leak will be around one of these bolt hole brackets................. ;)
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Rover K series
« Reply #18 on: 01 February 2008, 23:34:29 »

The other issue with the K series is that the thermostat is in the bottom rad. hose to promote quick warm-up but it means the engine can overshoot normal running temperature and then get shock cooled several times before the system reaches an equilibrium with the thermostat partially open.

I have heard that there are issues with the location of the liners and head and accuracy of the deck heights on the liners but I'm not sure if they are things that become apparent when tuning them (which most of my K series owning mates have done) or as standard. There are also a lot of myths and urban legends floating around regarding the HGF problems, some of which I may have regurgitated above. :-[

It remains a great engine for its weight. If only Rover had had the funds to take it from the prototypes we have now to a production version we would be laughing. I have at least one mate who has been running a 230BHP K series for many years with the scholar conversion with no problems whatsoever. He does spank it some too (to 8K or more).

Apparently the shock cooling issue is worse on the MGF due to the long runs of pipe between rad. and engine.

Kevin
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motmann

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Re: Rover K series
« Reply #19 on: 01 February 2008, 23:52:37 »

every  k series i have ever seen has the stat bolted behind the waterpump housing? (in line 4). since  1989 when introduced i have never seen a liner move! . have seen a few bent con rods and pistons, the good thing is you just replace the damaged liner (£25)  agreed the engine in it self does put out quite a lot of power and does rev!! hence the kit car boys liking them.  god knows how but the design won the queens award to industry in 1991!!  but still the head gaskets go......
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TheBoy

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Re: Rover K series
« Reply #20 on: 02 February 2008, 10:25:56 »

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that pipe is bolted to the block by two 8mm headed bolts your leak will be around one of these bolt hole brackets................. ;)
Yes, that was what I was expecting. But I can't find any wet there.  Guess I need to take it off and visually inspect.  I'm guessing I need to take intake manifold off?
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Rover K series
« Reply #21 on: 02 February 2008, 10:28:55 »

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every  k series i have ever seen has the stat bolted behind the waterpump housing?

Yes. If you look at the way the coolant flows the thermostat is positioned where the cold water returns to the water pump from the rad. bottom hose. So, engine warms up, bypass plumbing routes the hot water around the base of the thermostat until it opens and then the thermostat is doused on stone cold water from the radiator so it shuts again. The result is that this cycle repeats and the cooling fluctuates wildly until the rad. is hot enough that the returning water doesn't slam the thermostat shut.

Kevin
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TheBoy

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Re: Rover K series
« Reply #22 on: 02 February 2008, 10:29:19 »

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every  k series i have ever seen has the stat bolted behind the waterpump housing? (in line 4). since  1989 when introduced i have never seen a liner move! . have seen a few bent con rods and pistons, the good thing is you just replace the damaged liner (£25)  agreed the engine in it self does put out quite a lot of power and does rev!! hence the kit car boys liking them.  god knows how but the design won the queens award to industry in 1991!!  but still the head gaskets go......
Agreed, it needed further development to overcome its issues.  However, BMW were trying to milk Rover, hence no development money went in (to anything until too late).  Obviously, Powertrain had no money to develop after the BMW sell-off, so the lump never got the development it badly needed.
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Marks DTM Calib

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Re: Rover K series
« Reply #23 on: 02 February 2008, 10:41:00 »

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every  k series i have ever seen has the stat bolted behind the waterpump housing? (in line 4). since  1989 when introduced i have never seen a liner move! . have seen a few bent con rods and pistons, the good thing is you just replace the damaged liner (£25)  agreed the engine in it self does put out quite a lot of power and does rev!! hence the kit car boys liking them.  god knows how but the design won the queens award to industry in 1991!!  but still the head gaskets go......
Agreed, it needed further development to overcome its issues.  However, BMW were trying to milk Rover, hence no development money went in (to anything until too late).  Obviously, Powertrain had no money to develop after the BMW sell-off, so the lump never got the development it badly needed.


You cant blame BMW for this one...........the K series pre-dates BMW by many years..............it should NEVER have been released as it was but, Rover were desperate.......they were still mainly using the naff A and B series engines!
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TheBoy

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Re: Rover K series
« Reply #24 on: 02 February 2008, 10:43:59 »

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every  k series i have ever seen has the stat bolted behind the waterpump housing? (in line 4). since  1989 when introduced i have never seen a liner move! . have seen a few bent con rods and pistons, the good thing is you just replace the damaged liner (£25)  agreed the engine in it self does put out quite a lot of power and does rev!! hence the kit car boys liking them.  god knows how but the design won the queens award to industry in 1991!!  but still the head gaskets go......
Agreed, it needed further development to overcome its issues.  However, BMW were trying to milk Rover, hence no development money went in (to anything until too late).  Obviously, Powertrain had no money to develop after the BMW sell-off, so the lump never got the development it badly needed.


You cant blame BMW for this one...........the K series pre-dates BMW by many years..............it should NEVER have been released as it was but, Rover were desperate.......they were still mainly using the naff A and B series engines!
Yes, Rover design through and through. Probably the only reason it won the design award ;)

However, it became apparent that it needed extra development, which BMW pulled the plug on.
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Markie

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Re: Rover K series
« Reply #25 on: 02 February 2008, 10:58:16 »

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that pipe is bolted to the block by two 8mm headed bolts your leak will be around one of these bolt hole brackets................. ;)
Yes, that was what I was expecting. But I can't find any wet there.  Guess I need to take it off and visually inspect.  I'm guessing I need to take intake manifold off?

Yep, inlet of, it pretty easy - as usual with cars some pesky to get to bolts....

I will take that pic, when i can get into garage - its frozen over...

Oh and i probably have  some pare parts around there - so if you identify the issue drop me a pm  :y
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Re: Rover K series
« Reply #26 on: 02 February 2008, 11:13:13 »

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every  k series i have ever seen has the stat bolted behind the waterpump housing? (in line 4). since  1989 when introduced i have never seen a liner move! . have seen a few bent con rods and pistons, the good thing is you just replace the damaged liner (£25)  agreed the engine in it self does put out quite a lot of power and does rev!! hence the kit car boys liking them.  god knows how but the design won the queens award to industry in 1991!!  but still the head gaskets go......
Agreed, it needed further development to overcome its issues.  However, BMW were trying to milk Rover, hence no development money went in (to anything until too late).  Obviously, Powertrain had no money to develop after the BMW sell-off, so the lump never got the development it badly needed.


You cant blame BMW for this one...........the K series pre-dates BMW by many years..............it should NEVER have been released as it was but, Rover were desperate.......they were still mainly using the naff A and B series engines!
Yes, Rover design through and through. Probably the only reason it won the design award ;)

However, it became apparent that it needed extra development, which BMW pulled the plug on.

Er no.....Rover brought it into use to soon....it should never have reached the market in the guise its in.

Its yet another example of why Rover is no more.....no continual development, half cocked attempts at catchup.........all adds up to bye bye Rover.

They are the route cause of thier own demise.
« Last Edit: 02 February 2008, 11:13:39 by Mark »
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motmann

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Re: Rover K series
« Reply #27 on: 02 February 2008, 14:49:50 »

you can get the coolant pipe off without removing the  inlet manifold but it needs to go up in the air on a ramp?  ps . we have been using the new "shim" type head gasket for about 12mths now and we have yet to have one fail.................. :question
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TheBoy

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Re: Rover K series
« Reply #28 on: 02 February 2008, 23:38:56 »

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every  k series i have ever seen has the stat bolted behind the waterpump housing? (in line 4). since  1989 when introduced i have never seen a liner move! . have seen a few bent con rods and pistons, the good thing is you just replace the damaged liner (£25)  agreed the engine in it self does put out quite a lot of power and does rev!! hence the kit car boys liking them.  god knows how but the design won the queens award to industry in 1991!!  but still the head gaskets go......
Agreed, it needed further development to overcome its issues.  However, BMW were trying to milk Rover, hence no development money went in (to anything until too late).  Obviously, Powertrain had no money to develop after the BMW sell-off, so the lump never got the development it badly needed.


You cant blame BMW for this one...........the K series pre-dates BMW by many years..............it should NEVER have been released as it was but, Rover were desperate.......they were still mainly using the naff A and B series engines!
Yes, Rover design through and through. Probably the only reason it won the design award ;)

However, it became apparent that it needed extra development, which BMW pulled the plug on.

Er no.....Rover brought it into use to soon....it should never have reached the market in the guise its in.

Its yet another example of why Rover is no more.....no continual development, half cocked attempts at catchup.........all adds up to bye bye Rover.

They are the route cause of thier own demise.
If you are talking about the old school Austen/BL Rover, then yes, you are of course absolutely correct. Release junk thinking everyone would buy whatever.

However if you are talking the later Aerospace era, esp during the tie in with Honda, a very different mentality came in to the company at the management level. Rover were heading in the right direction when partnered by Honda, and became profitable, even cited as a serious competitor to BMW.  Development was happening, mainly in partnership with Honda.  The BMW buyout meant the Honda partnership halted fairly abruptly, and with no further money to replace the 'lost' development capabilities was the big nail.  It would appear BMW had no real interest in Rover, they were interested in knowledge (mass production knowledge and 4x4  technology).  Remember, although the figures have never been released, BMW made a decent profit from the Rover saga.  The 75 was the only new car released in this time was the 75.  The other cars, BMW retained and morphed in to what we now know as the BMW 1 Series.  Obviously the Mini became the BMW Mini.  Any capital investment went in to the sites that BMW kept after the sell off - Oxford, Swindon, and the engine plant where the K was made. This is from people involved during this period.

In the specific case of the K, I am told no specific problems were found during the testing phase of the engine.  The engine is basically sound with the exception of the HG issue.  It became apparent by early 90s that the HG was failing.  BMW cut K series development pretty much straight away.  The only engine with any BMW money was the (good in its day) 2.0l diesel.  The K desperately needed some work to overcome its flaw, and the people involved thought it would be fairly simple fix it (but would involve retooling to modify the block).

Even after the sell-off, when BMW owned the K series (before selling back to Phoenix later), no further development was done. The BMW Mini was designed to use this power plant (before changing (Chrysler?) for 'non technical' reasons).
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TheBoy

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Re: Rover K series
« Reply #29 on: 02 February 2008, 23:40:30 »

Of course, BL/Rover/BMW/Phoenix biggest problem always was Longbridge.  Whilst that place was open, build quality and productivity was always going to be an issue.
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