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[JamesV6CDX]

Going back some while, I broke up a Meega, and sold a variety of bits on ebay, with all the auctions ending on the same day.

I posted the goods promptly to the various buyers, but made a really dozy mistake, and completely overlooked the guy that had bought one particular part.

He opened a paypal dispute, and as soon as I realised what happened, I instantly posted the item, provided the tracking information (to the buyer and Paypal).. and sincerely apologised to the buyer. I thought no more of it.

The buyer later confirmed reciept of the goods, and I thought that the situation had then been resolved.

Tonight, I recieve an email from Paypal. "Dear sir, we have investigated complaint blah... and have decided in the buyers favour. Therefore £xxx has been debited from your account, to the buyers. You now must pay your "negative balance".

SO - whilst I hold up my hand to messing up on postage, at the moment it would seem that the buyer has got the goods for absolutely free....

Do paypal really have the right to take money from me in this manner?

Strange thing is, I even provided tracking informatin to paypal, incl screen shots from the DHL website proving the buyer had signed for the goods. Yet they didn't even take this into consideration  :-/

We are only talking just under £40, and I agree due to my oversight I took several days to sent the item.. so I don't have any problem with compensating the buyer for this..

My problem is with Paypal, do they really have the "Power" to take money from me like that, when I have proved the goods have been delivered? As it stands, Technically, the "buyer" has recieved these goods for absolutely free, incl postage !!!

I'm happy to consider this a punishment for sending the item late, but.. I just wondered, if this was a much higher amount of cash.. it seems Paypal are "policing" transactions they know little about  :-/

[MaxV6]

issue a complaint against paypal for theft.

assuming you have kept all that information and stuff, you have the evidence...

nail them.

[Jay w]

speak to paypal customer service on this.

Explain that you have supplied the goods and that you have shipping info, offer to re-submit the info.

If they refuse to stand down then advise them that your next action is to go to the local courts to reclaim your losses as you are now out of pocket and have no goods.

Paypal are bas***** for doing this and i hate having to deal with them, they think they have the power of god over people.

as a final alternative you could threaten to go to the FSA as they are regulated by them and have to operate within their guidlines

good luck mate

[Martin_1962]

This is theft so call the Police - they wil work at it.

[dbug]

This is theft so call the Police - they wil work at it.

Agreed - i had this with paypal for £250 - mention of the need for them to co-operate with the police got the money straight back into my account.  In my case the chargeback was because the buyer complained of fraudulent use of his credit card - he had done the same trick with 5 other sellers - all of whom got their money back after i contacted them!  Easy to check out issues like this thro' feedback!
Good luck

[Danny]

paypal are exactly as described... barstewards

they dont listen to reason, and if you disagree with them, they block your account, then close your account, and constantly bug you to clear the negative balance they force up on you

the thing is, by putting your account in a negative balance, they havent actually taken your money yet, until you restore the balance so theft hasnt actually taken place. if you restore the balance, the police would see it that you willingly paid

[Timbuk]

It might be a simple case that the buyer did not close the dispute, or indeed you did not  ask for it to be done, contact him if you can and also supply the relavant info to Paypal

[Bacon Butty Man]

www.paypalstinks.com  

[TheBoy]

Hopefully you have kept all the tracking info (I do for 1 year), then its easy to get paypal to refund.  You can ask paypal to investigate, but costs £25 iirc.

[JamesV6CDX]

I have all the tracking info and proof of delivery.... I will certainly not be paying them to investigate their own cockup!!

Info was submitted before they even did this, which means they can't have even looked at it  

[zirk]

A couple of years back I sold a Cat 5e tester on ebay, some guy bought it in italy £650 + Parcel Force (Tracked), payed by PayPal, cleared funds, no Probs.

Sent the item and provided the Tracking details to this Guy, a few days later He reported to PayPal that he had not recieved the item (PayPal dispute), I tracked the parcel and it was sitting at hes local Post Office in Italy (or what ever their called over there), with a note saying unable to deliver / collection Note pushed through door.

I informed PayPay with this and all the Parcel Force details and re email the buyer.

After a few days the Tracking keep showing up as 2nd and 3rd time unable to del / waiting for collection.

It wasn't long after that PayPal refunded the Guys money in full leaving my PP account seriously overdrawn and the Guy collected the item the same morning that he got he's refund!

I went into headless chicken mode with PayPal only to be told the dispute is now closed and even got a warning from them. The outcome was I told PayPal where to shove it, was out of pocket, never used them since and yes I did have Balliff letters 6 months later which I ended up paying (bit by bit).  

And I coudn't even claim on Parcel Force insurance as the item was collected!

[ians]

Play it straight James - no emotion, just the facts - and keep a written record of your communications.    If you start of with 'Clearly there has been some confusion..' ,  you can always escalate it later if they don't behave reasonably.

Did you resolve things amicably with the buyer?   Do you have his confirmation of receipt in writing (or ebay feedback from him?).  Provide this to them again.

Everyone makes mistakes but they should be prepared to review what appears to be an obvious error.

Cheers,
Ian

[DaveyDavey]

Paypal is a thieving barsteward of a company, James in your position I would make as much noise as possible about it given the situation.

That would include a formal complaint to them and if they don't refund the money (Plus I'd require a distress and inconvenience payment for the trouble) then report them to the Financial Ombudsman Service. I'd also email the BBC Watchdog programme as well, beause Paypal do this sort of thing with frightening regularity.

The contractual obligations that you had as a seller were fulfilled as you can proove that the item you sent was received - DHL will be able to provide a signature. If Paypal have debited your account, when you can proove that you have fulfilled all legal obligations, that is theft.

Paypal's complaints procedure is deliberately difficult, to dissuade potential complainants. I've been stung a couple of times before by sellers who have falsely advertised their goods (the saving grace being I was only £20 out of pocket). I gave Ebay/Paypal more than enough evidence to proove that I had been conned but they never did anything about it - They had received their fees for handling the transaction and couldn't care less. I'd spent a number of hours trying to sort everything out and eventually gave up as it was a waste of my time to reclaim £20  

In this instance I think you have an airtight case James, stick to your guns.

[TheBoy]

In fairness to Paypal - Scum of the Earth - I have found they appear to be much more responsible lately.  Probably due to opening European offices, and slowly having to respect Euro law....

Thats my experience, anyway....

[Martin_1962]

A couple of years back I sold a Cat 5e tester on ebay, some guy bought it in italy £650 + Parcel Force (Tracked), payed by PayPal, cleared funds, no Probs.

Sent the item and provided the Tracking details to this Guy, a few days later He reported to PayPal that he had not recieved the item (PayPal dispute), I tracked the parcel and it was sitting at hes local Post Office in Italy (or what ever their called over there), with a note saying unable to deliver / collection Note pushed through door.

I informed PayPay with this and all the Parcel Force details and re email the buyer.

After a few days the Tracking keep showing up as 2nd and 3rd time unable to del / waiting for collection.

It wasn't long after that PayPal refunded the Guys money in full leaving my PP account seriously overdrawn and the Guy collected the item the same morning that he got he's refund!

I went into headless chicken mode with PayPal only to be told the dispute is now closed and even got a warning from them. The outcome was I told PayPal where to shove it, was out of pocket, never used them since and yes I did have Balliff letters 6 months later which I ended up paying (bit by bit).  

And I coudn't even claim on Parcel Force insurance as the item was collected!

Worth a trip to Italy I think