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[albitz]

Read my post above. .............Im not convinced they should have done it tbh.We were told that the alternative was armageddon.
It may yet turn out that armageddon was just delayed by a few years.The mess we are in now doesnt exactly bode well for state interference in the markets or economic matters in general.
And lets not forget that politicians ,here and in the U.S played no small part in steering the banks in the direction which put them in the situation of "going tits up".

[cem_devecioglu]

Its still a matter of debate among capitalists whether or not the govts. should have got involved in bailouts etc.Cem. Its done now,so no point wondering what might have happened if they had taken the other route.
I dont know where this place is where socialism is currently working ? It failed in USSR,China,Cuba - where else is left ? 
If you worked in a bodyshop as a highly skilled paint sprayer earning,say £500 per week and there was a guy who sweeps the floor and makes the coffee who earns £150 per week,would you be happy for the govt. to decide that you both earn £325 per week ? 

socialism doesnt say everyone must got the same salary.. this is also not true for those socialist countries..   
 
its an old horror story and I hope you also dont believe it.. 
 
another factor is that these 3 countries still on feet without any external credit or other help.. but from these it may be interesting to know USA is in credit to China 1.2 trillion US$
 
ps: I called them as socialist countries but the level of them varies and I can say they are still far from perfect..

[Varche]

Well we haven't learnt much new.

A bit of drift onto socialism, capitalism.

I was really just highlighting the fact that a few hyperactive spotty oiks with six or more computer screens each to look at are making judgements which have far reaching and profound effects on us ordinary people in the country that they have targeted for the day/week/year . Sure they will make money for their company and thus bonuses. BUT no one is actually regulating the rates of interest that they decided to charge. How does charging 7% interest today(15th Nov) help the people of Spain get back onto their feet? It doesn't. If they charge 8% on new loans to Spain tomorrow will that help? I don't think so for a minute.

For a highly regulated world that we live in in the West (can't smoke while driving, can't this that and the other) it seems bizarre that even the politicians have no control over these so called money markets. Maybe the loans to countries should be capped at RPI minus 3% like they did to companies like BT a few years back!!!   After all some return on investment is better than the haircut milarky i.e. writing off the loan.

[cem_devecioglu]

Well we haven't learnt much new.

A bit of drift onto socialism, capitalism.

I was really just highlighting the fact that a few hyperactive spotty oiks with six or more computer screens each to look at are making judgements which have far reaching and profound effects on us ordinary people in the country that they have targeted for the day/week/year . Sure they will make money for their company and thus bonuses. BUT no one is actually regulating the rates of interest that they decided to charge. How does charging 7% interest today(15th Nov) help the people of Spain get back onto their feet? It doesn't. If they charge 8% on new loans to Spain tomorrow will that help? I don't think so for a minute.

For a highly regulated world that we live in in the West (can't smoke while driving, can't this that and the other) ** it seems bizarre that even the politicians have no control over these so called money markets. Maybe the loans to countries should be capped at RPI minus 3% like they did to companies like BT a few years back!!!   After all some return on investment is better than the haircut milarky i.e. writing off the loan.

definitely politicians have no role on markets ..  they are nothing more than an actor on a game written by olympos..

[Johnny English]

Thats the thing Den.Capitalism is far from perfect.Its been very imperfect recently,but if the alternative is socialism - its a no brainer imo.

Yes, I'm inclined to agree with you son,  it's very easy to bitch about the present arrangements and where we presently sit but in reality, there's little to adopt as an alternative at the moment.

I'm living in a post-socialst country, remember well to the time of socialism when I got my profession. Everybody had a job but nobody did anything, everybody complained despite of their acceptable salary, we had some banana from Cuba but that's quantity was strictly limited...There was a lot of millionars although talking about them could be just whisperly.(Party funktioners/officers) Socialism - marxism maybe good ideology but only in case of professional leadership, the collapse of kommunism/socialism was expectable so it was led by selfish idiots. And back to now, who lead the banks and rating agencies? Selfish idiots as well, crisis made by banks and wasn't precognised by rating agencies. The circle is closed.

[cem_devecioglu]

http://dunya.milliyet.com.tr/abd-de-protestocular-ulke-genelinde-yuruyuste/dunya/dunyadetay/18.11.2011/1464421/default.htm
 
 
please look in the picture and tell me there is democracy
 
ps: I forgot to say this is USA..

[Entwood]

http://dunya.milliyet.com.tr/abd-de-protestocular-ulke-genelinde-yuruyuste/dunya/dunyadetay/18.11.2011/1464421/default.htm
 
 
please look in the picture and tell me there is democracy
 
ps: I forgot to say this is USA..

yup .. Democracy in action ....  the MAJORITY (thats what democracy is about) want nothing to do with the MINORITY of rabble rousers.

If more attention was paid to the majority opinion instead of the "vocal minorities" then half the political stupidity would vanish. One of the main problems with modern politics is that a very few "vocal minorities" are given far to much power in order that another party can keep power.

Politicians then listen to these idiotic minorities and give them even more power

[cem_devecioglu]

http://dunya.milliyet.com.tr/abd-de-protestocular-ulke-genelinde-yuruyuste/dunya/dunyadetay/18.11.2011/1464421/default.htm
 
 
please look in the picture and tell me there is democracy
 
ps: I forgot to say this is USA..

yup .. Democracy in action ....  the MAJORITY (thats what democracy is about) want nothing to do with the MINORITY of rabble rousers.

If more attention was paid to the majority opinion instead of the "vocal minorities" then half the political stupidity would vanish. One of the main problems with modern politics is that a very few "vocal minorities" are given far to much power in order that another party can keep power.

Politicians then listen to these idiotic minorities and give them even more power

if you have checked the other pictures , the police force (govt force) dont seem to know what is democracy
 
http://www.milliyet.com.tr/Dunya/SonDakika.aspx?aType=SonDakikaGaleri&ArticleID=1464421&PAGE=4
 

[Nickbat]

http://dunya.milliyet.com.tr/abd-de-protestocular-ulke-genelinde-yuruyuste/dunya/dunyadetay/18.11.2011/1464421/default.htm
 
 
please look in the picture and tell me there is democracy
 
ps: I forgot to say this is USA..

"There have been multiple incidents of assault, drug dealing and drug use, rape and attempted rape, according to conversations with numerous protesters. And the problem, they say, is getting worse.

In the past several weeks, the cluster of tents at the west end of the park -- the farthest section from the bustle of working groups and activity near Broadway -- has grown increasingly dangerous, many say. The sanitation team has reported finding needles in tents, and reports of crack and crystal meth use have surfaced. But the most serious concern most protesters say, is the risk of assault, especially for women and at night."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/01/occupy-wall-street-security_n_1069597.html

(The Huffington Post is a left-leaning newspaper)

This has nothing to with democracy/lack of democracy. The vast majority of people wish to go about their business without hindrance, as is their democratic right. Same situation outside St Paul's. These people have had their say..now it's time to [them] move on. 

[Varche]

http://dunya.milliyet.com.tr/abd-de-protestocular-ulke-genelinde-yuruyuste/dunya/dunyadetay/18.11.2011/1464421/default.htm
 
 
please look in the picture and tell me there is democracy
 
ps: I forgot to say this is USA..

yup .. Democracy in action ....  the MAJORITY (thats what democracy is about) want nothing to do with the MINORITY of rabble rousers.

If more attention was paid to the majority opinion instead of the "vocal minorities" then half the political stupidity would vanish. One of the main problems with modern politics is that a very few "vocal minorities" are given far to much power in order that another party can keep power.

Politicians then listen to these idiotic minorities and give them even more power

Agreed to a point but successful protests have to start somewhere as a minority. Womens rights, Greenham Common (for those too young to know - against Britain becoming a nuclear missile launching site for the USA and thus a prime target). Better that people can protest than to be beaten to death for daring to go out in the street (Yemen).

As I have said before, I think the Times Square and St Pauls protests against bankers having too much power to ruin whole countries have merit. Sadly the execution of the protests leaves a lot to be desired. Maybe people (drones) don't care anymore and are happy to go back to their creature comforts and 100 channels of pap each night. Maybe they are right and that is the new order..............

[cem_devecioglu]

http://dunya.milliyet.com.tr/abd-de-protestocular-ulke-genelinde-yuruyuste/dunya/dunyadetay/18.11.2011/1464421/default.htm
 
 
please look in the picture and tell me there is democracy
 
ps: I forgot to say this is USA..

"There have been multiple incidents of assault, drug dealing and drug use, rape and attempted rape, according to conversations with numerous protesters. And the problem, they say, is getting worse.

In the past several weeks, the cluster of tents at the west end of the park -- the farthest section from the bustle of working groups and activity near Broadway -- has grown increasingly dangerous, many say. The sanitation team has reported finding needles in tents, and reports of crack and crystal meth use have surfaced. But the most serious concern most protesters say, is the risk of assault, especially for women and at night."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/01/occupy-wall-street-security_n_1069597.html

(The Huffington Post is a left-leaning newspaper)

This has nothing to with democracy/lack of democracy. The vast majority of people wish to go about their business without hindrance, as is their democratic right. Same situation outside St Paul's. These people have had their say..now it's time to [them] move on. 

Nick , seems like you are missing the main subject , why those poeple are there.. because they are jobless..and protesting the govt..
 
and if someone finds drugs, meths or injectors in those tents , blame the capitalism, not them..
 
as I told in another thread, if you ban cigarette smoking in public and you know its dangerous why you dont stop producing it in the first place...
 
apart from that,  the media news about those people reminded me that the news about Gaddafi after his death.. nearly every day one woman come into media and says "I was innocent he raped me.. "
        rather idiots , think 7 billion on earth is stupid and they are the only clever people..
 
then why the hell , all those west presidents, ministers was posing to tvs with him , kissing him in front of everyone.. the intelligencies didnt tell them ? 
 
sorry but I'm enough full with biased media lies and cant eat more
 
 
plus
 
can you tell me the reason why there are (in US) only 2 rightwing parties which are nearly a mirror copy of each other ? is this democracy
 
besides can you tell me why a big powerful nation that is said to have freedom even cant print its own money ?
 
and why on earth the presidents**************** censored as it will create trouble for forum!

ps: and do you know how many Americans go to bed with an empty stomach every night ?
 
 

[Johnny English]

This has nothing to with democracy/lack of democracy.

and why on earth the presidents**************** censored as it will create trouble for forum!

Democracy like this above. We are just talking about that but don't understand it's real meaning...I'm sure nobody want to hurt here neither anybody nor the OOF!  Cem, what have you written... Think again and rewrite in an other form. Very interesting what you say!  I would wonder whether if rating agencies why weren't able to forecast the crisis. Maybe there is no really diference among banks and agencies? Right and left hand of the same group?