Topic: Oil Sump plug Shredded (Read 4023 times)

Alex W · « **on:** 05 October 2010, 17:41:07 »

Trying to do an engine oil change today, sump plug wouldn't budge. I was using the correct torx bit but it has still completely shredded the sump plug (they must be made of blancmange).

Anyone got any ideas about how to get it out now?

Thanks in advance.

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #1 on:** 05 October 2010, 18:20:51 »

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Trying to do an engine oil change today, sump plug wouldn't budge. I was using the correct torx bit but it has still completely shredded the sump plug (they must be made of blancmange).

Anyone got any ideas about how to get it out now?

Thanks in advance.

Quite the contary, the fault will be due to:

A spanner wielding monkey has overtightened it!

You could try mole grips on the outside

Andy B · « **Reply #2 on:** 05 October 2010, 18:44:23 »

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....

Anyone got any ideas about how to get it out now?

Thanks in advance.

A new lower sump pan is around £35. plus a tube of grey glue/instant gasket if need be.

unclelicklug · « **Reply #3 on:** 05 October 2010, 20:21:30 »

If you're prepared to drop the sump I guess you can relatively easily remove the old plug - drill it through and then use an Easy Out.

If you were badly pushed you could try in situ but there's high risk (certainty) of drilling waste going into the sump.

I think garages used to do an oil change with a pipe down the dipstick tube and suction to pull oil out - probably won't get a good change as there'll be plenty of cr*p left in the sump, but better than nothing for now..

Andy B · « **Reply #4 on:** 05 October 2010, 20:28:36 »

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......

I think garages used to do an oil change with a pipe down the dipstick tube and suction to pull oil out - probably won't get a good change as there'll be plenty of cr*p left in the sump, but better than nothing for now..

This is how you do a Smart's oil change as Merc saved a couple of quid by not fitting a sump drain plug. :-? :-? :-?

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #5 on:** 05 October 2010, 20:56:50 »

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Quote
......

I think garages used to do an oil change with a pipe down the dipstick tube and suction to pull oil out - probably won't get a good change as there'll be plenty of cr*p left in the sump, but better than nothing for now..

This is how you do a Smart's oil change as Merc saved a couple of quid by not fitting a sump drain plug. :-? :-? :-?

I thought they just did them the same as a mower and turned them on there side until the old oil came out of the filler

unclelicklug · « **Reply #6 on:** 05 October 2010, 21:03:48 »

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Quote
Quote
......

I think garages used to do an oil change with a pipe down the dipstick tube and suction to pull oil out - probably won't get a good change as there'll be plenty of cr*p left in the sump, but better than nothing for now..

This is how you do a Smart's oil change as Merc saved a couple of quid by not fitting a sump drain plug. :-? :-? :-?

I thought they just did them the same as a mower and turned them on there side until the old oil came out of the filler

LOL - maybe that's where all that trouble with the elk test started

Bent valve · « **Reply #7 on:** 05 October 2010, 22:09:43 »

You need a small stilson wrench.

osealy · « **Reply #8 on:** 05 October 2010, 22:34:46 »

Buy a pump. Best thing I ever did.Don't know where the filter is on a V6 but I dont even have to go under the car anymore, 114-200k mls & no issues.

Brikhead · « **Reply #9 on:** 05 October 2010, 22:38:37 »

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Buy a pump. Best thing I ever did.Don't know where the filter is on a V6 but I dont even have to go under the car anymore, 114-200k mls & no issues.

Eventually the oil filter will break down into little pieces and float around your engine... I've seen it happen with element type filters.

aaronjb · « **Reply #10 on:** 05 October 2010, 22:45:01 »

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Buy a pump. Best thing I ever did.Don't know where the filter is on a V6 but I dont even have to go under the car anymore, 114-200k mls & no issues.

Eventually the oil filter will break down into little pieces and float around your engine... I've seen it happen with element type filters.

I think he meant he doesn't know where the filter is on a V6 - and therefore whether the OP would still need to get under the car to change the filter - but on the TD he doesn't as it's all accessible from the top... not that he doesn't change the filter ever

osealy · « **Reply #11 on:** 05 October 2010, 22:48:16 »

Td gets filter changed 4-5K, why would it break down ? I only refer to seized bung. The threads usualy give up on high mile td's due to shorter oil changes.

Cliffo B · « **Reply #12 on:** 05 October 2010, 22:53:12 »

As already said use stilsons (newish ones with sharp teeth) on outer edge,luckily theres lots of room to work.

geoffr70 · « **Reply #13 on:** 05 October 2010, 23:42:23 »

How about trying to carefully file the plug to make it square enough for a socket/spanner/stilsons to get a bite? Or you could try and hammer on a torx bit slightly too big, then trying to undo it with breaker bar, worked for me. Be careful with the threads though.

dbug · « **Reply #14 on:** 06 October 2010, 02:02:51 »

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As already said use stilsons (newish ones with sharp teeth) on outer edge,luckily theres lots of room to work.

Alex W · « **Reply #15 on:** 06 October 2010, 10:01:03 »

Thanks everyone. I have tried using stilsons but the plug edges are so thin they just kept slipping off but maybe if I can file a flat edge as suggested above...

Looks like I have a couple of options:

1.) Buy one of those Sealey Oil pumps and take the oil out from the top, they're about £60

2.) Bin the whole sump and but a new one, £35 (I suppose a new sump plug will be extra) I don't really fancy trying to get the sump off under the car when its full of oil I can see where that will end up.

3.) Go and buy a new sump plug (I need one anyway) and spend a delightful time persevering with the stilsons.

4.) I do have an impact screwdriver, but I suppose hammering on that would damage the sump or plug threads so I'm back to option 2.

5.) Take the car to a local garage (The one that over tightened the plug in the first place and admit defeat.

Oh, the joys of motoring!

Andy B · « **Reply #16 on:** 06 October 2010, 11:07:52 »

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....

2.) Bin the whole sump and but a new one, £35 (I suppose a new sump plug will be extra) I don't really fancy trying to get the sump off under the car when its full of oil I can see where that will end up. .......

A new pan comes complete with a new plug ..... which is why I have a spare.

You could always stick a screw driver in it to drain the old oil.

swiss · « **Reply #17 on:** 06 October 2010, 11:15:48 »

Take a hammer and chisel to the plug, I'm a marine engineer and we like to 'preserve' our nice cheap mild steel gear with salt water. Often a chisel is the only way to get a nut undone

Question: where does one go to get a new pan? I asked breakers about a scrap one and they were asking 70+ squids.

Andy B · « **Reply #18 on:** 06 October 2010, 11:20:21 »

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......
Question: where does one go to get a new pan? I asked breakers about a scrap one and they were asking 70+ squids.

Vauxhall

robson · « **Reply #19 on:** 06 October 2010, 11:39:44 »

How about getting someone to weld a bar or nut onto the plug. If mig weld probably needs some items on car disconnecting

swiss · « **Reply #20 on:** 06 October 2010, 11:40:04 »

My local stealer is asking £291 for the pan plus the price of the gasket :|

unclelicklug · « **Reply #21 on:** 06 October 2010, 11:42:48 »

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How about getting someone to weld a bar or nut onto the plug. If mig weld probably needs some items on car disconnecting

And keep in mind the fire risk!!!

duggs · « **Reply #22 on:** 06 October 2010, 14:26:56 »

Simplest way, although could be a bit messy.

Suggest it might not be the plug....might be thread of pan.

TRY to suck as much of the oil as possible out of the dip stick hole. Remove bottom of pan THEN weld a steel nut, same size as sump plug to the INSIDE of the pan. Complete a weld where nut meets pan to seal and then refit.

Odds are you'll not have ther problem ever again. Steel nut will be a lot stronger than the sump.

swiss · « **Reply #23 on:** 07 October 2010, 12:21:27 »

Certainly with mine it's the thread on the pan drain that's chewed to buggery, I was lucky to get the plug back in there last time...

Once again, if anyone can point me at exactly where I can get a new pan for 35 quid I'd be grateful, my dealer is asking quite a bit more...

Andy B · « **Reply #24 on:** 07 October 2010, 16:21:59 »

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Once again, if anyone can point me at exactly where I can get a new pan for 35 quid I'd be grateful, my dealer is asking quite a bit more...

Just looked at your car ..... it's a diseasal

I oringinally looked at Alex's car - a V6

I din't look at what you drive. Sorry! No idea about diseasals

swiss · « **Reply #25 on:** 07 October 2010, 16:25:24 »

Bah, and I got my hopes up and everything

I do like the idea of welding a nut*, if I only I could persuade the missus to spend some money on fixing the oil leak instead of shoes and perfume...

*insert smut here

unclelicklug · « **Reply #26 on:** 07 October 2010, 16:57:23 »

Try a 'wanted' ad, I think there's one or two people breaking Omegas on the forum - if you don't have enough posts just post as a topic in General forum and a kind mod or admin will be along to move it to wanted before long...

swiss · « **Reply #27 on:** 07 October 2010, 20:55:39 »

Good thinking Batman!

Hey look, my post count went up by one! 8-)

unclelicklug · « **Reply #28 on:** 07 October 2010, 23:12:42 »

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Good thinking Batman!

Hey look, my post count went up by one! 8-)

Every little helps...

Jimbob · « **Reply #29 on:** 08 October 2010, 07:07:36 »

anyone can place a wanted ad in the test zone and I will move it, it sales threads you cant do

TheBoy · « **Reply #30 on:** 08 October 2010, 10:15:29 »

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Td gets filter changed 4-5K, why would it break down ? I only refer to seized bung. The threads usualy give up on high mile td's due to shorter oil changes.

The threads normally give up on TDs due to the crappy monkey metal sumps that BMW decided to use

TheBoy · « **Reply #31 on:** 08 October 2010, 10:19:42 »

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Certainly with mine it's the thread on the pan drain that's chewed to buggery, I was lucky to get the plug back in there last time...

Once again, if anyone can point me at exactly where I can get a new pan for 35 quid I'd be grateful, my dealer is asking quite a bit more...

The TD sumps are appalling, and cost stupid money. And are a nightmare to change - you either have to lift the engine significantly, or drop the subframe.

Best thing to do with a TD one is to helicoil it.

Marks DTM did my old TD with a spark plug helicoil, and I used a Peugeot sump plug (as it had same thread as the helicoil), the sump never gave me any further problems (even when I ripped the sump plug out at 80mph

)

Malcolm_D · « **Reply #32 on:** 08 October 2010, 12:25:47 »

You have probably tried it but the technique I have always used to slacken nuts, plugs etc in this situation it to use a sharp centre punch on the edge of the offending item and knock it in an anticlockwise direction, the centre punch should create a hole and gain grip while the shock of being hit with a hammer provides the impact hopefully loosening it enough to the use mole grips on it. Worth a try before spending silly money or risking a fire?

swiss · « **Reply #33 on:** 08 October 2010, 15:41:00 »

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And are a nightmare to change - you either have to lift the engine significantly, or drop the subframe.

Oh? I confess I've not looked at it closely, but I'd assumed the sump just dropped off once it was unbolted. From your post I guess the subframe is in the way.

This would explain why one local garage described the operation as 'quite a difficult job' and wanted nearly 300 squids for it >.<

So would it be acceptable to helicoil it with the sump in place? Naturally I'm concerned about swarf ending up inside it and eating the engine's guts...

TheBoy · « **Reply #34 on:** 08 October 2010, 15:45:46 »

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And are a nightmare to change - you either have to lift the engine significantly, or drop the subframe.

Oh? I confess I've not looked at it closely, but I'd assumed the sump just dropped off once it was unbolted. From your post I guess the subframe is in the way.

This would explain why one local garage described the operation as 'quite a difficult job' and wanted nearly 300 squids for it >.<

So would it be acceptable to helicoil it with the sump in place? Naturally I'm concerned about swarf ending up inside it and eating the engine's guts...

Plenty of grease on the tap, will hopefully pick up the swarf. Then drop a couple of pints of oil through it, hopefully flush out any that grease didn't catch.

I personally then did a couple of short oil changes, one after about 100 miles, then again after 250 further miles. But then, apparently, I'm anal....

swiss · « **Reply #35 on:** 08 October 2010, 15:56:16 »

Hmm, wise words methinks. At the moment then that's looking like the most attractive option. Thanks folks for all the advice.

Oh, and I should apologise to the OP for semi-jacking his thread ^-^

Alex W · « **Reply #36 on:** 08 October 2010, 19:42:04 »

No worries

osealy · « **Reply #37 on:** 08 October 2010, 20:12:27 »

See previous post. Use a pump. You Don't have to get under the car to change the oil. 80k mls no problems.

Omegatoy · « **Reply #38 on:** 08 October 2010, 20:15:02 »

how about this?
the easy way to my mind, drill the sumpplug to let the oil out,
then tap a thread in the plug and fit a smaller bolt? no messing changing the sump ten mins to do and it dont matter that the original plug is solid in there cos it dont need to come out again
jm2pw

unclelicklug · « **Reply #39 on:** 08 October 2010, 22:35:37 »

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how about this?
the easy way to my mind, drill the sumpplug to let the oil out,
then tap a thread in the plug and fit a smaller bolt? no messing changing the sump ten mins to do and it dont matter that the original plug is solid in there cos it dont need to come out again
jm2pw

I think you're on to something there...

Shackeng · « **Reply #40 on:** 09 October 2010, 17:56:20 »

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Quote
how about this?
the easy way to my mind, drill the sumpplug to let the oil out,
then tap a thread in the plug and fit a smaller bolt? no messing changing the sump ten mins to do and it dont matter that the original plug is solid in there cos it dont need to come out again
jm2pw

I think you're on to something there...

Or try my fix here: http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1199559682/4#4 of course this does rely on the old plug removal by drilling out with the 12mm drill. HTH

Alex W · « **Reply #41 on:** 09 October 2010, 23:35:57 »

Thanks for all these suggestions everyone.

I'll probably get a pump to get the oil out from above, then remove the sump and get the plug out (somehow)while its on the bench.

Did I mention the oil filter cap feels like its been welded on as well? I let my local garage do the last oil/filter change while it was in for its MOT. Silly boy, never again.

scimmy_man · « **Reply #42 on:** 09 October 2010, 23:43:44 »

did you not try welding a nut on?

I like the idea of drilling and tapping the nut tho.

TheBoy · « **Reply #43 on:** 10 October 2010, 10:19:22 »

Given the cost of V6 sump, I'd forget wasting money on a pump, just knock a hole in sump to drain, then replace sump.

And never let a garage touch it again - that sump plug is something like 20Nm, and the oil cap is around 15Nm...

Seth · « **Reply #44 on:** 10 October 2010, 11:36:00 »

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Td gets filter changed 4-5K, why would it break down ? I only refer to seized bung. The threads usualy give up on high mile td's due to shorter oil changes.
The threads normally give up on TDs due to the crappy monkey metal sumps that BMW decided to use

EXACTLY ........
Gotta drop the subframe off mine soon, and fit a replacement sump off my spare motor.
Not looking forward to this operation, but it's got to be done - 'piece of mind' and all that!

BTW; mine's a very well maintained example with 5k mile oil-changes since new, that now gets 2.5k changes.

RexNoctis · « **Reply #45 on:** 11 October 2010, 11:04:29 »

Yup, I changed the oil on my tractor and found hard bits of metal in the runoff. Wasn't until I tried to tighten the sump plug back up that I realized what they were!

I made a temporary repair with liquid metal as i needed the car running and I knew I would need a new sump anyway. I was hoping the sump pan could be unbolted and slide around the subframe, now I know better. :-(

Will have to spend some proper money, may as well get the sump and wishbones replaced at the same time, roll on payday!

Omegatoy · « **Reply #46 on:** 11 October 2010, 19:03:10 »

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Yup, I changed the oil on my tractor and found hard bits of metal in the runoff. Wasn't until I tried to tighten the sump plug back up that I realized what they were!

I made a temporary repair with liquid metal as i needed the car running and I knew I would need a new sump anyway. I was hoping the sump pan could be unbolted and slide around the subframe, now I know better. :-(

Will have to spend some proper money, may as well get the sump and wishbones replaced at the same time, roll on payday!

if thats the standard sump lug, no need to replace the sump, just drill it to the next size up and retap, i think if i remember correctly its a peugoet sump plug that is the next size up, takes just twenty mins to do as well, changing the sump is a pita job

TheBoy · « **Reply #47 on:** 11 October 2010, 19:42:31 »

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Quote
Yup, I changed the oil on my tractor and found hard bits of metal in the runoff. Wasn't until I tried to tighten the sump plug back up that I realized what they were!

I made a temporary repair with liquid metal as i needed the car running and I knew I would need a new sump anyway. I was hoping the sump pan could be unbolted and slide around the subframe, now I know better. :-(

Will have to spend some proper money, may as well get the sump and wishbones replaced at the same time, roll on payday!

if thats the standard sump lug, no need to replace the sump, just drill it to the next size up and retap, i think if i remember correctly its a peugoet sump plug that is the next size up, takes just twenty mins to do as well, changing the sump is a pita job

Nope, it still strips. Helicoil is only sensible option on the BMW sump

Omegatoy · « **Reply #48 on:** 11 October 2010, 19:58:31 »

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Quote
Quote
Yup, I changed the oil on my tractor and found hard bits of metal in the runoff. Wasn't until I tried to tighten the sump plug back up that I realized what they were!

I made a temporary repair with liquid metal as i needed the car running and I knew I would need a new sump anyway. I was hoping the sump pan could be unbolted and slide around the subframe, now I know better. :-(

Will have to spend some proper money, may as well get the sump and wishbones replaced at the same time, roll on payday!

if thats the standard sump lug, no need to replace the sump, just drill it to the next size up and retap, i think if i remember correctly its a peugoet sump plug that is the next size up, takes just twenty mins to do as well, changing the sump is a pita job
Nope, it still strips. Helicoil is only sensible option on the BMW sump

lol your just a grumpy gorilla!!! my plug is still the original,
even though i welded a 19mm nut to it to make the changing of oil easier when i first got the car!!!

osealy · « **Reply #49 on:** 11 October 2010, 22:15:46 »

Use a pump! The filter should catch the lumps of metal.

Shackeng · « **Reply #50 on:** 24 October 2010, 17:40:42 »

Quote

Quote
Quote
Yup, I changed the oil on my tractor and found hard bits of metal in the runoff. Wasn't until I tried to tighten the sump plug back up that I realized what they were!

I made a temporary repair with liquid metal as i needed the car running and I knew I would need a new sump anyway. I was hoping the sump pan could be unbolted and slide around the subframe, now I know better. :-(

Will have to spend some proper money, may as well get the sump and wishbones replaced at the same time, roll on payday!

if thats the standard sump lug, no need to replace the sump, just drill it to the next size up and retap, i think if i remember correctly its a peugoet sump plug that is the next size up, takes just twenty mins to do as well, changing the sump is a pita job
Nope, it still strips. Helicoil is only sensible option on the BMW sump

Mine hasn't, see my earlier post.

osealy · « **Reply #51 on:** 24 October 2010, 19:14:37 »

PUMP. Oil +filter change 20 mins start-finish & no crawling

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Author Topic: Oil Sump plug Shredded (Read 4023 times)

aaronjb