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[Elite Pete]

Can I replace a faulty Bose CCR 2006 with a CDR 2005 or do you have the same problems with the ohms of the speakers?

TIA

[Kevin Wood]

If the car has a Bose system then the 2005 will need to be coded for Bose using a Tech 2, if it's possible for that model of Head Unit. :-/

Otherwise, the whole Bose setup needs to be replaced with non-Bose.

Kevin

[TheBoy]

cdr2005 does not have a Bose config.

However, it can be fitted with a bose amp, but the volume is fairly uncontrollable at low volume, the tone is slightly off (tweakable with normal bass/treble), distortion at high volume.

I have seen a few like this, due to ccr2006 being a heap of junk (not as bad as cdr2005 though ), and it can work. HOWEVER, you are running outside of its capabilities, and you are running closer to the point of it tuning into channel smoke....

[Kevin Wood]

I guess you could attenuate the signal between head unit and Bose amp to give you normal volume control. :-/ Be a bodge though.

Kevin

[Dave DND]

I guess you could attenuate the signal between head unit and Bose amp to give you normal volume control. :-/ Be a bodge though.

Kevin

Not really, its not just a lower voltage signal thats needed, its a narrower range from low to high.

BOSE equipment only works with BOSE equipment

 

[Kevin Wood]

I guess you could attenuate the signal between head unit and Bose amp to give you normal volume control. :-/ Be a bodge though.

Kevin

Not really, its not just a lower voltage signal thats needed, its a narrower range from low to high.

BOSE equipment only works with BOSE equipment

 

In what respect? Are you saying they compress the dynamic range of the signal?  :-/

Kevin

[zirk]

I guess you could attenuate the signal between head unit and Bose amp to give you normal volume control. :-/ Be a bodge though.

Kevin

Not really, its not just a lower voltage signal thats needed, its a narrower range from low to high.

BOSE equipment only works with BOSE equipment

 

In what respect? Are you saying they compress the dynamic range of the signal?  :-/

Kevin

Think Dave means the Headroom (right levels out to the right levels in, at a given impedance), but having said that, cant see why you cant attenuate the o/p of the HU to a given level and then match the i/p impedance of the amp, assuming you know what they should be.  :-/

[Dave DND]

OK, without getting too technical, imagine  a volume control with numbers from 0 to 10 on it.

O is the lowest volume and 10 is the max volume.
this is what a "normal" head unit gives out.

A bose head unit using the same control would be say 3 to 7  where 3 is the lowest volume and 7 is the max volume.

A non BOSE head unit if connected to a BOSE amp will give no volume when used from 0 to 3
and between 3 and 7 will give no smooth control over the volume
and from 7 to 10 will probably cause it to go bang as it is now being overdriven.

Sooner or later people will listen

YOU CANNOT MIX BOSE WITH NON BOSE EQUIPMENT

[Kevin Wood]

Sooner or later people will listen

YOU CANNOT MIX BOSE WITH NON BOSE EQUIPMENT

I'm listening. I have no intention of ever owning any Bose equipment let alone mixing it with anything else. I just want to understand what's special about what appears at first glance to be a straightforward audio interface from head unit to amp.

Maybe one day I'll chuck a test CD in my CCR2006, set it to Bose and see what comes out of the speaker outs.

Kevin

[Dave DND]

Sooner or later people will listen

YOU CANNOT MIX BOSE WITH NON BOSE EQUIPMENT

I'm listening. I have no intention of ever owning any Bose equipment let alone mixing it with anything else. I just want to understand what's special about what appears at first glance to be a straightforward audio interface from head unit to amp.

Maybe one day I'll chuck a test CD in my CCR2006, set it to Bose and see what comes out of the speaker outs.

Kevin

There is a Porsche / BOSE interface allowing the use of an aftermarket stereo in a 996, that on the face of it "should" work on the Omega, but I am not aware of anyone who has tried it yet.

 :-?

[zirk]

Sooner or later people will listen

YOU CANNOT MIX BOSE WITH NON BOSE EQUIPMENT

Dave, chill man, your gonna burst a blood vessel, its only 11 o'clock, what you going to be like after England Match this afternoon.   

[Jimbob]

Do you mean this Dave?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PC9-408-Autoleads-AUDI-A3-4-6-8-PORSCHE-BOSE-ACTIVE-/290384593089?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Cars_Parts_Vehicles_Terminals_Cabling_ET&hash=item439c4540c1

looks cheap enough to have a play with 

[Marks DTM Calib]

Do you mean this Dave?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PC9-408-Autoleads-AUDI-A3-4-6-8-PORSCHE-BOSE-ACTIVE-/290384593089?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Cars_Parts_Vehicles_Terminals_Cabling_ET&hash=item439c4540c1

looks cheap enough to have a play with 

Well, that cant have anything more than a few R's in it.

I suppose that the bose amp could expect a Linearly controlled amplitude feed where as a standard speaker out is Log.

[Dave DND]

Do you mean this Dave?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PC9-408-Autoleads-AUDI-A3-4-6-8-PORSCHE-BOSE-ACTIVE-/290384593089?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Cars_Parts_Vehicles_Terminals_Cabling_ET&hash=item439c4540c1

looks cheap enough to have a play with 

Yep, thats along the lines of the thing I was looking at - Although Audi units are generally different levels to Porsche (but only "Anoraks" would tell the difference in quality), this BOSE adaptor may actually work as a good compromise - and certainly worth a try, as could solve a real headache in "Oof Land".

 :-/

Dave, chill man, your gonna burst a blood vessel, its only 11 o'clock, what you going to be like after England Match this afternoon.   

Drunk probably !!  But not watching the footie though, there is a high tide at around 4pm, a bucket full of bait, and the beach is a mere 400 yards away on a blisteringly hot sunny afternoon, and as nobody else appears to be working either, I do have a dilemma . . .

A spot of Fishing?, or being Billy No Mates sat here answering yet another boring question about BOSE compatabilities.

    

[zirk]

A spot of Fishing?, or being Billy No Mates sat here answering yet another boring question about BOSE compatabilities.

    

Maybe you should write a book on it,.............. about the fishing I mean.
 

[Dave DND]

Maybe you write a book on it,.............. about the fishing I mean.

No point me writing a book . . Who ever listens to what I write anyway !!

    

[Entwood]

Maybe you write a book on it,.............. about the fishing I mean.

No point me writing a book . . Who ever listens to what I write anyway !!

    

text to speech not installed .... 

 

[Andy H]

Do you mean this Dave?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PC9-408-Autoleads-AUDI-A3-4-6-8-PORSCHE-BOSE-ACTIVE-/290384593089?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Cars_Parts_Vehicles_Terminals_Cabling_ET&hash=item439c4540c1

looks cheap enough to have a play with 

Well, that cant have anything more than a few R's in it.

I suppose that the bose amp could expect a Linearly controlled amplitude feed where as a standard speaker out is Log.

I don't know if this is at all relevant to the Omega/Bose combination but one way of getting maximum output from an audio system running from a restricted (ie 12volt) power supply is to use a pair of amplifiers to drive each speaker in a bridge formation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridged_and_paralleled_amplifiers.

If the Bose amplifier is expecting one wire of each input to be ground and the other to be signal it might get very upset if the 'ground' wire is being driven.

Maybe the Bose setting in Tech 2 turns off one half of the output bridge in a CCR2006  :-/

[VXL V6]

To throw some more fuel on the BOSE / OMEGA bonfire.... What would be better from my point of view would be to keep the NCDC head unit (so everything looks standard to an outsider and the Nav / board computer) but replace the Bose amp and speakers with something of a little higher quality. I know in the chain of Hi-Fi seperates the argument is always to buy the best source units you can and then build outwards from them but it'd be interesting to see what the NCDC units are capable of when coupled to a half decent amp and speakers in a similar way to Kevins modification to a CCR2006.

If I had a car without an NCDC in it to start with I would certainly go down the complete replacement system route 

[Kevin Wood]

To throw some more fuel on the BOSE / OMEGA bonfire.... What would be better from my point of view would be to keep the NCDC head unit (so everything looks standard to an outsider and the Nav / board computer) but replace the Bose amp and speakers with something of a little higher quality. I know in the chain of Hi-Fi seperates the argument is always to buy the best source units you can and then build outwards from them but it'd be interesting to see what the NCDC units are capable of when coupled to a half decent amp and speakers in a similar way to Kevins modification to a CCR2006.

If I had a car without an NCDC in it to start with I would certainly go down the complete replacement system route 

Could have given you a demo at the weekend.

Kevin

[Dave DND]

To throw some more fuel on the BOSE / OMEGA bonfire.... What would be better from my point of view would be to keep the NCDC head unit (so everything looks standard to an outsider and the Nav / board computer) but replace the Bose amp and speakers with something of a little higher quality. I know in the chain of Hi-Fi seperates the argument is always to buy the best source units you can and then build outwards from them but it'd be interesting to see what the NCDC units are capable of when coupled to a half decent amp and speakers in a similar way to Kevins modification to a CCR2006.

If I had a car without an NCDC in it to start with I would certainly go down the complete replacement system route 

You are correct about going for the best source unit you can, but never overlook the speakers either.

The range of Clarion speakers we have on our website appear to be just about perfect for running with OEM head units and can give a significant improvement in sound for those of you wishing to retain the original appearance and functionality - I`m all for that -

But change the bits you can`t see - like the speakers !!!

 

[Shallow Al]

 Can you say which Clarion speakers will go well with a CCR2006, non Bose, that you stock please Dave.
 I am reasonably happy with the sound of it, but would new speakers help it to 'Go up to 11'
 Cheers

[Dave DND]

What size speakers are you after ?

Have a look in or website at the Clarion SRQ and SRE range

These are ideal for any of the Non BOSE OEM vauxhall stereos

Most popular are these

http://www.dndservices.co.uk/srq1720s.html

[zirk]

Do you mean this Dave?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PC9-408-Autoleads-AUDI-A3-4-6-8-PORSCHE-BOSE-ACTIVE-/290384593089?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Cars_Parts_Vehicles_Terminals_Cabling_ET&hash=item439c4540c1

looks cheap enough to have a play with 

Well, that cant have anything more than a few R's in it.

I suppose that the bose amp could expect a Linearly controlled amplitude feed where as a standard speaker out is Log.

I don't know if this is at all relevant to the Omega/Bose combination but one way of getting maximum output from an audio system running from a restricted (ie 12volt) power supply is to use a pair of amplifiers to drive each speaker in a bridge formation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridged_and_paralleled_amplifiers.

If the Bose amplifier is expecting one wire of each input to be ground and the other to be signal it might get very upset if the 'ground' wire is being driven.

Maybe the Bose setting in Tech 2 turns off one half of the output bridge in a CCR2006  :-/

The fact that theres no screened cable connecting the HU to the Bose amp would suggest to me that the amp input is floating earth, ie, balanced input, so along them lines it would make sense just to lower the speaker level from the HU.

[Kevin Wood]

The fact that theres no screened cable connecting the HU to the Bose amp would suggest to me that the amp input is floating earth, ie, balanced input, so along them lines it would make sense just to lower the speaker level from the HU.

From what I've deduced from the innards of the CCR2006  it's still the bridged power amplifier ICs in the 2006 that drive the Bose outputs exactly as if they were still speaker outputs so yes, it's almost certainly a balanced input to the bose amp.

Kevin

[zirk]

From what I've deduced from the innards of the CCR2006  it's still the bridged power amplifier ICs in the 2006 that drive the Bose outputs exactly as if they were still speaker outputs so yes, it's almost certainly a balanced input to the bose amp.

Kevin

Makes sense then Kevin, considering the amps at the back of the Car, a balanced line would give better s/n and line loss compared to a unbalanced link plus it makes it easlier for Bose to just reduce the level.

Have you taken a Bose amp appart yet or played with one?

Chris.

[harpersimon]

Just read this, and wanted to change my head unit on my elite to something with Blutooth etc etc..
but being new, and don't shoot me - are we saying that as I have Bose (cos its written on the rear shelf speakers) I cannot add any other head unit, and would need to change everything?
bugger.

[TheBoy]

Just read this, and wanted to change my head unit on my elite to something with Blutooth etc etc..
but being new, and don't shoot me - are we saying that as I have Bose (cos its written on the rear shelf speakers) I cannot add any other head unit, and would need to change everything?
bugger.

Correct. Everything has to go...

[harpersimon]

Double bugger. Oh well saved me wasting a couple hundred on a unit I was about to buy, but made it more expensive to change anything. Think I will be leaving it all be then :-(

[Kevin Wood]

Have you taken a Bose amp appart yet or played with one?

Chris.

Nope. Never personally had the need to. If anyone's got a spare lying around I'd be happy to do some research though.

Kevin

[Dave DND]

Have you taken a Bose amp appart yet or played with one?

Chris.

Nope. Never personally had the need to. If anyone's got a spare lying around I'd be happy to do some research though.

Kevin

If you do end up researching this, give me a yell and I`ll send over the Porsche adaptor as well for you to play with

 

[VXL V6]

Kevin, I have a spare Bose amp I can loan you to have a nose at.

[Andy H]

The fact that theres no screened cable connecting the HU to the Bose amp would suggest to me that the amp input is floating earth, ie, balanced input, so along them lines it would make sense just to lower the speaker level from the HU.

From what I've deduced from the innards of the CCR2006  it's still the bridged power amplifier ICs in the 2006 that drive the Bose outputs exactly as if they were still speaker outputs so yes, it's almost certainly a balanced input to the bose amp.

Kevin

The Bose loom I have in my 2003 Facelift Elite IS screened from the outputs of the headunit to the Bose amp.

We probably need to be careful of changes that might have occurred to the equipment installed by Bose over the years.

[zirk]

The fact that theres no screened cable connecting the HU to the Bose amp would suggest to me that the amp input is floating earth, ie, balanced input, so along them lines it would make sense just to lower the speaker level from the HU.

From what I've deduced from the innards of the CCR2006  it's still the bridged power amplifier ICs in the 2006 that drive the Bose outputs exactly as if they were still speaker outputs so yes, it's almost certainly a balanced input to the bose amp.

Kevin

The Bose loom I have in my 2003 Facelift Elite IS screened from the outputs of the headunit to the Bose amp.

We probably need to be careful of changes that might have occurred to the equipment installed by Bose over the years.

Andy, are you saying the whole loom is screened or each individual speaker out to amp inputs are screened, if its the latter, can you remember if the speaker link wire was single screened or the speaker pair was twisted then screened?

Chris.

[Andy H]

Andy, are you saying the whole loom is screened or each individual speaker out to amp inputs are screened, if its the latter, can you remember if the speaker link wire was single screened or the speaker pair was twisted then screened?

Chris.

Right, just been and had a look.

The whole loom is loosely bound with sticky tape.

Each of the four signal pairs has a hard sheath over the screen and uses quite heavy cores (heavy for a signal but feeble for a speaker cable). The hard sheath doesn't show whether the pair is twisted or not. My assumption is that it is a twisted pair.

Why is it important whether they are twisted?

HTH

[zirk]

Right, just been and had a look.

The whole loom is loosely bound with sticky tape.

Each of the four signal pairs has a hard sheath over the screen and uses quite heavy cores (heavy for a signal but feeble for a speaker cable). The hard sheath doesn't show whether the pair is twisted or not. My assumption is that it is a twisted pair.

Why is it important whether they are twisted?

HTH

Thanks Andy, not really important as such but just more info that helps to cut out the guess work on Bose’s input and output methods and to help me try and understand why Bose have to do things totally different to every body else on this Planet.

Fairly sure when I played with an early Bose loom (don’t have it anymore), the speaker cables were unscreened, could be wrong. So was wondering if Bose changed their minds in the later models with running screened twisted pair (proper way for balanced audio) for their outputs and inputs, or maybe I just wasn’t paying attention first time round.

    Chris.

[Kevin Wood]

Kevin, I have a spare Bose amp I can loan you to have a nose at.

Sounds good. It might end up on the back burner for a while but sounds like something I can spend a rainy day experimenting with.

If you do end up researching this, give me a yell and I`ll send over the Porsche adaptor as well for you to play with

Thanks, Dave. That would be great.

Kevin

[Andy H]

Right, just been and had a look.

The whole loom is loosely bound with sticky tape.

Each of the four signal pairs has a hard sheath over the screen and uses quite heavy cores (heavy for a signal but feeble for a speaker cable). The hard sheath doesn't show whether the pair is twisted or not. My assumption is that it is a twisted pair.

Why is it important whether they are twisted?

HTH

Thanks Andy, not really important as such but just more info that helps to cut out the guess work on Bose’s input and output methods and to help me try and understand why Bose have to do things totally different to every body else on this Planet.

Fairly sure when I played with an early Bose loom (don’t have it anymore), the speaker cables were unscreened, could be wrong. So was wondering if Bose changed their minds in the later models with running screened twisted pair (proper way for balanced audio) for their outputs and inputs, or maybe I just wasn’t paying attention first time round.

    Chris.

The speaker cables from the Bose amp back to the kick panel are twisted/heavy gauge/ unscreened. It is only the signal cables (from the CCR2006 to the Bose amp) that are screened pairs.

[Andy H]

Some pictures of the Bose connector (and the cables from the HU) in my 2003 Elite.

HTH