Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[steve6367]

I thought I would try a new post as think this may got lost tacked onto the end of my 'strange codes' post.

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=122236.msg1556147#msg1556147

I got the new radiator fitted, but it still runs rough and there are wisps of exhaust gas (based on smell) coming from the expansion tank.

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/o70sbysv77ybtzz/_N52u0sVlh

I assume this is HG? Are there any other tests I should do to be sure before I try and take it apart?

Are there any OOF mechanics down South as not sure the HG is actually within my ability.

Many thanks

Steve

[JamesV6CDX]

Yep, I've done a couple of these HGs lately

Exhaust fumes in header tank is conclusive. Seen this on four 2.2 omegas this year, one being my own!!

It's not a bad job to do, doable in a day leisurely

Where are you located?

[steve6367]

I am in Bournemouth, in Dorset.

Tempted to give it a go, but don't want to just end up with a pile of bits! I have exhaust manifold gaskets and bolts and timing belt kit here.

From your experience should I be getting the head skimed? Or is that ott?

Steve

[steve6367]

Any thoughts on the skim? Some post say you must some say no, but how do I tell once it's off?

[JamesV6CDX]

If its not overheated I've never had to skim one yet

[steve6367]

I've never seen the temp rise over 90c - did about 2 miles after it stopped so hope not 

Assume sunny Bournemouth is too far for you James?

[JamesV6CDX]

Not at all subject to a suitable date, but I would urge you to have a go DIY

[steve6367]

Ok James, I shall attempt to man up and give it a go!

Is this VX only for the parts? Or are there known good others?

Steve

[steve6367]

Any takers on where to get the HG kit from? I've got a couple of days this week so would like to order something today, any of the ebay options any good? Or should I be going to VX with my money?

Many thanks

Steve

[plym ian]

I've always ordered from eBay can't remember how much kits are, but make sure you change head bolts as well or if feeling flush go Vauxhall. Also could be a good time to change cam belt and water pump if it's due

[cd 2.2]

If its not overheated I've never had to skim one yet

I have had experience of 2 HG repairs now, BOTH times the head was warped ... First was 16 thousandths of an inch warped (my own car) and second was 12 thousandths of an inch warped! It's extremely unlikely that an alloy head of any kind would have 0 warp after a HGF due to the nature of the the stresses involved ... My advice is ALWAYS take the head to a good machine shop to get it tested, A full head skim should cost no more than £30 at any reputable place to get done if you strip the head yourself first! !DO NOT HAVE MORE THAN 1MM OF MATERIAL REMOVED!

If a person said to me that they were changing my head gasket but their opinion was that it had no warp, I would seriously worry about how long the job would last and not let them near it  You just can't reliably tell if it is or isn't warped without precision equipment ... "it's not warped I will change the gasket" is just a lazy, corner cutting exercise IMHO   

As much as people will hate me for saying this ... The Elring headset from Euro car parts is quite good (it's what's on my 2.2 that I did in january), Also the head bolts from the same place are good (again fitted to mine and came in an Elring box)! Prices are not to bad I think the head set was around the £45 mark and the head bolts were maybe £25 mark! I used a circoli water pump also from ecp (no issues as of yet with it) around £35 ish??  and a Gates Powergrip timing belt kit from a local independent factors for around £96.50!

It's a straight forward job really but the head bolts are a pain and I would suggest a 2ft breaker bar for taking them out and re-fitting on the angular torque stages (trust me they are tight)! I threw this together when I did the job, It may be of some use to you http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=121234.msg1542242#msg1542242
Take your time with it and it will take no more than 3 days (should only require 2 to be fair) and when you strip your head down don't forget to remove the valve spring seats before you take it in to have it skimmed (They are like small steel washers that sit under the valve springs to stop them eating the alloy head  )

It's a job well worth doing if you intend to keep the car ... loads of 2.2's see the scrappy just because of HGF which is a shame, also don't be surprised if your manifold has a crack in it, this seems to happen when the head gasket goes

[JamesV6CDX]

On the subject of cutting corners, the  circoli water pump is the brand that has by and large been failing on v6 models. And on yours it's Cambelt driven.

Out of interest did you measure the heads alleged distortion yourself, or take the word of a machine shop who have an interest in doing the skimming work?

I have changed numerous v6 and 4 pot head gaskets (which have not overheated) and every one is still going strong.

The mode of failure is through poor coolant maintenance rotting the composite material. This causes corrosion and pitting, but not "stresses" and a failure due to poor coolant maintenance will not cause warpage. (The gasket is the weakest point thus takes any stresses"

How many of these have you done bar your own? Look through my posts and see how many head gaskets I've changed since 2007 on GM engines of many varieties. Many on my own projects.

Incidentally, none to my knowledge have failed again.

[cd 2.2]

Checked for warp myself first (as you do) and the machine shop I use is one I personally trust and have used for years .. It was 100% warped and you could barely tell when you checked it !
If you have had very high success rate of non warped heads then I guess you're lucky, very lucky! I have also changed a head gasket on an Austin princess very recently and in the past many of my own cars including a daewoo nexia 1.5 (made of butter Gm derived engine) .. Several metro's and other rover K series junk (I hate working on those engines), a couple of escort 1.4's and rebuilt an entire fiesta 1.1 pushrod engine! Not to mention the SD1 2600 SE I had about 13 years ago that needed major head work to get it going again and the austin A40 Farina that I rebuilt and got an ancient austin A series engine un seized and running again!
As far as I'm concerned it's "normal" procedure to have a machine shop test and check any cylinder head for warps/cracks when you change the head gasket ... It's how I was taught (and would have been shot if I did otherwise)! I have had very few instances when the head wasn't warped (and this has happened), Just always best to be safe rather than wing it and hope for the best ... How are you checking for warp ?? I would use an engineers rule and feeler gauges on a stripped head myself before sending it to the shop 

[JamesV6CDX]

I'm not disagreeing in terms of checking by a shop is best. Just sharing my experience

If nothing else, we agree re K series!!!

[cd 2.2]

I'm not disagreeing in terms of checking by a shop is best. Just sharing my experience

If nothing else, we agree re K series!!!

Oh yes, wet liners and all. They truly are great when they are good but terrible at every other time 

It's now worrying me about the circoli water pump I fitted  What mileage do they tend to fail at? I have only 2500 on it so far with no upset
I would say along with others (hopefully) that the 2.2 16v is a simple engine to take apart and reassemble, once you get through the electrical gubbins 

[steve6367]

I'm hoping it's going to be simple once I start, not looking simple right now!

I have a new manifold, cambelt kit and water pump (gm).

I just need to order the gasket and bolts, still not sure which to go for.

Steve

[steve6367]

These?

http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/Vauxhall_Omega_2.2_2001/p/car-parts/engine-parts/engine-parts1/car-gasket-seals/?362720710&1&c1cf4aaf58a92136e47aaf0650a49c45e0a541fa&000174

http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/Vauxhall_Omega_2.2_2001/p/car-parts/engine-parts/engine-parts1/head-bolts/?300720131&1&42847d5d1e76499e526941269a90f22edadd95b6&000488

What do you normally use James?

[JamesV6CDX]

Elring for all gaskets except cam cover which must be genuine

With Elring the exhaust manifold gasket is multi layer steel so OE quality

Bear in mind throttle body gaskets aren't included in most kits

[cd 2.2]

Elring for all gaskets except cam cover which must be genuine

With Elring the exhaust manifold gasket is multi layer steel so OE quality

Bear in mind throttle body gaskets aren't included in most kits

have to agree there, Mine leaks with the elring gasket at the front and rear corners ... I'm told it's because of the top being plastic and a smear of sealant in the rocker top before you press the gasket in and a smear on the gasket itself on the side that faces the head surface should stop it leaking (when I say smear I mean very little). I'm interested in how james would do this as I have had little luck sealing fully, I have nasty oil runs where I don't want them and it looks like the bottom end is leaking when it's not 

[steve6367]

I've only recently fitted a new cam cover gasket.

I used VX gasket, washers and sealant following the guide on here and it's not leaked so far 

Steve

[steve6367]

I've started

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5yqpr6qqnp9rvzz/_wIdlOjbL0

Problems so far:

2 x exhaust manifold studs snapped in head - can I solve this? Or does it need to goto a machine shop?

The little clips on the electrical connections to the injectors seemed very brittle and sustained some damage coming off.

More photos to follow.

[badmuver]

Have you look on ebay for stud remover.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOefpJRXfBk found this it might help.

[steve6367]

Unfortunately I don't seem to have much if any stud sticking out, will look more closely in the morning.

Head is off and photos updated:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5yqpr6qqnp9rvzz/_wIdlOjbL0

 

[badmuver]

So how long did it take you to strip it down?

[steve6367]

6 hours, but I was taking my time with plenty of tea   

[badmuver]

Tea is the most important part, when any man is working or we lose concentration (think I spelled it right )  

[steve6367]

Any thoughts on what look like blocked waterways in this photo?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m1qusn58cy1d3uk/SAM_0448.JPG

I never had any overheating problems but they look very restricted. On cleaning up only where the HG is though. I worry this could mean head warped with the temperature having appeared to go high.

Can someone who has done a few tell me if this is normal?

Many thanks

[steve6367]

Any thoughts on what look like blocked waterways in this photo?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m1qusn58cy1d3uk/SAM_0448.JPG

I never had any overheating problems but they look very restricted. On cleaning up only where the HG is though. I worry this could mean head warped with the temperature having appeared to go high.

Can someone who has done a few tell me if this is normal?

Many thanks

Without even

[Kevin Wood]

Any thoughts on what look like blocked waterways in this photo?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m1qusn58cy1d3uk/SAM_0448.JPG

I never had any overheating problems but they look very restricted. On cleaning up only where the HG is though. I worry this could mean head warped with the temperature having appeared to go high.

Can someone who has done a few tell me if this is normal?

Many thanks

What you have to remember is that, whilst you've got a large water jacket area passing from block to head around each cylinder, in the normal case, there will only be small holes in the head gasket to allow coolant flow between them, spaced and sized to give approximately equal cooling to the 4 cylinders.

I think what you are looking at is not a blockage of those passages, but deterioration of the head gasket material that used to cover them with the exception of the small holes in the gasket that are just about visible.

So no, I wouldn't worry. That said, if you are having to take the head to an engineering company to get the studs removed, you might as well ask them to check it for flatness while you're at it.

[steve6367]

Thanks Kevin,

That makes much more sense, the engineering shop I dropped it to this morning said they would 'vacuum test' and 'check it is flat' so hopefully thats it all covered. 

Steve

[Steve B]

 

[steve6367]

So thank you again to everyone here for all the advise 

I am just putting the cams back on and my kit has new oil seals in it, but I can't get the sprockets off so can't see how to change them.

Will the old ones be ok? They didn't leak before I changed the head....

Steve

[Andy H]

A couple of years ago people were reporting that the pattern seals were not as good as their original camshaft seals and so the advice was to re-use the old ones.

I don't know if they were the same make as your new seals or if the advice still stands

I think I took my cam pulleys off (on a V6) by unscrewing the centre bolt 3 or 4 turns then using a 3 jaw puller to press against the centre bolt while rocking the pulley to break bond on the taper.

[steve6367]

A couple of years ago people were reporting that the pattern seals were not as good as their original camshaft seals and so the advice was to re-use the old ones.

I don't know if they were the same make as your new seals or if the advice still stands

I think I took my cam pulleys off (on a V6) by unscrewing the centre bolt 3 or 4 turns then using a 3 jaw puller to press against the centre bolt while rocking the pulley to break bond on the taper.

Thank you - I have left the VX seals in for now. My logic is they were not leaking and if they now start it is not a massive job to get back to them 

Just going to do the cam belt now and then I think it is ready to see if it still works 

[badmuver]

How's is it all going 

[steve6367]

How's is it all going 

All done and working!  (thanks to the forum)

I will pop a few more pics up shortly.

[steve6367]

Head off:



EGR:



EGR back on:



New HG:



Manifold Studs: (new VX now seem to be copper not steel)



Nice and clean:



.0065" reface:



New (thanks Rob  ) manifold back on:



Down Pipe:



New timing belt:



Head bolts:



Total cost aprox £200, so much cheaper than the garage option, I learned a lot and quite enjoyed it. Only really possible using the forum though, if I had not been encouraged the car would be scrap now   

[steve6367]

Oh and must thank the cat too, could not have done it without his face / paws / hair in everything!

[Andy H]

Excellent

Something I always forget is how difficult it is to find anything that gets dropped on grass or gravel. I try to put a sheet of ply or plastic under the working area if I do have to work over gravel but I inevitably forget and drop something then end up spending 20 minutes searching for the missing screw/nut/washer 

[badmuver]

Looking good 

[steve6367]

Excellent

Something I always forget is how difficult it is to find anything that gets dropped on grass or gravel. I try to put a sheet of ply or plastic under the working area if I do have to work over gravel but I inevitably forget and drop something then end up spending 20 minutes searching for the missing screw/nut/washer 

Yep, I lost one of the crank pulley bolts - I watched it fall but could not find it despite an hour spent! Gave up and got another from scrap yard, so I ve learned that lesson.

[omega3000]

Well done mate  Brings back memories of when my 4 pot head was done and we worked outside in the rain 

[effinomega]

Steve

Did you have to take the valves out for getting it skimmed?  I've just got mine all stripped and realised I should have picked up a spring compressor - doh!

Cheers

[4x4]

No need to skim head as hg was ok,it just liked to burn oil due to valve stem oil seals not being fitted correctly 

[effinomega]

ok.  cheers

[steve6367]

Steve

Did you have to take the valves out for getting it skimmed?  I've just got mine all stripped and realised I should have picked up a spring compressor - doh!

Cheers

No need to remove them no 

[effinomega]

ok, thanks.  Just hoping I can put it back together again properly 

[steve6367]

I had a similar worry - lots of photos helps and the help here is fantastic  :