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[Migalot]

Nothing too alarming, but I've noticed that when braking from speed, the steering feels slightly wayward. In addition, I noticed recently (when stuck in traffic) that even at slow rolling speed when I lift off the brake, the steering wheel moves a degree or two to the left. If I apply the brakes again (when hardly moving at all) and lift off, it's creates a further degree or two move to the left.

Putting my thinking cap on, I wonder if it's worn-out wishbone bushes?

Anyone have any better ideas? 

[STEMO]

🔥 🔥

[dave the builder]

[TheBoy]

Jack it up and check for play in the suspension and steering components.

Or roll some of DtB's guessing dice

[Doctor Gollum]

Front wishbone horizontal bushes failed.

Classic symptoms and why you should fit poly bushes...

https://powerflexstore.co.uk/vauxhall/omega-b-1994-2003/powerflex-front-wishbone-front-bush-omega-b-1994-2003-pff80-902/

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Agreed. Polybushes are a no brainer. Which reminds me, mine are overdue a regreasing. Can wait until the weather warms up though.

[TheBoy]

Front wishbone horizontal bushes failed.

Classic symptoms and why you should fit poly bushes...

https://powerflexstore.co.uk/vauxhall/omega-b-1994-2003/powerflex-front-wishbone-front-bush-omega-b-1994-2003-pff80-902/

No, it needs a bit of diagnosis first!  It can be a million and one things, none of which can be diagnosed remotely.  Remember, we never encourage random changing of parts

I agree that front wishbone bushes are a likely candidate (but then if the fronts are shagged, the rears very likely are as well).  But it could be a lot of other times as well.  Hence it needs a poke around with a screwdriver and pry bar

[Doctor Gollum]

The symptoms are exactly the same as mine after fitting a set of defective Delphi wishbones the wheels would move over an inch within the wheel arch totally destroying the geometry and tyres in the process.

The rear bushes don't cause the same movement, and yes it makes sense to replace them at the same time (bear in mind that genuine rear bushes are significantly different in design to aftermarket ones), and there's no mention of clocking when steering which suggests the tie rods etc are serviceable.

[Migalot]

Going to show my ignorance here (as per usual).

IF it is the wishbone bushes that are gone (agree with TB's post, but my money is on this) are you saying that the existing bushes should be replaced with poly bushes, i.e. keep the old wishbones? Do they just hammer in, or is a special tool required? Is it worth getting the anti-roll bar bushes done too at the same time?

TIA 

[Doctor Gollum]

There's a guide, burn out the old ones and press what's left out and the poly bushes simply push in.

Don't undo anything else and you won't require an alignment.

If you're going to the trouble of replacing things whilst you're in there, then I would strongly recommend the ball joint, tie rods and shocks. Followed by an alignment.

But front/horizontal bushes can be done with just the wheel removed. Obviously jacked and well supported.

[Migalot]

There's a guide, burn out the old ones and press what's left out and the poly bushes simply push in.

Don't undo anything else and you won't require an alignment.

If you're going to the trouble of replacing things whilst you're in there, then I would strongly recommend the ball joint, tie rods and shocks. Followed by an alignment.

But front/horizontal bushes can be done with just the wheel removed.

Just checked. The offside wishbone was replaced in November 22. I have a new nearside wishbone in stock in my shed!

My mechanic is happy to replace all with polybushes. At the same time, one of the tie rods was seized solid last time the tracking was done two weeks ago, so worth getting them done at the same time as you suggest.

Finally, they did say that the camber is out a bit, but that involves something with fitting new bolts (??). The have a proper Hunter alignment setup, so may as well get it all done at once.

So for January:
Fit new NSF wishbone
Fit polybushes to both sides
Fit new tie rods
Camber bolts??
Tracking

[Migalot]

What size camber bolts would I need? They seem to range between 11mm and 15mm.

Would order from DG's polybush site:

https://powerflexstore.co.uk/search-results-page?q=camber%20bolts

[Doctor Gollum]

What size camber bolts would I need? They seem to range between 11mm and 15mm.

Would order from DG's polybush site:

https://powerflexstore.co.uk/search-results-page?q=camber%20bolts

Basically you don't need new camber bolts unless they're dissolved. In which case buy genuine as they're not a standard bolt iirc.

And for the love of God, don't buy wobble bolts.

Although the question should be asked as to why you would think it's a good idea to replace suspension parts individually 

Especially on an Omega where the alignment costs the thick end of £80 to do properly.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

And get them to set the geometry to WIM settings rather than standard Vauxhall settings.

[Migalot]

What size camber bolts would I need? They seem to range between 11mm and 15mm.

Would order from DG's polybush site:

https://powerflexstore.co.uk/search-results-page?q=camber%20bolts

Basically you don't need new camber bolts unless they're dissolved. In which case buy genuine as they're not a standard bolt iirc.

And for the love of God, don't buy wobble bolts.

Although the question should be asked as to why you would think it's a good idea to replace suspension parts individually 

Especially on an Omega where the alignment costs the thick end of £80 to do properly.

I thought you were advocating getting new tie rods a few posts ago???

Besides which, the the alignment was out within two weeks of setting and, on both occasions, they had a devil of a job adjusting the nearside (even with blasts of heat).

Also, the camber is definitely out and they said that the bolts are likely seized (no surprise after 21 years!) and would suggest getting new ones — sound advice.

No point in leaving the old tie rods and just replacing the bushes on the wishbones. May as well get as much as I can replaced now.

[Migalot]

And get them to set the geometry to WIM settings rather than standard Vauxhall settings.

Used to get Tony at WIM to do the settings. Is he still there?

[Doctor Gollum]

Money no object, replace the lot, including the springs.

But what I said was... Who on earth replaced a single wishbone 

That's just retarded. And a garage should know better

But if the alignment was last done poorly/incompletely due to seized components then yes, replace the tie rods. I would suggest actually replacing BOTH wishbones as pattern ones have a working life of about 20k miles.

When it comes to front suspension on the Omega either do it right once or get a different car.

[Migalot]

Money no object, replace the lot, including the springs.

But what I said was... Who on earth replaced a single wishbone 

That's just retarded. And a garage should know better

But if the alignment was last done poorly/incompletely due to seized components then yes, replace the tie rods. I would suggest actually replacing BOTH wishbones as pattern ones have a working life of about 20k miles.

When it comes to front suspension on the Omega either do it right once or get a different car.

Mea culpa. It's a long story...

Yes, I know.    

[Doctor Gollum]

If the ball joints and rear bushes are serviceable then you'll get away with just the poly bushes both sides.

If the tie rods need doing, then just do them. Likewise the drop links... These may even be considered a service item with the state of the roads.

Unless you're replacing the shocks, the camber bolts only need to be loosened a hair and retorqued after adjustment. (Replacing them is a waste of money unless you're replacing the shocks, in which case simply cut them off and use new hardware to save time/effort).

Sachs shocks are factory fit and reasonably priced,. Likewise springs and I would strongly suggest Kilen HD ones along with Febi or Sachs top mount kit.

Also worth considering is the rear tie rods. The thrust angle MUST be ZERO.  Nothing more, nothing less. This is set by the rear tie rods and if they've seized, they can easily be bent trying to undo them which will render the rest of the alignment void.

[Doctor Gollum]

Incidentally, for those that aren't aware...

The wishbones aren't sided. Position is dictated by which way up the ball joint is fitted.

On a table with the horizontal bush pointing away from you and the vertical bush nearest you and to the right, balljoint up is left and down is right. Three rivets to drill/cut/grind and the ball joint can simply be slid out, turned over and refitted.  Replacement ball joints come with three appropriate bolts. Easier than Lego.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Pretty sure Tony at WIM died not too long ago.

Rear tie rods are often badly seized unless they have been adjusted in the recent past. I had to replace both mine before I could get the geometry set.
WIM figures should be on here somewhere. If not, I have them written down somewhere and could hopefully dig them out.

[Nick W]

Going to show my ignorance here (as per usual).

IF it is the wishbone bushes that are gone (agree with TB's post, but my money is on this) are you saying that the existing bushes should be replaced with poly bushes, i.e. keep the old wishbones? Do they just hammer in, or is a special tool required? Is it worth getting the anti-roll bar bushes done too at the same time?

TIA

The easiest way to remove the bushes is with a tool. It's not the only way, as most people who have done this job don't have one.


The usual method is to butcher the outer edge of the rubber so the central sleeve falls out - this can be done with hacksaw blades, multitools, drilling around the edge(by far the least frustrating way) or whatever else you can think of. Having burnt a couple of suspension bushes out, I really wouldn't recommend it - they're not easy to set alight(a common propane burner won't do it), smell awful for ages, and the ashes are filthy. Once most of the rubber is out of the way, you need to cut a slit in the outer metal sleeve that is still in the wishbone. This is a simple hacksaw job. Then you collapse the sleeve with a hammer and drift so that the remains fall out.


The poly bushes are a different design, and are fitted by hand.


I do have a tool for both wishbone bushes, and will happily do it for you if you bring the bits(or the car!) to me in Chatham. There's no way I'd do this on the car.


Like this:




I would suggest that anyone who needs camber bolts to adjust the camber can't be trusted to do the job properly. They work well when pivoting around a fixed point, which isn't the case on the Omega.

[Migalot]

Incidentally, for those that aren't aware...

The wishbones aren't sided. Position is dictated by which way up the ball joint is fitted.

On a table with the horizontal bush pointing away from you and the vertical bush nearest you and to the right, balljoint up is left and down is right. Three rivets to drill/cut/grind and the ball joint can simply be slid out, turned over and refitted.  Replacement ball joints come with three appropriate bolts. Easier than Lego.

Cheers, Doc.

I've ordered a new OSF wishbone so, along with my mint NSF in the shed, they will both get done. Pretty sure my droplinks were done November 22. May leave the camber for now, but the right bolts are Monroe MC212 — a bit pricey...and out of stock!

[urlhttps://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/camber-correction-screw-15144/vauxhall/omega/omega-b/15327-2-6-v6][/url]

[Migalot]

Going to show my ignorance here (as per usual).

IF it is the wishbone bushes that are gone (agree with TB's post, but my money is on this) are you saying that the existing bushes should be replaced with poly bushes, i.e. keep the old wishbones? Do they just hammer in, or is a special tool required? Is it worth getting the anti-roll bar bushes done too at the same time?

TIA

The easiest way to remove the bushes is with a tool. It's not the only way, as most people who have done this job don't have one.


The usual method is to butcher the outer edge of the rubber so the central sleeve falls out - this can be done with hacksaw blades, multitools, drilling around the edge(by far the least frustrating way) or whatever else you can think of. Having burnt a couple of suspension bushes out, I really wouldn't recommend it - they're not easy to set alight(a common propane burner won't do it), smell awful for ages, and the ashes are filthy. Once most of the rubber is out of the way, you need to cut a slit in the outer metal sleeve that is still in the wishbone. This is a simple hacksaw job. Then you collapse the sleeve with a hammer and drift so that the remains fall out.


The poly bushes are a different design, and are fitted by hand.


I do have a tool for both wishbone bushes, and will happily do it for you if you bring the bits(or the car!) to me in Chatham. There's no way I'd do this on the car.


Like this:




I would suggest that anyone who needs camber bolts to adjust the camber can't be trusted to do the job properly. They work well when pivoting around a fixed point, which isn't the case on the Omega.

Cheers, Nick. Useful info. 

[Migalot]

Pretty sure Tony at WIM died not too long ago.

Rear tie rods are often badly seized unless they have been adjusted in the recent past. I had to replace both mine before I could get the geometry set.
WIM figures should be on here somewhere. If not, I have them written down somewhere and could hopefully dig them out.

That would be much appreciated, Albs.

Such a shame about Tony. Great chap.

[Doctor Gollum]

Incidentally, for those that aren't aware...

The wishbones aren't sided. Position is dictated by which way up the ball joint is fitted.

On a table with the horizontal bush pointing away from you and the vertical bush nearest you and to the right, balljoint up is left and down is right. Three rivets to drill/cut/grind and the ball joint can simply be slid out, turned over and refitted.  Replacement ball joints come with three appropriate bolts. Easier than Lego.

Cheers, Doc.

I've ordered a new OSF wishbone so, along with my mint NSF in the shed, they will both get done. Pretty sure my droplinks were done November 22. May leave the camber for now, but the right bolts are Monroe MC212 — a bit pricey...and out of stock!

[urlhttps://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/camber-correction-screw-15144/vauxhall/omega/omega-b/15327-2-6-v6][/url]

Those bolts are totally, utterly and 100% completely NOT the correct bolts. And anyone who suggests otherwise has no business working on an Omega. That's the trouble with relying on idiots to provide parts.

[Doctor Gollum]

Camber bolt part numbers...

M12 bolt is 11096171 M12 x 1.5 x 55
M12 nut is 11094488

M14 bolt is 11090822 M14 x 1.75 x 56
M14 nut is 11094506

Ball joint 90512982

Genuine wishbone, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/314080027493?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=m3-jiuxftwq&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=Ht8iHAwYSta&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY best genuine price in the world by some margin.

You'll require 3 x 11094436 and 3 x 11100041 to reverse one of the ball joints.

Rear tie rods...

90497197 https://www.onlinecarparts.co.uk/lemforder-1249872.html

The nuts listed above aren't standard nuts.

[Jimbob]

And get them to set the geometry to WIM settings rather than standard Vauxhall settings.

Used to get Tony at WIM to do the settings. Is he still there?

Tony passed away about 18 months ago, WIM taken over by protyre and no longer has a reputation that makes you want to visit.  I beleive one of those he trained is bookable not far away from there, can find the details easily enough if you want.

[Migalot]

Camber bolt part numbers...

M12 bolt is 11096171 M12 x 1.5 x 55
M12 nut is 11094488

M14 bolt is 11090822 M14 x 1.75 x 56
M14 nut is 11094506

Ball joint 90512982

Cheers, DG. I was able to get hold of some hen's teeth, but those bolts are proving a tad more elusive.  

I think I'll leave the camber for now.

[Migalot]

And get them to set the geometry to WIM settings rather than standard Vauxhall settings.

Used to get Tony at WIM to do the settings. Is he still there?

Tony passed away about 18 months ago, WIM taken over by protyre and no longer has a reputation that makes you want to visit.  I beleive one of those he trained is bookable not far away from there, can find the details easily enough if you want.

Thanks, Jimbob. 

I'm hoping that someone on here can get hold of Tony's settings for the Omega.

[Doctor Gollum]

Camber bolt part numbers...

M12 bolt is 11096171 M12 x 1.5 x 55
M12 nut is 11094488

M14 bolt is 11090822 M14 x 1.75 x 56
M14 nut is 11094506

Ball joint 90512982

Cheers, DG. I was able to get hold of some hen's teeth, but those bolts are proving a tad more elusive.  

I think I'll leave the camber for now.

In which case you may as well not bother...

 Just throw the poly bushes in without removing the wishbones and save up/collect parts to rebuild the suspension front to back.

I know I keep banging on about the suspension, but I know from bitter experience just how few miles it takes to destroy brand new tyres. And it's alot less than a thousand 

And those M12/M14 bolts are a choice, but without the car in front of me, it's a 50/50 guess. They should be M14 being a facelift V6... But...

[Migalot]

Just throw the poly bushes in without removing the wishbones and save up/collect parts to rebuild the suspension front to back.

I know I keep banging on about the suspension, but I know from bitter experience just how few miles it takes to destroy brand new tyres. And it's alot less than a thousand 

That's my plan! 

[grifter]

If the tie rods need doing, then just do them. Likewise the drop links... These may even be considered a service item with the state of the roads.

When I replaced my drop links I used these heavy duty ones from Meyle, they do a standard one and the HD one.

https://web2.carparts-cat.com/default.aspx?32=15325&51=14400847260&55=616+060+5575%2fHD&35=144&125=0&36=3229&124=3229&14=4&34=0,100013,100210,100590&1146=3229&1105=1&10=FCDB1D9354D643D78AC7F1D365D1D792348004&12=140

Uusally easy enough to find on the bay of e just pop the part number in 616 060 5575