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Author Topic: Lumpy cold idle  (Read 8331 times)

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chrisr

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Lumpy cold idle
« on: 08 March 2022, 00:17:21 »

Can anyone tell me what is causing my 2002 2.2 petrol to have a lumpy tickover from cold, almost to the point where it cuts out, itís fine once itís warmed up. Thanks
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Lumpy cold idle
« Reply #1 on: 08 March 2022, 02:32:29 »

ECU coolant temp sensor failing or a split breather hose.
« Last Edit: 08 March 2022, 02:35:34 by Doctor Gollum »
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chrisr

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Re: Lumpy cold idle
« Reply #2 on: 11 March 2022, 16:52:03 »

Thanks Doctor, where would I look for a split breather hose?
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cam.in.head

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Re: Lumpy cold idle
« Reply #3 on: 11 March 2022, 17:19:45 »

not familiar with the 4 cylinder ones.do these have an idle air valve ?
if so is it working ?
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Fraggles Rock

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Re: Lumpy cold idle
« Reply #4 on: 11 March 2022, 17:28:23 »

Have a read of these...

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90528.0

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90586.0

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90597.0

The 2.2 is a progression of the 2.0 so much of the same applies.

If the breather hoses are bad, then they will either be rock hard and brittle or really soft and gooey. Neither is ideal.
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chrisr

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Re: Lumpy cold idle
« Reply #5 on: 01 February 2023, 08:46:39 »

So Iíve put up with this problem for nearly a year (!) but itís time to get it sorted, Iíve bought a new coolant sensor but canít see where it goes so must be well hidden, anyone? Thanks.
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Lumpy cold idle
« Reply #6 on: 01 February 2023, 11:22:35 »

Back of the block.

There are two. One for the ecu and one for the gauge. The wire to the gauge one has a female spade connector and it isn't uncommon for it to come adrift, especially if you're rummaging around at the back of the engine.

There are also two thermo switches on the radiator, so you really need to be clear on what you are actually trying to fix.
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chrisr

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Re: Lumpy cold idle
« Reply #7 on: 01 February 2023, 23:33:34 »

The gauge works fine. The car starts ok but within a minute or so the tickover is very up and down until it warms up after a couple of miles and then is fine again.
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Lumpy cold idle
« Reply #8 on: 01 February 2023, 23:40:51 »

That doesn't sound like a temp sensor failure :-\
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chrisr

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Re: Lumpy cold idle
« Reply #9 on: 03 February 2023, 18:56:13 »

Any ideas?
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cam.in.head

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Re: Lumpy cold idle
« Reply #10 on: 04 February 2023, 09:30:56 »

hi.
if you have a new coolant sensor then worth fitting BUT just make sure its the right one. in earlier 80' & 90's bosch jetronic injection cars (carlton,manta,senator) etc there were 2 variations that looked identical but one had a single element that had a circuit across the 2 terminals but not to the body and there was a type with 2 seperate elements that each had a circuit to earth.omega ones may not be like this anyway but worth mentioning as the wrong type fitted to a jetronic didnt work !just check wether yours has anypins circuit to earth and the same with your new one.chances are the old one is fine anyway. this sensor tells the ecu how hot the engine is .if in any doubt aboutthe new one then leave the old one in !.(the other brass one with the spade is for the temp guage and wont affect running in any way)
fuel pressure could do with checking just to eliminate that side of things.
other things to check ( probably mentioned before)
plugs ,leads,coil.
breathers,hoses,air hoses,vacuum connections,servo pipe,
throttle body (often gunged up !) dont play with any of the adjustments thou !
we have to assume the actual basic engine is physically ok as well. compression test ,cambelt/ alignment,.
just a few ideas.
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Lumpy cold idle
« Reply #11 on: 04 February 2023, 10:48:13 »

Presumably this is one of the two previously discussed cars :-\
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chrisr

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Re: Lumpy cold idle
« Reply #12 on: 07 February 2023, 10:07:06 »

My main problem is I canít find where the sensor is to try the new one anyway. As previously stated the car starts fine from cold but within about 30 seconds it seems like whatever aids the cold start is already trying to give up. Once the engine has been running for about 5 mins with the revs flicking up and down and almost stalling then everything smooths out and the car runs perfectly. When starting when warmed up there are no problems at all. Itís like in the old days if you tried to knock the choke off too soon.
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Lumpy cold idle
« Reply #13 on: 07 February 2023, 11:48:38 »

Again, is this one of the two previously discussed cars, and what buggering around has been done to it?
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dave the builder

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Re: Lumpy cold idle
« Reply #14 on: 07 February 2023, 18:41:30 »

Crack in the exhaust manifold  :-\
you should get some live data from start up ,compare to when up to temp
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chrisr

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Re: Lumpy cold idle
« Reply #15 on: 09 February 2023, 07:09:43 »

No, I donít think itís a previously discussed car, no it has been buggered about with and it had a new manifold a couple of years ago.
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Lumpy cold idle
« Reply #16 on: 09 February 2023, 10:15:32 »

No, I donít think itís a previously discussed car, no it has been buggered about with and it had a new manifold a couple of years ago.

This thread started off about the rough running of two different cars.

Are you saying that this is a third car ???

I would consider a new manifold buggering about with.

Itís hard enough to diagnose issues remotely without having each question added into the last one about different cars.
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chrisr

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Re: Lumpy cold idle
« Reply #17 on: 09 February 2023, 11:02:15 »

It was running fine both with the previous cracked manifold and with the new one, thatís not the issue. I believe it was you who suggested a coolant sensor problem so I bought a new one but couldnít locate where it went. I wasnít aware of two other cars with the same problem. Sorry to have disturbed you, Iíll try somewhere else.
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Lumpy cold idle
« Reply #18 on: 09 February 2023, 11:43:43 »

Not trying to be unhelpful.

Apologies, I think I may have confused this car with the two of another Chris, both four cylinder cars running rough.

I only realised this when I went to link to that thread :-[
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Lumpy cold idle
« Reply #19 on: 09 February 2023, 11:46:38 »

So, from the beginning...

Did you find any split or blocked breather hoses?

Any codes to suggest that the ECU coolant temp is not accurate?

Presumably the exhaust manifold was the one replaced?

Any evidence of an exhaust leak? Erroneous O2 readings when cold from the live data?
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chrisr

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Re: Lumpy cold idle
« Reply #20 on: 20 November 2023, 13:36:28 »

I had the inlet manifold and throttle body gaskets replaced and all is now well. Still couldnít find where the coolant sensor goes!
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Lumpy cold idle
« Reply #21 on: 21 November 2023, 00:41:58 »

You couldn't or the place that did the work couldn't locate either coolant sensors ???

Both sensors are at the back of the head and don't require removing anything to access them.
« Last Edit: 21 November 2023, 00:44:35 by Doctor Gollum »
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chrisr

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Re: Lumpy cold idle
« Reply #22 on: 21 November 2023, 09:38:58 »

I couldnít locate one, let alone two! But then it wasnít that anywayÖ.
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Lumpy cold idle
« Reply #23 on: 21 November 2023, 11:29:42 »

I couldnít locate one, let alone two! But then it wasnít that anywayÖ.
https://www.proxyparts.com/car-parts-stock/information/engine-code/y22se/part/cylinder-head/partid/15399511/

The lump on the back of the head is the coolant 'bridge' The black plug is the ECU coolant temperature sensor. The dash temp sender has either a spade or button terminal and should be close by.
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chrisr

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Re: Lumpy cold idle
« Reply #24 on: 27 January 2024, 00:18:01 »

Finally sorted this problem (I hope!) Turned out to be a sticking butterfly in the throttle body, cleaned it all out and lubricated the butterfly and all is well. Now I have done this I wonder if there would be any benefit in putting on a new throttle body, or should it be ok now?
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Lumpy cold idle
« Reply #25 on: 27 January 2024, 11:51:26 »

The four pot breather system is more fragile than the V6 one as there's no breather bridge to collect the sludge... It all builds p in the TB and cam cover.

Replacing the TB with a brand new shiny one will have one single benefit... It will take longer to sludge up.

Basically, if you regularly and thoroughly clean the breathers and TB as per the guide then you should never have a repeat of this problem.

Coolant temps not withstanding as sensor failure will have the sum total of absolutely nothing to do with a misbehaving throttle.
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Jimbob

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Re: Lumpy cold idle
« Reply #26 on: 28 January 2024, 09:44:41 »

You could add in a firetrap, which helps with this iirc.  long long time since I had a 2.2

chrisr

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Re: Lumpy cold idle
« Reply #27 on: 11 March 2024, 23:08:27 »

Update: having cleaned and lubricated the throttle body and thinking this had solved the problem, it came back again. I put a new throttle body on and immediately had a smooth tick over from cold and it would seem much better fuel consumption. I even saw 36 mpg as an average from Surbiton to Rushden and back, well pleased with that.
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Lumpy cold idle
« Reply #28 on: 12 March 2024, 07:58:01 »

Update: having cleaned and lubricated the throttle body and thinking this had solved the problem, it came back again. I put a new throttle body on and immediately had a smooth tick over from cold and it would seem much better fuel consumption. I even saw 36 mpg as an average from Surbiton to Rushden and back, well pleased with that.
:-X

Did you clean the cam cover and breathers from the sump to the TB  :-\
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chrisr

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Re: Lumpy cold idle
« Reply #29 on: 18 March 2024, 19:18:02 »

Cam cover was done a little while ago when I changed the gasket, all breathers cleaned that I could find.
« Last Edit: 18 March 2024, 19:20:29 by chrisr »
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