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[terry paget]

Astra H 1.6 petrol manual hatchback
Yesterday I changed the cam belt on this car, took it for test run, all OK
Today I greased the aux belt pulley bearing. Moved the car out of the garage, no lights on. Moved it back into the garage, EML on.
Plugged in diagnoser; 2 faults;
P0011-66 Intake camshaft phasing mechanical reference position range performance
P0014-66 Exhaust camshaft phasing mechanical reference position range/performance

and in red, lower down
P0011-66 is repeated

Help!

[Viral_Jim]

Sounds suspiciously like the timing is now off. 

Given it was ok yesterday, did you retighten the tensioner correctly? I'm wondering if the tensioner slackened overnight? 

Someone smarter than me will no doubt be along shortly to give you a more intelligent answer.

[terry paget]

Sounds suspiciously like the timing is now off. 

Given it was ok yesterday, did you retighten the tensioner correctly? I'm wondering if the tensioner slackened overnight? 

Someone smarter than me will no doubt be along shortly to give you a more intelligent answer.

That's the first conclusion I came to. At least the engine still runs, so I have not wrecked it yet. I await more experienced counsel.

[terry paget]

The tightening for both tensioner and tensioner was 20Nm, then 120 degrees, then 15 degrees. I do not have an angle tightener gauge, but remember the 20Nm, then 120, the 15 by eye. They did not seem loose.

[dave the builder]

check the timing
the tensioner is spring loaded and self adjusting
unless you didn't get the tensioner's peg located in the block
did you check the timing marks before you put it all back together  after rotating the engine by hand ?

[terry paget]

check the timing
the tensioner is spring loaded and self adjusting
unless you didn't get the tensioner's peg located in the block
did you check the timing marks before you put it all back together  after rotating the engine by hand ?

Timing was set up correct, and still correct after 2 revolutions. I am confident the tensioner's peg was located at the back. I had trouble getting the belt on, as reported, since I could not lock the tensioner back, and had to call in SWMBO to hold the allen key while I heaved the belt on.
Car ran fine yesterday in test drive. Engine still runs without 'rattle'. I had an Omega 3.0 whose timing slipped 2 teeth, but it still ran, albeit with a clatter. I stripped it, changed cam belt and pulleys, and it ran for several more years, until daughter crashed it.

[terry paget]

Timing is still correct. Belt is still taut.

[dave the builder]

plugged all the sensors back in ?
I don't know why you struggled to get the belt on , taking the tension off with an allen key 
did you check the new belt against the old one ?
changed the oil ? oil level ok ? correct oil filter fitted ?
screen mesh on the VVT clean ?

[terry paget]

plugged all the sensors back in ?
I don't know why you struggled to get the belt on , taking the tension off with an allen key 
did you check the new belt against the old one ?
changed the oil ? oil level ok ? correct oil filter fitted ?
screen mesh on the VVT clean ?

I don't think I unplugged any sensors, apart from the MAF sensor. I disconnected the battery as Haynes instructed.
I did not compare belts, but it fitted well enough, and new belts are ofter a bit tight to fit. I changed the oil and filter last Sunday after buying the car.
I have not checked the screen mesh on the VVTs. I removed it on an earlier Astra, but it was not clogged and others on this Forum thought that unwise. Is it easy to check without removing it? Does the error code suggest that?

[terry paget]

To turn the camshafts to adjust the timing I inserted a torx bit in the shallow torx socket in the cap of what ws presumably the camshaft timing machinery. I hope I did not not damage it, it worked all right at the end of the operation, but the socket was shallow and required a little inward pressure to turn the cams.

[terry paget]

These torx sockets.

[dave the builder]

to rotate the cams into timed position ,you rotate the crankshaft ,which drives the cambelt to move the camshafts .

I don't know if you've effectively loaded up the VVT by turning the torx section of the sprockets 

is the crankshaft timing mark at 6 o'clock ?

there's a youtube video here
the music is VERY annoying 

[terry paget]

Cams as set

Crank as set
I could only turn the 2 cams together with the belt. To align them I had to use the Torx tool. If they had been bang on I could have simply locked them with the locking tool, but they were not so I adjusted them. That is surely the purpose of the Torx sockets in the end of the cams.

[terry paget]

I appreciate I might have applied too much pressure on the Tork sockets and damaged the internal machinery. But that does not fit with the test run after the cam belt fitment yesterday, with no problems. Nor does it seem likely that both cam motors would have failed simultaneously.

[Viral_Jim]

Terry, looking at your latest pics, it looks like the crank might be a tooth, or half a tooth out? I would have thought the timing mark should be bang on the 6-o'clock arrow, rather than 6.15ish as in your pic.

I'd be tempted to strip it down, rotate to TDC and put a steel rule across the cam sprockets to make sure the timing is bang on. After that I'd back off the torx bolt you used to rotate the cam and re-torque it.

Rather than using that to rotate the cam, I'd put an Allen key in the hole that's at 11o-clock on the left hand cam in your picture, and a screwdriver in the slot. Bracing one against the other should let you rotate the cam.

I know it's a right pain in the 'arris, but, barring some freak electronic failure, it has to be an issue with a component you've touched in the last 48hrs so I rather think retracing your steps is the only way to be sure.

As to why it's only shown up on the second start, that's got me beat!

[Doctor Gollum]

You have potentially forced the vvt mechanisms. Hence the double fault codes...

Camshafts are rotated with a spanner on the machined flats on the camshafts. Readily accessible with the cam cover off.

What does Haynes suggest for resetting/renewing the vvt gubbins as that's what you're doing next.

Belt will be out because the cams are now effectively out.

[terry paget]

Terry, looking at your latest pics, it looks like the crank might be a tooth, or half a tooth out? I would have thought the timing mark should be bang on the 6-o'clock arrow, rather than 6.15ish as in your pic.

I'd be tempted to strip it down, rotate to TDC and put a steel rule across the cam sprockets to make sure the timing is bang on. After that I'd back off the torx bolt you used to rotate the cam and re-torque it.

Rather than using that to rotate the cam, I'd put an Allen key in the hole that's at 11o-clock on the left hand cam in your picture, and a screwdriver in the slot. Bracing one against the other should let you rotate the cam.

I know it's a right pain in the 'arris, but, barring some freak electronic failure, it has to be an issue with a component you've touched in the last 48hrs so I rather think retracing your steps is the only way to be sure.

As to why it's only shown up on the second start, that's got me beat!

Thanks again for your thoughts, Jimmy. Timing is fine. Parallax distorts the pictures. It ran well 12 miles yesterday without any problems. I realised overnight that I had not greased the auxiliary pulley bearing, so did it this afternoon. I backed the car out of the garage, all working nornally, stopped the engine, restarted the engine and the EML came on, with codes suggesting trouble with the variable valve timing. It's a mystery.

[Doctor Gollum]

Terry, looking at your latest pics, it looks like the crank might be a tooth, or half a tooth out? I would have thought the timing mark should be bang on the 6-o'clock arrow, rather than 6.15ish as in your pic.

I'd be tempted to strip it down, rotate to TDC and put a steel rule across the cam sprockets to make sure the timing is bang on. After that I'd back off the torx bolt you used to rotate the cam and re-torque it.

Rather than using that to rotate the cam, I'd put an Allen key in the hole that's at 11o-clock on the left hand cam in your picture, and a screwdriver in the slot. Bracing one against the other should let you rotate the cam.

I know it's a right pain in the 'arris, but, barring some freak electronic failure, it has to be an issue with a component you've touched in the last 48hrs so I rather think retracing your steps is the only way to be sure.

As to why it's only shown up on the second start, that's got me beat!

Thanks again for your thoughts, Jimmy. Timing is fine. Parallax distorts the pictures. It ran well 12 miles yesterday without any problems. I realised overnight that I had not greased the auxiliary pulley bearing, so did it this afternoon. I backed the car out of the garage, all working nornally, stopped the engine, restarted the engine and the EML came on, with codes suggesting trouble with the variable valve timing. It's a mystery.

It shouldn't be given your confession re how you adjusted the cams

[Doctor Gollum]

Have a watch of this...

https://youtu.be/5QEZ8YGgQ_4

[terry paget]

Have a watch of this...

https://youtu.be/5QEZ8YGgQ_4

Thanks, Doc. I've had a watch of that. I'm a little wiser. I'm still not sure what sin I have committed. You infer I should not have rotated the camshafts slightly with the belt off to align the setting marks precisely using the internal Torx sockets, right? That is how I have fitted dozens of belts on Omegas. If it was unwise on VVT engines I wish Haynes had mentioned it.

[Andy B]

....
 That is how I have fitted dozens of belts on Omegas.  .....

but Omega's cam belts are directly driven by the belt

[dave the builder]

Have a watch of this...

https://youtu.be/5QEZ8YGgQ_4

Thanks, Doc. I've had a watch of that. I'm a little wiser. I'm still not sure what sin I have committed. You infer I should not have rotated the camshafts slightly with the belt off to align the setting marks precisely using the internal Torx sockets, right? That is how I have fitted dozens of belts on Omegas. If it was unwise on VVT engines I wish Haynes had mentioned it.

the cam marks don't line up precisely
no rotating anything with the belt off because it's all locked with the locking kit BEFORE the belt is removed

and a test drive won't actuate VVT unless you reach certain engine and road speeds

not helpful I know , more of a moan ,sorry

could still be worth checking the VVT screens and actuating the VVT solenoids with output test

I have to go back out ,I will give it some thought 

[terry paget]

More data. With front of the car still on axle stands and all the covers off, I put back the air cleaner and connected the battery.

I started the engine, no EML, engine ran fine. Stopped engine, did it again, no EML. Did it a third time, EML came on, P0011-66, P0014-66; with engine still running I cancelled the codes, EML went out, no codes displayed, engine still ran.

This is consistent. Every 3 or 4 engine starts the EML comes on, but can be cancelled and stays out.

I don't understand it, but it eliminates certains theories. I unplugged and replugged the cables to the VVT sensors, no change.

[Doctor Gollum]

Basically the vvt gubbins is out of kilter and need resetting.

If this does not work, then they will need to be replaced.

Otherwise you will continue to get the fault codes mentioned and will potentially cause significant damage.

The codes are present because the cams are out of their expected positions and not for any other reason to 

[terry paget]

Have a watch of this...

https://youtu.be/5QEZ8YGgQ_4

Thanks, Doc. I've had a watch of that. I'm a little wiser. I'm still not sure what sin I have committed. You infer I should not have rotated the camshafts slightly with the belt off to align the setting marks precisely using the internal Torx sockets, right? That is how I have fitted dozens of belts on Omegas. If it was unwise on VVT engines I wish Haynes had mentioned it.

the cam marks don't line up precisely
no rotating anything with the belt off because it's all locked with the locking kit BEFORE the belt is removed

and a test drive won't actuate VVT unless you reach certain engine and road speeds

not helpful I know , more of a moan ,sorry

could still be worth checking the VVT screens and actuating the VVT solenoids with output test

I have to go back out ,I will give it some thought

They didn't before, that's why I tried to improve matter. I have bought many a car with the belt out a cog or even two, and they all ran all right. There is a tool for the V6 Omega which sets the cams precisely, none for the 4 cylinder or the Astra.

[Doctor Gollum]

Because the vvt gubbins is, by its very nature, variable...

[terry paget]

To clarify, the first picture of the cams, timed 9.41, was the cams as I found them, old belt. The second picture, timed 14.31, was the cams as I reset them. Maybe I should have locked them where they were in order not to confuse the ECU, but I didn't.

[Doctor Gollum]

Not necessarily, but removing the cam cover and using the flats on the camshafts would have been better than trying to force them round with a torx bit...

[terry paget]

Maybe the timing is out. I set the crank with the pulley off. With the pulley on it is more precise.


Might this error be enough to upset the ECU?

[Doctor Gollum]

Again...

The ecu codes are because both cams are out of position because you forced the vvt.

You need to reset both vvt units AND retime the engine.

If this does not clear the codes, then you need to replace the vvt units.

Simples

[terry paget]

Again...

The ecu codes are because both cams are out of position because you forced the vvt.

You need to reset both vvt units AND retime the engine.

If this does not clear the codes, then you need to replace the vvt units.

Simples

You say I forced the VVTs, but all I did was turn them in the same way as the cam belt turns them Or have I missed the point?

[Viral_Jim]

Have a watch of this...

https://youtu.be/5QEZ8YGgQ_4

Thanks, Doc. I've had a watch of that. I'm a little wiser. I'm still not sure what sin I have committed. You infer I should not have rotated the camshafts slightly with the belt off to align the setting marks precisely using the internal Torx sockets, right? That is how I have fitted dozens of belts on Omegas. If it was unwise on VVT engines I wish Haynes had mentioned it.

This is the relevant bit Terry. I suspect that the cams were precisely aligned. By that I mean precisely aligned where they needed to be according to the VVT unit. By aligning the marks independently of moving the crank you've taken it out of time.

You may also have damaged the VVT unit by 'overtightening' the cam by using the torx bolt to rotate the cam.

Haynes should have a procedures to reset the VVT, maybe under the section for changing the head gasket as presumably you have to do it when the head comes off.

[terry paget]

Here is the crank setting. Not far out,is it?

[terry paget]

Thanks Jimmy 944. There is a procedure for setting the VVT system for the 1.4 petrol and the diesel in Haynes, but not the 1.6. Haynes does not specifically  instruct me to set the cam timing marks together and in line with the cam centres, so that's what I presumed. Mistake? I till do not believe I could have overstressed the VVT units with the Torx bit, the socket was too shallow for that. My first photos showed the original setup, which seemd way out. Question is - what should I do now?

[henryd]

If you have pics of before you removed the belt Terry why not go back to that setting?,after all there were no problems then !

[terry paget]

If you have pics of before you removed the belt Terry why not go back to that setting?,after all there were no problems then !

Good suggestion, Henry.

[Nick W]

You say I forced the VVTs, but all I did was turn them in the same way as the cam belt turns them Or have I missed the point?

Look at them again:


the VVTs are bolted to the cams
The belt pulleys are attached to the VVTs, and move in relation to them.


You used the centre bolt to turn the VVTs, when you should have turned the pulleys or the actual camshaft. This will have changed the relationship between the pulley and the VVTs, and is what the ECU is flagging with the fault codes. It may have buggered the mechs too; considering that pattern parts for these are readily and cheaply available because they get very noisy, I would think it likely. This mechanism changes the valve timing between the crank and the cams, so if you get it wrong, or mistime it from the start you can end up with dramatically incorrect valve timing - easily as much as several teeth out.


You normally and sensibly ask questions when you find systems that are new to you, yet didn't in this case. That seems rather out of character.

[terry paget]

Silly me.
 It appeared to me in the pic (reply 28) that the plate with the torx socket in it was directly attached to the pulley by 5 screws. I imagined that the VVT machinery connected the camshaft to the plate.

[Doctor Gollum]

Re watch the video I linked to. It appears briefly, but there is an exploded view of how the vvt units attach. The parts you turned are a cover screw for the actual fastening bolt. So by turning them clockwise you have rotated the whole mechanism.

[Entwood]

Re watch the video I linked to. It appears briefly, but there is an exploded view of how the vvt units attach. The parts you turned are a cover screw for the actual fastening bolt. So by turning them clockwise you have rotated the whole mechanism.

At this point I'd risk turning them back by the same amount you turned them forward ....  what do you have to lose   If already FUBAR it'll make no difference .. if not FUBAR it might well solve the problem ?

[Doctor Gollum]

Re watch the video I linked to. It appears briefly, but there is an exploded view of how the vvt units attach. The parts you turned are a cover screw for the actual fastening bolt. So by turning them clockwise you have rotated the whole mechanism.

At this point I'd risk turning them back by the same amount you turned them forward ....  what do you have to lose   If already FUBAR it'll make no difference .. if not FUBAR it might well solve the problem ?

That would simply slacken the cover bolts 

[Entwood]

Re watch the video I linked to. It appears briefly, but there is an exploded view of how the vvt units attach. The parts you turned are a cover screw for the actual fastening bolt. So by turning them clockwise you have rotated the whole mechanism.

At this point I'd risk turning them back by the same amount you turned them forward ....  what do you have to lose   If already FUBAR it'll make no difference .. if not FUBAR it might well solve the problem ?

That would simply slacken the cover bolts 

A tyre lever, or similar long bar, across the tails of the studs on the periphery ??  If the torx screw allowed a small movement it shouldn't take a lot of effort to move them back the other way We are only talking a very few degrees I believe ?

[terry paget]

The torx socket did not rotate within the body of the VVT sprocket, I simply used it to rotate the whole sprocket. So no need to reverse the rotation.

[terry paget]

My thanks to all for interest and advice. My current plan is to reset the VVT sprockets as near as possible to the original positions as photographed, i.e. timing marks level with each other and 1.1/4 teeth above the line between cam centres, turning camshafts with spanner on the flats. Please feel free to comment!

[Doctor Gollum]

Re watch the video I linked to. It appears briefly, but there is an exploded view of how the vvt units attach. The parts you turned are a cover screw for the actual fastening bolt. So by turning them clockwise you have rotated the whole mechanism.

At this point I'd risk turning them back by the same amount you turned them forward ....  what do you have to lose   If already FUBAR it'll make no difference .. if not FUBAR it might well solve the problem ?

That would simply slacken the cover bolts 

A tyre lever, or similar long bar, across the tails of the studs on the periphery ??  If the torx screw allowed a small movement it shouldn't take a lot of effort to move them back the other way We are only talking a very few degrees I believe ?

The torx screw visible only connects to the cover. The mechanism needs removing and refitting correctly, with the cams locked. This can only be done with the cam cover removed as the locking tool fits the back of the head, not the pulleys... The pulley locks stop the pulleys from turning whilst the cams and crank are correctly locked.

The video I linked to quickly, but clearly shows how the complete lock kit works.

The vvt mechanisms can only be corrected with the cams and crank locked and the belt off

[dave the builder]

I tried to improve matter. I have bought many a car with the belt out a cog or even two, and they all ran all right. There is a tool for the V6 Omega which sets the cams precisely, none for the 4 cylinder or the Astra.

you have the cam locking chocks in the kit , these should have been inserted and the crankshadt locked BEFORE you removed the belt
As per my photos
on the VVT cams the timing marks do NOT line up
rewatch or watch  the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bolu-wkxYzw
It's IMPORTANT
pay attention at 2 mins 40 seconds shows the marks on the cams, which DON'T line up
so use the cam locking tool wedges and the crankshaft locking bracket

you should not struggle to get the belt back on

IF ,once you timed it correctly with the locking kit ,you still have issues ,then you will need to look into the VVT

sorry for the late reply , not long got back

read DG's post that he just snuck in before i had chance 

[terry paget]

Still strugging to locate the crankshaft locking tool. There is a picture in the video, it says I need to remove a gearbox bolt, still can't locate it. You say it goes between the sump and the block. Is the picture in the video from beneath the car?

[dave the builder]

I did pics on your cambelt wanted thread
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=145432.0
showing cam and crank locking  locations 
the crankshaft locking tool goes in a slot between sump and block where BOTH meet the bell-housing
above is the oil filter ,forward is the front engine mount

[terry paget]

I did pics on your cambelt wanted thread
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=145432.0
showing cam and crank locking  locations 
the crankshaft locking tool goes in a slot between sump and block where BOTH meet the bell-housing
above is the oil filter ,forward is the front engine mount

Thanks. You did indeed, can't see it now, the jack is there. Somewhere between the exhaust downpipe and the front engine mount?

[dave the builder]

the manicat exhaust is left of it ,the oil filter is above,the gearbox is to the right
the engine mount is visible in the picture ,you may not have the sensor on yours

[terry paget]

Does this look correctly realigned?

[dave the builder]

yep 
is the crankshaft bang on 6 o'clock 

[terry paget]

You say I forced the VVTs, but all I did was turn them in the same way as the cam belt turns them Or have I missed the point?

Look at them again:


the VVTs are bolted to the cams
The belt pulleys are attached to the VVTs, and move in relation to them.


You used the centre bolt to turn the VVTs, when you should have turned the pulleys or the actual camshaft. This will have changed the relationship between the pulley and the VVTs, and is what the ECU is flagging with the fault codes. It may have buggered the mechs too; considering that pattern parts for these are readily and cheaply available because they get very noisy, I would think it likely. This mechanism changes the valve timing between the crank and the cams, so if you get it wrong, or mistime it from the start you can end up with dramatically incorrect valve timing - easily as much as several teeth out.


You normally and sensibly ask questions when you find systems that are new to you, yet didn't in this case. That seems rather out of character.

Thank you for those kind words. I suppose the reason was panic. I changed the cam belt on a 2006 Astra 1.6 recently, piece of cake. I bought a 2008 Astra 1.6 for my daughter last weekend, she's coming home this weekend; I thought I would pop in a new cambelt for her, assumed it would be the same as last time. No it wasn't! Same cambelt kit, still Haynes Astra 2004-2009, should have been a doddle. Job is not finished yet. She will probably have to return to London in the Omega estate she has been driving for the last four months.

[terry paget]

Fitting the new cam cover gasket, I note Haynes does not advice black goo in the sharp corners. It's still tempting for an old Omega man to apply some.

[terry paget]

Yet again my profound thanks to members of this forum for sorting me out. Aftermarket cam cover gasket holding well so far, and yesterday 10 engine starts were achieved without any EMLs. This morning I took son and grandson to the Haynes Motor Museum in the car, an 80 mile round trip, and it performed faultlessly.

[dave the builder]

well done Terry
got there in the end 

[terry paget]

Footnote: In my short Astra ownership I have suffered 3 failures of the coolant hose between coolant pump exit, then splitting to header tank and radiator bottom. At the recent MOT test of Ben's 2006 Astra the tester observed that hose was the most common cause of Astra breakdown. If I search on e-bay for Astra hose, that's the hose that pops up first So today I changed that hose on this Astra.

[Andy B]

forgive me for being numb .... but how do the variable bit on the cam shafts move? What makes them move? SWMBO has a C3 with, what I believe is a BMW lump, that has some kind of variable cam that uses oil pressure to shift the cam timing .... I only know that as the solenoid that supplies the pressure leaks oil.

[Doctor Gollum]

forgive me for being numb .... but how do the variable bit on the cam shafts move? What makes them move? SWMBO has a C3 with, what I believe is a BMW lump, that has some kind of variable cam that uses oil pressure to shift the cam timing .... I only know that as the solenoid that supplies the pressure leaks oil.

Here do...

https://youtu.be/XpVO0aqvD08

[Andy B]

forgive me for being numb .... but how do the variable bit on the cam shafts move? What makes them move? SWMBO has a C3 with, what I believe is a BMW lump, that has some kind of variable cam that uses oil pressure to shift the cam timing .... I only know that as the solenoid that supplies the pressure leaks oil.

Here do...

https://youtu.be/XpVO0aqvD08

I want a home garage like that!!! 

[Andy B]

forgive me for being numb .... but how do the variable bit on the cam shafts move? What makes them move? SWMBO has a C3 with, what I believe is a BMW lump, that has some kind of variable cam that uses oil pressure to shift the cam timing .... I only know that as the solenoid that supplies the pressure leaks oil.

Here do...

https://youtu.be/XpVO0aqvD08

Simple really .... 
Ta Doc