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[raywilb]

apparently, an Irish teacher got himself suspended for refusing to call a pupil by a name that the pupil wished to be called 
 by & instead of accepting his paid leave suspension he went to school & sat in an empty classroom stating that he was there to work. however he was arrested & jailed by a judge until he agrees to bide by the courts ruling. the pupil in question is a transgender so it was a pronoun issue & the teacher would not call the pupil by the chosen female name.

[Lizzie Zoom]

If the pupil wanted to be called a certain name then the teacher should have respected that.  Why not?

More must be in this story, but it seems the teacher chose not to be a neutral and wished to off load his personal views onto the pupil as was done in the distant past.

I wonder how old the pupil is, but that should not be relevant.  The pupils wish (and their parents?) should have priority.

[Lizzie Zoom]

I have now read this report:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/teacher-jailed-school-suspension-pronouns-b2160904.html

The teacher was certainly jailed for contempt of court after entering the school he had been banned from. He wanted to assert his religious views onto others.  Not good, and he got what he deserved.

Being religious is certainly not a crime, but stopping others in following their peaceful beliefs and freedom of choice certainly is.

[TheBoy]

If our laws state that a minor is not old/mature enough to have sex before becoming an adult, should we not say similar about changing gender or cross dressing?

If an adult wants to change, that's fine by me.  If a child wants to, I feel they should have to wait until such time they are an adult.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

The kid in question is a boy. The teacher should refer to that boy as he/him.

We have done this for thousands of years and  it seems to work.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

If our laws state that a minor is not old/mature enough to have sex before becoming an adult, should we not say similar about changing gender or cross dressing?

If an adult wants to change, that's fine by me. If a child wants to, I feel they should have to wait until such time they are an adult.

Agreed. In other words teachers should ignore this woke crap. To pander to this kid would mean that compelled speech is OK.

[Lizzie Zoom]

The kid in question is a boy. The teacher should refer to that boy as he/him.

We have done this for thousands of years and  it seems to work.

Not if “she” / “they” they recognised as being transgendered and wishes to be addressed differently than the reacher thinks is right.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

The kid in question is a boy. The teacher should refer to that boy as he/him.

We have done this for thousands of years and  it seems to work.

Not if “she” is recognised as being transgendered and wishes to be addressed differently than the reacher thinks is right.

People can identify as they like. Good luck to them. Other people should not be compelled to go along with the delusion.

[Lizzie Zoom]

If our laws state that a minor is not old/mature enough to have sex before becoming an adult, should we not say similar about changing gender or cross dressing?

If an adult wants to change, that's fine by me.  If a child wants to, I feel they should have to wait until such time they are an adult.

But in the meantime the pupil should have the right to be called what they wish because they are recognising being transgendered.

As I have said many times, the vast majority of transgendered individuals who transition in adulthood felt they were of the opposite gender to their body from an early age.  From 5 years is common

[Lizzie Zoom]

The kid in question is a boy. The teacher should refer to that boy as he/him.

We have done this for thousands of years and  it seems to work.

Not if “she” is recognised as being transgendered and wishes to be addressed differently than the reacher thinks is right.

People can identify as they like. Good luck to them. Other people should not be compelled to go along with the delusion.

It is not a “delusion” to the individual, and that should be respected.  Why not?  Unless of course narrow minded individuals want to assert their views on others to “conform” to satisfy their own restricted lives.

That is called a dictatorship!

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Here   you go, Lizzie.

Ms. Braverman in her old job.

https://care.org.uk/news/2022/08/attorney-general-schools-dont-have-to-use-pupils-preferred-pronouns

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

The kid in question is a boy. The teacher should refer to that boy as he/him.

We have done this for thousands of years and  it seems to work.

Not if “she” is recognised as being transgendered and wishes to be addressed differently than the reacher thinks is right.

People can identify as they like. Good luck to them. Other people should not be compelled to go along with the delusion.

It is not a “delusion” to the individual, and that should be respected.  Why not?  Unless of course narrow minded individuals want to assert their views on others to “conform” to satisfy their own restricted lives.

That is called a dictatorship!

No, Lizzie. A dictatorship is where people are forced to use words they don't choose to. Compelled speech. You should know better than be on board with that.

[STEMO]

We don't have these problems in Barnsley, you're either a lad or a lass.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

We don't have these problems in Barnsley, you're either a lad or a lass.

In common with  99.99999999% of the globe.

Since when did the 0.0000000001% get to dictate the words we use?

[Lizzie Zoom]

You can post links trying to justify the anti-woke viewpoint, but we are dealing with REAL LIVES and individuals who just want to be themselves, how they feel.

There is widespread agreement that more must be done to protect those considered transgendered, especially the young, in addition to the Gender Recognition Act 2004, 2015 in Ireland.

I list the links that may interest you and help you and others to understand this human condition:

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-9078/CBP-9078.pdf

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/7

https://mermaidsuk.org.uk/news/gender-recognition-act-reform-what-happens-now/

I would also point out that this story is based on Ireland, and the school concerned ha stated:

“…..it is abiding by Ireland’s Equal Status Act 2000 by not discriminating against any student and was focused on the welfare of it’s pupils”

The laws are disjointed at the moment, in Ireland and here in the U.K., but the U.K. Equalites Act of 2010, amended in 2012, also covers how authorities should address Trans individuals, with it being an offence not to recognise vocally an individuals chosen image. The important issue is if an individual, including a child, has been recognised by the medical profession as being Transgendered.  That the gives that person the legal right to be called whatever their adopted gender status is.

As I say though, this all is a very important and serious issue for the individual involved, who I have witnessed so often going though major discomfort, distress, and ever suicide, to be who they really are.  That should be no one else’s business but themselves, and parents when a child is involved.

For a teacher to refuse to respect the law, the rules of a school as their employer, because of his personal views is out of order.  He should not be in the teaching profession if he wants to pursue his narrow minded “perfect world” .  This is 2021, not 1921.

[Lizzie Zoom]

We don't have these problems in Barnsley, you're either a lad or a lass.

In common with  99.99999999% of the globe.

Since when did the 0.0000000001% get to dictate the words we use?

Why should a minority with a medical condition be badly treated because you and others cannot live and let live?

[Lizzie Zoom]

The kid in question is a boy. The teacher should refer to that boy as he/him.

We have done this for thousands of years and  it seems to work.

Not if “she” is recognised as being transgendered and wishes to be addressed differently than the reacher thinks is right.

People can identify as they like. Good luck to them. Other people should not be compelled to go along with the delusion.

It is not a “delusion” to the individual, and that should be respected.  Why not?  Unless of course narrow minded individuals want to assert their views on others to “conform” to satisfy their own restricted lives.

That is called a dictatorship!

No, Lizzie. A dictatorship is where people are forced to use words they don't choose to. Compelled speech. You should know better than be on board with that.

So you Opti wish to call non-white people the names they were called in the past, not respecting them as equals, let alone those with disabilities!  Sometimes laws have to be introduced to protect others. In a dictatorship the state encourages its people to dicrimate.

Thank God the laws now restrict you using such offensive language.  Transgendered individuals are also protected from the very hurtful, insulting and did respectful names they are called by the ignorant.

[Doctor Gollum]

Live and let live works across the board.

Don't thrust your opinion as Gospel over others and they might just respect you and your opinion. However force feeding this utter tosh to everyone leads to this ridiculous argument every time. Without fail.

Most people are more than happy to live and let live. Those same people are not prepared to be told what and how to think.

By constantly pushing the agenda, you repeatedly disrespect the very diffences that you claim so loudly to protect. Divisity is not Inclusion no matter what pronoun you give it.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Live and let live works across the board.

Don't thrust your opinion as Gospel over others and they might just respect you and your opinion. However force feeding this utter tosh to everyone leads to this ridiculous argument every time. Without fail.

Most people are more than happy to live and let live. Those same people are not prepared to be told what and how to think.

By constantly pushing the agenda, you repeatedly disrespect the very diffences that you claim so loudly to protect. Divisity is not Inclusion no matter what pronoun you give it.

So now, typically, YOU think I am in the wrong for responding to a thread that someone else started, just because you believe the subject matter is tosh!!

I do not want to read these threads, but when some start them on the anti-woke basis I will use my democratic freedom to express my, and many others professional opinion. The poor souls who are subject to that nonsense deserve better, and will be defended by the likes of myself.

But of course YOU had to enter the discussion so you could TRY and stop my will and degrade my expressions of fact.

Ignorance, ignorance, ignorance, about a subject does not give the excuse to rubbish facts that are about real life trauma that the transgendered individuals go though.

[Doctor Gollum]

That's right, have a pop at me.

Again.

 

Besides, you do realise that this thread was started by someone completely different, and the first two replies were you jumping straight over your horse into the nearest hedge

[Lizzie Zoom]

That's right, have a pop at me.

Again.

 

Besides, you do realise that this thread was started by someone completely different, and the first two replies were you jumping straight over your horse into the nearest hedge

Of course I do!!  Do you really think that I don’t read?  If you knew my professional abilities and qualifications  you would not ask, yet again, a bloody stupid question!

As you should realise my first post was a simple reaction to the story about a transgendered child being not addressed by a teacher correctly, with his school acting correctly against that teacher.

But I suppose I was not meant to post!

[Doctor Gollum]

Well, it might have spared the interwebs of two pages of you telling everyone how wrong we all are. 

[STEMO]

It really doesn't matter to me what arguments are made for or against, I will always use him/her, he/she, and anyone who doesn't like it will just have to burst out crying. 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

That's right, have a pop at me.

Again.

 

Besides, you do realise that this thread was started by someone completely different, and the first two replies were you jumping straight over your horse into the nearest hedge

Of course I do!!  Do you really think that I don’t read?  If you knew my professional abilities and qualifications  you would not ask, yet again, a bloody stupid question!

As you should realise my first post was a simple reaction to the story about a transgendered child being not addressed by a teacher correctly, with his school acting correctly against that teacher.

But I suppose I was not meant to post!

The teacher correctly addressed a boy as a boy.

How evil is that?

[Doctor Gollum]

That's right, have a pop at me.

Again.

 

Besides, you do realise that this thread was started by someone completely different, and the first two replies were you jumping straight over your horse into the nearest hedge

Of course I do!!  Do you really think that I don’t read?  If you knew my professional abilities and qualifications  you would not ask, yet again, a bloody stupid question!

As you should realise my first post was a simple reaction to the story about a transgendered child being not addressed by a teacher correctly, with his school acting correctly against that teacher.

But I suppose I was not meant to post!

So you're allowed an opinion but no one else is... Especially the teacher making a stand for his opinion. 

And just so we're clear, your second post was typed to deliberately garner a specific response, and once again, when that response came, you got all uppity about the reply even though it was exactly the reply you intended to generate.

[Sir Tigger KC]

It really doesn't matter to me what arguments are made for or against, I will always use me/me/me, and anyone who doesn't like it will just have to burst out crying. 

Or laughing! 

[Raeturbo]

And herein is the problem… the people supporting this utter crap. FFS get real it’s 'dangle berries'. It’s bashing the normal people to satisfy the idiots all over again.

[Doctor Gollum]

After all, it's hardly a new concept...  

[Raeturbo]

https://youtube.com/shorts/a76nqsJRd9U?feature=share

        Or this rubbish, where in hell do these fools get off??

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

https://youtube.com/shorts/a76nqsJRd9U?feature=share

        Or this rubbish, where in hell do these fools get off??

The bint is as mad as a March hare.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

https://youtu.be/6IU0ZXjdUVs

Ricky Gervais has it about right.

[Lizzie Zoom]

https://youtu.be/6IU0ZXjdUVs

Ricky Gervais has it about right.

Yes, yes, all very funny, but not for those who are recognised as being transgendered and feel perhaps life is not for them in this such “perfect world”.

FFS, I am so glad so many think themselves so perfect and can criticise those with a medical condition.   

Shame on you, such perfect men.

Thank God there is more women than men on this planet.  Trouble is the men still have the likes of Putin to carry their banner!  Now that is a far far bigger problem than what you lot are rabbitting on about!

……and from a women’s point of view on the subject matter of Gervais ‘humour’, I would add that there are many women, yes born female, who are without a womb.  The poor souls were either born that way, or due to disease have had them removed.

Are the any less than us women without a womb?  Or is a man without a penis, due to a birth defect, later illness, or accident, any less a man than one who has that organ?

[Raeturbo]

No, do not blame men, the fairer sex have their share of evil bastards
https://list25.com/25-most-evil-women-in-history/

[Lizzie Zoom]

No, do not blame men, the fairer sex have their share of evil bastards
https://list25.com/25-most-evil-women-in-history/

Of course there have been evil women.  But did they start World Wars with multiple millions killed?

 

[Doctor Gollum]

https://youtu.be/6IU0ZXjdUVs

Ricky Gervais has it about right.

Yes, yes, all very funny, but not for those who are recognised as being transgendered and feel perhaps life is not for them in this such “perfect world”.

FFS, I am so glad so many think themselves so perfect and can criticise those with a medical condition.   

Shame on you, such perfect men.

Thank God there is more women than men on this planet.  Trouble is the men still have the likes of Putin to carry their banner!  Now that is a far far bigger problem than what you lot are rabbitting on about!

……and from a women’s point of view on the subject matter of Gervais ‘humour’, I would add that there are many women, yes born female, who are without a womb.  The poor souls were either born that way, or due to disease have had them removed.

Are the any less than us women without a womb?  Or is a man without a penis, due to a birth defect, later illness, or accident, any less a man than one who has that organ?

Birth defects and gender reassignment are very different things. And again by tarring very different groups with the same brush does a disservice to both.

But I don't suppose that matters as long as you are right.

[STEMO]

It really doesn't matter to me what arguments are made for or against, I will always use me/me/me, and anyone who doesn't like it will just have to burst out crying. 

Or laughing! 

No, by the sound of you, crying 

[Migalot]

Thank God the laws now restrict you using such offensive language. 

And therein lies the problem.

Restricting "offensive" language does nothing to prevent people thinking as they do. Indeed, I would argue that making any group a legally-protected minority within society is likely to create more animosity, not less.

For example, the state of race relations in this country (and in the US) has, in my view, become considerably worse since certain language has been effectively banned.

It has also had the effect of killing comedy, which is based on stereotypes.

I am old enough to remember the expression "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me". Pity the Woke brigade haven't taken that maxim on board.     

[Raeturbo]

Come on  Lizz you know better than that…😂
Women have been responsible for initiating wars at nearly every point in history.

The earliest I know of off the top of my head is Queen Tetua of Illyria who began a war by executing Roman envoys who were attempting to negotiate for her to crack down on Illyrian pirates who were threatening Roman merchants.

There’s Cleopatra of course who initiated one war to claim the throne of Egypt with Caesar backing her. Her role in the conflict between Mark Antony and Augustus is more complicated. She’s certainly been blamed for the conflict but I can’t say how much of that is legend and propaganda as I haven’t studied her in detail.

Boudica lead a very famous war against Rome. There are two accounts of her motivations, one would hardly make her the aggressor but the other is a debatable justification. Tacitus claims that when Rome attempted to annex her territory, which was a former Roman ally under her husband Prasutagus she responded by trying to assert her authority as Queen of the Iceni and successor to her husband. The Romans proceeded to flog her and having her daughter raped. Cassius Dio however claims the conflict started because of the confiscation of donations paid to influential Britons and the calling in of British debts. Boudica lead a large uprising which razed and burned three Roman towns before being defeated by Suetonius.

One of my favorites is Zenobia of Palmyra who formed a break away empire from some of Rome’s Eastern regions and proceeded to invade Egypt. She too was defeated, this time by Emperor Aurelian.

The middle ages have a variety of ruling queens, not to mention lesser feudal rulers. I’m sure there are many conflicts to choose from in this period but I don’t know any notable ones personally.

England had a few reigning Queens and plenty of wars were fought under them. Queen Anne even had a war named after her. I don’t know if that war is actually something she initiated because again it’s not something I’ve studied in detail. In most wars who started it is a matter of debate.

[ronnyd]

Come on  Lizz you know better than that…😂
Women have been responsible for initiating wars at nearly every point in history.

The earliest I know of off the top of my head is Queen Tetua of Illyria who began a war by executing Roman envoys who were attempting to negotiate for her to crack down on Illyrian pirates who were threatening Roman merchants.

There’s Cleopatra of course who initiated one war to claim the throne of Egypt with Caesar backing her. Her role in the conflict between Mark Antony and Augustus is more complicated. She’s certainly been blamed for the conflict but I can’t say how much of that is legend and propaganda as I haven’t studied her in detail.

Boudica lead a very famous war against Rome. There are two accounts of her motivations, one would hardly make her the aggressor but the other is a debatable justification. Tacitus claims that when Rome attempted to annex her territory, which was a former Roman ally under her husband Prasutagus she responded by trying to assert her authority as Queen of the Iceni and successor to her husband. The Romans proceeded to flog her and having her daughter raped. Cassius Dio however claims the conflict started because of the confiscation of donations paid to influential Britons and the calling in of British debts. Boudica lead a large uprising which razed and burned three Roman towns before being defeated by Suetonius.

One of my favorites is Zenobia of Palmyra who formed a break away empire from some of Rome’s Eastern regions and proceeded to invade Egypt. She too was defeated, this time by Emperor Aurelian.

The middle ages have a variety of ruling queens, not to mention lesser feudal rulers. I’m sure there are many conflicts to choose from in this period but I don’t know any notable ones personally.

England had a few reigning Queens and plenty of wars were fought under them. Queen Anne even had a war named after her. I don’t know if that war is actually something she initiated because again it’s not something I’ve studied in detail. In most wars who started it is a matter of debate.

There's quite a few 'old queens' about these days too Rae. 

[Raeturbo]

That’s true, and I really respect Lizz in her quest for what she believes in. But I don’t believe in it, don’t like it, and I will not be silenced by anybody ever. Putin needs to be removed the world is undoubtedly in big trouble on a multitude of levels, however pandering to this sort of nonsense is only going to make thing worse.

[Migalot]

Putin needs to be removed

I beg to disagree.

He is not the problem. If you research the 2014 Maidan Coup by the US in Ukraine, the refusal by Ukraine to implement the Minsk Agreements, the 14,000 deaths of Russian-speaking citizens in Donbass and Lugansk in 8 years from shelling by the Nazi AZOV fighters and others, the 50-odd US biolabs setup by the US in Ukraine and the training by of Ukraine forces by NATO since 2014 (admitted by Stoltenburg the other day), then I would suggest that he may have had a possible reason to step in. It is my view that this war was deliberately initiated by those who seek to destabilise Europe..and it appears they are achieving that.

Besides which, regime change is not our duty. It is entirely up to the Russian people who they want as leader (and they currently want him). 

[Sir Tigger KC]

No, do not blame men, the fairer sex have their share of evil bastards
https://list25.com/25-most-evil-women-in-history/

Of course there have been evil women.  But did they start World Wars with multiple millions killed?

 

Indirectly yes.  Eva Braun probably laughed at Adolf's single ball and he was so enraged he invaded Poland! 

[Sir Tigger KC]

It really doesn't matter to me what arguments are made for or against, I will always use me/me/me, and anyone who doesn't like it will just have to burst out crying. 

Or laughing! 

No, by the sound of you, crying 

Well I thought it was funny!     

[Raeturbo]

Putin needs to be removed

I beg to disagree.

He is not the problem. If you research the 2014 Maidan Coup by the US in Ukraine, the refusal by Ukraine to implement the Minsk Agreements, the 14,000 deaths of Russian-speaking citizens in Donbass and Lugansk in 8 years from shelling by the Nazi AZOV fighters and others, the 50-odd US biolabs setup by the US in Ukraine and the training by of Ukraine forces by NATO since 2014 (admitted by Stoltenburg the other day), then I would suggest that he may have had a possible reason to step in. It is my view that this war was deliberately initiated by those who seek to destabilise Europe..and it appears they are achieving that.

Besides which, regime change is not our duty. It is entirely up to the Russian people who they want as leader (and they currently want him).

                 Fair enough and I see your point of view but that’s the past, at the moment we need to concentrate on the now and the future. Besides I don’t think Putin is conducive to world peace, and he has been trying to procure this war since he took office.

[Raeturbo]

And he’s a knob

[Lizzie Zoom]

That’s true, and I really respect Lizz in her quest for what she believes in. But I don’t believe in it, don’t like it, and I will not be silenced by anybody ever. Putin needs to be removed the world is undoubtedly in big trouble on a multitude of levels, however pandering to this sort of nonsense is only going to make thing worse.

I respect your point of view as well 

But how to “pandering” to people with a real, recognised, gender dysphoria condition going to make things worse than what we and this world is facing now?

6,000 individuals have gone through the full gender reassignment, Gender Recognition process, with a certificate to assist them to change their legal status.  No one know how many are still living in fear, absolute distress, with suicidal thoughts, because they cannot find the support from society, or even members of their own family.  Their condition, as I have said many, many times, is very real and those that have managed to go through the whole process have been so relieved, delighted, absolutely over the moon, to finally they can say “this is me!”

I have met so many who have removed a big black cloud from over them, and now love the freedom of being themselves, not pretending to be someone they were not from an early age.

But it is estimated, and that is all it can be based on medical reports, 300,000 to 600,000 individuals, real living, flesh and blood, people, not just statistics, identifying themselves as transgender, including a further percentage as non-binary.  That is 1% of the U.K. population, and that level is reflected roughly across the world, but of course in some countries it is illegal to be even gay, let alone trans!

This condition cannot possibly make the war in Ukraine, or the other many World challenges, worse!  How can it possibly do so?

As for women starting wars, I deliberately asked did women start World wars that killed millions?

The answer is “No”.  To suggest Eva Braun made Hitler go to war is just not true.  Hitler took little notice of her, or any women, even though they adored him.  He, an extremely mentally disturbed man, who was only interested in power and carrying out his extreme wishes to create a white, Aryan  super race state and destroying everyone else.  Women were not top of his priority list!

[Raeturbo]

I think you’ll find mr trigger was just joking about on that one ball theory 🤣😂

[Lizzie Zoom]

I think you’ll find mr trigger was just joking about on that one ball theory 🤣😂

Yes, I know, but just in case……..I will always try and place a true historical prospective on things

[Sir Tigger KC]

I think you’ll find mr trigger was just joking about on that one ball theory 🤣😂

That's Sir Trigger to you mate!   

[Raeturbo]

🙀👍

[ronnyd]

Putin needs to be removed

I beg to disagree.

He is not the problem. If you research the 2014 Maidan Coup by the US in Ukraine, the refusal by Ukraine to implement the Minsk Agreements, the 14,000 deaths of Russian-speaking citizens in Donbass and Lugansk in 8 years from shelling by the Nazi AZOV fighters and others, the 50-odd US biolabs setup by the US in Ukraine and the training by of Ukraine forces by NATO since 2014 (admitted by Stoltenburg the other day), then I would suggest that he may have had a possible reason to step in. It is my view that this war was deliberately initiated by those who seek to destabilise Europe..and it appears they are achieving that.

Besides which, regime change is not our duty. It is entirely up to the Russian people who they want as leader (and they currently want him).

                 Fair enough and I see your point of view but that’s the past, at the moment we need to concentrate on the now and the future. Besides I don’t think Putin is conducive to world peace, and he has been trying to procure this war since he took office.

Unfortunately, certain nations especially in the Balkans, have very long memories and harbour grudges for millennia. 

[Raeturbo]

Yep👍

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Maybe I have Balkan blood in my veins. I have never been able to do forgive and forget. 
Consequently, I have no relationship whatsoever with any blood relatives other than my two children.