Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: takemineanywhere on 20 October 2013, 18:49:40
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after trying to drive through a flooded road.water just below the door.Stalled halfway through. Would not resrart.Flattened battery trying.RAC wouldn't come until car was out of the water!!!!Bugger.After concil/waterboard cleared the burst main RAC came & found water in the airfilter pipe to the manifold.
Understandably he didn,t try to start the car but towed me to my local mechanic whose going to have look tomorrow.He said i might be lucky or might not.
So,what should i expect?.......Cars a2.5TD..... I thought tractors could go anywhere. Cheers.
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If you have go a reasonable amount of water in the inlet, its likely its hydrauliced itself. This will end in bent conrods, as water doesn't compress too well :'(
Also, water can get sucked up the exhaust as it stalls, which also fills the cylinders with water, same result.
Initially, I'd be popping out injectors, and turning over on starter for a couple of seconds (no longer) to clear any fluids from cylinders, then putting it all back together, bleeding, and trying.
Depends how much water it has ingested....
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Oh dear sounds as if water has got in the engine which is usually terminal, :'( as TB has said it would have Hydrauliced. Did it turn over when you cranked it if so you might be lucky and the water has only got in electrics in some way.
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It did turn over a few times before battery went down.Not sure but there seemed to be vibration/ shaking from the gearbox area
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in a word lots!! intake for airfilter is halfway up the radiator at best, as said you have probably bent conrods hence the vibration,however fingers crossed it just stopped,but i think i would be looking for a replacement engine in the meantime
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tractors can go anywhere if air suction point below water level and there is no leak :(
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takemineanywhere, well obviously not ::) Sorry mate, couldn,t resist. Hope you sort it out soon. :y
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tractors can go anywhere if air suction point below water level and there is no leak :(
above..
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If it was only door height, you must have been going some speed to create a bow wave big enough :o
I've certainly had my tractor in deeper puddles than above the bottom of the door - selected a low gear and kept revs as high as I could (it was an auto) and proceeded slowly on the way to the OOF Newent meet a few years back. This shoudl stop water entering inlet, and the revs stop it entering exhaust.
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Easiest way to check would be to remove the air filter and see if it's damp, and if there is evidence of water in the ducts downstream of it.
The fact that it now doesn't start doesn't bode well, but that might just be because the air filter has got saturated and is blocking intake air.
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no was goiing very slow.i cant understand how it got in the air intake.RAC man took off pipe after airfilter & saw water going through.Working todaylate so not seen my man.Will know more tomorrow.Will let u know.Remember its a weak battery so it didnt turn over very long.
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Given that the air intake is only half way up the radiator and in front of it, you don't need much of a bow wave in front of you before it's submerged!
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. its the worst diagnosis.Theres water evertwhere even in the pump.Looks like the end of her.Shame i loved that car.In the 3 years ive had it i trie to get it uptogether .(new tires,shocks,discs/pads,bushes front & rear,exhaust,
rackrods)
So what can i do now?Will insurance give me anything?Or does anyone have adecent TD engine.Idont have any where to break it.what should i take off to recoup some money if i scrap it. Thanks for your help.
s
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Insurance will write it off, cost of garage changing engine plus sourcing one would be huge.
Best bet would be to DIY engine swap, been there done that on a very wet and rainy day on a 2.5 TD.
Little tip if you do, get it high enough to take the gearbox & engine out together. Also put it back together as one :y
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Reason why? I remember being sent to a very wet ground,, to get the bloody gearbox and engine to line up and bolt them together.
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Agreed. If you love the car,source another engine, and fit it yourself. :y
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Reason why? I remember being sent to a very wet ground,, to get the bloody gearbox and engine to line up and bolt them together.
The morning was nice and sunny :P. As was the day LFF64 and I took it out again, and put the original back in.
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Drop the full fat lump in it :y that's begging to become a 2.5dti...
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bin down the pub drowning my sorrows.What is this full fat job? Tax end the month so just aweek to decide
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BMW engine was detuned when it was installed in the Omega.
Same engine was used in BMW and Range Rover with different ECU chip for different power output.
Fitting a different ECU chip can be done at any time, first task is to find a good Omega/BMW/Range Rover 2.5 TD
I assume ex taxi al is referring to a later BMW engine that never got fitted to the Omega but would just drop straight in. The problem would be what to do with the ECU, you would want to fit the donor ECU to get it to run at its best but you would probably have to overcome some electrical issues to get it working (immobiliser for example)
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Also, water can get sucked up the exhaust as it stalls, which also fills the cylinders with water, same result.
Sorry but this is just cobblers, or dangle berries, choose your preferred term. Anyone with any understanding of the 4 stroke cycle will know that an engine will not suck up its exhaust. I know it's an esteemed admin saying it but sometimes you just have to speak up when someone talks out of their exhaust.
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Also, water can get sucked up the exhaust as it stalls, which also fills the cylinders with water, same result.
Sorry but this is just cobblers, or dangle berries, choose your preferred term. Anyone with any understanding of the 4 stroke cycle will know that an engine will not suck up its exhaust. I know its an esteemed admin saying it but sometimes you just have to speak up when someone talks out of their exhaust.
Never heard of back pressure then? :-\
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Also, water can get sucked up the exhaust as it stalls, which also fills the cylinders with water, same result.
Sorry but this is just cobblers, or dangle berries, choose your preferred term. Anyone with any understanding of the 4 stroke cycle will know that an engine will not suck up its exhaust. I know its an esteemed admin saying it but sometimes you just have to speak up when someone talks out of their exhaust.
Never heard of back pressure then? :-\
Sure have. Have you?
pressure
ˈprɛʃə/
noun
noun: pressure
1.
continuous physical force exerted on or against an object by something in contact with it.
"the gate was buckling under the pressure of the crowd outside"
suction
ˈsʌkʃ(ə)n/
noun
noun: suction
1.
the production of a partial vacuum by the removal of air in order to force fluid into a vacant space or procure adhesion.
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BMW engine was detuned when it was installed in the Omega.
Same engine was used in BMW and Range Rover with different ECU chip for different power output.
Fitting a different ECU chip can be done at any time, first task is to find a good Omega/BMW/Range Rover 2.5 TD
I assume ex taxi al is referring to a later BMW engine that never got fitted to the Omega but would just drop straight in. The problem would be what to do with the ECU, you would want to fit the donor ECU to get it to run at its best but you would probably have to overcome some electrical issues to get it working (immobiliser for example)
That's an option, for sure :y
I was actually refering to the running gear from...
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Opel-Omega-Caravan-2-5-DTI-Edition-AHK-NAVI-ALU-/350895026762?pt=Automobile&hash=item51b2f9324a
150bhp :y
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Normal running its not going to suck in, but as it stalls it would. Seen it a few times here, during the floods.
Few cars have bought it this way :'(
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When the airfilter clogs, it stands to reason that some of the exhaust gasses will be drawn back into the lower pressure caused by piston downstrokes.
Whilst this is unlikely to draw water all the way along the exhaust, it does significantly reduce the pressure within the exhaust :y
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Normal running its not going to suck in, but as it stalls it would. Seen it a few times here, during the floods.
Few cars have bought it this way :'(
Perhaps you can explain the mechanics of how that works then.
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Also, water can get sucked up the exhaust as it stalls, which also fills the cylinders with water, same result.
Sorry but this is just cobblers, or dangle berries, choose your preferred term. Anyone with any understanding of the 4 stroke cycle will know that an engine will not suck up its exhaust. I know its an esteemed admin saying it but sometimes you just have to speak up when someone talks out of their exhaust.
Never heard of back pressure then? :-\
Sure have. Have you?
pressure
ˈprɛʃə/
noun
noun: pressure
1.
continuous physical force exerted on or against an object by something in contact with it.
"the gate was buckling under the pressure of the crowd outside"
suction
ˈsʌkʃ(ə)n/
noun
noun: suction
1.
the production of a partial vacuum by the removal of air in order to force fluid into a vacant space or procure adhesion.
I canz uze Google.
Gold Star!
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When the airfilter clogs, it stands to reason that some of the exhaust gasses will be drawn back into the lower pressure caused by piston downstrokes.
Whilst this is unlikely to draw water all the way along the exhaust, it does significantly reduce the pressure within the exhaust :y
There's that word again. 'Pressure', 'reduced pressure', neither is going to suck up water. There is some dangle berries talked on this forum.
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Also, water can get sucked up the exhaust as it stalls, which also fills the cylinders with water, same result.
Sorry but this is just cobblers, or dangle berries, choose your preferred term. Anyone with any understanding of the 4 stroke cycle will know that an engine will not suck up its exhaust. I know its an esteemed admin saying it but sometimes you just have to speak up when someone talks out of their exhaust.
Never heard of back pressure then? :-\
Sure have. Have you?
pressure
ˈprɛʃə/
noun
noun: pressure
1.
continuous physical force exerted on or against an object by something in contact with it.
"the gate was buckling under the pressure of the crowd outside"
suction
ˈsʌkʃ(ə)n/
noun
noun: suction
1.
the production of a partial vacuum by the removal of air in order to force fluid into a vacant space or procure adhesion.
I canz uze Google.
Gold Star!
Now you're just being silly. Those are dictionary definitions. I didn't write a dictionary, I use one. How about you explain the exhaust sucking instead of being petty.
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Funny you should say that, I was (in part) agreeing with you >:(
Place a straw in a half full glass. Blow firmly into the straw and air is forced down the straw preventing liquid from entering it. Stop blowing, and the liquid will flow back into the straw.
If the tailpipe is partially submerged, water will flow up it as the gasses escape. In reality, not much water will get past the back box, as once the engine stalls there will be no pressure, positive or negative, in the system to neither draw the water further in nor to expell it.
Pretty simple physics really ::)
I had overlooked the thermal side of things :-[ but once cooled and waterlogged, there won't be much of anything going anywhere :-\ guess only hope is to remove the intake duct from the throttle and pray the engine turns over. and fires
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Engine HOT, Exhaust HOT.
Stalled in standing water, Exhaust Pipe below water line. Water floods the exhaust system causing rapid cooling.
Cooler air is much less dense, pulls water further into Exhaust system.
Not possible huh?
Had much experience of 4x4 driving through shed loads of water?
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Not been on this thread since page one.
Click new posts, and come to this page and the two posts above.
On reading them, bets a large amount of money that dbdb has posted on page 2.
Click page 2.
Yep, I win. ;D
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;D that's like betting that today is Friday...
Sorry, no prize :P
ps you should see the spark plug thread ::)
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I find it quite funny, that in the face of complete and utter proof water is in the engine, as poor takemineanywhere has already stated on page 1...
. its the worst diagnosis.Theres water evertwhere even in the pump.Looks like the end of her.
... yet still dbdb think's it's impossible for water to enter the engine through the exhaust ::)
How about instead of being argumentative, you try and actually help the OP? Suggest resources for replacement engine, help out, advice on doing work, nahh, lets just start an argument. ::)
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Absolutely Tunnie, he's no help to anyone. Posts nothing constructive and is a negative influence on all he touches.
I suspect he's an alias tbh. Nobody is that obtuse.
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Although, I must say, there was a time when admin would tidy up such a thread. Move the debate posts to another thread and leave the help alone.
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Although, I must say, there was a time when admin would tidy up such a thread. Move the debate posts to another thread and leave the help alone.
All very busy these days and understandably got better things to do than sort out crap like this :(
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Although, I must say, there was a time when admin would tidy up such a thread. Move the debate posts to another thread and leave the help alone.
Admin should not have to "tidy up" the forum, they have better things to do with their time.
Perhaps if people stopped responding to these crass posts the perpetrator would give up and go elsewhere ?? After all, every troll only wants an audience.
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Although, I must say, there was a time when admin would tidy up such a thread. Move the debate posts to another thread and leave the help alone.
Admin should not have to "tidy up" the forum, they have better things to do with their time.
Perhaps if people stopped responding to these crass posts the perpetrator would give up and go elsewhere ?? After all, every troll only wants an audience.
Quite so. But there was most certainly a time... "This post has been moved to this topic" iirc...? Was there not? :)
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Maybe its a software limitation, I don't recall seeing it on smf? :-\
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Anyway, apologies to the op.
Sorry to hear about your lovely car. Will you fix or replace it? :'(
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Anyway, apologies to the op.
Sorry to hear about your lovely car. Will you fix or replace it? :'(
Think an engine replacement is best route, (to save the car) which is a major job. Some big beer tokens would need to be offered, I wonder if Daz or James might be interested :-\
Other option is source another car, then just transfer all new bits over, as they sound quite recent additions. (shocks, discs ect)
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I have some concerns regarding the initial diagnosis.
I am struggling to see where water can get into the pump given that it is a sealed unit with the only fluid being diesel within it.
When diesel engines hydraulic, they tend to do this in a very spectacular manner.
For me the checks would be.
Air filter - state and as a temporary measure, remove.
Oil - check level and if increased, crack the sump plug and see if water comes out, drain until oil is seen, re-check level.
Water - check level, if down top up and see if it remains
Then I would remove the injectors and crank the engine over watching for water exiting the injector holes, also watch for fuel exiting the injector lines.
Then re-fit injectors and go for it....there is at the end of the day, nothing to lose.
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Hmmm, on thinking further, after reading Marks post.
I've seen two stroke bike engines hydrolock on petrol, when the float bowl needle stuck open. Engine was kicked over, then bumped repeatedly, as the fault was then unknown and it was a bit if a ratter anyway.
It eventually fired after a halo of liquid was seen exiting around the cylinder head. Clearly it had lifted the head, and probably stretched the head bolts. The fault was then more clear, the float needle replaced, and the engine went on to do considerable miles there after.
I'm not saying the compression levels where comparable mind, but considerable abuse is possible before all is lost.
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Can recommend these people for a replacement :y
http://turner-engineering.co.uk (http://turner-engineering.co.uk)
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As said, there's no mechanism for the water to get into the pump (unless it came in via the fuel tank) so sounds to me like a 2nd opinion is needed. I'm guessing someone either doesn't want the job or hasn't got a clue how the engine works. ::)
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. its the worst diagnosis.Theres water evertwhere even in the pump.Looks like the end of her.Shame i loved that car.In the 3 years ive had it i trie to get it uptogether .(new tires,shocks,discs/pads,bushes front & rear,exhaust,
rackrods)
So what can i do now?Will insurance give me anything?Or does anyone have adecent TD engine.Idont have any where to break it.what should i take off to recoup some money if i scrap it. Thanks for your help.
s
It would help to know what exactly was meant by 'everywhere', (and I am also at a loss as to how it can have got in the pump), if there is no mechanical damage, a complete drying out and proceed as suggested by the Master would at least prove whether or not the mechanics are damaged. If it is you will have lost nothing more than your time. :y :y :y
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I also wonder how he found water in the pump. Did he strip it down? :o (in which case, good luck in getting it put back together properly).
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Sorry for not replying earlier,been away for the weekend.Just back now.I,ll ask for a more detailed explanation
tomorrow.If not convinced i,ll get a second opinion & try the suggestions given.Many thanks.Ihaven,t given up
yet.
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Sorry for not replying earlier,been away for the weekend.Just back now.I,ll ask for a more detailed explanation
tomorrow.If not convinced i,ll get a second opinion & try the suggestions given.Many thanks.Ihaven,t given up
yet.
I know nowt about diseasels in particular, but an engine is an engine when it comes to hydraulic lock, and I'm not far from Swindon, Shackeng knows a fair bit about diseasels and is also fairly close. Between us we have a fair selection of tools !!
I'm sure between us we could do a decent diagnosis ... :)
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Sorry for not replying earlier,been away for the weekend.Just back now.I,ll ask for a more detailed explanation
tomorrow.If not convinced i,ll get a second opinion & try the suggestions given.Many thanks.Ihaven,t given up
yet.
Good man. :y
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Thats very kind of you Entwood.Will post again when i know more & got the car towed back to my place.
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I'm sure between us we could do a decent diagnosis ... :)
I should think you can .... you have enough years experience between the pair of you ................. ::) ::) ::)
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So good to have people that will help out long may it continue. :y
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I'm sure between us we could do a decent diagnosis ... :)
I should think you can .... you have enough years experience between the pair of you ................. ::) ::) ::)
:)
But his is on Rolls Royce Griffons and mine is on Alison T56-15 ... neither of which used diseasal ..
:)
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I'm sure that if nothing else was available, both could be persuaded to run on the stuff, albeit briefly ::)
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Diesel engines are much simpler than petrol, dead easy :y
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.....
I'm sure between us we could do a decent diagnosis ... :)
I should think you can .... you have enough years experience between the pair of you ................. ::) ::) ::)
:)
But his is on Rolls Royce Griffons and mine is on Alison T56-15 ... neither of which used diseasal ..
:)
And that was a very long time ago!!! I'm...possibly....more up to date on RB211's! ::)
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And that was a very long time ago!!! I'm...possibly....more up to date on RB211's! ::)
An RB211 has no chance of fitting under the bonnet of an Omega, though. A Griffon, on the other hand <rubs chin>. ;)
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And that was a very long time ago!!! I'm...possibly....more up to date on RB211's! ::)
An RB211 has no chance of fitting under the bonnet of an Omega, though. A Griffon, on the other hand <rubs chin>. ;)
I know someone who has one or two ::)
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And that was a very long time ago!!! I'm...possibly....more up to date on RB211's! ::)
An RB211 has no chance of fitting under the bonnet of an Omega, though. A Griffon, on the other hand <rubs chin>. ;)
But it will just about fit in the back of an estate, with a touch of Astramax styling.... ::)
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Hi all Its the end of the old girl.Took injectors out & tried turning over with fully charged battery.Nothing.Funny noise from starter motor & then smoke.Anyway local breaker gave me £200.Riding my BM inthe pissing rain until
another car is sorted out.Iwould like another tractor so if any one knows of a good one with under 120K on it
please let me know.
Can i say a bg thankyou to all of you on the forum for helping me with my car since i got it.I,ve learnt
a lot from you .your a great bunch of guys.I,ll still be looking in & enjoying the banter but for now its adios.
cheers Paul takemineanywhere(not)
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Hi all Its the end of the old girl.Took injectors out & tried turning over with fully charged battery.Nothing.Funny noise from starter motor & then smoke.Anyway local breaker gave me £200.Riding my BM inthe pissing rain until
another car is sorted out.Iwould like another tractor so if any one knows of a good one with under 120K on it
please let me know.
Can i say a bg thankyou to all of you on the forum for helping me with my car since i got it.I,ve learnt
a lot from you .your a great bunch of guys.I,ll still be looking in & enjoying the banter but for now its adios.
cheers Paul takemineanywhere(not)
Sorry to hear that Paul. Was good to have met you on our Omega travels, and hope that we will again cross paths.
Stick around here, it's a belter of a site :y
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Yeah don't burger off mate... stick around :y
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At least you can say that you had a damn good go at it. Best of luck and stick around. :y
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That's a shame :(
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I used to buy flood cars from insurance auctions. Damage depends on water level.
Most common:
One connecting rod is bent (if water went in), electrical problems. They are toys for experienced engine mechanic + electrical problems.
10K car can be bought for about 3K, not much money is needed for parts. Last flood car I bought about 4 years ago, it was 06 Mitsubishi Eclipse. I replaced connecting rod/rings and repaired minor front bumper cover damage. I enjoyed driving it for a few months. My wife loved it, it was stick shift with 265 HP engine.