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[nell77]

just come across this, It might help if you have to strip it down. Vauxhall V6 Engine Course.pdf

http://www.mediafire.com/?lzzmyzymmdt

[feeutfo]

So, lets try to pin point the cylinder.

Get it running and bung tech 2 on....cut the cylinders 1 at a time.

The 'hi tech' version of pulling the plug leads one at a time

.. and I wish I'd remembered it before stripping it down to look for lifter problems.

Kevin

i'm free evenings this week kev....but do we rebiuid, or dismantel further?

[2woody]

mine sounded JUST like a stuck lifter. It certainly had me fooled.

Last week, I took the sump off just to have a look-see. Now despite having to drop the subframe, it only took a couple of hours off and a couple on again - and I was able to put in some bearings as well, which cured 90% of the knocking.

I'm back down south again next week - I'd be pleased to come and do the same for you - you can't throw it away just because of a big-end failure.

as well as that, I now have five spare con-rods, so if it's spun a bearing, then you can have one of those. OK, so you've got to pull the head off, but it's relatively easy.

[cem_devecioglu]

mine sounded JUST like a stuck lifter. It certainly had me fooled.

Last week, I took the sump off just to have a look-see. Now despite having to drop the subframe, it only took a couple of hours off and a couple on again - and I was able to put in some bearings as well, which cured 90% of the knocking.

I'm back down south again next week - I'd be pleased to come and do the same for you - you can't throw it away just because of a big-end failure.

as well as that, I now have five spare con-rods, so if it's spun a bearing, then you can have one of those. OK, so you've got to pull the head off, but it's relatively easy.

definitely..

[Kevin Wood]

as well as that, I now have five spare con-rods, so if it's spun a bearing, then you can have one of those. OK, so you've got to pull the head off, but it's relatively easy.

Well worth bearing in mind. Thanks.

Couldn't feel any play in the bottom end using your suggested method but the top end of that bank looks to have nothing wrong, so I suspect something piston/rod/bearing related.

Kevin

[Bent valve]

Just a thought, but you could have accidentaly mixed up the firing order if you have changed the plugs. Easy to do if you have aftermarket leads. If a cylinder fires too early on  the compression stroke it can make a horrific piston slap noise that sounds like something far more serious.
I know this from experience as I once had a 2 litre pinto engine in a Transit  that had blown the head gasket between cylinders, and one cylinder was igniting the other. it sounded so bad I took the sump off before the head as I was so convinced I would find a loose bearing cap or similar.

[Omegatoy]

this may be of absolutely no use at all, but
when i bought the courtenay turbo omega, it had a strange engine noise which is why i got it cheap, anyway the noise was very hard to pinpoint as it appeared to be coming from the cam area, and apparently the previous owner had had 2 or 3 mechanics look and listen to the engine and 2 of them were sure the noise was top end. anyway when i had it home (it drove perfectly from essex to oxford apart from the noise) and had a good look and listen and a few exploratory pokes inside, i discovered that the big end had wornbadly and the noise was the pistons just catching the valve but not actually damaging it!! so the compresssions were good and the engine ran fine would tick over all day and drive although i didnt rev it high!! have heard it on  couple of other v6 engines as well, so i think yoiu could do worse than look for the same thing?
jm2pw
G 

always appreciated, but if its bottom end damage, then its off to be made into baked bean cans 

I heard your turbo (black one?) the noise sounds different to me, but that was a long time ago  :-/


But then I think we've explored all possibilities near the top  :-/

we placed an extension bar down the plug hole with all plugs removed and turned the engine over by hand via the crank pully bolt, feeling for loss of motion at top and bottom dead centre via the extension bar, and wrocking back and forth on the crank pulley bolt, all nice and tight no loss of motion on any cylinder.
 
Expecting bottom end crank bearing noise to be deader deeper noise than what we have, if that makes sense.

There are no visible marks on the piston crowns wnen looking line of sight through the plug hole.

However not sure if this engine has half moon valve shape cut outs in the piston crowns, we could not see any, so not sure if the a valve mark collision in the piston crown would be visible via the plug hole. Its not possible to see the piston full area via the plug hole via line of site. The piston crown is curently wet with oil so any marks would be shown if in line of site.

that threw me as well no loss of mvement and discernible play on the bottom end just the tapping at the top, however when the engine was stinking hot you could hear the bottom end rumble ove4r the top of the tapping from the cams? if that makes sense?

[feeutfo]

Just a thought, but you could have accidentaly mixed up the firing order if you have changed the plugs. Easy to do if you have aftermarket leads. If a cylinder fires too early on  the compression stroke it can make a horrific piston slap noise that sounds like something far more serious.
I know this from experience as I once had a 2 litre pinto engine in a Transit  that had blown the head gasket between cylinders, and one cylinder was igniting the other. it sounded so bad I took the sump off before the head as I was so convinced I would find a loose bearing cap or similar.

it is indeed easy to do new(new to the car, but used) leads where not original, not numbered and the lengths where all wrong, got 4 and 6 arse backwards initially. Once corrected it ran ok, except for the noise of course.
 Seen a couple of omegas with bad missfires now, none made a noise like this.
 

[TheBoy]

Just a thought, but you could have accidentaly mixed up the firing order if you have changed the plugs. Easy to do if you have aftermarket leads. If a cylinder fires too early on  the compression stroke it can make a horrific piston slap noise that sounds like something far more serious.
I know this from experience as I once had a 2 litre pinto engine in a Transit  that had blown the head gasket between cylinders, and one cylinder was igniting the other. it sounded so bad I took the sump off before the head as I was so convinced I would find a loose bearing cap or similar.

They are correct (now!), but the noise was there with the original, undisturbed leads.

[2woody]

what's the latest Kevin ~?

[Kevin Wood]

what's the latest Kevin ~?

Haven't had a chance to do any more diagnosis. Plan is for it to be collected tomorrow and taken to Mark'sDTM for him to have a look.

In summary, sounds like the driver's side bank is the cluprit, collapsed lifter was the latest theory but we've had the cam cover off the driver's side and no excessive valve clearances found.

Idle was slightly unstable but we found the brake servo hose had chafed causing an air leak. Taped this up and it idles rock solid but noisy.

Have also visually checked the intake valves moving on the passenger side bank - all OK. No signs of a failed lifter. Could be a collapsed lifter on one of the exhaust valves on that bank, I guess.

Failing that it's surgery of a more major variety.

Kevin

[Marks DTM Calib]

This should be arriving to take up SWMBO's parking spot on Thursday.

I will probably not get chance to look at it until Monday.....but you never know.

[Jimbob]

This should be arriving to take up SWMBO's parking spot on Thursday.

I will probably not get chance to look at it until Monday.....but you never know.

Does she know yet? 

[Matchless]

This should be arriving to take up SWMBO's parking spot on Thursday.

/whisper mode whats the tyres like on this Mark? I need to swap my fronts. Also is there any play in the steering box, he wouldnt notice if I swapped it as he rarely has the wheels pointing straight ahead /whisper mode

Give me a shout when you are ready to start Mark, I could do with a laugh break from kitchen fitting.

[Kevin Wood]

This should be arriving to take up SWMBO's parking spot on Thursday.

/whisper mode whats the tyres like on this Mark? I need to swap my fronts. Also is there any play in the steering box, he wouldnt notice if I swapped it as he rarely has the wheels pointing straight ahead /whisper mode

Give me a shout when you are ready to start Mark, I could do with a laugh break from kitchen fitting.

There's no play in the steering box. I compared it to mine. In fact....Arggh No, the steering box is shot, and it looks like some cowboy has swapped it for a facelift one.

Kevin