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[Mr.OmegaMan]

how is camber adjusted on these?

Webby did you mean how is camber adjusted on the ATS  4 wheel alinement system 

if so  . .  .it's probably not  . . .just wheel alinement i would think 

60 odd quid as well  . . .

May as well have the full set up for a bit more cost at  WIM or a nearer local  franchise  IMO

Forgive me but what/who is/are WIM .. I come up with all sorts of results on google like this http://wim.co/ .. Somewhere near Anglesey would be needed otherwise i'll just have to use ATS or local garages 

sorry, just presumed you would have known of them    Wheels in Motion, specialist alignment & steering geometry  company . They have other franchises in other towns I think 

Thanks Al,

If Chesham is their only garage they wouldn't be an option for me that would work out at roughly 600miles there and back 

[Mr.OmegaMan]

http://www.blackboots.co.uk/tyre-fitting-centres.php

Thanks Rob, But 210miles there and back roughly 

EDIT: Just checked how much they charge anyway. £114.00

[chrisgixer]

There is no need for full geo simply because of a tre change.

There is also a guide on setting toe by eye on here  why we bother with the guides I'm not sure, but the steering wheel is your best guide. Obviously yours is out 


If you change one tre, then adjust it to the guide, and then again so the steering is straight. Then do the other tre, repeating the process, you can get the toe setting pretty much cock on after changing tre's on both sides. But it takes a lot of patience and repeating a very awkward process, especially if the adjusters are stiff. (Which they won't be if changing the whole tre for new, but will be stiff if just changing the outer end ball joint only, for example)

So for the op, if one side has not been touched, you can adjust the new one until the steering is straight again. Or at least back where it was.
......However, I would never suggest driving an omega long term after steering or suspension work without checking the relevant settings are actually correct.

Also...  its worth getting an omega set up once a year. So if yours hasn't been done for a while, and given it needs a setting checked, as Kev says, you may as well get the whole set up looked at at least, while your at it.

Wim do charge per set up. Where as Micheldever group charge by each setting, with no cost just to measure. This would suit your purposes better,again, as Kev says.



Wim do a much better job than the other Micheldever group franchises, such as pro tyre in Slough. But then Wim's charging may or may not suit your needs. You pays your money....

Hth

[Mr.OmegaMan]

Thanks Chris 

Don't think i'll try and do it myself.

The TRE wasn't a new replacement but a good used genuine one from OSP no play at all good rubber no cracks etc. and being used and from an Omega it's not far off what it should be. Passenger front it was had to change it after the idler went it must have knackered the tre.

Anyways what i'll probably do for now is give a few larger tyre garages a call see what they can offer and their prices and if their cheaper than ATS give them a go for tracking but if they do a geo setup might give that a go, I'll update on the prices I get when I call them will probably be sometime next week now..

Planning on getting the tyres from blackcircles unless I can make a deal with one of these tyre garages for the whole lot tyres, balancing, tracking or geo.

Thanks all     

[chrisgixer]

Fair enough, they are a Pita to adjust if even remotely stiff.

[05omegav6]

Wheels In Motion, based in Chesham, with approved outlets all around the Uk. All on their website. Have a look and then ring them. If they can't recommend a place in North Wales, noone can

Their Head Office charge OOF members £65, believe the regular price is £90.

Nigel Langs in Bolton, not sooo far away, (as used by Jimbob etc), have a good reputation but not sure on cost.

As someone who has had tyres destroyed in less than a week by poor set ups, I can only recommend getting the job done once and done properly

[Mr.OmegaMan]

 

http://m.blackcircles.com/mt/www.blackcircles.com/catalogue/kumho/ku39/235/45/R17/Y/97/f?returnurl=%2forder%2ftyres%3f&tyre=27167118
Planning to go for Khumo 235/45/17 from blackcircles if I get them from there.  I think tunnie gave these positive results.

Will update next week on this tracking business ..

 

[Big_Al]

Wheels In Motion, based in Chesham, with approved outlets all around the Uk. All on their website. Have a look and then ring them. If they can't recommend a place in North Wales, noone can

Their Head Office charge OOF members £65, believe the regular price is £90.

Nigel Langs in Bolton, not sooo far away, (as used by Jimbob etc), have a good reputation but not sure on cost.

As someone who has had tyres destroyed in less than a week by poor set ups, I can only recommend getting the job done once and done properly

must be worth a phone call to ask of their nearest recommended outlet.

If you have no knowledge of the car ever  having a full geometry set up, i think general opinion on this forum would be to have it done .

But of course i agree with others that just for a TRE  change full geo is not needed.

[terry paget]

Hi omegaman2.2. I have long suffered wheel not centred after changing track rod ends. I used to adjust toe-in with a home made adjustable length rod but this was not satisfactory. I then found a better way, which has the advantage that it also centres the steering wheel on straight ahead setting. Here it is.

0. Get a long straight plank, as long as the car.

1. Ensure both track rods adjust easily. You may need to take them off the car to do this.

2. Jack front of car up, then place axle stands plus wooden blocks under the ends of the wishbones, lower the front of the car so that is it supported by the axle stands and the front suspension is normally loaded.

3. Set the steering wheel straight.

4. Support a long straight plank so that it touched the rear wheel and front wheels on one side. Adjust that side track rod until it touches both tyres on both sides. Repeat other side of car.

5. Clamp track rod adjusters. Check with plank. When all OK, jack car up, remove axle stands, lower.

6. Take for test drive. Have cuppa. Tell wife how clever you are.

[05omegav6]

Noooo....

They single key component in the steering geometry is the pitman arm that connects the steering box to the steering arm.

The steering has variable assistance, which drops away to almost nothing around the straight ahead position.

It is essential that both the idler and pitman arm are parallel to the chassis rails. Any deviation will result in the steering assistance becoming unpredictable and potentially dangerous.

Also rear track rod length has a significant impact on the steering axis, hence the importance of ensuring that the car is correctly set up.

Also, whilst the plank method is a reasonable one in theory, it only works if the front and rear tracks are the same.

They aren't.

[Jimbob]

Don't use the place in Ellesmere Port. They should have been removed from the map. Their main business is part worn tyres....

[chrisgixer]

Terry, re no. 2

The way that reads suggests;

Loading the wishbone in a dangerous way that could easily result in damage...? Ie bent wishbone. It's not designed to take vertical load.

How can the end of the wishbone be supported if the wheel is fitted?



Or have I read that wrongly?

[terry paget]

I support the wishbone with an axle stand with a block of top, placed as near the wheel as possible.

I thought the tracks were the same front and back, but if they are not the difference will be trivial compared with the distance front to back.

This is how I used to do it on my motorcycle.

I used to try to adjust new track rods the same length as the old. It did not work. It is extremely critical. The steering is twitchy if is out by half a turn. Adjusting the wheels on the ground does not work because the tyres flex. Doing it jacked up with the suspension hanging down is hopeless. The way I do it works first time, steering is not twitchy, and the steering wheel is central.

I know the power steering is self centring. I presume that unless the steering wheel has been removed and replaced incorrectly with the wheel centred the power steering is also centred.

[05omegav6]

Only if the pitman arm and idler are perfectly square

Over time/mileage the box wears, requiring the wheel to be held slightly off centre to counter camber, even on seemingly level roads

Predominantly, a RHD, UK registered Omega will have the wheel slightly of to the right, have had 4, all well over 100k and all the same...

[chrisgixer]

Having seen where the wishbones crumple in a side axle impact, I absolutely would NOT apply vertical pressure to the wishbones. Also, the leverage to compress the suspension to the correct ride height needs to be applied in the same position as the wheel, at the out lard end. The more inboard/nearer the wishbone bolts the axle stand is positioned the higher the suspension will sit. Therefor the front wheel position won't be on the same elevation as the rear so an error occurs, even if taken through the centre line of the hub to negate any possible positive camber, as the wheel drops in suspension travel, the top of the wheel leans out from the vertical, so the bottom must lean inboard of the normal ride height position.... always measure and set up at the correct ride height.

Having said that, it's not a ad attempt to be honest. Best available at the time.

But the the rest of your post is pretty much as the theory behind the guide.
Although the method described does assume a new track rod, or one that's very easy to adjust while laying by the side of the car and reaching under to the tre adjusters.

The tyres gripping the road is over come by driving back and forth in between each adjustment by 6 feet or so to let the wheel find its correct track. But the driver must keep the wheel at 12 o clock.

I think you will agree, there comes a point where you've got to get it measured and set correctly. After all, it could quite easily have too much toe dialled in on both sides and still drive straight with a straight steering wheel. Only to find that the outside edge of both tyres has been wiped off in under 5k miles.

As you say they are quite critical. A quarter turm can see a difference between a combined correct figure of -10minutes(5mins each side) and 10mins each side(-20combibed) a figure that will destroy tyres in 5k no problem at all. By which time it's way too late.