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Author Topic: Fuse con-fuse-ion: parasitic draw  (Read 2695 times)

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rds

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Fuse con-fuse-ion: parasitic draw
« on: 23 December 2021, 17:36:02 »

Season's greetings All

I am trying to track down a parasitic draw and using an AMP Hound for ease, found nothing except the interior light fuse with a 1.2A current going through it - doors open (I didn't want to jump the door mechanisms on the central locking yet).

I will post another on the draw but the issue for this post is the fuses: I assume that the fuse controls the interior light circuit as removing it, the lights went out.

But what other circuits does that 10A fuse (no7) control?
The links to the fuse disposition in the FAQ etc for the B Omega seem to have fuse 7 as a 30A item controlling the window motors  - clearly not here, nor does it conform to the glovebox manual.

Does anyone have a detailed list of the fuse specs and location for the 2003 Omega B please (ie not just the page from the glovebox manual)?

The glovebox manual says the fuse 7 controls 7:
Check control,
engine oil level,
courtesy lamp
Ok the last two are clear enough but what is "check control"?

Thanks

RDS
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Re: Fuse con-fuse-ion: parasitic draw
« Reply #1 on: 23 December 2021, 19:02:35 »

Have a nosy through the maintaince guides for fuses etc.  Quite informative for most things :y
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Re: Fuse con-fuse-ion: parasitic draw
« Reply #3 on: 23 December 2021, 19:21:31 »

many thanks yes, had a look but no list of bulbs; no immediately visible answer to the other issues.
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Re: Fuse con-fuse-ion: parasitic draw
« Reply #4 on: 23 December 2021, 20:53:24 »

Head light bulbs should be noted on the part id label. Just visible on the top of the headlight without removing them  ;)

What spec is your car as the only '03 with manual rear windows is ex police...
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Re: Fuse con-fuse-ion: parasitic draw
« Reply #5 on: 23 December 2021, 22:36:59 »

Yes thanks for the tip there, but as I am not at the car, I wondered if there was a list of bulbs like there seems to be for other vehicles I have had.

Mine is a late 2003 CDX estate 2.2 auto.

I still would like to know what "check control" is referring to on the fused circuit....
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Re: Fuse con-fuse-ion: parasitic draw
« Reply #6 on: 24 December 2021, 07:59:29 »

Check control is the bulb failure module.

Headlights should be: D2S, H7, W5W and P21W (amber).
Tail lights are: 2x P21W (white), P21W (amber) and P21/4W (white).

Incidentally, scatterbombing variations of the same question will lead to conflicting advice.

0.2 Amps is a pretty standard sitting current draw for the Omega. Glove box light is the usual light culprit on the estate... The rest are obvious if left on. Don't forget dash cams/sat navs etc, especially if hard wired. Battery tenders/code savers will interfere with the results.

To trace the drain, start with the primary fuses above the battery and work down stream as appropriate.

Trying to diagnose a parasitic draw remotely will be as successful as trying to change a wheel using telepathy.
« Last Edit: 24 December 2021, 08:11:01 by Doctor Gollum »
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rds

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Re: Fuse con-fuse-ion: parasitic draw
« Reply #7 on: 24 December 2021, 17:25:28 »

Thanks Dr G

however, most other Haynes manuals I have consulted on numerous vehicles include a list of all bulbs (possibly excepting the instrument panel backlights) - hence I found it odd that there was none in the Haynes and a shame that there was none in the tech section here as a sticky. Maybe a sticky can be started?

As an aside, am not sure what you mean about scatterbombing: the posts were discrete questions and will make it easier for others to search later with similar issues. The fact that these matters arise from one afternoon's prodding about under the hood  really doesn't matter. Apologies if they should have been lumped together, but separate questions tend to get focussed answers (despite this, please see below).

Back on topic, the problem is rather that the fuse array is different according to different sources for the same year -that is where the confusion lays.

I'm not getting 0.2A draw but 1.2A ie 14.5W on the fuse test; I think that is most likely the courtesy lights but cannot be sure, hence my question as to bulb specs. If I had the wattage of the interior bulbs, without taking them out, the P=VA equation would have helped me.

The battery was charged to 12.9v two nights ago and allowed to flash-off to 12.8 when I closed up. Today I am down to 11.8v (car not used in intervening time). The interior light fuse was also left out of its socket for the two intervening days.

I have checked the fuses under the steering column, in the triangular relay/fuse box under the hood and the square box attached to the battery. No draw except as I said, referable to the interior lights circit via Fuse 7.

Glove box light is a good tip, cheers, as long as it is not on the interior light circuit (fuse is out remember). It is pretty crowded with stuff in there so the switch may be operating.

I need to put a DC current clamp over the battery leads to see if there is drain at rest. In the meantime, in the absence of a verifiable and accountable current draw through the fuses, I am considering there is possibility of faulty diodes in the alternator: could not test today. A quick glance implies that there is little room for my putting my fat hand behind the alternator to pull the terminals off the back. Any tips on this gratefully received.

Telepathy also not needed; however method and knowledge of common failure points of the Omega are! For example, some cars sharing Ford's mid-2000s smart junction box technology never go to sleep: modules fire up intermittently causing all sorts of drain issues. Further,  on some Fords not actively switching the radio off before cutting the ignition will flatten a battery in a few days, even though the radio is not "On" audibly.

So (despite what I said below about discrete questions!!):
1 does the Omega have modules/systems that do not sleep? The alarm system is one system, any others?
2 are there known issues with parasitic draws on Omegas?
3 any reason not to "jump" the door locks and bonnet locks to run a proper parasitic draw test?
4 can the alarm (but not immobiliser, ie leave that operational) circuit be disabled permanently?
5 is the Owners manual the final judgment on what the fuses in the under-column related to and I ignore Haynes?

Thanks for wading through this - replies welcome!

Cheers

RDS
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Re: Fuse con-fuse-ion: parasitic draw
« Reply #8 on: 24 December 2021, 20:02:59 »

Thanks Dr G

however, most other Haynes manuals I have consulted on numerous vehicles include a list of all bulbs (possibly excepting the instrument panel backlights) - hence I found it odd that there was none in the Haynes and a shame that there was none in the tech section here as a sticky. Maybe a sticky can be started?

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90457.0

Back on topic, the problem is rather that the fuse array is different according to different sources for the same year -that is where the confusion lays.

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90451.0

I'm not getting 0.2A draw but 1.2A ie 14.5W on the fuse test; I think that is most likely the courtesy lights but cannot be sure, hence my question as to bulb specs. If I had the wattage of the interior bulbs, without taking them out, the P=VA equation would have helped me.

The battery was charged to 12.9v two nights ago and allowed to flash-off to 12.8 when I closed up. Today I am down to 11.8v (car not used in intervening time). The interior light fuse was also left out of its socket for the two intervening days.

I have checked the fuses under the steering column, in the triangular relay/fuse box under the hood and the square box attached to the battery. No draw except as I said, referable to the interior lights circit via Fuse 7.

Glove box light is a good tip, cheers, as long as it is not on the interior light circuit (fuse is out remember). It is pretty crowded with stuff in there so the switch may be operating.

I need to put a DC current clamp over the battery leads to see if there is drain at rest. In the meantime, in the absence of a verifiable and accountable current draw through the fuses, I am considering there is possibility of faulty diodes in the alternator: could not test today. A quick glance implies that there is little room for my putting my fat hand behind the alternator to pull the terminals off the back. Any tips on this gratefully received.

Telepathy also not needed; however method and knowledge of common failure points of the Omega are! For example, some cars sharing Ford's mid-2000s smart junction box technology never go to sleep: modules fire up intermittently causing all sorts of drain issues. Further,  on some Fords not actively switching the radio off before cutting the ignition will flatten a battery in a few days, even though the radio is not "On" audibly.

So (despite what I said below about discrete questions!!):
1 does the Omega have modules/systems that do not sleep? The alarm system is one system, any others?

Multitimer keeps certain circuits for 10-15 mins, Alarm on whenever locked, Power Sounder etc.

2 are there known issues with parasitic draws on Omegas?

As they get older they are starting to develop damp issues due to rotting bulkheads etc and a few of us have seen issues like interior lights coming on intermittently due to damp in door switches etc.

3 any reason not to "jump" the door locks and bonnet locks to run a proper parasitic draw test?
4 can the alarm (but not immobiliser, ie leave that operational) circuit be disabled permanently?
5 is the Owners manual the final judgment on what the fuses in the under-column related to and I ignore Haynes?

As before:- http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90451.0

Thanks for wading through this - replies welcome!

Cheers

RDS
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Fuse con-fuse-ion: parasitic draw
« Reply #9 on: 24 December 2021, 21:09:45 »

The scatterbombing observation was simply that the common theme to all your posts seems to be founded in the current draw/flat battery. Ergo that's the issue, not the radio or bulb types ;)

Anyhoo, Fuse 7, (fed from FV5 on top of the battery... Second from the wing, 80 Amp), ONLY supplies the switched side of the Consumer Relay, K153.

In turn, this only feeds:

Boot light
Glove box light

The primary feed to the Consumer Relay comes from FV4 via the ignition.

Ergo, if removing the boot light and glove box light bulbs doesn't stop the drain, you need a new Consumer Relay.

A secondary point to consider is evidence of moisture in/around the large block connector at the base of the driver side A pillar.


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Re: Fuse con-fuse-ion: parasitic draw
« Reply #10 on: 25 December 2021, 11:11:17 »

Thanks Dr G

however, most other Haynes manuals I have consulted on numerous vehicles include a list of all bulbs (possibly excepting the instrument panel backlights) - hence I found it odd that there was none in the Haynes and a shame that there was none in the tech section here as a sticky. Maybe a sticky can be started?

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90457.0

Back on topic, the problem is rather that the fuse array is different according to different sources for the same year -that is where the confusion lays.

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90451.0

I'm not getting 0.2A draw but 1.2A ie 14.5W on the fuse test; I think that is most likely the courtesy lights but cannot be sure, hence my question as to bulb specs. If I had the wattage of the interior bulbs, without taking them out, the P=VA equation would have helped me.

The battery was charged to 12.9v two nights ago and allowed to flash-off to 12.8 when I closed up. Today I am down to 11.8v (car not used in intervening time). The interior light fuse was also left out of its socket for the two intervening days.

I have checked the fuses under the steering column, in the triangular relay/fuse box under the hood and the square box attached to the battery. No draw except as I said, referable to the interior lights circit via Fuse 7.

Glove box light is a good tip, cheers, as long as it is not on the interior light circuit (fuse is out remember). It is pretty crowded with stuff in there so the switch may be operating.

I need to put a DC current clamp over the battery leads to see if there is drain at rest. In the meantime, in the absence of a verifiable and accountable current draw through the fuses, I am considering there is possibility of faulty diodes in the alternator: could not test today. A quick glance implies that there is little room for my putting my fat hand behind the alternator to pull the terminals off the back. Any tips on this gratefully received.

Telepathy also not needed; however method and knowledge of common failure points of the Omega are! For example, some cars sharing Ford's mid-2000s smart junction box technology never go to sleep: modules fire up intermittently causing all sorts of drain issues. Further,  on some Fords not actively switching the radio off before cutting the ignition will flatten a battery in a few days, even though the radio is not "On" audibly.

So (despite what I said below about discrete questions!!):
1 does the Omega have modules/systems that do not sleep? The alarm system is one system, any others?

Multitimer keeps certain circuits for 10-15 mins, Alarm on whenever locked, Power Sounder etc.

2 are there known issues with parasitic draws on Omegas?

As they get older they are starting to develop damp issues due to rotting bulkheads etc and a few of us have seen issues like interior lights coming on intermittently due to damp in door switches etc.

3 any reason not to "jump" the door locks and bonnet locks to run a proper parasitic draw test?
4 can the alarm (but not immobiliser, ie leave that operational) circuit be disabled permanently?
5 is the Owners manual the final judgment on what the fuses in the under-column related to and I ignore Haynes?

As before:- http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90451.0

Thanks for wading through this - replies welcome!

Cheers

RDS

I got 14mA in 2001 V6 Saloon. The 0.2A discussed here is the current in my car only during the first six minutes.
https://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=126622.msg1615322#msg1615322
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rds

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Re: Fuse con-fuse-ion: parasitic draw
« Reply #11 on: 28 December 2021, 14:50:44 »

Hello Polilara

thank for the reply; the bulb list was especially helpful. The wattages for the interior lights:
Rear internal light, door light, boot light - C5W
add up to a around 20w therefore (if they are all alight when the door is open (I will have to check that), there being two console lights (door lights). I was getting 14.5w on my original test, so the next stage is to use the clamp meter as I want to run the test for 30 mins and do not want to disturb the alarm and radio systems. I don't think we can diagnose further until then unless, as I say, there are well known issues eg with certain relays not-delatching or alarm systems drawing excessive current.

Thanks for the link to your own issues.

you referred me to the fuse array as follows:

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90451.0

I saw this previously and is an example of the problem: fuse F7 on this 2003 car is NOT 30A as stated in that diagram's list "Electrically operated windows". This is the confusion to which I am referring. The Owners Handbook lists that fuse as the "internal lighting" and "check control" and "engine oil level". I suppose that I will have to go by the Owner's Handbook then.

Alarm: so there is no practicable way of disabling that but leaving the immobiliser working?
Does the alarm plunger switch under the bonnet still "close" when the bonnet is just resting down and unlocked, ie how does this affect electrical consumption when left like that?

Damp issues: I did remove the under-scuttle sponge pad because that was leaking all the rainwater into the spark plug wells (then stopped after removal) but on lifting the bonnet the other day during the rain, I could see a fair amount of water dripping down the sides of the engine instead. Perhaps connectors are getting wet but water, even dirty water, is not a great conductor of electricity at these voltages, nevertheless still worth looming at.

Jumping the door locks - any reasons not to?

DR Gollum - may thanks also for your contribution but the assumption  as to my separation of items which you make is not quite correct,  but there is no mileage in pursuing that aspect.

However ref your:
"Anyhoo, Fuse 7, (fed from FV5 on top of the battery... Second from the wing, 80 Amp), ONLY supplies the switched side of the Consumer Relay, K153.
In turn, this only feeds:
Boot light
Glove box light
The primary feed to the Consumer Relay comes from FV4 via the ignition.
Ergo, if removing the boot light and glove box light bulbs doesn't stop the drain, you need a new Consumer Relay."
Are you saying that if removal of the fuse F7 on the switched side (do you mean high current side?)  of the relay does not help (it does not) that you think that the control side (ie low current) of the relay is possibly not delatching and is "leaking" current?
NB I tested the battery in the bench for a week before installation earlier in the year and there was no appreciable internal current consumption

As to "A secondary point to consider is evidence of moisture in/around the large block connector at the base of the driver side A pillar." is that connector within the cabin behind panels or within the engine bay or under the plastic cover for the power sounder?
« Last Edit: 28 December 2021, 14:54:48 by rds »
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Fuse con-fuse-ion: parasitic draw
« Reply #12 on: 28 December 2021, 19:41:30 »

No, I meant what I typed, which I typed with the 2001+ factory wiring diagram in front of me.

Fuse 7 only feeds two things... The glove box and boot light.

They are switched OFF by the consumer relay timing out. This is fed from a different fuse and power feed.

So yes, if you remove fuse 7 and still have a draw, I pretty much guarantee that the consumer relay is failing and that removing FV4 will stop the draw instantly.
The A pillar is inside the car, behind the kick panel.
« Last Edit: 28 December 2021, 19:51:59 by Doctor Gollum »
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Re: Fuse con-fuse-ion: parasitic draw
« Reply #13 on: 28 December 2021, 19:52:54 »

The alarm and immobiliser are two very distinct and separate systems that perform very different functions ;)
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Re: Fuse con-fuse-ion: parasitic draw
« Reply #14 on: 29 December 2021, 12:28:10 »

Many thanks Dr G

you mention the 2001+ wiring diagram; the only one I have is in Haynes, is there a clearer (eg larger and better print!!) one available on the site? If not, could you post it please? [edit just seen your comment elsewhere: "Factory diagrams are the same layout as Haynes. Probably because the Haynes ones are based on the factory ones (unlike the current ones)."]

I'll track back and find the Consumer time delay relay K153,  (FV4 is a fusible link yes?) when I get back to the car and look at the kick panel. For reference, another post says: "Timer delay relay is under steering wheel. Drop fusecover flap, undo the 2 screws holding the main fuseboard and the relay is behind that (tall yellow one)"

My current clamp attachment seems to have a very high rating so I can only hope the draw will register on that instrument.

« Last Edit: 29 December 2021, 12:43:25 by rds »
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Re: Fuse con-fuse-ion: parasitic draw
« Reply #15 on: 29 December 2021, 13:03:57 »

Again for future reference, Consumer delay relay K153 is described on another post as a 9 pin [another post says 8 pin] yellow relay with  part number GM 24427610. I cannot confirm or deny however!

here is a link to another post with the location, behind the fuse box under the steering wheel

https://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=66529.msg939800#msg939800
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