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[Paul M]

The V6 has a lot of low down grunt and a nice flat torque delivery and hence why they pull well in the low gears and hance also why the ides of soembody putting a close ratio 6 speeder in would be pointless (only requried on peeky engines like modern over blown diesels).

I don't think it's got particularly great low down grunt at all. Maybe in a lighter car, but in the Omega it feels like you have to keep the revs up to make good progress. And yes I think a 6-speed box would be a big improvement, the ratios are too widely spaced on the standard gearbox, it would be far more enjoyable with lower and slightly closer spaced ratios, possibly even a very slightly higher 6th for M-way cruising when you don't need much power.

[Marks DTM Calib]

The V6 has a lot of low down grunt and a nice flat torque delivery and hence why they pull well in the low gears and hance also why the ides of soembody putting a close ratio 6 speeder in would be pointless (only requried on peeky engines like modern over blown diesels).

I don't think it's got particularly great low down grunt at all. Maybe in a lighter car, but in the Omega it feels like you have to keep the revs up to make good progress. And yes I think a 6-speed box would be a big improvement, the ratios are too widely spaced on the standard gearbox, it would be far more enjoyable with lower and slightly closer spaced ratios, possibly even a very slightly higher 6th for M-way cruising when you don't need much power.

Paul......it has good low down torque, better than pretty much any other engine in this size and this can be easilt demonstrated by popping it in fifth at 30mph and noting how it still accelerates......dont confuse it with Bhp.....!

And a 6 speed box would not help, it does not need it, its well matched to the torque delivery already. The only thing you would do with a 6th speed is add an over drive.

Unless of course yours has vac problems.

[Elite Pete]

The V6 has a lot of low down grunt and a nice flat torque delivery and hence why they pull well in the low gears and hance also why the ides of soembody putting a close ratio 6 speeder in would be pointless (only requried on peeky engines like modern over blown diesels).

I don't think it's got particularly great low down grunt at all. Maybe in a lighter car, but in the Omega it feels like you have to keep the revs up to make good progress. And yes I think a 6-speed box would be a big improvement, the ratios are too widely spaced on the standard gearbox, it would be far more enjoyable with lower and slightly closer spaced ratios, possibly even a very slightly higher 6th for M-way cruising when you don't need much power.

Paul......it has good low down torque, better than pretty much any other engine in this size and this can be easilt demonstrated by popping it in fifth at 30mph and noting how it still accelerates......dont confuse it with Bhp.....!

And a 6 speed box would not help, it does not need it, its well matched to the torque delivery already. The only thing you would do with a 6th speed is add an over drive.

Unless of course yours has vac problems.

Like mine, it wouldn't pull a greasy stick from a dogs bum below 4000RPM

[Kevin Wood]

Paul......it has good low down torque, better than pretty much any other engine in this size and this can be easilt demonstrated by popping it in fifth at 30mph and noting how it still accelerates......dont confuse it with Bhp.....!

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1166809964

That's a pretty good torque curve (not really that curved at all) for a heavy car in my book. Low down torque could only be improved on that by tuning it as a 2v engine and forgetting about the region above 5K. And then you'd say it was gutless at the top end!  

Kevin

[Jay w]

mine gets a regular visit to the redline, and it enjoys it  

the trick is NEVER to do it from cold, the amount of times i have seen people get in a car and rag the nuts out of it from stome cold is unreal.

When i was modifying cars we used to use the Vauxhall 2.0XE engine (red top) this was/is a classic engine but is one that really needs to have had a hard life in order to get the best out of it, we bought one that was 6 years old with 30,000 miles on it, flat as a cowpat, it took weeks to get the thing to 'loosen up' but when it did it was a flyer.

I don't encourage or advocate irresponsible driving, there is a time and a place for everything  

[Paul M]

The V6 has a lot of low down grunt and a nice flat torque delivery and hence why they pull well in the low gears and hance also why the ides of soembody putting a close ratio 6 speeder in would be pointless (only requried on peeky engines like modern over blown diesels).

I don't think it's got particularly great low down grunt at all. Maybe in a lighter car, but in the Omega it feels like you have to keep the revs up to make good progress. And yes I think a 6-speed box would be a big improvement, the ratios are too widely spaced on the standard gearbox, it would be far more enjoyable with lower and slightly closer spaced ratios, possibly even a very slightly higher 6th for M-way cruising when you don't need much power.

Paul......it has good low down torque, better than pretty much any other engine in this size and this can be easilt demonstrated by popping it in fifth at 30mph and noting how it still accelerates......dont confuse it with Bhp.....!

And a 6 speed box would not help, it does not need it, its well matched to the torque delivery already. The only thing you would do with a 6th speed is add an over drive.

Unless of course yours has vac problems.

Maybe I'm spoiled with the M62B44 V8 in my BMW (which has 440 Nm torque compared to the 270 in the X30XE), but it feels to me that I have to keep it revving over 4000 RPM to make good progress. It just feels pretty slow outside that, and with the wide ratios I have to rev to near the red line to keep it in that power band. The BMW engine, while torquey, is still quite peaky in terms of power (peaks at 6000 RPM) and even with all that torque it feels much nicer to drive with the 6-speed box. Admittedly 6th is a bit higher than the 5th in the Omega, but the ratios are all closer together and it's effortless to keep it in the peak power band.

The vac on mine is fine, it drives like it should and to the best of my knowledge everything works OK regarding multi-ram. I've driven a few others and they felt much the same as mine, so I don't think there are any problems.

[Paul M]

Paul......it has good low down torque, better than pretty much any other engine in this size and this can be easilt demonstrated by popping it in fifth at 30mph and noting how it still accelerates......dont confuse it with Bhp.....!

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1166809964

That's a pretty good torque curve (not really that curved at all) for a heavy car in my book. Low down torque could only be improved on that by tuning it as a 2v engine and forgetting about the region above 5K. And then you'd say it was gutless at the top end!  

Kevin

Yes it's not bad really, certainly pulls reasonably well in the lower revs, but to keep it on song takes a bit of work. I think the confusion here is that I'm talking about driving quickly, which is more about where the power is delivered, than the torque spread. But still, with a multivalve engine it makes sense to match the gearing to the revvy nature of the engine IMO, and a 6sp allows that without compromising the lazy cruising ability.

Oh and I know what you mean about the 2v engines -- I had a 2.0 8v Audi as a runaround for a while, and it was fine in town, actually felt very smooth and pulled well. But on the open road, I'd be driving along thinking I need more power, drop a gear and it would just make more noise! Nothing at the top end, definitely not a car designed for performance, totally gutless

I think overall I like a compromise, that is an engine with reasonable torque for driving round town and times when I can't be bothered, but still with a peaky power delivery for when I want to make progress -- but with a gearbox that facilitates such a revvy nature. Hence why I don't like diesels (no top end) nor VTEC Hondas (gutless unless thrashing them). On a bike it's fine having a peaky engine as it's so light that even when the revs are low it will still out accelerate most things anyway. Even then, I do gravitate towards larger capacity engines as they're more flexible than the smaller more peaky engines.

[Kevin Wood]

Agreed. My 8v Laguna was the same. It hit a brick wall at around 5000. Between driving that and the Westfield (chalk and cheese) I had no confidence to overtake anything in the Laguna, hence the Omega.

Characteristics need to match weight too. I'd hate to have the engine I have in the Westfield in an Omega. The cams don't really start working until about 3500 RPM but that's fine in a light car because it can still pull strongly from walking pace in 4th gear despite being off-cam. Drop it down a couple and it flies between 3500 and 7200.

Kevin

[shyboy]

This is fascinating stuff from people who have knowledge of the performance capabilities of different set-ups. I wholly acknowledge that my impressions of the V6 take no account of its real capabilities through lack of in depth knowledge, but I still can't understand how one can achieve 6/7k rpm regularly during conventional driving.
I succumbed to the invitation to 'give it a go' today, and at 90mph (the road wasn't suitable for anything faster), in 5th gear, the counter was reading 3.6k rpm. Just dawdling, did I hear you say? So, without ragging it in a low gear, how the hell do I achieve top end rpm. without driving dangerously, (if only to see what it feels like)?
Surely I'd need to join the aircraft on a runway.  

[Marks DTM Calib]

This is fascinating stuff from people who have knowledge of the performance capabilities of different set-ups. I wholly acknowledge that my impressions of the V6 take no account of its real capabilities through lack of in depth knowledge, but I still can't understand how one can achieve 6/7k rpm regularly during conventional driving.
I succumbed to the invitation to 'give it a go' today, and at 90mph (the road wasn't suitable for anything faster), in 5th gear, the counter was reading 3.6k rpm. Just dawdling, did I hear you say? So, without ragging it in a low gear, how the hell do I achieve top end rpm. without driving dangerously, (if only to see what it feels like)?
Surely I'd need to join the aircraft on a runway.  

We dont do high rpm in top gear......second and third gear yes.....

[Kevin Wood]

Surely I'd need to join the aircraft on a runway.

Runways are good  

Wait 'till the aircraft are gone though.

Kevin

[shyboy]

This is fascinating stuff from people who have knowledge of the performance capabilities of different set-ups. I wholly acknowledge that my impressions of the V6 take no account of its real capabilities through lack of in depth knowledge, but I still can't understand how one can achieve 6/7k rpm regularly during conventional driving.
I succumbed to the invitation to 'give it a go' today, and at 90mph (the road wasn't suitable for anything faster), in 5th gear, the counter was reading 3.6k rpm. Just dawdling, did I hear you say? So, without ragging it in a low gear, how the hell do I achieve top end rpm. without driving dangerously, (if only to see what it feels like)?
Surely I'd need to join the aircraft on a runway.  

We dont do high rpm in top gear......second and third gear yes.....

[/highlight]

Right! The penny's dropping. But surely people aren't really serious about most driving being in the 6/7k+ zone. My engine is in good nick, and it did tear away earlier today, and I think I will push it harder from time to time, but I don't envisage too much 7k stuff. I'm nervous about flying. (The real stuff anyway!)

[Jimbob]

I think you need to get Mark to take you out for a drive at some point.....

[Marks DTM Calib]

I think you need to get Mark to take you out for a drive at some point.....

 

[shyboy]

I think you need to get Mark to take you out for a drive at some point.....

[/highlight]

I wouldn't say No. My Dad could lend me some incontinence pants.  8-)