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[Lazydocker]

Another LPG conversion is on the cards in the near future, but on an Estate.

Having done a lot of research I have found that a 77L Full Toroidal, 4-hole tank (650diax270mm) will fit into the wheel well (with slight modification) if you build a false floor into the boot and raise it by about 75mm. Not a major problem, and can be done very tidily as can be seen in the pictures below (thanks to Cliffob ). But, it's not been as straightforward as expected because the gas tight box fouled on the wheel well... He has cured this with some a fair bit of work


SDC12345 by lazydocker, on Flickr


SDC12341 by lazydocker, on Flickr


SDC12348 by lazydocker, on Flickr


SDC12350 by lazydocker, on Flickr

So I'm now trying to work out the best course of action... I really need to get the biggest tank possible into the car, and 77L is it. That's fractionally smaller in capacity that the "tried and tested" 80L cylinder (obviously ) so the expected range is somewhere in the region of 270 miles around town, 320ish on a (spirited) cruise. Obviously, with the 'van on the back that will drop to around half that

Cliff has suggested that (if he were to order again) he would probably go for the 630mm dia tank, which is 72L. This should make the installation much more simple... The floor still needs raising, but it should drop into the wheel well with no problems whatsoever

 I know we're talking about less than a Gallon of LPG in real terms but am struggling to get past the thought that we could get a bigger tank in :-/ :-/

Any thoughts anyone? Particularly interested in H21's opinion on this subject

[tunnie]

image links are dud 

My question is does it really need to be 4 hole tank? Could you not get away with multivalve?

[Lazydocker]

image links are dud 

My question is does it really need to be 4 hole tank? Could you not get away with multivalve?

Was suspicious they wouldn't work... Bear with me and I'll upload to Flickr so I can link to them.

Can't really use a multivalve on a car with a full compliment of cylinders and horses Plus, multivalve would actually be even worse to try and get into the boot

[tunnie]

image links are dud 

My question is does it really need to be 4 hole tank? Could you not get away with multivalve?

Was suspicious they wouldn't work... Bear with me and I'll upload to Flickr so I can link to them.Can't really use a multivalve on a car with a full compliment of cylinders and horses Plus, multivalve would actually be even worse to try and get into the boot

Give dropbox a whirl, nice and easy 

I assumed multivalve would be a smaller unit like mine, not a large box length, so thought it would have been easier to fit  :-/

[Lazydocker]

image links are dud 

My question is does it really need to be 4 hole tank? Could you not get away with multivalve?

Was suspicious they wouldn't work... Bear with me and I'll upload to Flickr so I can link to them.Can't really use a multivalve on a car with a full compliment of cylinders and horses Plus, multivalve would actually be even worse to try and get into the boot

Give dropbox a whirl, nice and easy 

I assumed multivalve would be a smaller unit like mine, not a large box length, so thought it would have been easier to fit  :-/

Images weren't hosted by me, they were from an email from another member I'll upload them in a mo... They're on the way to Flickr as I type

Might try Dropbox in the future actually... May be easier, having seen it at work when I was at yours

[tunnie]

image links are dud 

My question is does it really need to be 4 hole tank? Could you not get away with multivalve?

Was suspicious they wouldn't work... Bear with me and I'll upload to Flickr so I can link to them.Can't really use a multivalve on a car with a full compliment of cylinders and horses Plus, multivalve would actually be even worse to try and get into the boot

Give dropbox a whirl, nice and easy 

I assumed multivalve would be a smaller unit like mine, not a large box length, so thought it would have been easier to fit  :-/

Images weren't hosted by me, they were from an email from another member I'll upload them in a mo... They're on the way to Flickr as I type

Might try Dropbox in the future actually... May be easier, having seen it at work when I was at yours

I find it very good, as you could have "borrowed" the images from Cliffo, saved them locally and bung them in dropbox folder.

iPhone App works well too 

[TheBoy]

I remain unconvinced that 4 hole is necessary, as long as you have a decent mutlivalve.  The MV6 is a mutlivalve, and (lag aside) suffers no issues - and the engines lives about 4.5k rpm (as Lazydocker knows why ).  Doesn't go lean either (occasional error in lpg ecu about injectors fully open).  Chrisgixer and Kevin Wood will confirm that, despite its 175k, it was every bit as equal to there cars at the time (Chris had a multivalve, Kevin has 4 hole).


I still, at absolute best, can only manage 290 from the Elite, that includes overfilling (tank needs another tweak), and being Miss Daisy through most of the tank.

[TheBoy]

Dropbox works well, if you can work within their limits, and can tolerate their software (I find it frustrating/naff, but it is dead easy to use ).

Tunnie - maybe you should do another guide, using dropbox, for those members who struggle with picture hosting

[Lazydocker]

I remain unconvinced that 4 hole is necessary, as long as you have a decent mutlivalve.  The MV6 is a mutlivalve, and (lag aside) suffers no issues - and the engines lives about 4.5k rpm (as Lazydocker knows why ).  Doesn't go lean either (occasional error in lpg ecu about injectors fully open).  Chrisgixer and Kevin Wood will confirm that, despite its 175k, it was every bit as equal to there cars at the time (Chris had a multivalve, Kevin has 4 hole).


I still, at absolute best, can only manage 290 from the Elite, that includes overfilling (tank needs another tweak), and being Miss Daisy through most of the tank.

Trouble is that a full toroidal tank with a M/V will actually be harder to fit due to where the M/V is positioned... 4-Hole is most practical from a fitting point of view Biggest dilemma is whether to go that fraction smaller to make it a little easier to drop in. I suppose we're talking less than 30 miles, even on a cruise, but just can't decide :-/

Once we've had a try we'll know what's best when the Bonny Gold one appears

[tunnie]

Tunnie - maybe you should do another guide, using dropbox, for those members who struggle with picture hosting

Sure, its about time i updated it. Something to do tonight before the Curry. 

[TheBoy]

I wanted greater range, so considered 100l...


...then decided that I've had an 80l for the past year that I tend to fill every 175 miles anyway, so stick with easy install

[Lazydocker]

I wanted greater range, so considered 100l...


...then decided that I've had an 80l for the past year that I tend to fill every 175 miles anyway, so stick with easy install

Must admit, I'm swaying towards the easier fitting option having looked at the pictures and the discussions I've had with cliffob. But, when towing the Pikey Box the extra capacity is useful.

That said, there's a "soft" version of the gas tight box available for multivalves, if the same were available for a 4-hole setup then the 77L tank will drop straight in It was the gas tight box that caused the problems :-/

[Jimbob]

Looks good, and the route I would want (With the smaller tank) should I ever go this route.

[tigers_gonads]

I have ordered the 55 ltr 4 hole  donut tank for my estate.

I can't have a tank in the load area 24 / 7 because i will need to drop the seats sometimes for long loads.

Has anybody fitted / is it possible to fit 2nd tank tank in a estate ?

If it can be done, how would you go about it ?

[Dazzler]

The estate i went to see only had a 47ltr tank , and the floor was still raised by a couple of inchs.

[Lazydocker]

I have ordered the 55 ltr 4 hole  donut tank for my estate.

I can't have a tank in the load area 24 / 7 because i will need to drop the seats sometimes for long loads.

Has anybody fitted / is it possible to fit 2nd tank tank in a estate ?

If it can be done, how would you go about it ?

You can fit as many tanks as you like, but there is no acceptable "quick Release" connectors for LPG in automotive use so it wouldn't comply with COP11 unless permanently fitted

[Lazydocker]

Looks good, and the route I would want (With the smaller tank) should I ever go this route.

IMO, a cylinder just isn't an option in an Estate. Raising the floor is simple enough and I'm sure we can cope with losing a few inches off the height in the boot

TBH, looking at the work involved to get the 650mm diameter 77L tank in I'm seriously considering going for a 630mm Dia 72L tank... It will just be a whole lot easier to fit and would leave a little space around the tank for small items (like the spare crank sensor, LPG diagnostic lead, etc) without having to use the cubby holes for them :-/

[Lazydocker]

The estate i went to see only had a 47ltr tank , and the floor was still raised by a couple of inchs.

You saved me a trip to look at that one... I was seriously tempted to but didn't bother after your report!

[tigers_gonads]

I have ordered the 55 ltr 4 hole  donut tank for my estate.

I can't have a tank in the load area 24 / 7 because i will need to drop the seats sometimes for long loads.

Has anybody fitted / is it possible to fit 2nd tank tank in a estate ?

If it can be done, how would you go about it ?

You can fit as many tanks as you like, but there is no acceptable "quick Release" connectors for LPG in automotive use so it wouldn't comply with COP11 unless permanently fitted

Would be possible to fit a T piece with threaded ends in the circuit with a threaded cap on the end or is that against regs ?

[Lazydocker]

I have ordered the 55 ltr 4 hole  donut tank for my estate.

I can't have a tank in the load area 24 / 7 because i will need to drop the seats sometimes for long loads.

Has anybody fitted / is it possible to fit 2nd tank tank in a estate ?

If it can be done, how would you go about it ?

You can fit as many tanks as you like, but there is no acceptable "quick Release" connectors for LPG in automotive use so it wouldn't comply with COP11 unless permanently fitted

Would be possible to fit a T piece with threaded ends in the circuit with a threaded cap on the end or is that against regs ?

Against regs, plus I wouldn't trust it when not connected to a tank Plus, the secure mounting of the tank means it's not a 5 minute job to take it out/put it back in Oh... And they're heavy!

[tigers_gonads]

I have ordered the 55 ltr 4 hole  donut tank for my estate.

I can't have a tank in the load area 24 / 7 because i will need to drop the seats sometimes for long loads.

Has anybody fitted / is it possible to fit 2nd tank tank in a estate ?

If it can be done, how would you go about it ?

You can fit as many tanks as you like, but there is no acceptable "quick Release" connectors for LPG in automotive use so it wouldn't comply with COP11 unless permanently fitted

Would be possible to fit a T piece with threaded ends in the circuit with a threaded cap on the end or is that against regs ?

Against regs, plus I wouldn't trust it when not connected to a tank Plus, the secure mounting of the tank means it's not a 5 minute job to take it out/put it back in Oh... And they're heavy!

So thats a no then   

[Cliffo B]

I had to do a fair bit of modding to the vapour box I'll try and explain:- first carefully ground off the rubber sealing groove and binned the rubber seal (used sikaflex to seal instead. Now the hard one for me to explain,I made a very accurate cornflake box template of the side of the box,then I relocated the template on the side by skewing it slightly to narrow down the box width as much as possible by repositioning the lid profile at a slightly different angle then carefully and accurately reshaped the profile finishing off by polishing the edge and hey presto it worked I now have about 5mm clearance and can refit/remove lid with ease. I've tested the box by sealing the rubber exit grommets up and planting the box with lid fitted on a rubber surface to seal the base then sucking /blowing by tube through the gas exit grommet and it's a 100% seal.hope Ive managed to explain ok my comment is this job needs care and accuracy with with a hand metal cutter/grinder and mark off the template with a sharp scriber in the alloy

[Lazydocker]

Thanks for explaining that Cilff. I understood (sort of) from your previous comments I'll explore "soft" vapour boxes first, although AFAIK they're only available for single hole tanks but it looks like the 630x270mm 72L tank would be much easier to fit

Oh... And the more I think about the convenience of being able to store the little bits and pieces around it appeals too

[tigers_gonads]

Hi cliffo, What days do you come across my way ( Hull ).
I should have all my kit together next week so i'd like to take your offer up and have a good luck round your car if possible ?


Bugger
Ment to send that via PM 

[Cliffo B]

thats ok will pm you,another option is I could give you my sister's address at Flamboro I go there weekly to take her shopping she can't walk solo (no balance from the waist up) Next day is comeing Weds

[tigers_gonads]

I've got the front end kit now.
The rear should be here monday or tuesday.
Kevin Wood is going to try and sort us out a drilled and tapped manifold this weekend so when i've got everything, i'll PM you and we will get something sorted 

I think I have the front sorted in my mind but not sure about the tank end  :-/

Cheers

[Cliffo B]

Ah so you spotted that ,don't forget the rear end road noise is quieter also

[blackviper90210]

Hi guys,

I have LPG already installed in my car (done before I got it), I know nothing about them and reading this thread was interesting.
In idiot language, what is:

Multivalve/ 4 pot and gas tight box? please.

I have a doughnut 50ltr in the wheel well of my estate, thats about all I know and that I get 200miles out of it! 

[Cliffo B]

I think with hindsight I'd go for a 630 dia I think you may still have to remove the well lid flange,to accomodate the VB.The 650 tank would just buckle scrape it's way past without the VB on.

[Lazydocker]

I think with hindsight I'd go for a 630 dia I think you may still have to remove the well lid flange,to accomodate the VB.The 650 tank would just buckle scrape it's way past without the VB on.

But the 20mm reduction in Diameter should solve that problem... I hope

Basically, much smaller capacity just isn't a viable option for me so I'll make it fit, and you've managed to get the 650mm one in so it'll be fine

[Lazydocker]

Hi guys,

I have LPG already installed in my car (done before I got it), I know nothing about them and reading this thread was interesting.
In idiot language, what is:

Multivalve/ 4 pot and gas tight box? please.

I have a doughnut 50ltr in the wheel well of my estate, thats about all I know and that I get 200miles out of it! 

Basically a multivalve fits into a single hole tank and has 4 functions from the one valve: Fill, feed, level sensor and pressure relief. Because all 4 functions are performed by the same valve the liquid feed can be restricted and general view is that a multivalve isn't good for high demand fuelling.

A 4 hole tank has 4 separate holes for each of the above functions and can deliver a greater flow rate of liquid.

The gas tight box (or vapour box) is designed to contain any potential leak (if the tank over pressurised and had to vent some for example) and vent it safely to the outside of the vehicle via vent hoses

Hope that helps

[blackviper90210]

Hi guys,

I have LPG already installed in my car (done before I got it), I know nothing about them and reading this thread was interesting.
In idiot language, what is:

Multivalve/ 4 pot and gas tight box? please.

I have a doughnut 50ltr in the wheel well of my estate, thats about all I know and that I get 200miles out of it! 

Basically a multivalve fits into a single hole tank and has 4 functions from the one valve: Fill, feed, level sensor and pressure relief. Because all 4 functions are performed by the same valve the liquid feed can be restricted and general view is that a multivalve isn't good for high demand fuelling.

A 4 hole tank has 4 separate holes for each of the above functions and can deliver a greater flow rate of liquid.

The gas tight box (or vapour box) is designed to contain any potential leak (if the tank over pressurised and had to vent some for example) and vent it safely to the outside of the vehicle via vent hoses

Hope that helps

Cheers for that Lazydocker, that makes sense to me, lol. Will have a look at mine and see what kit mine is. Saying that I don't really have a clue what I'm bloody looking at 

[Cliffo B]

A very good move haveing Kevin do the manifold wish I'd have gone that route,my conclusion in the end was its one of those jobs you need practice on before you come good at it (drilling angles etc) and there's also the cost of a thread tap + arbour, 2 drill bits, cutting compound,and thread sealing compound.

[Cliffo B]

Ok L.D. I'll try and put together the final routine, materials and pitfalls, I arrived at for fixing in the tank, it should help a lot once known, a job as complicated as this could possibly be improved on,knowing my  style expect a long read

[Lazydocker]

Ok L.D. I'll try and put together the final routine, materials and pitfalls, I arrived at for fixing in the tank, it should help a lot once known, a job as complicated as this could possibly be improved on,knowing my  style expect a long read

Glad you've finally come around to my way of thinking

You can email it to me if you like... I'm happy to put a how 2 together once I've actually done the job, but not until then

I reckon I'm going to try and get a 630x270mm 72L tank

[TheBoy]

Basically a multivalve fits into a single hole tank and has 4 functions from the one valve: Fill, feed, level sensor and pressure relief. Because all 4 functions are performed by the same valve the liquid feed can be restricted and general view is that a multivalve isn't good for high demand fuelling.

A 4 hole tank has 4 separate holes for each of the above functions and can deliver a greater flow rate of liquid.

Though my 3.0l MV6, chipped, is fine on a decent flow multivalve...

[hotel21]

Couple of Q's.

Is it being filled via the adaptor visible when the tailgate is open?  Guessing not, as that would defeat the purpose of loading an estate to maximum?

What is used for the height packer?  Insulation sheets?  Blockboard or marine ply would add to the weight big style...

Otherwise, looks like a workable concept.    

[Lazydocker]

Couple of Q's.

Is it being filled via the adaptor visible when the tailgate is open?  Guessing not, as that would defeat the purpose of loading an estate to maximum?

What is used for the height packer?  Insulation sheets?  Blockboard or marine ply would add to the weight big style...

Otherwise, looks like a workable concept.    

 

Nope filler mounted elsewhere, tow bar is my position of choice

Insulation sheets to raise and then hard board to top it, then re-fit carpet if you choose to

[Lazydocker]

The dilemma continues...

650x270, 77L tank is £75 cheaper than 630x270

Might have to go for the larger one and do the modifications after all! :-/ :-/

[henryd]

The dilemma continues...

650x270, 77L tank is £75 cheaper than 630x270

Might have to go for the larger one and do the modifications after all! :-/ :-/

is it viable to chop the bottom out of the wheel well and get the tank lower so as not to lose so much load area?

[Lazydocker]

The dilemma continues...

650x270, 77L tank is £75 cheaper than 630x270

Might have to go for the larger one and do the modifications after all! :-/ :-/

is it viable to chop the bottom out of the wheel well and get the tank lower so as not to lose so much load area?

Not really, there's not a lot of clearance between the wheel well and the tank.

That's not a concern to me, it's just getting the air tight box into the well that's an issue

There are smaller tanks available but that, obviously, impacts on the range