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[dbdb]

Today I converted my alloy cansiter and paper element oil filter to the cheaper and easier spin on one, following the excellent guide http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90579.msg1155460#msg1155460 thanks for that .

Some things that may help  - my cannister didn't have the 27mm nut inside so I had to use the 12mm allen key (actually almost 12.5mm).  Luckily I had both the key and the 27mm socket but they are quite obscure tools to me.

The lid came off easily.  This is despite National Disgrace Tyres clearly overtightening it last time.  I wonder if the common problem is  them being tightened while hot but trying to undo them while cold?  Mine was hot for both.

The inside retaining bolt came off surprisingly easily too.  I had a club hammer ready but it wasn't needed.

Getting the double threaded adapter in tightly is a bit tricky, it must be tempting to put a pipe wrench on it but that would damage the filter thread. If I had 2 M18 nuts to hand I would have used the old trick of tightening one against the other and undoing when the thread lock had set.  What I did instead was to put a small expanding bolt inside the adapter, expand it, screw the adapter in using it,  then contract the bolt and remove it.  Worked well.

So now I have an alloy canister in good nick with seal, bolt and lid.  Is it worth putting it in the for sale section now I finally have enough posts?  I suspect people only need them immediately so there is no demand.  Plus anyone with a broken cannister would be better off fitting the adapter. 

Having run some 5W30 through for 300 miles to clean out the crap I now have oil so clean you can only tell it is not above the top mark by pressing a tissue against the dipstick

[jonny2112]

Good result 
You seem happy which is the main thing, but your tips will no doubt help others (me included) who may decide to go down the conversion route 

[feeutfo]

Once its been removed and re fitted correctly, to the correct torque/not over tightened/or even just done up sensibly, I have no problem at all with canister cap. So I don't see the advantage of converting from paper filters to traditional type.

Suspect that vx specifying ridiculously long service intervals sees the oil on the thread dry out and glue the lid on. Chrystalised oil lumps being evident on the threads....Along with work shop monkeys swinging off the wrench to re fit.

[jonny2112]

Can't argue with that Chris. When I first got my FL I didn't really like the paper element type filter, and thought the canister (as on my MFL) was much handier. The fact that there was a guide to converting put it in my head, but tbh I haven't bothered, and although I consider it at every oil change, I don't have any problems with the existing set up.

[TheBoy]

I actually prefer the paper element type to spin on filters, much less messy. Probably kinder to the crank sensor as well, but who knows.

I wonder if conversion the other way is possible 

[Jimbob]

I didnt like the paper type that needed a 32mm socket or whatever it is, that one a 1/2 drive ratchet I always found awkward in the space.

The 'earlier' type that takes a 3/8's square drive (providing not overtightened) I find much easier.

all in all, probably prefer the spin on's though.

[TheBoy]

I didnt like the paper type that needed a 32mm socket or whatever it is, that one a 1/2 drive ratchet I always found awkward in the space.

The 'earlier' type that takes a 3/8's square drive (providing not overtightened) I find much easier.

all in all, probably prefer the spin on's though.

Mines the 24mm socket one.Only 24mm sockets I have are 1/2", though I only use the rachet to break the seal, after that I use an airwrench.

[dbdb]

I wonder if conversion the other way is possible 

I have the cannister if anyone wants it, I'd be surprised!

I can see the spin on might be messy if it is simply removed, the oil would drip down the engine block.  But if you whack a hole in the old one before removal with a screwdriver the oil should neatly drain into your recepticle. 

The main benefit of a spin on is not having to remove the paper element and having it drip oil down your sleeve.  There are other benefits eg National Disgrace Tyres screwed up my paper one (probably by not fitting a new seal) and it dripped a litre in day.  Even they would find it hard to screw up with a spin on.

[TheBoy]

The main benefit of a spin on is not having to remove the paper element and having it drip oil down your sleeve.

No, thats a primary advantage of the paper element one on Omega V6s IME.

There are other benefits eg National Disgrace Tyres screwed up my paper one (probably by not fitting a new seal) and it dripped a litre in day.  Even they would find it hard to screw up with a spin on.

Oh, I don't know, I've seen them put on so tight, that it all seperates on removal. Fortuantely not on an Omega, so I had room to work around it, as it would be a sod on an Omega with the limit access.

I've also had a spin-on come loose on my van, 3 miles after having it serviced by the company monkeys.

If you're at the mercy of mongrels who don't give a shit, you're knackered whatever you have.

[Nick W]

I find that by the time you've removed the cap and extracted the filter, all the oil in the housing has now run out the end, down your arm, onto the crossmember and to the ground.

With a spin-on, you loosen it with a strap wrench(if it doesn't by hand) which you then drop. Spin the filter off in one go and tilt it so that it's upright. If you're unlucky, there might be a small drip from the adapter. This is true of any spin-on fliter that's screwed on horizontally. Which is most of them.

[Andy H]

Loosen the cap and undo it far enough that it starts to drain, put a drip tray underneath.

Wait a minute for the oil to run out then undo the cap completely & remove.

Job done.

[TheBoy]

I find that by the time you've removed the cap and extracted the filter, all the oil in the housing has now run out the end, down your arm, onto the crossmember and to the ground.

With a spin-on, you loosen it with a strap wrench(if it doesn't by hand) which you then drop. Spin the filter off in one go and tilt it so that it's upright. If you're unlucky, there might be a small drip from the adapter. This is true of any spin-on fliter that's screwed on horizontally. Which is most of them.

Well, the method I use is:
tie a kitchen towel sheet around centre tie rod, about halfway along (to stop oil going any further along it, as thats the size of my drain tray)
unscrew cap about 3 turns, so the oil starts to drain along the special flat in the thread for draining - it mostly missing everything as it drains, except the centre tie rod.
After a minute, remove cap - filter *should* be clipped in cap, and come out with it.
Clean cap, replace seal, replace filter and clip it in cap.
Refit.

Now, with spin on:
Tie rag to tie rod
Start to undo
oil goes everywhere - down block, across all the webbing, through that hole, all over crank sensor, subframe - the lot

[05omegav6]

Easier to spin off quickly, minimizing leakage

Got the bits to do both of mine, just need the oil and a nice warm day, in Florida perhaps, to get stuck in

[dbug]

Had both types on Omegas - both are messy removing but IME the spin on cartridge wins hands down for the greatest uncontrollable oil spillage on removal.
I also understand the paper element has a larger surface area compared to the cartridge, and is therefore a more efficient filter.

Guess it maybe a personal preference though

[feeutfo]

Just seems to me there's no real gain, extra expense and another job to do.

But whatever blows, as they say.

[feeutfo]

What's the removal tool for the spin on?

[dbug]

What's the removal tool for the spin on?

Clean way - chain wrench, dirty way - smack a screwdriver through it and turn

[Andy B]

What's the removal tool for the spin on?

I can't see the ref to the removal tool  but don't some use a strap type to hold the body behind the ally paper filter housing to stop it from spinning when the ally housing has been tightened to *%"@ lbft 

[dbug]

What's the removal tool for the spin on?

I can't see the ref to the removal tool  but don't some use a strap type to hold the body behind the ally paper filter housing to stop it from spinning when the ally housing has been tightened to *%"@ lbft 

Think Mr Gixer means spin on cartridge Andy

[Andy B]

What's the removal tool for the spin on?

I can't see the ref to the removal tool  but don't some use a strap type to hold the body behind the ally paper filter housing to stop it from spinning when the ally housing has been tightened to *%"@ lbft 

Think Mr Gixer means spin on cartridge Andy

But Mr Copperslip is in the same group as me ie  'if it aint broke .... don't fix it'   

[dbug]

What's the removal tool for the spin on?

I can't see the ref to the removal tool  but don't some use a strap type to hold the body behind the ally paper filter housing to stop it from spinning when the ally housing has been tightened to *%"@ lbft 

Think Mr Gixer means spin on cartridge Andy

But Mr Copperslip is in the same group as me ie  'if it aint broke .... don't fix it'   

  Agree if its working why fix it but think Gixers question was "What's removal tool for spin on cartridge?"  Thats the question I was answering matey 

[Andy B]

What's the removal tool for the spin on?

I can't see the ref to the removal tool  but don't some use a strap type to hold the body behind the ally paper filter housing to stop it from spinning when the ally housing has been tightened to *%"@ lbft 

Think Mr Gixer means spin on cartridge Andy

But Mr Copperslip is in the same group as me ie  'if it aint broke .... don't fix it'   

  Agree if its working why fix it but think Gixers question was "What's removal tool for spin on cartridge?"  Thats the question I was answering matey 

Agreed.
We'll wait for our learned friend to reply 

[feeutfo]

Yes i was asking about the spin on (not the cap for the paper filter as oe)

So chain wrench, strap type tools. I've used those and they are a bloody nuisance when there's loads of space, never mind when there's one click of room on a decent ratchet as with the cap.

Plus if spin on is punctured with a screw driver to remove the old one, then there's a problem with the new one not fitting/buggered threads/incorrect part, your stuffed, as the old one can't be refitted as a get by.

Nah, stick with the oe canister cap and paper filter one IMO. As AndyP says.

[Nick W]

What's the removal tool for the spin on?

Chain wrench, strap wrench, band wrench, filter pliers, 3claw wrench, leather belt and a bit of sandpaper, screwdriver etc etc. There's loads of them!

[dbdb]

Never had a problem undoing a spin on, often by hand but easy with a chain or belt wrench if necessary.  I figure that is because they will almost always be tightened by hand (what idiot even a kwikfitter would use a tool?) whereas to not overtigthen the canister requires the mechanic to have some knowledge and common sense.

Re. holing original the spin on then wanting to refit it because you bought the wrong one, would you really refit an old filter after draining the oil?  You then either have to put the old oil back in (not a good idea) or put fresh oil into a car with a dirty filter then drain it again to refit a new filter. Surely you'd get your trade card out get on the bus and buy the right filter.

[dbug]

Yes i was asking about the spin on (not the cap for the paper filter as oe)

So chain wrench, strap type tools. I've used those and they are a bloody nuisance when there's loads of space, never mind when there's one click of room on a decent ratchet as with the cap.

Plus if spin on is punctured with a screw driver to remove the old one, then there's a problem with the new one not fitting/buggered threads/incorrect part, your stuffed, as the old one can't be refitted as a get by.

Nah, stick with the oe canister cap and paper filter one IMO. As AndyP says.

The chain wrench I've used to remove stubborn ones takes a 1/2" square extension so ratchet well clear of cartridge - ie plenty of space.

Threaded part of cartridge only extends 1/2" to 1" max into cartridge so plenty of space to use old mucky method and whack a screwdriver through without any potential damage to any threads.  As said not sensible to consider refitting an old filter cartridge though

[feeutfo]

What's the removal tool for the spin on?

Chain wrench, strap wrench, band wrench, filter pliers, 3claw wrench, leather belt and a bit of sandpaper, screwdriver etc etc. There's loads of them!

One less thing to buy then!

[feeutfo]

Yes i was asking about the spin on (not the cap for the paper filter as oe)

So chain wrench, strap type tools. I've used those and they are a bloody nuisance when there's loads of space, never mind when there's one click of room on a decent ratchet as with the cap.

Plus if spin on is punctured with a screw driver to remove the old one, then there's a problem with the new one not fitting/buggered threads/incorrect part, your stuffed, as the old one can't be refitted as a get by.

Nah, stick with the oe canister cap and paper filter one IMO. As AndyP says.

The chain wrench I've used to remove stubborn ones takes a 1/2" square extension so ratchet well clear of cartridge - ie plenty of space.

Threaded part of cartridge only extends 1/2" to 1" max into cartridge so plenty of space to use old mucky method and whack a screwdriver through without any potential damage to any threads.  As said not sensible to consider refitting an old filter cartridge though

of course its not(sensible to re fit the old) but if the old ones punctured, and the new one doesn't fit, you have no car.

[05omegav6]

Assuming it has been fitted correctly, simply undo it by hand.

Two of the Vectras at work have spin ons, only needed force to remove them the first time I serviced them tother one had a canister, but being vertically mounted, no spillage issues 

Not being able to reuse the filter holds no water(oil), as the same applies to a cracked canister 

Also spin on filters are pence

[dbug]

Yes i was asking about the spin on (not the cap for the paper filter as oe)

So chain wrench, strap type tools. I've used those and they are a bloody nuisance when there's loads of space, never mind when there's one click of room on a decent ratchet as with the cap.

Plus if spin on is punctured with a screw driver to remove the old one, then there's a problem with the new one not fitting/buggered threads/incorrect part, your stuffed, as the old one can't be refitted as a get by.

Nah, stick with the oe canister cap and paper filter one IMO. As AndyP says.

The chain wrench I've used to remove stubborn ones takes a 1/2" square extension so ratchet well clear of cartridge - ie plenty of space.

Threaded part of cartridge only extends 1/2" to 1" max into cartridge so plenty of space to use old mucky method and whack a screwdriver through without any potential damage to any threads.  As said not sensible to consider refitting an old filter cartridge though

of course its not(sensible to re fit the old) but if the old ones punctured, and the new one doesn't fit, you have no car.

Most of the spin ons have the same thread, differing only in capacity, so in an emergency an incorrect one could well fit.

Moral is get the correct one - you'd order the correct shockers or springs wouldn't you?

As for your car being "incapacitated", surely you've got a friend who would help out 

Agreed though keep to the paper type if its not bu**ered

[feeutfo]

Yes i was asking about the spin on (not the cap for the paper filter as oe)

So chain wrench, strap type tools. I've used those and they are a bloody nuisance when there's loads of space, never mind when there's one click of room on a decent ratchet as with the cap.

Plus if spin on is punctured with a screw driver to remove the old one, then there's a problem with the new one not fitting/buggered threads/incorrect part, your stuffed, as the old one can't be refitted as a get by.

Nah, stick with the oe canister cap and paper filter one IMO. As AndyP says.

The chain wrench I've used to remove stubborn ones takes a 1/2" square extension so ratchet well clear of cartridge - ie plenty of space.

Threaded part of cartridge only extends 1/2" to 1" max into cartridge so plenty of space to use old mucky method and whack a screwdriver through without any potential damage to any threads.  As said not sensible to consider refitting an old filter cartridge though

of course its not(sensible to re fit the old) but if the old ones punctured, and the new one doesn't fit, you have no car.

Most of the spin ons have the same thread, differing only in capacity, so in an emergency an incorrect one could well fit.

Moral is get the correct one - you'd order the correct shockers or springs wouldn't you?

As for your car being "incapacitated", surely you've got a friend who would help out 

Agreed though keep to the paper type if its not bu**ered

Can think of at least two I had with faulty threads, and I haven't had that many cars with the spin on filter.

Nobody intends to order the wrong one. Nobody intends to supply the wrong one. But it happens.

Incapacitated depends on circumstances, it might be inconvenient, it might not.

Point is, keep your options open. Save money on tools. And leave the damn thing alone.

[dbug]

My chain wrench cost 2/10ths of fa, and has proved useful over the years in helping others on oil filters and other items.

Agree though that if you have the paper element type filter, and its still fully functional, its not worth changing over.  Have this type on current Estate, and had no probs changing filter, had spin ons on the two previous Elites, and apart from my first oil change when they were b*ggers to get off, had no issues on subsequent filter changes.

[feeutfo]

My chain wrench cost 2/10ths of fa, and has proved useful over the years in helping others on oil filters and other items.

Agree though that if you have the paper element type filter, and its still fully functional, its not worth changing over.  Have this type on current Estate, and had no probs changing filter, had spin ons on the two previous Elites, and apart from my first oil change when they were b*ggers to get off, had no issues on subsequent filter changes.

Are we agreeing...? Bugger that, convert them, paper filters are shite.

[dbug]

My chain wrench cost 2/10ths of fa, and has proved useful over the years in helping others on oil filters and other items.

Agree though that if you have the paper element type filter, and its still fully functional, its not worth changing over.  Have this type on current Estate, and had no probs changing filter, had spin ons on the two previous Elites, and apart from my first oil change when they were b*ggers to get off, had no issues on subsequent filter changes.

Are we agreeing...? Bugger that, convert them, paper filters are shite.

 

[TheBoy]

I use oil filter pliers to remove stubborn spin on filters.

Last oil change on the bullet, the dealer supplied VOF93 was faulty. Dealer shut. As it happened, I'd bought 2, so no issue, but its perfectly possible that the old filter would have had to have gone back on if I didn't.

Very little difference in cost between GM spin on and GM element, the element is more efficient, and far less messy to change. No brainer 

[Nick W]

Very little difference in cost between GM spin on and GM element, the element is more efficient, and far less messy to change. No brainer 

Care to elaborate on that? If you cut a spin on filter open(everybody does that to check on how well and what it's filtering, don't they?) you'll find the same paper type element inside. The only real difference is packaging/convenience. Personally, I'll stick with spin-ons as I find them quicker/easier/tidier to change.

[feeutfo]

I wonder what's the next contentious issue dbdb will post up? We've had tyres, oil, filter.

What's next, lowering?

[TheBoy]

Very little difference in cost between GM spin on and GM element, the element is more efficient, and far less messy to change. No brainer 

Care to elaborate on that? If you cut a spin on filter open(everybody does that to check on how well and what it's filtering, don't they?) you'll find the same paper type element inside. The only real difference is packaging/convenience. Personally, I'll stick with spin-ons as I find them quicker/easier/tidier to change.

Its supposed to have a larger surface area

Note, I haven't bothered unfolding both types...

[dbdb]

I wonder what's the next contentious issue dbdb will post up? We've had tyres, oil, filter.

What's next, lowering?

Why don't you play the ball instead of the man? They weren't contentious when I put them up.  The oil one hadn't been done for 5 years and oils have changed in that time (though some members haven't), tyres was your contention I believe and this thread wasn't contentious at all until certain people joined in. 

Incidentally I find it hard to believe the paper filters have a larger surface area since I am sure they have a significantly smaller diameter than the spin ons but I can't be arsed to check it - I have resigned myself to reading the (thankfully) occasional bizarre claim stated as absolute gospel here.  Besides if you question the claim the play swiftly moves to the man I have found. 

[feeutfo]

Oh yes, paint as well. Your sig reminded me.


So what's the verdict dbdb? Spin on or keep the canister cap/paper job?

[dbdb]

So what's the verdict dbdb? Spin on or keep the canister cap/paper job?

When I started the thread I didn't realise it was an issue, the OOF article on changing to spin on led me to think it was accepted wisdom but here you can never tell.  It always has and still does seem obvious to me that spin on is easier, cheaper, more reliable and will cause less trouble.  I also suspect spin on filters have larger surface area and filter better. But I suppose its like vinyl v CD or round earth v flat earth, not everyone agrees on everything.

[TheBoy]

Come on boys and girls, play nicely in the playground. If you want to measure your manhood, there are plenty of other suitable sites. Merci.

If you are posting in such a way that you're making out something is based on fact, try to base it on your own experience

I currently have 2 V6 Omegas, one with spin on, other with cartridge.  Would I change the cartridge to spin on? Unlikely. Would I change the spin on to cartridge? Maybe, not sure if its worth the effort/cost for a slightly easier and cleaner oil change.

[dbug]

Remember reading on a Vx Bulletin or TIS that the V6 filter was upgraded from the spin on on the earlier models to the later paper filter for improved filtering efficiency (around 1999 I think).

Believe the Omega howto on conversion back to spin off came about as a cheap way of dealing with the increasing number of broken filter body/tops that were being reported at that time.

[dbdb]

dbug perhaps you can locate that bulletin you recall.   

In the 1990s, car makers began to shift back in favor of replaceable-element filter construction, to improving their recycling and sustainability figures - no steel is used for the life of the car for oil changes if a paper element is used.  Typically such calculations by bean counters and legislators takes no account of the extra labour, spillage, seized lids and mess of the paper element. The fact that the paper ones cost much less to make but cost more to buy may be a factor too. 

Re filtration I do not have the paper element to hand now but when I had the two together I'm sure the paper in the spin on had a large diameter and I think similar length, perhaps someone can measure a paper cartridge and we can compare.  If I am right the spin on almost certainly filters better.  I suppose its possible GM GM shrank particle size spec  in which case the paper ones are going to clog a lot sooner. 

Anyway any saving in wear due to such a small change in filtration is surely going to be trivial especially if you change your oil and filter regularly.