Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Nickbat on 05 June 2012, 23:48:46
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I don't suppose anyone has noticed but, in these economically tumultuous times, global markets have suffered "dismally low-volume" levels of trading the past two days (to quote zero hedge).
Tomorrow, the City gets back to work after the long Jubilee weekend. Expect trading to be hectic.
The City of London really does drive the world's economic engine. That's why we have to support it, IMHO. :y
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Absolutely Nick. :y
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Yes. I also heard that in Spain, in particular, stocks have been rising over the long weekend. But, I also heard, that will stop when London starts trading today and our hedge fund managers resume damaging the economy.
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Yes even this old gett can see the need to look after these institutions as a body despite my natural inclination to suspect that global money markets, and the way they're operated, have been responsible for much of the current woes - but that's just me; although I am quite prepared to keep an open mind on the subject.
The main disadvantage with depending on such a means of revenue generation, in what is undoubtedly a very mercurial field (given my very limited understanding of such things), is that the more reliance placed on those very institutions considered to be of such importance to the financial health of this country leaves little room for manoeuvre should things go teats-up in the wider financial world.
Will the adoption of a Financial Transaction Tax within the EU Zone have any negative impact in the ‘City’ should the EU insist that London be bound by the new arrangements, or will Westminster oppose any such move to protect our national interests?
I would also be concerned, in the light of the coming talks between the ‘big four’ within the Zone, that a grab for closer fiscal/political union will be made using the rule of the ‘beneficial crises’, leading inevitably to an inner/outer European Zone of political influence and potentially isolating London as a centre of financial importance - unless we throw the towel in and join the club without precondition.
Given such capitulation would we not then be at the mercy of those who would rather see the centre of financial operations based closer to the seat of power within Europe (and by extension within easy reach should the need ever dictate)?
Westminster may well be caught sleeping on the job again as events seem to be moving apace: given that, I have no doubt that there will again be another clusteropps of confusion, half-baked measures and unadulterated ballicking about in the attempts to present some indication that this country is being properly governed and that the wider financial world should continue to have confidence that London remains safe as a centre of ‘financial excellence’ – whatever that really means.
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Yes. I also heard that in Spain, in particular, stocks have been rising over the long weekend. But, I also heard, that will stop when London starts trading today and our hedge fund managers resume damaging the economy.
;D :y
actually they permit the flow of money only in one direction.. upwards :-X
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Yes. I also heard that in Spain, in particular, stocks have been rising over the long weekend. But, I also heard, that will stop when London starts trading today and our hedge fund managers resume damaging the economy.
;D :y
actually they permit the flow of money only in one direction.. upwards :-X
Sorry Cem,but that simply isnt true. From the mid nineties the City of London had a decade long boom which fueled a boom throughout the whole of the U.K economy.The treasury had unprecedented amounts of money in its coffers due to the activity in the square mile with which they could have completely rebuilt the infrastructure of the whole country - unfortunately they (socialists, who had no financial nouse at all) wasted almost every penny of it. ;)
Den - I doubt that Europe could isolate London as a financial centre.Its the biggest in the world and is truely global,which is why they would love nothing more than to get their grubby mits on the controlling levers - which would of course bring about its ruination within a very short space of time. We rely far too heavily on the financial sector,but in the short to medium term we should be glad that we have something to rely on,unlike Greece,Spain etc. ;)
Long term imo we need to overcome the challenge of building up other sectors of the economy to be as globally competitive as the financial sector is,against the backdrop of extremely cheap labour costs in the East. We are already part way there with certain areas of engineering and technology.
We seem to be able to excel at the highest level in certain areas,which is why most F1 teams are based here and we also have companies such as ARM technoligies. If we can help these sectors grow we can get there Im sure. We still have the problem though of having developed the technology we outsource the manufacture and assembly to the far east. Not an easy hurdle to ovecome.Manufacture and assembly tend to be the areas where large numbers of jobs are created,particularily with an under educated population,which we now seem to have.
Reports of the demise of the U.K. may just be premature ? We just need to ensure that we keep politicians as far away from any involvement in the process as is possible. :)
Low taxation/less regulation is the key.If the politicians can be brave enough to create that climate,the rest might just take care of itself.
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::) ;D
classical rightwing.. even your leftwings are too much on the right ;D :P
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Yes. I also heard that in Spain, in particular, stocks have been rising over the long weekend. But, I also heard, that will stop when London starts trading today and our hedge fund managers resume damaging the economy.
;D :y
actually they permit the flow of money only in one direction.. upwards :-X
Sorry Cem,but that simply isnt true. From the mid nineties the City of London had a decade long boom which fueled a boom throughout the whole of the U.K economy.The treasury had unprecedented amounts of money in its coffers due to the activity in the square mile with which they could have completely rebuilt the infrastructure of the whole country - unfortunately they (socialists, who had no financial nouse at all) wasted almost every penny of it. ;)
Den - I doubt that Europe could isolate London as a financial centre.Its the biggest in the world and is truely global,which is why they would love nothing more than to get their grubby mits on the controlling levers - which would of course bring about its ruination within a very short space of time. We rely far too heavily on the financial sector,but in the short to medium term we should be glad that we have something to rely on,unlike Greece,Spain etc. ;)
Long term imo we need to overcome the challenge of building up other sectors of the economy to be as globally competitive as the financial sector is,against the backdrop of extremely cheap labour costs in the East. We are already part way there with certain areas of engineering and technology.
We seem to be able to excel at the highest level in certain areas,which is why most F1 teams are based here and we also have companies such as ARM technoligies. If we can help these sectors grow we can get there Im sure. We still have the problem though of having developed the technology we outsource the manufacture and assembly to the far east. Not an easy hurdle to ovecome.Manufacture and assembly tend to be the areas where large numbers of jobs are created,particularily with an under educated population,which we now seem to have.
Reports of the demise of the U.K. may just be premature ? We just need to ensure that we keep politicians as far away from any involvement in the process as is possible. :)
Low taxation/less regulation is the key.If the politicians can be brave enough to create that climate,the rest might just take care of itself.
Mostly I'd agree with you here Albs, but as far as I remember wasn't it the deregulation of the banks in the US and here that started off the whole financial crisis in the first place?? ::)
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here I must note, in capitalist system, its a proven historical fact that it repeats crisis periodically because whatever solutions applied even "socialist" precautions (which I must say it gives life breath to the system temporarily ;) ) , wont solve anything permanently because the system itself turns back to original state and starts the whole cycle of pumping money in upwards direction in the pyramide and soon lower sections start to collapse and the whole later.. ::)
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here I must note, in capitalist system, its a proven historical fact that it repeats crisis periodically because whatever solutions applied even "socialist" precautions (which I must say it gives life breath to the system temporarily ;) ) , wont solve anything permanently because the system itself turns back to original state and starts the whole cycle of pumping money in upwards direction in the pyramide and soon lower sections start to collapse and the whole later.. ::)
Whereas socialist systems are permanently in crisis. :y
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I don't suppose anyone has noticed but, in these economically tumultuous times, global markets have suffered "dismally low-volume" levels of trading the past two days (to quote zero hedge).
Tomorrow, the City gets back to work after the long Jubilee weekend. Expect trading to be hectic.
The City of London really does drive the world's economic engine. That's why we have to support it, IMHO. :y
Crap. It's greedy and inept city boys who bought this country to it's knees in 2008/9. No matter though, we bailed out the spivs and wide-boys with taxpayer money. :)
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I don't suppose anyone has noticed but, in these economically tumultuous times, global markets have suffered "dismally low-volume" levels of trading the past two days (to quote zero hedge).
Tomorrow, the City gets back to work after the long Jubilee weekend. Expect trading to be hectic.
The City of London really does drive the world's economic engine. That's why we have to support it, IMHO. :y
Crap. It's greedy and inept city boys who bought this country to it's knees in 2008/9. No matter though, we bailed out the spivs and wide-boys with taxpayer money. :)
Nothing to do with big headed arrogant socialist idiots running the country then
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I don't suppose anyone has noticed but, in these economically tumultuous times, global markets have suffered "dismally low-volume" levels of trading the past two days (to quote zero hedge).
Tomorrow, the City gets back to work after the long Jubilee weekend. Expect trading to be hectic.
The City of London really does drive the world's economic engine. That's why we have to support it, IMHO. :y
Crap. It's greedy and inept city boys who bought this country to it's knees in 2008/9. No matter though, we bailed out the spivs and wide-boys with taxpayer money. :)
Nothing to do with big headed arrogant socialist idiots running the country then
As a matter of fact it was........Although I'm reluctant to call Blair and Brown socialists. They were so keen to show the city how business friendly New Labour was, that they allowed the banks to work with virtually no regulation. How crazy was that? :-\
Perhaps we should deregulate the NBS (National blood service) and make Dracula the CEO. :-\
Some business is responsible enough to self-regulate, but banks should always be heavily regulated by government. We've seen how dismissive they were of "light touch" regulation.
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here I must note, in capitalist system, its a proven historical fact that it repeats crisis periodically because whatever solutions applied even "socialist" precautions (which I must say it gives life breath to the system temporarily ;) ) , wont solve anything permanently because the system itself turns back to original state and starts the whole cycle of pumping money in upwards direction in the pyramide and soon lower sections start to collapse and the whole later.. ::)
Whereas socialist systems are permanently in crisis. :y
nope..
there are examples that bought the US bonds and keep US alive ;D
honestly, those systems dont depend on heavily transferred external capital.. and based mostly on self production..
but if you force them to race for costly arms production and war games , they can collapse of course..
because their economies are not build and designed for continous wars/war games..
and must add though, none of them have/had the luxury to create money(with nearly zero cost) like US..
but world production centers have shifted and global economy game has changed.. and god knows how long those capital monsters can survive their large hole budgets with wars..
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it is an unethical business of that we can be certain. No honest work done there for an honest days pay. No just a gamblers casino where rich rewards are paid for success and failure...... well mostly swept under the carpet and occasionally, very occasionally someone hung out to dry.
However it does make a lot of money and I for one would hate a Tobin tax that would spread a % of that over the EU. I would be quite happy for it just to be spread overr the UK however.
When the dust settles from this current crisis and we take stock of what actually makes the Uk money we will HAVE to value the "City". Perversely the aim ought to be to quadruple operations in order to provide employment and thus tax revenue. We are going to need a lot of tax to pay off the ever increasing national debt.
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it is an unethical business of that we can be certain. No honest work done there for an honest days pay. No just a gamblers casino where rich rewards are paid for success and failure...... well mostly swept under the carpet and occasionally, very occasionally someone hung out to dry.
However it does make a lot of money and I for one would hate a Tobin tax that would spread a % of that over the EU. I would be quite happy for it just to be spread overr the UK however.
When the dust settles from this current crisis and we take stock of what actually makes the Uk money we will HAVE to value the "City". Perversely the aim ought to be to quadruple operations in order to provide employment and thus tax revenue. We are going to need a lot of tax to pay off the ever increasing national debt.
A big sweeping generalisation about a global industry in which millions of people work. ::)
Having seen it first hand,trust me theres not many people capable of the level of work required and the amount of pressue involved. ;)
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it is an unethical business of that we can be certain. No honest work done there for an honest days pay. No just a gamblers casino where rich rewards are paid for success and failure...... well mostly swept under the carpet and occasionally, very occasionally someone hung out to dry.
However it does make a lot of money and I for one would hate a Tobin tax that would spread a % of that over the EU. I would be quite happy for it just to be spread overr the UK however.
When the dust settles from this current crisis and we take stock of what actually makes the Uk money we will HAVE to value the "City". Perversely the aim ought to be to quadruple operations in order to provide employment and thus tax revenue. We are going to need a lot of tax to pay off the ever increasing national debt.
A big sweeping generalisation about a global industry in which millions of people work. ::)
Having seen it first hand,trust me theres not many people capable of the level of work required and the amount of pressue involved. ;)
Having experience in the Hedge Fund industry I would agree, Albs. That said, there are also a lot of low pressure jobs done by numpties. In this respect it is no different to many other industries.
Concerning the start of the economic meltdown, I once saw (and will try to find) a stickman sketch showing what it was all about with some bright spark deciding to wrap up a load of crap mortgages (which should have never been granted in the first place) and sell them on. So when Joe Bloggs X thousands cannot pay their mortgages it goes belly up. Will search for it.
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You should also bear in mind that a lot of the trading is done according to algorithmic models so the "computer says no (or yes)" comes into play. Equally on the regulatory side there is a lot of computer assisted support.
The US mortgage thing suckered in a lot of people who I suspect overrode systems which assess risk.
This is a huge industry which we should be proud of but not complacent about.
The huge number of funds that hold pension fund assets do give me a cause for concern. When the FTSE 100 hits 5900 for example I am a seller (little upside, plenty of downside in current climate) - but as it drops down those funds that failed to switch into risk averse assets still take the commissions on the basis that it will bounce back and it is long term - this is no use to someone investing a retirement pot or drawing down at the wrong time. This area needs attention as the client has been let down.
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And how did we arrive at the situation whereby all those yanks had mortages they couldnt afford to pay ?
Because politicians pressurised lenders into lending them the money,in an ill advised social engineering policy. ;)
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And how did we arrive at the situation whereby all those yanks had mortages they couldnt afford to pay ?
Because politicians pressurised lenders into lending them the money,in an ill advised social engineering policy. ;)
lets face it Albs it isn't Honest work. Never will be. Honest work is a guy making a piece of china and selling it for his labour plus a margin. Or building a car and selling it for a bit more than the development costs, materials and labour etc. Gambling, and make no mistake that is all it is with someone elses money isn't doing an honest days work. I however still stand behind my statement that the Uk needs to quadruple its Banking/Hedge fund/gambling activities and derive a good tax stream from it. We are good at it. It isn't going to get a good tax stream from a smaller public sector or manufacturing or folk on the dole/benefits.
I don't doubt it is a pressured environment (so is going to Las Vegas with the family fortune and betting it all on red on the last day ;D).
If the politicians interfered would there still have been bad loans? Yes. Just look at Spain. That was due to a Central banking edict to keep loan %'s low. You could argue that was down to Brussels but at the end of the day the banks do have a responsibility.
like I said before, when things go well they pay themselves tremendous bonuses. when they go badly they still pay themselves tremendous bonuses. Poor things. No one makes them do this "work".
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There really are no words. ::)
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it is an unethical business of that we can be certain. No honest work done there for an honest days pay. No just a gamblers casino where rich rewards are paid for success and failure...... well mostly swept under the carpet and occasionally, very occasionally someone hung out to dry.
However it does make a lot of money and I for one would hate a Tobin tax that would spread a % of that over the EU. I would be quite happy for it just to be spread overr the UK however.
When the dust settles from this current crisis and we take stock of what actually makes the Uk money we will HAVE to value the "City". Perversely the aim ought to be to quadruple operations in order to provide employment and thus tax revenue. We are going to need a lot of tax to pay off the ever increasing national debt.
A big sweeping generalisation about a global industry in which millions of people work. ::)
Having seen it first hand,trust me theres not many people capable of the level of work required and the amount of pressue involved. ;)
Having experience in the Hedge Fund industry I would agree, Albs. That said, there are also a lot of low pressure jobs done by numpties. In this respect it is no different to many other industries.
Concerning the start of the economic meltdown, I once saw (and will try to find) a stickman sketch showing what it was all about with some bright spark deciding to wrap up a load of crap mortgages (which should have never been granted in the first place) and sell them on. So when Joe Bloggs X thousands cannot pay their mortgages it goes belly up. Will search for it.
Think this is it, but cannot view it in Germany. Should be a couple of sticks selling some stinky mortgages. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJH2CcpXztE
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Think this is it, but cannot view it in Germany. Should be a couple of sticks selling some stinky mortgages. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJH2CcpXztE
Coming up here blocked as well V6. :(
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Think this is it, but cannot view it in Germany. Should be a couple of sticks selling some stinky mortgages. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJH2CcpXztE
Coming up here blocked as well V6. :(
http://wn.com/Subprime_Mortgage_Crisis_EXPLAINED!
Video number 6 was the one I was thinking of
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And how did we arrive at the situation whereby all those yanks had mortages they couldnt afford to pay ?
Because politicians pressurised lenders into lending them the money,in an ill advised social engineering policy. ;)
lets face it Albs it isn't Honest work. Never will be. Honest work is a guy making a piece of china and selling it for his labour plus a margin. Or building a car and selling it for a bit more than the development costs, materials and labour etc. Gambling, and make no mistake that is all it is with someone elses money isn't doing an honest days work. I however still stand behind my statement that the Uk needs to quadruple its Banking/Hedge fund/gambling activities and derive a good tax stream from it. We are good at it. It isn't going to get a good tax stream from a smaller public sector or manufacturing or folk on the dole/benefits.
I don't doubt it is a pressured environment (so is going to Las Vegas with the family fortune and betting it all on red on the last day ;D).
If the politicians interfered would there still have been bad loans? Yes. Just look at Spain. That was due to a Central banking edict to keep loan %'s low. You could argue that was down to Brussels but at the end of the day the banks do have a responsibility.
like I said before, when things go well they pay themselves tremendous bonuses. when they go badly they still pay themselves tremendous bonuses. Poor things. No one makes them do this "work".
Sorry, Varche, but that really is a rather ridiculous view of the financial world, IMHO. You mention car production as an example. Where do you think the car companies get the money to build factories? Where do they find the facilities to pay their suppliers? Is there a giant GM mattress under which they place the currency? No. Society would be lost without banks - fact. Our pensions rely on the investments made by banks. It's not gambling. If someone said to you, listen, Varche, lend me EUR 10,000 to set up a new vineyard and I'll give you a 20% p.a. return on your capital, would you dismiss it out of hand - not because it may seem an risky investment, but because you do see it as gambling?
Well done to those who point out the political interference at the heart the US junk-mortgage crisis that started all this off, along with the dodgy Wall Street algorithms (based on the Gaussian copula formula) and, of course, the obscene levels of public expenditure seen throughout the western world, but especially in the the EU, and even more particularly amongst the PIIGS. I know it's much easier to blame banker bonuses, but it's an intellectual cop-out, IMHO. ::) ::)
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And how did we arrive at the situation whereby all those yanks had mortages they couldnt afford to pay ?
Because politicians pressurised lenders into lending them the money,in an ill advised social engineering policy. ;)
lets face it Albs it isn't Honest work. Never will be. Honest work is a guy making a piece of china and selling it for his labour plus a margin. Or building a car and selling it for a bit more than the development costs, materials and labour etc. Gambling, and make no mistake that is all it is with someone elses money isn't doing an honest days work. I however still stand behind my statement that the Uk needs to quadruple its Banking/Hedge fund/gambling activities and derive a good tax stream from it. We are good at it. It isn't going to get a good tax stream from a smaller public sector or manufacturing or folk on the dole/benefits.
I don't doubt it is a pressured environment (so is going to Las Vegas with the family fortune and betting it all on red on the last day ;D).
If the politicians interfered would there still have been bad loans? Yes. Just look at Spain. That was due to a Central banking edict to keep loan %'s low. You could argue that was down to Brussels but at the end of the day the banks do have a responsibility.
like I said before, when things go well they pay themselves tremendous bonuses. when they go badly they still pay themselves tremendous bonuses. Poor things. No one makes them do this "work".
Sorry, Varche, but that really is a rather ridiculous view of the financial world, IMHO. You mention car production as an example. Where do you think the car companies get the money to build factories? Where do they find the facilities to pay their suppliers? Is there a giant GM mattress under which they place the currency? No. Society would be lost without banks - fact. Our pensions rely on the investments made by banks. It's not gambling. If someone said to you, listen, Varche, lend me EUR 10,000 to set up a new vineyard and I'll give you a 20% p.a. return on your capital, would you dismiss it out of hand - not because it may seem an risky investment, but because you do see it as gambling?
Well done to those who point out the political interference at the heart the US junk-mortgage crisis that started all this off, along with the dodgy Wall Street algorithms (based on the Gaussian copula formula) and, of course, the obscene levels of public expenditure seen throughout the western world, but especially in the the EU, and even more particularly amongst the PIIGS. I know it's much easier to blame banker bonuses, but it's an intellectual cop-out, IMHO. ::) ::)
+1 :y
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Think this is it, but cannot view it in Germany. Should be a couple of sticks selling some stinky mortgages. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJH2CcpXztE
Coming up here blocked as well V6. :(
http://wn.com/Subprime_Mortgage_Crisis_EXPLAINED!
Video number 6 was the one I was thinking of
Well done V6 - I've had a look at the first offering on the list and it went some way to getting a measure of understanding past my thick skull - I'll have a look at the remainder later on when things ease off a bit; as a matter of fact it appears to be quite interesting so I'm rather looking forward to learning more. :y
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Think this is it, but cannot view it in Germany. Should be a couple of sticks selling some stinky mortgages. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJH2CcpXztE
Coming up here blocked as well V6. :(
http://wn.com/Subprime_Mortgage_Crisis_EXPLAINED!
Video number 6 was the one I was thinking of
Well done V6 - I've had a look at the first offering on the list and it went some way to getting a measure of understanding past my thick skull - I'll have a look at the remainder later on when things ease off a bit; as a matter of fact it appears to be quite interesting so I'm rather looking forward to learning more. :y
Video SIX is the one. A comical, but true(ish) view on things
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And how did we arrive at the situation whereby all those yanks had mortages they couldnt afford to pay ?
Because politicians pressurised lenders into lending them the money,in an ill advised social engineering policy. ;)
lets face it Albs it isn't Honest work. Never will be. Honest work is a guy making a piece of china and selling it for his labour plus a margin. Or building a car and selling it for a bit more than the development costs, materials and labour etc. Gambling, and make no mistake that is all it is with someone elses money isn't doing an honest days work. I however still stand behind my statement that the Uk needs to quadruple its Banking/Hedge fund/gambling activities and derive a good tax stream from it. We are good at it. It isn't going to get a good tax stream from a smaller public sector or manufacturing or folk on the dole/benefits.
I don't doubt it is a pressured environment (so is going to Las Vegas with the family fortune and betting it all on red on the last day ;D).
If the politicians interfered would there still have been bad loans? Yes. Just look at Spain. That was due to a Central banking edict to keep loan %'s low. You could argue that was down to Brussels but at the end of the day the banks do have a responsibility.
like I said before, when things go well they pay themselves tremendous bonuses. when they go badly they still pay themselves tremendous bonuses. Poor things. No one makes them do this "work".
Sorry, Varche, but that really is a rather ridiculous view of the financial world, IMHO. You mention car production as an example. Where do you think the car companies get the money to build factories? Where do they find the facilities to pay their suppliers? Is there a giant GM mattress under which they place the currency? No. Society would be lost without banks - fact. Our pensions rely on the investments made by banks. It's not gambling. If someone said to you, listen, Varche, lend me EUR 10,000 to set up a new vineyard and I'll give you a 20% p.a. return on your capital, would you dismiss it out of hand - not because it may seem an risky investment, but because you do see it as gambling?
Well done to those who point out the political interference at the heart the US junk-mortgage crisis that started all this off, along with the dodgy Wall Street algorithms (based on the Gaussian copula formula) and, of course, the obscene levels of public expenditure seen throughout the western world, but especially in the the EU, and even more particularly amongst the PIIGS. I know it's much easier to blame banker bonuses, but it's an intellectual cop-out, IMHO. ::) ::)
Actually as I try to look at this objectively Nick I'm coming to the conclusion that to single out the bonuses/pay level or personalities within the banking system deflects attention away from what I see to be a systemic failure of the entire financial system brought about by people and institutions prepared to do most anything to turn a profit or make a buck.
Amid the leviathan of technological aids and instant communication now available to those in the financial world, the rather more prosaic inclination towards the human condition has perhaps been more instrumental in starting the conflagration, and subsequently adding fuel to the fire, by motivating people to do what a lot of them (understandably) are inclined to do best - make the most of a bad situation by looking after themselves irrespective of the consequences.
Perhaps it's not computer systems, institutional bodies or any other form of systemic apparatus that made that this whole situation ruin out of control - but merely people who choose not to think holistically because many simply cannot do so.
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::)
ow yes.. as said "blame it on the hardware" ;D