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[albitz]

it is an unethical business of that we can be certain. No honest work done there for an honest days pay. No just a gamblers casino where rich rewards are paid for success and failure...... well mostly swept under the carpet and occasionally, very occasionally someone hung out to dry.

However it does make a lot of money and I for one would hate a Tobin tax that would spread a % of that over the EU. I would be quite happy for it just to be spread overr the UK however.

When the dust settles from this current crisis and we take stock of what actually makes the Uk money we will HAVE to value the "City". Perversely the aim ought to be to quadruple operations in order to provide employment and thus tax revenue. We are going to need a lot of tax to pay off the ever increasing national debt.

A big sweeping generalisation about a global industry in which millions of people work.
Having seen it first hand,trust me theres not many people capable of the level of work required and the amount of pressue involved.

[OOMV6]

it is an unethical business of that we can be certain. No honest work done there for an honest days pay. No just a gamblers casino where rich rewards are paid for success and failure...... well mostly swept under the carpet and occasionally, very occasionally someone hung out to dry.

However it does make a lot of money and I for one would hate a Tobin tax that would spread a % of that over the EU. I would be quite happy for it just to be spread overr the UK however.

When the dust settles from this current crisis and we take stock of what actually makes the Uk money we will HAVE to value the "City". Perversely the aim ought to be to quadruple operations in order to provide employment and thus tax revenue. We are going to need a lot of tax to pay off the ever increasing national debt.

A big sweeping generalisation about a global industry in which millions of people work.
Having seen it first hand,trust me theres not many people capable of the level of work required and the amount of pressue involved.

Having experience in the Hedge Fund industry I would agree, Albs. That said, there are also a lot of low pressure jobs done by numpties. In this respect it is no different to many other industries.

Concerning the start of the economic meltdown, I once saw (and will try to find) a stickman sketch showing what it was all about with some bright spark deciding to wrap up a load of crap mortgages (which should have never been granted in the first place) and sell them on. So when Joe Bloggs X thousands cannot pay their mortgages it goes belly up. Will search for it.

[pscocoa]

You should also bear in mind that a lot of the trading is done according to algorithmic models so the "computer says no (or yes)" comes into play. Equally on the regulatory side there is a lot of computer assisted support.

The US mortgage thing suckered in a lot of people who I suspect overrode systems which assess risk.

This is a huge industry which we should be proud of but not complacent about.

The huge number of funds that hold pension fund assets do give me a cause for concern. When the FTSE 100 hits 5900 for example  I am a seller (little upside, plenty of downside in current climate) - but as it drops down those funds that failed to switch into risk averse assets still take the commissions on the basis that it will bounce back and it is long term - this is no use to someone investing a retirement pot or drawing down at the wrong time. This area needs attention as the client has been let down.

[albitz]

And how did we arrive at the situation whereby all those yanks had mortages they couldnt afford to pay ?
Because politicians pressurised lenders into lending them the money,in an ill advised social engineering policy.

[Varche]

And how did we arrive at the situation whereby all those yanks had mortages they couldnt afford to pay ?
Because politicians pressurised lenders into lending them the money,in an ill advised social engineering policy.

lets face it Albs it isn't Honest work. Never will be. Honest work is a guy making a piece of china and selling it for his labour plus a margin. Or building a car and selling it for a bit more than the development costs, materials and labour etc. Gambling, and make no mistake that is all it is with someone elses money isn't doing an honest days work. I however still stand behind my statement that the Uk needs to quadruple its Banking/Hedge fund/gambling activities and derive a good tax stream from it. We are good at it. It isn't going to get a good tax stream from a smaller public sector or manufacturing or folk on the dole/benefits.

I don't doubt it is a pressured environment (so is going to Las Vegas with the family fortune and betting it all on red on the last day ).

If the politicians interfered would there still have been bad loans? Yes. Just look at Spain. That was due to a Central banking edict to keep loan %'s low.  You could argue that was down to Brussels but at the end of the day the banks do have a responsibility.

like I said before, when things go well they pay themselves tremendous bonuses. when they go badly they still pay themselves tremendous bonuses. Poor things. No one makes them do this "work".

[albitz]

There really are no words.

[OOMV6]

it is an unethical business of that we can be certain. No honest work done there for an honest days pay. No just a gamblers casino where rich rewards are paid for success and failure...... well mostly swept under the carpet and occasionally, very occasionally someone hung out to dry.

However it does make a lot of money and I for one would hate a Tobin tax that would spread a % of that over the EU. I would be quite happy for it just to be spread overr the UK however.

When the dust settles from this current crisis and we take stock of what actually makes the Uk money we will HAVE to value the "City". Perversely the aim ought to be to quadruple operations in order to provide employment and thus tax revenue. We are going to need a lot of tax to pay off the ever increasing national debt.

A big sweeping generalisation about a global industry in which millions of people work.
Having seen it first hand,trust me theres not many people capable of the level of work required and the amount of pressue involved.

Having experience in the Hedge Fund industry I would agree, Albs. That said, there are also a lot of low pressure jobs done by numpties. In this respect it is no different to many other industries.

Concerning the start of the economic meltdown, I once saw (and will try to find) a stickman sketch showing what it was all about with some bright spark deciding to wrap up a load of crap mortgages (which should have never been granted in the first place) and sell them on. So when Joe Bloggs X thousands cannot pay their mortgages it goes belly up. Will search for it.

Think this is it, but cannot view it in Germany. Should be a couple of sticks selling some stinky mortgages. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJH2CcpXztE

[Dishevelled Den]

Think this is it, but cannot view it in Germany. Should be a couple of sticks selling some stinky mortgages. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJH2CcpXztE

Coming up here blocked as well V6.

[OOMV6]

Think this is it, but cannot view it in Germany. Should be a couple of sticks selling some stinky mortgages. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJH2CcpXztE

Coming up here blocked as well V6.

http://wn.com/Subprime_Mortgage_Crisis_EXPLAINED!

Video number 6 was the one I was thinking of

[Nickbat]

And how did we arrive at the situation whereby all those yanks had mortages they couldnt afford to pay ?
Because politicians pressurised lenders into lending them the money,in an ill advised social engineering policy.

lets face it Albs it isn't Honest work. Never will be. Honest work is a guy making a piece of china and selling it for his labour plus a margin. Or building a car and selling it for a bit more than the development costs, materials and labour etc. Gambling, and make no mistake that is all it is with someone elses money isn't doing an honest days work. I however still stand behind my statement that the Uk needs to quadruple its Banking/Hedge fund/gambling activities and derive a good tax stream from it. We are good at it. It isn't going to get a good tax stream from a smaller public sector or manufacturing or folk on the dole/benefits.

I don't doubt it is a pressured environment (so is going to Las Vegas with the family fortune and betting it all on red on the last day ).

If the politicians interfered would there still have been bad loans? Yes. Just look at Spain. That was due to a Central banking edict to keep loan %'s low.  You could argue that was down to Brussels but at the end of the day the banks do have a responsibility.

like I said before, when things go well they pay themselves tremendous bonuses. when they go badly they still pay themselves tremendous bonuses. Poor things. No one makes them do this "work".

Sorry, Varche, but that really is a rather ridiculous view of the financial world, IMHO. You mention car production as an example. Where do you think the car companies get the money to build factories? Where do they find the facilities to pay their suppliers? Is there a giant GM mattress under which they place the currency? No. Society would be lost without banks - fact. Our pensions rely on the investments made by banks. It's not gambling. If someone said to you, listen, Varche, lend me EUR 10,000 to set up a new vineyard and I'll give you a 20% p.a. return on your capital, would you dismiss it out of hand - not because it may seem an risky investment, but because you do see it as gambling?

Well done to those who point out the political interference at the heart the US junk-mortgage crisis that started all this off, along with the dodgy Wall Street algorithms (based on the Gaussian copula formula) and, of course, the obscene levels of public expenditure seen throughout the western world, but especially in the the EU, and even more particularly amongst the PIIGS. I know it's much easier to blame banker bonuses, but it's an intellectual cop-out, IMHO.    

[OOMV6]

And how did we arrive at the situation whereby all those yanks had mortages they couldnt afford to pay ?
Because politicians pressurised lenders into lending them the money,in an ill advised social engineering policy.

lets face it Albs it isn't Honest work. Never will be. Honest work is a guy making a piece of china and selling it for his labour plus a margin. Or building a car and selling it for a bit more than the development costs, materials and labour etc. Gambling, and make no mistake that is all it is with someone elses money isn't doing an honest days work. I however still stand behind my statement that the Uk needs to quadruple its Banking/Hedge fund/gambling activities and derive a good tax stream from it. We are good at it. It isn't going to get a good tax stream from a smaller public sector or manufacturing or folk on the dole/benefits.

I don't doubt it is a pressured environment (so is going to Las Vegas with the family fortune and betting it all on red on the last day ).

If the politicians interfered would there still have been bad loans? Yes. Just look at Spain. That was due to a Central banking edict to keep loan %'s low.  You could argue that was down to Brussels but at the end of the day the banks do have a responsibility.

like I said before, when things go well they pay themselves tremendous bonuses. when they go badly they still pay themselves tremendous bonuses. Poor things. No one makes them do this "work".

Sorry, Varche, but that really is a rather ridiculous view of the financial world, IMHO. You mention car production as an example. Where do you think the car companies get the money to build factories? Where do they find the facilities to pay their suppliers? Is there a giant GM mattress under which they place the currency? No. Society would be lost without banks - fact. Our pensions rely on the investments made by banks. It's not gambling. If someone said to you, listen, Varche, lend me EUR 10,000 to set up a new vineyard and I'll give you a 20% p.a. return on your capital, would you dismiss it out of hand - not because it may seem an risky investment, but because you do see it as gambling?

Well done to those who point out the political interference at the heart the US junk-mortgage crisis that started all this off, along with the dodgy Wall Street algorithms (based on the Gaussian copula formula) and, of course, the obscene levels of public expenditure seen throughout the western world, but especially in the the EU, and even more particularly amongst the PIIGS. I know it's much easier to blame banker bonuses, but it's an intellectual cop-out, IMHO.    

+1 

[Dishevelled Den]

Think this is it, but cannot view it in Germany. Should be a couple of sticks selling some stinky mortgages. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJH2CcpXztE

Coming up here blocked as well V6.

http://wn.com/Subprime_Mortgage_Crisis_EXPLAINED!

Video number 6 was the one I was thinking of

Well done V6 - I've had a look at the first offering on the list and it went some way to getting a measure of understanding past my thick skull - I'll have a look at the remainder later on when things ease off a bit; as a matter of fact it appears to be quite interesting so I'm rather looking forward to learning more.

[OOMV6]

Think this is it, but cannot view it in Germany. Should be a couple of sticks selling some stinky mortgages. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJH2CcpXztE

Coming up here blocked as well V6.

http://wn.com/Subprime_Mortgage_Crisis_EXPLAINED!

Video number 6 was the one I was thinking of

Well done V6 - I've had a look at the first offering on the list and it went some way to getting a measure of understanding past my thick skull - I'll have a look at the remainder later on when things ease off a bit; as a matter of fact it appears to be quite interesting so I'm rather looking forward to learning more.

Video SIX is the one. A comical, but true(ish) view on things

[Dishevelled Den]

And how did we arrive at the situation whereby all those yanks had mortages they couldnt afford to pay ?
Because politicians pressurised lenders into lending them the money,in an ill advised social engineering policy.

lets face it Albs it isn't Honest work. Never will be. Honest work is a guy making a piece of china and selling it for his labour plus a margin. Or building a car and selling it for a bit more than the development costs, materials and labour etc. Gambling, and make no mistake that is all it is with someone elses money isn't doing an honest days work. I however still stand behind my statement that the Uk needs to quadruple its Banking/Hedge fund/gambling activities and derive a good tax stream from it. We are good at it. It isn't going to get a good tax stream from a smaller public sector or manufacturing or folk on the dole/benefits.

I don't doubt it is a pressured environment (so is going to Las Vegas with the family fortune and betting it all on red on the last day ).

If the politicians interfered would there still have been bad loans? Yes. Just look at Spain. That was due to a Central banking edict to keep loan %'s low.  You could argue that was down to Brussels but at the end of the day the banks do have a responsibility.

like I said before, when things go well they pay themselves tremendous bonuses. when they go badly they still pay themselves tremendous bonuses. Poor things. No one makes them do this "work".

Sorry, Varche, but that really is a rather ridiculous view of the financial world, IMHO. You mention car production as an example. Where do you think the car companies get the money to build factories? Where do they find the facilities to pay their suppliers? Is there a giant GM mattress under which they place the currency? No. Society would be lost without banks - fact. Our pensions rely on the investments made by banks. It's not gambling. If someone said to you, listen, Varche, lend me EUR 10,000 to set up a new vineyard and I'll give you a 20% p.a. return on your capital, would you dismiss it out of hand - not because it may seem an risky investment, but because you do see it as gambling?

Well done to those who point out the political interference at the heart the US junk-mortgage crisis that started all this off, along with the dodgy Wall Street algorithms (based on the Gaussian copula formula) and, of course, the obscene levels of public expenditure seen throughout the western world, but especially in the the EU, and even more particularly amongst the PIIGS. I know it's much easier to blame banker bonuses, but it's an intellectual cop-out, IMHO.

Actually as I try to look at this objectively Nick I'm coming to the conclusion that to single out the bonuses/pay level or personalities within the banking system deflects attention away from what I see to be a systemic failure of the entire financial system brought about by people and institutions prepared to do most anything to turn a profit or make a buck.

Amid the leviathan of technological aids and instant communication now available to those in the financial world, the rather more prosaic inclination towards the human condition has perhaps been more instrumental in starting the conflagration, and subsequently adding fuel to the fire, by motivating people to do what a lot of them (understandably) are inclined to do best - make the most of a bad situation by looking after themselves irrespective of the consequences.

Perhaps it's not computer systems, institutional bodies or any other form of systemic apparatus that made that this whole situation ruin out of control - but merely people who choose not to think holistically because many simply cannot do so.

[cem_devecioglu]

 
 
ow yes.. as said "blame it on the hardware"