Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: omega3000 on 09 July 2012, 15:17:34
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Stoner falls off at the last corner , what was the point in binning it against your team mate ::) DNF either ::) Rossi seems to be going backwards as well , maybe some trickery going on with them honda's ;)
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The Hondas just keep getting quicker and quicker. There have been rumours of them not being scrutinised as closely as the others,(talk of a highly illegal twin clutch system etc) a bit like Ferrari in F1,but who knows. Although they kind of are the equivalent of Ferrari in MotoGP. Stoner loves winning I think, from a championship point of view he should have taken a safe second (Pedrosa wont win a championship as long as he has a hole in his arris),but its not in Stoners nature to finish second if theres a chance of a win. Got to respect him for that,its the way it should be imo.Racers should race.
Rossi - if he hasnt done a deal to ride a Honda next season he may be better off retiring. If he does stick with the Ducati and ends up turning it into a winner it will increase the legend without doubt,but it will also be nothing short of a miracle.
Ducati seem completely incapable of building a competitive bike for the current formula.I also think Rossi isnt prepared to ride it at 10/10ths just to try to scratch home in 5th or 6th.Hes too long in the tooth for that.
The fantasy for next year would be for Stoner to change his mind,and Rossi to be his team mate. All the arguments would be settled then. Cant see it happening though.Its even possible that Stoner is jumping ship because hes had a whisper that Rossi is going back to Honda next year.
On a different note,its a shame,but MotoGP seems to be in serious decline.If they hadnt allowed all those tuned Fireblades to become illegible to make up the numbers,there would only be 10 bikes on the track for the races. Most of the racing is pretty dull as well.Partly due to the electronics etc. on the bikes and partly due to the fact that most of the time theres really only two top flight riders on competitive bikes (Stoner & Lorenzo). WSB is in terminal decline imo,its a shadow of what it once was.MtotGP retirees go there and wipe the floor with all the bright young "talent".
The only really healthy class of top flight racing these days seems to be BSB.
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The Hondas just keep getting quicker and quicker. There have been rumours of them not being scrutinised as closely as the others,(talk of a highly illegal twin clutch system etc) a bit like Ferrari in F1,but who knows. Although they kind of are the equivalent of Ferrari in MotoGP. Stoner loves winning I think, from a championship point of view he should have taken a safe second (Pedrosa wont win a championship as long as he has a hole in his arris),but its not in Stoners nature to finish second if theres a chance of a win. Got to respect him for that,its the way it should be imo.Racers should race.
Rossi - if he hasnt done a deal to ride a Honda next season he may be better off retiring. If he does stick with the Ducati and ends up turning it into a winner it will increase the legend without doubt,but it will also be nothing short of a miracle.
Ducati seem completely incapable of building a competitive bike for the current formula.I also think Rossi isnt prepared to ride it at 10/10ths just to try to scratch home in 5th or 6th.Hes too long in the tooth for that.
The fantasy for next year would be for Stoner to change his mind,and Rossi to be his team mate. All the arguments would be settled then. Cant see it happening though.Its even possible that Stoner is jumping ship because hes had a whisper that Rossi is going back to Honda next year.
On a different note,its a shame,but MotoGP seems to be in serious decline.If they hadnt allowed all those tuned Fireblades to become illegible to make up the numbers,there would only be 10 bikes on the track for the races. Most of the racing is pretty dull as well.Partly due to the electronics etc. on the bikes and partly due to the fact that most of the time theres really only two top flight riders on competitive bikes (Stoner & Lorenzo). WSB is in terminal decline imo,its a shadow of what it once was.MtotGP retirees go there and wipe the floor with all the bright young "talent".
The only really healthy class of top flight racing these days seems to be BSB.
Good point there , would be good to see rossi back on the honda :y
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He swore he would never ride forthem again,but when their bike is 1.5 seconds a lap quicker than the old dog hes wobbling around on........ ::)
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Amazes me how fast they go in the wet , like you said stoner is competitive and wants to prove a point it seems before he retires . The way those honda's pulled away does make you wonder what they have done to make them that fast but no mention of it from the commentators :-\
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Stoner falls off at the last corner , what was the point in binning it against your team mate ::) DNF either ::) Rossi seems to be going backwards as well , maybe some trickery going on with them honda's ;)
Not the first top rider to fall at that corner.
Did you see Stoners crash at the right handed at the top of the hill a few years ago when he was on a Ducati? Lordy!
Stoner is incredibly talented. I can't remember another rider so aggressive and apparently uncotrolling in their approach. He really doesn't give a fu@k. Which I love. No manipulation or telling people what they want to hear.
Given his retirement next year, there's even less reason to play the team card.
Cal is said to be go going to Ducati next year. That's the end of him then, unless Rossi fixes it before hand.
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Some stuff on the gear box. Can't see why they wouldn't have developed it since.
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1303978609
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Stoner falls off at the last corner , what was the point in binning it against your team mate ::) DNF either ::) Rossi seems to be going backwards as well , maybe some trickery going on with them honda's ;)
Not the first top rider to fall at that corner.
Did you see Stoners crash at the right handed at the top of the hill a few years ago when he was on a Ducati? Lordy!
Stoner is incredibly talented. I can't remember another rider so aggressive and apparently uncotrolling in their approach. He really doesn't give a fu@k. Which I love. No manipulation or telling people what they want to hear.
Given his retirement next year, there's even less reason to play the team card.
Cal is said to be go going to Ducati next year. That's the end of him then, unless Rossi fixes it before hand.
;D
I'd like a shot on that ducati myself ... :P
Last time they were at donnington i was at the trackside and the noise of that ducati going down the start finish line is LOUD :o
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Stoner falls off at the last corner , what was the point in binning it against your team mate ::) DNF either ::) Rossi seems to be going backwards as well , maybe some trickery going on with them honda's ;)
Not the first top rider to fall at that corner.
Did you see Stoners crash at the right handed at the top of the hill a few years ago when he was on a Ducati? Lordy!
Stoner is incredibly talented. I can't remember another rider so aggressive and apparently uncotrolling in their approach. He really doesn't give a fu@k. Which I love. No manipulation or telling people what they want to hear.
Given his retirement next year, there's even less reason to play the team card.
Cal is said to be go going to Ducati next year. That's the end of him then, unless Rossi fixes it before hand.
;D
I'd like a shot on that ducati myself ... :P
Last time they were at donnington i was at the trackside and the noise of that ducati going down the start finish line is LOUD :o
I'd fight you for it first ;D
But if you want to win a Gp race, put Stoner on it, or ride sumat else.
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Stoner falls off at the last corner , what was the point in binning it against your team mate ::) DNF either ::) Rossi seems to be going backwards as well , maybe some trickery going on with them honda's ;)
Not the first top rider to fall at that corner.
Did you see Stoners crash at the right handed at the top of the hill a few years ago when he was on a Ducati? Lordy!
Stoner is incredibly talented. I can't remember another rider so aggressive and apparently uncotrolling in their approach. He really doesn't give a fu@k. Which I love. No manipulation or telling people what they want to hear.
Given his retirement next year, there's even less reason to play the team card.
Cal is said to be go going to Ducati next year. That's the end of him then, unless Rossi fixes it before hand.
;D
I'd like a shot on that ducati myself ... :P
Last time they were at donnington i was at the trackside and the noise of that ducati going down the start finish line is LOUD :o
I'd fight you for it first ;D
But if you want to win a Gp race, put Stoner on it, or ride sumat else.
Just warming it up for ME :P :y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFPqR0Y4LBw&feature=related
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I dont think any rider past or present could win on the current Ducati.Its an absolute dog. Presumably fundamentally flawed in basic design. Jeremy Burgess has re engineered every bike and team has has worked at,including all of Doohans 5 championships at Honda and all of Rossis championships at Honda and Yamaha. He said he could sort the Ducati in half an hour - just before he went to work for them. I bet he wishes he could erase that little comment from the history books. ::)
When he and Rossi went to Yamaha,iirc the team had one podium (a 3rd place?) the previous season. He got to work on the team and the setup of the bike with Rossi and Rossi won the Championship at the first attempt.Honda said (when Rossi went to Yamaha) that they would flood the grid with bikes and destroy him. They did just that and he destroyed them.Im sure they both thought they would do the same again at Ducati,but as we have seen..........
Its possible that Rossi,s best years are behind him and he has lost his edge,but Im far from convinced. Someone with a previously unheard of level of natural talent doesnt suddenly become slow.
If he still has the self belief he might be best to admit defeat with the Ducati project and offer to ride the Honda for peanuts,just to prove the point to himself and all the doubters. At least all the questions would be answered then one way or the other for all concerned.
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I dont think any rider past or present could win on the current Ducati.Its an absolute dog. Presumably fundamentally flawed in basic design. Jeremy Burgess has re engineered every bike and team has has worked at,including all of Doohans 5 championships at Honda and all of Rossis championships at Honda and Yamaha. He said he could sort the Ducati in half an hour - just before he went to work for them. I bet he wishes he could erase that little comment from the history books. ::)
When he and Rossi went to Yamaha,iirc the team had one podium (a 3rd place?) the previous season. He got to work on the team and the setup of the bike with Rossi and Rossi won the Championship at the first attempt.Honda said (when Rossi went to Yamaha) that they would flood the grid with bikes and destroy him. They did just that and he destroyed them.Im sure they both thought they would do the same again at Ducati,but as we have seen..........
Its possible that Rossi,s best years are behind him and he has lost his edge,but Im far from convinced. Someone with a previously unheard of level of natural talent doesnt suddenly become slow.
If he still has the self belief he might be best to admit defeat with the Ducati project and offer to ride the Honda for peanuts,just to prove the point to himself and all the doubters. At least all the questions would be answered then one way or the other for all concerned.
+ 1 :y I dont think he has lost his edge, probably took the ducati as far as he can although seems to do better in the rain on it ??? Give it a dry track and it goes backwards .
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Will be interesting to see if Crutchlow can do anything on it,although next years bike will be a completely different machine,so not directly comparable. I like Crutchlows determined style,but have some doubt that he is going to be the next Bitish world champion tbh. He often seems to struggle to keep up with his team mate (particularily yesterday) who isnt exactly the next big thing. Time will tell I suppose. A sign of hard times outside of the works teams is the fact that an upgrade for the brakes was available to the Tech3 team from early in the season but the team insisted the riders had to pay for them out of their own pocket. :o
Crutchlow refused on principle (who could blame him) but his team mate paid for them for his own bike and then Cal couldnt stay with him under braking,so gave in and did the same.
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Will be interesting to see if Crutchlow can do anything on it,although next years bike will be a completely different machine,so not directly comparable. I like Crutchlows determined style,but have some doubt that he is going to be the next Bitish world champion tbh. He often seems to struggle to keep up with his team mate (particularily yesterday) who isnt exactly the next big thing. Time will tell I suppose. A sign of hard times outside of the works teams is the fact that an upgrade for the brakes was available to the Tech3 team from early in the season but the team insisted the riders had to pay for them out of their own pocket. :o
Crutchlow refused on principle (who could blame him) but his team mate paid for them for his own bike and then Cal couldnt stay with him under braking,so gave in and did the same.
The commentators didnt pick up on it but im sure i seen crutchlows foot come off the peg and hit the floor when they stick the leg out for balance , thats the point he dropped back but must have stung like hell if on his gammy leg . Looking forward to the next race , i think stoner will be out to prove a point after falling off . Pity he has no competition like the old days with rossi to make it more interesting :y
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Lorenzo is more than capable of competing with him if the Yamaha is on form.Honda seem to have made another leap forward recently though. ;)
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Just been looking at what stoner was saying about the fall...
"I knew I wasn’t going to be able to pass at the bottom of the hill so I just wanted to turn the bike in underneath and get a good run up to the last corner and that’s where I was confident I could make a pass.
"But as soon as I went to turn the bike in a bit harder the front just went away from me and it was game over.”
Stoner said his bike only suffered minor damage and that had he been given help by marshals he could have re-joined the race and salvaged some points.
He added: “It is disappointing but for me the marshals were the most disappointing. I’ve seen them pick up loads of different bikes and get them going but there was nothing wrong with my bike and there was no way they were going to help me.”
Oh dear :(
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Maybe I read it wrong, but it looked to me like Cal was very good at running in on the brakes, to the point he was almost running into the back of factory riders, and his team mate ESP.
Seems to me, he should be on Spies bike. But I guess Bolotics won't allow that >:(
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Just been looking at what stoner was saying about the fall...
"I knew I wasn’t going to be able to pass at the bottom of the hill so I just wanted to turn the bike in underneath and get a good run up to the last corner and that’s where I was confident I could make a pass.
"But as soon as I went to turn the bike in a bit harder the front just went away from me and it was game over.”
Stoner said his bike only suffered minor damage and that had he been given help by marshals he could have re-joined the race and salvaged some points.
He added: “It is disappointing but for me the marshals were the most disappointing. I’ve seen them pick up loads of different bikes and get them going but there was nothing wrong with my bike and there was no way they were going to help me.”
[/highlight]Oh dear :(
See for me he,s like a Mansell on two wheels.Awesome to watch when hes got his helmet on doing his job. you can the aggression and commitment coming out of your tv screen. But when he takes his helmet off and starts talking......oh dear,a huge persecution complex and a complete absence of class as a person.
Most others would just say " I wanted the win,asked the tyres for a bit more grip than they had left,end of". ::)
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Or "i binned it, its a fair cop" ;D
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Casey Moaner has complained on this marshall issue before as they always rush to help Rossi and ignore him. Now I wonder why? Couldn't be anything to do that they are both outstanding racers, but one is a real character and legend and the other has had a lobotomy. ::) ::) ::)
Ducati seems to be getting gradually more competitive. Cal Crutchlow is having a good season. It will be interesting to see what happens as Bradley Smith is joining the Tech 3 MotoGP team next season (or will it be delayed another season as he is not exactly setting the world alight in Moto2). Ben Spies has been very disappointing this season.
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Hardly. Although he is an Australian. His comments on adapting to the Ducati, rather than Ducati making an entire bike to suit a rider (Rossi) are bang on. Something Rossi is clearly not able to do.
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No they arent and he knows it.The world and his uncle know the bike is a complete bag of shite. His comments were designed very specifically to needle Rossi & Ducati. He plays paddock politics,but hes quite crude about it due to a distinct lack of grey matter. ;)
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Utter Rubbish ;D
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Any rider in any class from club racing up to MotoGP who changes to a different bike will spend as much time as they can changing and adapting the bike to suit their own style and preferences as much as the design and the regulations allow.It really is that simple and Stoner knows it.
As for Rossis lack of adaptabilty - he took a season to learn 125,s then won the world championship in his second year..He then took a season to learn 250,s then won the world championship in his second year. He then moved up to the big class (500 2 strokes at that time),he won races and came second in the championship in his first year and won the championship in the second.
They then changed to 990 four strokes,he won the championship, changed again to 800,he won the championship.Moved to Yamaha (who couldnt win a race for love nor money) and won the championship straight away.
Bike racing has never seen the like of him up until he joined Ducati.It is the only blot on his copybook.I hope he jumps ship back to Honda next year and then we will see if he still has it or not. I suspect he would wipe the floor with all of them again,Stoner included. Stoner left Ducati at just the right time,and Rossi joined at them at just the wrong time.
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....and throughout the brilliant carear has been able to thump the desk to get everything changed to suit his own worshipfull self, while pronouncing himself to be the "The Doctor" what rubbish. Undeniable talent of course. Nobody gets to that level wothout talent, and that includes Stoner if he's liked or not. Bolotics however merely proves to dishonest and poisenous input of an individual. It's a refreshing change to see a rider speak his mind without insulting has audience with a load BSotics.
Quite happy to concede he goes too far with his tantrums at slower riders in qulifying etc. but so what?
All things being equal though Hayden should be more than 7 points behind in the championship, if Rossi is so brilliant currently.
And of course, do we really need to see it written down that the entire motorcycling world would love to see both riders in the same team on the same bike? Seems we are very stupid on here to some. ;)
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I said in an earlier post that imo Rossi probably isnt riding the thing at 10/10ths at the moment,as he probably isnt prepared to put his arse on the line for a 6th place or whatever,hes too long in the tooth for that maybe ?
The rest of it - I would need it translated in to comprehensible English tbh. ::)
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Ah the AndyBedantic school of typing. I'm stuck with gay iPad that makes It up for you I'm afraid. Still, gives the chance to opt out of a losing, Rossi style, position I suppose. ;)
There does seem to be an oddity here though. I mean your quite happy to pronounce quotes as gospel from the like of Senna and that old has been, what was his name, Jill something ;) as Lording the purest form of racing. No money, no polotics, just racing where possible.
Yet here we are with a rider already stated as to be respected for having a go such as Stoner, couldn't care less for anyone's opinion and just chases the edge continually and unreservedly. Yet what he says off track is somehow more important.
Why is that? Who cares what he says, ESP when "we" are so keen to encourage racing of the purest form. I get the impression the pre race chat is more important to some than the race itself? The scheming and manoeuvring in the padock, the back stabbing and biting behind the scenes.
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I have a lot of respect for Stoners talent and desire to win on the track. I just happen to believe that great though he is,he isnt and never will be on Rossi,s level. I have wartched bike racing at all levels since the mid 70,s and I have no doubt whatsoever that Rossi is by far the greatest short circuit racer there has ever been,he is the 2 wheel equivelant of Senna and perhaps Stoner is the two wheeled Mansell - great but not quite on the same level as the greatest.
Off the bike,Rossi is a clever showman/businessman. He has built up and sold "brand Rossi" to a global audience.Not the way I would cunduct my life in his position but I cant blame him e for doing it.Particularily when he does it with the typical Itialian style and flair he utilises.
Off the bike Stoner (like Mansell) is a whinger,is never wrong,always looking for someone to blame. Honest ? hes not even honest with himself. I dont really care about any of that crap tbh, I simply believe that hes a great rider but he isnt on Rossi,s level,end of.
Im not a Rossi fan because of his statistics either.My favourite riders of the last 15 years are Haga,Walker and Gary McCoy,who dont have a title between them. Similarily My all time favourite Ferrari driver is Villenueve,whose statistics show a few wins and no titles,but my least favourite Ferrari driver (and driver of any description) is Scumacher who I detest, and who happens to be statistically the most succesful driver of all time.
The bottom line is we are all entitled to our opinion.The only possible way the Rossi/Stoner debate could be settled is for them both to be riding the same bike,and it looks like that will never happen now that Stoner is retiring.
I happen to have some sympathy with Stoners reasoning (if its genuine). MotoGp (and bike racing in general) is in decline and the next set of rules will probably make things worse rather than better.Globally the biking frenzy of the last 15 years has tailed off and its returning to being a minority interest. Maybe moreso here in Britland where all the blokes who bought into Fogarty (and then Hodgson) mania and went out and bought a Fireblade or whatever have now moved onto playing Golf (if they didnt wipe themselves out in the meantime). They were the types who invaded the track at Silverstone when Mansell won,not realising that there were 20 other cars still racing at 200mph, who waived union jacks at Brands every time Foggy appeared on the track.One of them actually said to me "If this young Rossi kid is so good,why doesnt he step up to WSB and race against Foggy ?". ::)
Now,theyve found a new hero in Rory McIlroy,and found out in the process that its possible for someone from some part of Ireland to be a Brit. ;D
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My favorite was randy mamola , not everyones cup of tea but at least he could have a joke and a laugh :y Had the pleasure of shaking hands with rossi yrs ago , very nice bloke :y
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My favorite was randy mamola , not everyones cup of tea but at least he could have a joke and a laugh :y Had the pleasure of shaking hands with rossi yrs ago , very nice bloke :y
Randy was great too. As where Doohan, Kocinski, Biaggi, etc. even Edwards managed to get booed at Brands in Wsb. Such a fickle audience us bikers.
Most bikers would be great to have a pint with. Except that wingeing polotician Albs perhaps. ;D ;)
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My favorite was randy mamola , not everyones cup of tea but at least he could have a joke and a laugh :y Had the pleasure of shaking hands with rossi yrs ago , very nice bloke :y
Randy was great too. As where Doohan, Kocinski, Biaggi, etc. even Edwards managed to get booed at Brands in Wsb. Such a fickle audience us bikers.
Most bikers would be great to have a pint with. Except that whinging Aussie Stoner and those dreamers who think he is a god perhaps. ;D ;)
Yep. :y ;D
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My favorite was randy mamola , not everyones cup of tea but at least he could have a joke and a laugh :y Had the pleasure of shaking hands with rossi yrs ago , very nice bloke :y
Randy was great too. As where Doohan, Kocinski, Biaggi, etc. even Edwards managed to get booed at Brands in Wsb. Such a fickle audience us bikers.
Most bikers would be great to have a pint with. Except that whinging Aussie Stoner and those dreamers who think Rossi is a god perhaps. ;D ;)
Yep.
::)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWvZ5UBJ8XU
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWvZ5UBJ8XU
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Yep, no need, but the guy was knobing about on the racing line. ;D
Maybe give them all a bat each. I'd pay to see that. ;D