Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: cleggy on 11 December 2012, 14:30:21
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Since Winston Churchill left office in 1955 who in your opinion is the worst ever Prime Minister and the best?
Best:- Margaret Thatcher 1979 -1990
Worst:- Gordon 'The One eyed Scottish Idiot' Brown 2007 - 2010
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Best..............My avatar
Worst............Anthony Eden
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Best..............My avatar
Worst............Anthony Eden
Agreed, 100%!
The poor chap was very ill, but what he attempted to do with Suez in 1956 was mad! ::) ::) ::)
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Best..............My avatar
Worst............Anthony Eden
Oh deer i thought that you picture mr opti :-[
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Best - begrudgingly I have to say Thatcher.
Worst.Without doubt Blair.He did so much damage in so many ways to this country,that the damage will never be repaired.He (along with Mcruin in the treasury) set us on the path we are now on,and just starting to reap the crop he sowed.
McRuin was without doubt the worst Chancellor in modern times,but he wasnt PM long enough to qualify for that title.
My choice for second worst would be Heath.He was a traitor and should have been exposed as such at the time.
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Best - begrudgingly I have to say Thatcher.
Worst.Without doubt Blair.He did so much damage in so many ways to this country,that the damage will never be repaired.He (along with Mcruin in the treasury) set us on the path we are now on,and just starting to reap the crop he sowed.
McRuin was without doubt the worst Chancellor in modern times,but he wasnt PM long enough to qualify for that title.
My choice for second worst would be Heath.He was a traitor and should have been exposed as such at the time.
Pretty much agree with all of that,we could do with another Maggie T now :-\
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The country needs someone of that ilk - desperately. :y
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Best:- Margaret Thatcher
Worst:- Toss up between Blair or Gordon Brown (both tossers)
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As a person I liked John Major. Hated bliar
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As a person I liked John Major. Hated bliar
So did Edwina ::) ;D ;D
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Best: Margret Thatcher. I don't agree with everything she did, but she got more right than wrong.
Worst: Spoilt for choice here as they have all got more wrong than right, where we have been dreadfully ruled for all of the 20th and 21st centuries, which is why the country is only a shadow of its former self. I'm only taking prime ministers within my living memory.
1=. It must be McRuin Gordon Brown, very, very closely followed by BLiar Tony Blair: For not giving us a referendum on the Lisbon treaty, creating an unsustainable socialist client state, PC correctness and the ending of free speech through that dreadful Harman, mass migration, no runway expansion at London's airports, the war on motorists, bus lanes, M4 Vil lane, politicizing the civil service, doubling council tax, introducing flight and insurance taxes and 64 other new taxes, tax on job mobility through property stamp duty, business rates and social legislation to accelerate the decline of manufacturing, climate change and signing the damaging treaties and committing us to mass useless windmills, while ducking the issue of nuclear expansion, bank deregulation and bankrupting the country, to name but a small few of the measures they introduced that has so damaged the country, probably terminally in that they have put us on the road to our first sovereign default since 1600. Labour at the end of three terms have always run out of other peoples money.
3. Next it must be traitor and alleged kiddy fiddler Heath. For lying on his motives for taking us into the EEC (Google and read FCO 30/1048), giving in to the trade unions, 3 days week, money printing until inflation was out of control.
4. Then it is Wilson for allowing the consolidation of the left wing in the Labour party and unchecked union militancy, cancelling TSR2, nationalizing the aerospace and ship building industries so we are now only a bit part player in both.
5. This is closely followed by John Major for taking us into the ERM and the permanent damage he did to the economy, for pushing through the Maastricht treaty, despite much opposition, getting the Climate change bandwagon rolling with his fuel escalator and where he started the current expansion of public services, that McRuin zealously grew even more to get us where we are now.
6. Dithering Dave, for his abdication on saving the UK's economy, going back on his promise on a referendum on the Lisbon treaty, by concentrating on the irrelevant gay marriage, Lords reform, climate change windmills, not suspending Overseas Aid, so we would have borrowing £50bn less at the end of this parliament. Not rebalancing the economy through public services and tax cuts and putting the UK in the position that by 2015 there will probably be no way back from a sovereign default. For ignoring the Jeeves economists on this while Camoron, Clegg and Osborne act like three Woosters, or the three wise monkeys, see no crisis, hear no crisis, and speak no crisis. Schoolboys playing at being politicians.
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worst,single most destructive influence on my personal finances at the most vulnerable time of my life as a teenager, Thatcher. no doubt about it.
best, from a personal finance point of view, Blair
worst, from a state of the country point of view, Wilson, but im too young to comment there really. :)
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When we look back in the future , it will actually be Cameron for not getting Britain out of the mess it is in. He will be remembered as the PM that led us into bailouts and thus into the Euro.
Of the rest definitely McRuin. Blair actually did a good job of not letting him become PM for as long as he did. :y
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worst by far by a huuuuge margin, bliar.the biggest waste of space in the whole of the known universe and a war criminal to boot.complete c+++
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Completely agree,but I could see howw someone could be under the impression that they did well under him.His premiership coincided with a global boom in the financial sector which was particularily impressive (at the time) in the UK due to the square mile being such an important financial centre.This boom of course spread throughout the wider economy.We also had a huge (mostly false ) boom in house prices,due in part to the general economic climate,but due in the most part to an enormous influx of immigrants which created a housing shortage and therefore the rules of supply & demand kicked in.
The income from the economic boom was squandered in a criminal fashion during the Bliar years.This country should have had so much money tucked away at the end of it that we hardly noticed the global downturn.Instead we were up to our necks in unprecedented amounts of debt,and in a lot worse shape than almost every major economy in the world.The only two factors we had in our favour were that McRuin kept us out of the Euro - purely becuase Blair desperately wanted us to join,and the square mile has had enough of a recovery to so far prevent our economy from becoming a complete basket case.
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Lets be honest.....they are all crap!!!!!! :y
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....and only judged by the outside influences that happen along in their rain. a total lottery, and makes the whole idea that polotics involves any amount of skill, genious, other than how slippery ones teflon suite is.
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....and only judged by the outside influences that happen along in their rain. a total lottery, and makes the whole idea that polotics involves any amount of skill, genious, other than how slippery ones teflon suite is.
Cant argue with this Chris.
Which is probably why most people would (IMO correctly) suggest Thatcher as the best. Through some of the most diabolical times in the modern history of the UK, she stood her ground and led like a leader should. Didn't back down unnecessarily like some of the later lot.
Could we possibly imagine how much worse things would have been if Maggie didn't overpower the might of the Unions at a time where Industry had (pretty much) already come to a stand-still?
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Best..................Maggie. :y
Worst................Virtually the rest of them.
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....and only judged by the outside influences that happen along in their rain. a total lottery, and makes the whole idea that polotics involves any amount of skill, genious, other than how slippery ones teflon suite is.
Cant argue with this Chris.
Which is probably why most people would (IMO correctly) suggest Thatcher as the best. Through some of the most diabolical times in the modern history of the UK, she stood her ground and led like a leader should. Didn't back down unnecessarily like some of the later lot.
Could we possibly imagine how much worse things would have been if Maggie didn't overpower the might of the Unions at a time where Industry had (pretty much) already come to a stand-still?
i dont claim to know anything about such a devicive subject as polotics, i can only draw on personal experience. Unions took the piss, and thats just opened the door for ... no. not playing.
as sassanach and terbert sugest, they are all tuesdays imo.
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Best:- Margaret Thatcher 1979 -1990
Worst:- Gordon 'The One eyed Scottish Idiot' Brown 2007 - 2010
you couldn't get any more right there.
Mrs T - the ultimate " take no sh*t leader "
Gordon " I bankrupted the UK " Brown
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Best:- Margaret Thatcher 1979 -1990
Worst:- Gordon 'The One eyed Scottish Idiot' Brown 2007 - 2010
you couldn't get any more right there.
Mrs T - the ultimate " take no sh*t leader "
Gordon " I bankrupted the UK " Brown
lived off kicking the Argies butts imo.
you hava a pm btw. :)
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lived off kicking the Argies butts imo.
them and the unions - there's nothing wrong with either
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lived off kicking the Argies butts imo.
them and the unions - there's nothing wrong with either
didnt say there was, poll and couincil tax though... and the handling of its introduction nearly saw me homeless at the time.
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They're all a bunch of useless tossers!!!!! Should have voted Jeremy Clarkson in last time!! :y
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They're all a bunch of useless tossers!!!!! Should have voted Jeremy Clarkson in last time!! :y
;D yes he gets my vote, the big eejit ;D
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lived off kicking the Argies butts imo.
them and the unions - there's nothing wrong with either
And closed all the Coal mines, the fuel of the future, only we are losing the skills to extract it...... :-X :-X :-X
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I think that highly intellectual,tactical genius Scargill might also deserve quite a bit of blame for that one Vamps. ;)
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I think that highly intellectual,tactical genius Scargill might also deserve quite a bit of blame for that one Vamps. ;)
For himself >:( >:(
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It was tongue in cheek Cleggy.The man was an idiot.He could have won and brought her career to a crashing stop but he was too stubborn and thick to realise it.
He was arguably the best weapon the Tories had in the late 20th century. ;)
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But the result is the same.....? I do not do political arguments, just see it as it is............. :-X
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Best: Thatcher for being the only one that I've been aware of who has actually lived up to the position.
Worst: Easily Blair >:( cant that he is :-X As for gb,useless tit that he was, he wasn't pm long enough to actually screw anything up, thank god. However he does deserve boiling in a pot of warm, mild acid along with Bliar for his efforts as chancellor :-X
Unions are a different issues all together...
Thinking about it, (to paraphrase), "We're going to need a bigger pot..."
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It was tongue in cheek Cleggy.The man was an idiot.He could have won and brought her career to a crashing stop but he was too stubborn and thick to realise it.
He was arguably the best weapon the Tories had in the late 20th century. ;)
I realised that, however he was a bit brighter than the union members who lost jobs after struggling for 18 months. Communties were destroyed, local economies left in ruins and are still desperate places for him to end up a weathly man with a very comfortable life. :( :(
1984/5 were a sad time for this country for what :( :(
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Agreed,but the miners culturally were fiercely loyal to their union and I couldnt help but admire that loyalty.He abused that loyalty in the most cynical dishounorable way possible for his own ends.
Ironically he could have won if his enormous ego hadnt got in the way.Polling organisations were polling the miners how they would vote in a ballot all the way through the strike and quite early on the polls said he would win a clear victory if he had a ballot.He refused point blank and that was the big stick that Maggie and the press beat him with unitl the humiliating defeat.
Im sure she was shitting bricks at the point where it was sensible for him to have a ballot,as a yes vote would have brought her government done,but luckily for her his stupidity and ego saved her skin.
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Some good men were broken in that strike.
We used to visit a miner friend and his family every three months for a Sunday lunch in Rotherham, and they would not accept any help only from their immediate families and what the strike fund paid them. The only way for me was to give his wife all my luncheon vouchers that I saved for them because Tesco accepted them for groceries. We were a group of three families who were friends who got together once a month at each others houses with two of us from Nottingham. Went for a lunch time pint in Rotherham and these miners came over and said, " You from Nottingham" in no uncertain terms. It was only when they knew I was originally from Huddersfield and the other guy from Manchester originally than they settled down, that and the fact we were with a militant picket. :y :y
Scargill used those men for his own ends >:( >:(
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lived off kicking the Argies butts imo.
them and the unions - there's nothing wrong with either
didnt say there was, poll and couincil tax though... and the handling of its introduction nearly saw me homeless at the time.
I remember that time quite well. I attended a broken down car at the local council offices. It was one of the workers there. Whilst fixing the car we talked about the poll tax. This person told me that poll tax was fine, the problem was how councils initiated it. She said rather than transfer the staff collecting the rates on to collecting poll tax the councils took on loads more staff to handel the poll tax and this act alone doubled the cost of poll tax. And of course they never got rid of the rates staff.
This was confirmed to me a little later when my friends wife got a job in the council. So I always blame local council for the poll tax fiasco, not the government. Especially as my elderly grandmother got an 80% discount on the poll tax, for no other reason than being old and retired.
I wonder how many pensioners today would like an 80% discount on there council tax.
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Worst by far, Blair....a total an utter idiot running up debt in prosperous times which we may never see recovered in our life times. I actualy pity the poor sods trying to clear the mess up and fear the prospect of 'Pit the Younger' getting power and making it worse.
Best, difficult to say really, she did some bad things but on the whole Thatcher (in my life time) as she stood up to europe and turned a failing country around.
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from my point of view this article will talk better
http://www.socialismtoday.org/128/thatcher.html (http://www.socialismtoday.org/128/thatcher.html)
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The current economic crisis has furthered this process and engenders a sense of despair from capitalist economists about the weakened industrial base of Britain and what this will mean for the future. We consistently warned at the time and since that the substitution of a casino economy of the ‘candyfloss’ industries of finance, banking, etc, in place of production, of industries producing real value, would ultimately result in a catastrophe for British capitalism and the British people."
"In the recent, shameful distribution of character assassinating emails from Brown’s private office is once more revealed the degeneration of Labour from a pro-workers’ party at the bottom, albeit with a pro-capitalist leadership, into one no different in its politics and ‘morals’, or lack of them, than the other capitalist parties in Britain."
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Cem, perhaps you should read the Mail to get a balanced view. ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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It fails to mention how the old heavy industry in Britain would have been able to compete with the new heavy industries in the far east (China in particular) in the 21st century. I would imagine a blank cheque govt. subsidy would be taken for granted.
Finance isnt a candy floss industry.Its an absolutely vital industry (even in communist China) but this country got into the position where it relied too heavily on that sector (and allowed certain elements of it to operate completely out of control)and needs to learn that lesson in the longer term imo.
We cant suddenly conjure up competitive efficient shipyards etc. out of thin air though. A joined up,thought through long term plan needs to be drawn up but where are the types of people in this country now who are capable of doing that ?
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Cem, perhaps you should read the Mail to get a balanced view. ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Cleggy , the evidence and the proof is in front of everyone's eyes.. look what become the poor, old non industrialized china
besides, any govt or PM trying to lower the miners very hard earned wages will become my target.. no ifs buts..
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It fails to mention how the old heavy industry in Britain would have been able to compete with the new heavy industries in the far east (China in particular) in the 21st century. I would imagine a blank cheque govt. subsidy would be taken for granted.
Finance isnt a candy floss industry.Its an absolutely vital industry (even in communist China) but this country got into the position where it relied too heavily on that sector (and allowed certain elements of it to operate completely out of control)and needs to learn that lesson in the longer term imo.
We cant suddenly conjure up competitive efficient shipyards etc. out of thin air though. A joined up,thought through long term plan needs to be drawn up but where are the types of people in this country now who are capable of doing that ?
yes it is ;D if the industry dont produce anything , they will put toilet papers in their bank instead of valuable cash.. ;D ::)
they are useful/necessary if they work honestly and properly.. but their current position now is sucking whole communities blood!
please remember that I work for an organization that controls them ;D
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oh and I forgot how this privatization brought every country to its knees including mine.. >:(
I still remember those privatization fans how they cry when they loose their job!
and when the 98 earthquake hit country they shout where is govt! here is your govt which you sell one by one and this is you get! all mobile lines go down .. only normal cable phones work which is now already sold >:(
I can tell millions of stories from my country what has happened!
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Nationalisation brought this country to its knees Cem.We couldnt even get our dead buried or rubbish bins emptied in the late 70,s. ;)
The Government didnt try to cut miners wages btw.The miners (and all the other nationalised industries) constantly went on strike for almost no reason whatsoever.Their annual wage rise demands were usually in the region of 20% - 30% which caused hyperinflation and resulted in the British Chancellor going cap in hand to the IMF because the country was bankrupt. ;)
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Nationalisation brought this country to its knees Cem.We couldnt even get our dead buried or rubbish bins emptied in the late 70,s. ;)
The Government didnt try to cut miners wages btw.The miners (and all the other nationalised industries) constantly went on strike for almost no reason whatsoever.Their annual wage rise demands were usually in the region of 20% - 30% which caused hyperinflation and resulted in the British Chancellor going cap in hand to the IMF because the country was bankrupt. ;)
Albs, workers never go on strike for no apparent reason.. who is going to risk their job and wage if its the only way they buy food..
please dont tell me the good old British Empire is communist ;D
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now can you answer one question : the Bank of England is private or not ?
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Nationalisation brought this country to its knees Cem.We couldnt even get our dead buried or rubbish bins emptied in the late 70,s. ;)
The Government didnt try to cut miners wages btw.The miners (and all the other nationalised industries) constantly went on strike for almost no reason whatsoever.Their annual wage rise demands were usually in the region of 20% - 30% which caused hyperinflation and resulted in the British Chancellor going cap in hand to the IMF because the country was bankrupt. ;)
Albs, workers never go on strike for no apparent reason.. who is going to risk their job and wage if its the only way they buy food..
please dont tell me the good old British Empire is communist ;D
This country became perilously close to becoming a communist country in the 70,s Cem.The Unions were so powerful that the PM was very frightened of them and famously invited them to Downing street for beer and sandwiches to try to reason with them.
They made ludicrous demands and if they werent met they would go on strike and until the demands were met.Unions had plenty of money and used to pay memebrs strike pay,which was enough to keep them going until the 30% wage demand was met.
A union shop steward simply needed to walk through the factory,whistle,point to the door,and the workforce would fall into line behind him and walk out without even being given a reason why they were doing it.
It brought the country to its knees and if it hadnt been for hard nosed Thatcher fighing and winning a war against them the UK would have been a third world country by now.
The agenda was to overthrow capitalism and replace it with Marxism and it almost succeeded.
All the while of course,the Union barons lived in large houses with chaufeur driven cars and had enormous salaries and pensions.
Meet the new boss,the same as the old boss* ;)
* from "wont get fooled again" by The Who.
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now can you answer one question : the Bank of England is private or not ?
Well,yes and no.Sort of. ;D
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now can you answer one question : the Bank of England is private or not ?
Well,yes and no.Sort of. ;D
;D ;D ;D as you see :y
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Its an independent public organisation these days.....which is quite clever as it provides 'some' distance between the role of the central bank and the government of the day and hence the monetary policy committee.
In summary, its not private!
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Its an independent public organisation these days.....which is quite clever as it provides 'some' distance between the role of the central bank and the government of the day and hence the monetary policy committee
Although, as I understand it, the Government appoints its head, such as the Canadian due to take over next April. ::) ::) ::) ::)
So no one can tell me it is truly politically independent! ::) ::)
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Its an independent public organisation these days.....which is quite clever as it provides 'some' distance between the role of the central bank and the government of the day and hence the monetary policy committee
Although, as I understand it, the Government appoints its head, such as the Canadian due to take over next April. ::) ::) ::) ::)
So no one can tell me it is truly politically independent! ::) ::)
They never will be although the fact its operated by a proven banker who can reject the government requestes if the committee deem fit is some comfort......
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Its an independent public organisation these days.....which is quite clever as it provides 'some' distance between the role of the central bank and the government of the day and hence the monetary policy committee.
In summary, its not private!
this is hard to say Mr DTM..
"jo public" can never own or manage it..
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Exactly, its not private, if it was private we could buy a stake in it.....reality is that all those who are part of 'GB plc' have an 'interest'....
As for manage it, yes, if your good enough as per any other bank/business :y
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Exactly, its not private, if it was private we could buy a stake in it.....reality is that all those who are part of 'GB plc' have an 'interest'....
As for manage it, yes, if your good enough as per any other bank/business :y
you are good enough , but never in your life you can see even edge of it ;)
just check
http://the-tap.blogspot.com/2010/02/who-owns-bank-of-england.html (http://the-tap.blogspot.com/2010/02/who-owns-bank-of-england.html)
http://the-tap.blogspot.com/2012/02/bank-of-england-facts-from-wasp.html (http://the-tap.blogspot.com/2012/02/bank-of-england-facts-from-wasp.html)
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Beware of blog spots cem, there is as much if not more spin than truth in them :y
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Beware of blog spots cem, there is as much if not more spin than truth in them :y
about blogs, you are right.. but I cant imagine someone listing all those famous names as a lie.. you will loose your everything when those people start to open cases/juries against you!
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As per teh old saying cem, if you owe the banks money, you are in trouble. If you owe the banks lots of money, they are in trouble ;D
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As per teh old saying cem, if you owe the banks money, you are in trouble. If you owe the banks lots of money, they are in trouble ;D
;D :y
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My worst ever PM was one I got from Albs. Couldn't understand a word the stupid Irish twit was saying.
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Coz you cant understand articulate queens English you scouse ignoramus. :P
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{looks up} ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Cem,
As I listed the other day on a thread, service industries in the UK run a balance of payment surplus, without which we would be in big trouble, where manufacturing is in a deficit.
Financial services, does not only cover the banks, but also our very successful stock exchange, where many countries industries are listed and Lloyds of London who are the biggest insurance underwriters in the world. Insurance is a major industry for us. Likewise accountancy. two of the global big four have UK headquarters, PWC and Ernst and Young. Other major service sector exports are architecture, engineer consultancy (ARM design the CPUs that power 90% of the worlds mobile phones and tablet computers) computer software (about 10% of worlds computer games are developed here, advertising agencies, books (Harry Potter etc), TV programmes (X factor, who wants to be a millionaire etc), pop music (the US and UK account for about 80% of popular musical groups and global sales), sport (Football, Cricket, Rugby, F1, BSB, Snooker and Darts (about 80% of sports were invented in the UK)), retailing (Tesco, M&S) to name but a few. :y
Three of our strengths are our legal system , which is why many countries and businesses use English law in contracts, our language, which is the universal business language and also (thanks to the US), the universal programming language and our timezone +/- 8 hours covers most of the industrialized countries of the world. So you can be talking to China and Japan first thing in the morning and California in the late afternoon. :y
The UK was the worlds leading nation from about 1550 to 1950, when the US took over. Where our Navy used to get around a bit 25% of the earths landmass was part of the British Empire. We had a saying "The sun never sets on the British Empire". Where we seem to like fighting, there are only 22 countries in the world we have never invaded! ::)
Our biggest problem in the 20th and 21st century have been Labour governments as they have always run out of other people's money. In the 1970's they brought the country to its knees and they may well of done so again, time will tell. >:(
Mass factory production tends to concentrate in low wage cost countries where it is labour intensive. However robots are changing this as highly automated factories in Europe that employ very few staff can compete. This is one reason French unemployment and productivity are both high. Robots aren't restricted to a 35 hour week. :y
Manufacturing will significantly contract again over the next few years in all of Western Europe due to the German Greens and the resultant EU energy policies. The US and China are far too sensible to sign up to this fraud. Data showing the world is cooling at the moment, hence the run of European and North American cold winters we are currently experiencing, all governments in on the fraud try to suppress the satellite global temperature sensing data, but it is available on the Internet.
For most of the last 800,000 years the northern hemisphere has been covered in snow and glaciers with unusually low CO2 levels, hence the need to increase CO2 and global temperature, to stop us sliding into the next overdue one. ::)
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Thatcher, worst in my lifetime by a very comfortable margin.
Proper evil she was, the country has been a much worse place ever since.
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Cem,
As I listed the other day on a thread, service industries in the UK run a balance of payment surplus, without which we would be in big trouble, where manufacturing is in a deficit.
sadly true.. but why ? because the political/economical power managing your country in the last decades decided that your country must buy from outside instead of producing inside the country (which also prooves my ideas about labour party ;D ).. some football commenter televole economists may claim that this has no harm but thats totally wrong!!! it will bring UK down to its knees , you will be highly dependant on external parameters and leave most workers jobless and in a situation of war it will take serious time to start production again.. and there are also countless harmful side effects that I cant list here..
solutions for this problem is not new, well known and valid.. but I'm not sure your multinational companies will permit :(
must add also, no country can stay in that position for long time..
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Financial services, does not only cover the banks, but also our very successful stock exchange, where many countries industries are listed and Lloyds of London who are the biggest insurance underwriters in the world. Insurance is a major industry for us. Likewise accountancy. two of the global big four have UK headquarters, PWC and Ernst and Young. Other major service sector exports are architecture, engineer consultancy (ARM design the CPUs that power 90% of the worlds mobile phones and tablet computers) computer software (about 10% of worlds computer games are developed here, advertising agencies, books (Harry Potter etc), TV programmes (X factor, who wants to be a millionaire etc), pop music (the US and UK account for about 80% of popular musical groups and global sales), sport (Football, Cricket, Rugby, F1, BSB, Snooker and Darts (about
Rods the sectors you listed above , feeds only a marginal percentage of country.. what will do the rest ?
let me remind you , the countries total debit is increasing and one day IMF will start to dictate harsh laws on your govts .. and I dont want to comment for later events.. :-X
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Rods2 I cannot argue with your financial knowledge, but I must correct your understanding of the British Empire with your statement to Cem:
"The UK was the worlds leading nation from about 1550 to 1950, when the US took over"
The British Empire grew rather than appeared at a certain date, with steady growth over 200 years based on capitalism and acquisation. In 1550 England was not a world power. Spain was. France was. But the UK did not exist, and it was England that was fighting for its very survival.
In 1558 Elizabeth I came to the throne, a protestant, daughter of Henry VIII, and as far as the King of Spain, Philip II, along with, more importantly, the head of the Catholic Church, Pope Pius IV was concerned she was a "bastard" and an enemy of the Catholic Church. Indeed Pope Pius V in 1570, whilst Elizabeth was trying to deal with the "difficult" problem of Queen of Mary Scots (a Catholic) she was excommunicated and classed as the "pretended Queen of England, the serpent of wickedness". This would all lead in 1588 to the Spanish Armada, and King Philips attempt to invade England and take the crown.
We all know the outcome of that, and although Spain never recovered from the overall costs of that escapade, it remained a world power, with England greatly boosted in confidence, but still not strong enough to take Spain, and France on. Remember, Henry VIII had spent all the nations wealth on palaces and lavish living, in an even worse way than the Labour Government would do 420+ years later (see history can repeat itself)
It was only in 1603 when James I, VI of Scotland came to power that he brought with him Scotland, Ireland and Wales, to start to form what would become Great Britain. However, it was England that drove the lust for wealth and power through commerce and industry. It really was not until The Glorious Revolution of 1688 that the early shoots of real Empire started to form with England's commercial power growing in the City Of London, on the back of the aristocracy and landed gentry investing their wealth into expanding industry, leading up to the start of the Industrial Revolution in 1750. Colonies were also being gathered.
It was after 1688 that the Royal Navy started to gain real strength, with the Dutch navy brought under the command of British Admirals. It was from this time that the key battles took place, leading up to Trafalgar on 21st October 1805, when the Royal Navy defeated the combined fleets of France and Spain. This was THE time that the British Empire came into full dominance, being absolutely the supreme naval power across the globe. The land Battle of Waterloo in 1815 was the final defeat of the French Empire, and gave the British Empire full reign to develop business interests around the World. On the back of the Industrial Revolution, which technically did not end until the late nineteenth century, British commercial interests fuelled the power house of the greatest Empire known in history. It was not until Germany came to industrial prominence in the early twentieth century, engaging in an arms race with Britain that led to the complex reasons for the First World War. With American industrial and commercial power growing, the start of the First World War was the zenith of British power. It was in decline thereafter, with Great Britain entering World War Two rather depleted. That war ended with Britain in dire financial straights. A quarter (some £7,000 million) of the national wealth and been lost, she owed £3,000,000,000 to the USA in loans; £152,000,000 had been lost in dollar and gold reserves; there was the cost of £152,000,000 for property damage and destruction; £700,000,000 in shipping losses, and finally £900,000,000 in stock depreciation and write off. Britain also had a military consisting of 9,000,000 personnel, 4 times the pre-war figure. In short Britain could no longer afford to police, maintain, or even retain her Empire. It had to go for Great Britain to survive.
Thus with India going in 1947 and most other dependencies and colonies going thereafter, it is considered by historians that the British Empire ended in 1960.
If you are interested to read further on this subject, the books I recommend are:
Cain, P.J. & Hopkins, A.G. British Imperialism 1688-2000 Longman (2002)
Hennessy, P. Never Again Britain 1945-51 Penguin Books (2006)
Hoppit, J. A Land Of Liberty England 1689-1727 Oxford University Press (2000)
Pocock, T. Trafalgar An Eye Witness History The Folio Society (2005)
Sked, A. & Cook, C. A Political History 1945-1992 Penguin Books (1993)
Weir, A. Elizabeth The Queen Pimlico (1999)
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You get a grounding of history and economics on these forums, certainly not boring...well not all the time. ;)
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You get a grounding of history and economics on these forums, certainly not boring...well not all the time. ;)
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We try, without I hope preaching! ::) ::) ::)
I like to create an interest in a subject I am personally passionate about, which I think helps to explain where, and why, Britain is in the position it is. :) :)