Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Marks DTM Calib on 01 May 2013, 12:55:30
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This happened at the weekend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr5EztEPJS8
The loco in question was due to travel to the GCRN this week for our gala....its not coming now given that the brake rigging is bent and the tender to engine coupling looks like a cork screw.
So, always check they way ahead!
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OOOPS ... and you could see it coming looking at the tracks ... :(
So .. who gets the blame ?? driver or signalman/points operator ?? :(
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Ultimate responsibility is the train crew.
Even if given permission to pass a signal at danger you must check the way ahead is clear and safe to proceed, I know when I am at the controls I check all points even if the signal indicates clear.
Whats not evident is if permission to pass at danger was given (it should have been recorded in the book), the driver thinks he has permission by the (second) long whistle blast as he approaches the signal.
A question is why would you ever be given permission to pass such a signal given the interlocking.
From my experience (limited), the trap points will be linked to the main points which connect to the main line so that if they are set in your favour then the trap point is closed. Once this is done, and only then, can the signal be pulled off.
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what a knob mark, i spotted it miles off, then he looked out the cab to see what happened. lol
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what a knob mark, i spotted it miles off, then he looked out the cab to see what happened. lol
Indeed, still a full report will follow I am sure.
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Definitely an OH! SHIT moment ::) :(
Need some strong lads to lift that back o :D or can you use the guys from Toton ???
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When I was involved in re-railing an 08 it was a jack and pack job (jack it and place hardwood 'rails' under the wheels then drive it back on to the rails).
For this one they used an old steam crane
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Ooopps indeed :o
Good job it was not going any faster!
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Rare now of course, but catch points have in the past saved a many a potentially dangerous situation, even complete disaster, but made a foot plate crew very red with embarrassment. At least this engine remained upright and did not slip sideways down an embankment as many have! :D :D
As Mark has said there is no obvious evidence of permission being given to pass the signal at danger, so the catch points remained in an on position. Very elementary usually to any foot plate crew, but obviously not in this case!! ::) ::) ::) Yes, and I agree Mark, the points and signal are interlinked, so signal at danger means no right of way; end of! ::) ::) ::) In addition I would add that if stopped at a signal for 3 minutes under Rule 55 the driver should report to the signal box and ensure the signalman is fully acquainted with the presence of the driver's train. With the box so close this should not have been a problem, but as in history some individuals have ignored the rules and caused havoc and death. The worst of all in 1915 at Quintinshill with an estimate of 227 dead and 245 injured. In that case it was a signalman's fault, criminally so:'( :'(
I wonder if it was reported to the Railway Inspectorate as it should be?
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For those interested, in addition to what I posted above, I believe actually the driver was trying to obey clause (g) of Rule 55, paragraph (i) and (ii) whereby:
" If it is necessary owing to a failure of the signal or other emergency, for the train to pass the signal concerned at Danger, the Signalman must advise the Driver of the circumstances and instruct him to proceed cautiously."
[/b]In every case when a train proceeds past a stop signal at Danger, in accordance with the preceding paragraph (i) or clause (h) [ all of which emphasise the need for the train crew to communicate with the signal box personally or by phone], as the case may be, the Driver must give one long whistle and proceed cautiously as far as the line is clear towards the next stop signal in advance and at such speed as to enable him to stop short of any obstruction, due regard being paid to such conditions as curvature of line, weather, etc."
In other words this driver did one thing right; give one long blast of the whistle, but did nothing else according to Rule 55! ::) ::) :)
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Excuse my ignorance, but what is the point of that set of points exactly? :-\
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Excuse my ignorance, but what is the point of that set of points exactly? :-\
to stop a loco/train entering the main line, causing a collision, as could have happened as a train came down that line moments later. the catchpoints did the job. :y
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Trap points in this case
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What a plonker ;D
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Trap points in this case
So they did there job then, by preventing it joining the main line, a bit drastic though?....... :-\ :-\
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Trap points in this case
So they did there job then, by preventing it joining the main line, a bit drastic though?....... :-\ :-\
How else do you stop a train?
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Trap points in this case
So they did there job then, by preventing it joining the main line, a bit drastic though?....... :-\ :-\
How else do you stop a train?
Emergency cord! ::) ::)
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Trap points in this case
So they did their job then, by preventing it joining the main line, a bit drastic though?....... :-\ :-\
Very effective, presumably that would have been a touch more dramatic had the train been going more quickly :-\
Are such systems still in use, or do we rely solely on electrickery and computers :-\
Might such points have prevented the Ladbrook Grove crash from happening :-\
Oh, and that'll be a £150 fine for improper use Mr P ;D
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Trap points are still used as are catch points as they protect against un-manned runaways as well as 'errors'.
Ladbrook Grove was somewhat different although some changes to the points arrangement could have prevented it (e.g.flank protection)
I can confirm that the Loco has sustained some heavy damage which is more extensive and much more costly than the brake rigging and coupling.
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Thanks for that :y Used the example as I knew someone on the InterCity involved :'(
Is it beyond repair? Twisted chassis or summat :-\
On balance probably cheaper than passenger fatalities, which presumably is why those points are fitted...
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Trap points are still used as are catch points as they protect against un-manned runaways as well as 'errors'.
Ladbrook Grove was somewhat different although some changes to the points arrangement could have prevented it (e.g.flank protection)
I can confirm that the Loco has sustained some heavy damage which is more extensive and much more costly than the brake rigging and coupling.
That does not surprise me. They are heavy machines and do significant damage when bounced over onto the sleepers via the track chairs. The track of course would also be damaged. The springs, roller bearings, wheel flanges, brake rigging would all suffer, and there is always a risk of cracking the frames. :(
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I am surprised that they used concrete sleepers following a trap point.
No roller bearings on this one Lizzie, I am sure I will get the low down at the weekend from the GCR crews.
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I am surprised that they used concrete sleepers following a trap point.
No roller bearings on this one Lizzie, I am sure I will get the low down at the weekend from the GCR crews.
Ah, thanks Mark :y :y :y. Yes these were introduced prior to BR days, and it was the later Standard classes on which they were introduced, so plain white metalled bearings on these Class 2's. Even more damage possible then. :'( :'(
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I am surprised that they used concrete sleepers following a trap point.
No roller bearings on this one Lizzie, I am sure I will get the low down at the weekend from the GCR crews.
Ah, thanks Mark :y :y :y. Yes these were introduced prior to BR days, and it was the later Standard classes on which they were introduced, so plain white metalled bearings on these Class 2's. Even more damage possible then. :'( :'(
either way the loco is going to cost a fair bit to fix :'( :'( what a shame that was-hope it will return soon-too few around now-those things really have a soul dont they
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Any news yet on the damage done, if any, to 46521 Mark? ??? ???
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Trap points in this case
So they did there job then, by preventing it joining the main line, a bit drastic though?....... :-\ :-\
How else do you stop a train?
handbrake :D
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Any news yet on the damage done, if any, to 46521 Mark? ??? ???
Quite a bit more than initially thought.
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Any news yet on the damage done, if any, to 46521 Mark? ??? ???
Quite a bit more than initially thought.
Thanks Mark :y :y :y
Any details to be had? ;)