Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: TheBoy on 02 October 2013, 19:53:38
-
Doom and gloom in the PC market due to falling sales, blamed on Tablet use.
But is it tablets?
I'm not sure. I wonder if its just because the previous generation of desktops and laptops are still good enough, and with everyone watching the pennies, why upgrade if the existing kit is good enough?
For example, whilst I have tablets, I mostly use my laptop or desktop.
Laptop, 5yrs old maybe, HP business notebook, Core Duo. Only upgrades its had are an extra 1Gb RAM to bring it to 2Gb as soon as I got it, a 120Gb SSD to replace the HDD 2 or 3 yrs ago, and upgraded to Win7 Pro 32bit from Vista Business when Win7 came out.
Desktop, similar vintage, maybe older, Core2 Quad, pair of 360Gb drives in RAID0, and upgraded to 4Gb when I flirted with 64bit Windows, now back on Win7 Pro 32bit, originally supplied with Vista Business.
Both of these machines are still plenty quick enough, and capable of the varied workload they get, so why should I replace them?
And there lies the PC manufacturers' dilema. And Win8 is not the answer.
-
Aside from the guts of the Nedia Center replaced last year, courtesy of Mr Nectar, these are the newest personal machines I have (Mrs TBs lappy is slightly younger, but still Vista vintage)
-
There is certainly a subset of users for whom a tablet is all they need, and probably a far better choice than a pc.
PC's are one hell of a lot more powerful than they used to be, and the shelf life of a lettuce no longs seems to apply, they offer far more power than most need or will ever use.
Its gotta mean a longer life before they seem to sluggish.
-
There is certainly a subset of users for whom a tablet is all they need, and probably a far better choice than a pc.
PC's are one hell of a lot more powerful than they used to be, and the shelf life of a lettuce no longs seems to apply, they offer far more power than most need or will ever use.
Its gotta mean a longer life before they seem to sluggish.
And a longer life than tablets...
-
Yep, little to be gained from upgrading, and anything you buy these days will have Windows 8, so the average Joe will probably be scared off at first sight of the GUI.
I'm sure many are finding that they can do what they want on a tablet or their gayphone whilst sitting in front of the TV and that there's no need to shut themselves away in the spare bedroom in front of a desktop machine.
PC gaming is not worth the ballache these days, and that used to be the main reason for constant upgrades.
Lots of new "shiny" devices to soak up people's discretionary spending these days too, so non-vital upgrades get shelved.
The combination of these factors is probably enough to bring the sector to a standstill.
-
I don't know a great deal about winDoh's as I'm sure you know, but it seems to me everything produced by Microdroop since Xp has done nothing more than piss their customers off. Their may be a few improvements I dare say, I wouldn't know, but if I think that I'm sure there's a few more out there that feel the same
That being, its basically the same package, but if you upgrade from xp all your doing is making basic operation and functions harder to find.
Its like going to Sainsburys that's now owned by Nokia. You know what you want and where it is, but when you get there the oppsing w@nkets have moved it and are trying to sell you sumat else instead. I don't want an update, I don't want to f@ck about with security, I just want to search the web or change a setting. Easily and simply. And if I do want to update or sort the security DONT KEEP MOVING THE GOAL POSTS.
Then, like Nokia, when the upgrade comes along, Afaict, they can't be bothered to tell you why it's better.
Dont get me wrong its always nice to have the latest software, until I have to pay for it. Even Apple understand this. (Not sure about their desk tops or lap tops? )
Why do I need anything better than XP? Serious question.
-
Oh, and it would be quite nice if the poxy thing turned on inside a half hour.
Rant over. ;D
-
imo mobiles and tablets are the answer as others pointed out.. younger generations dont want to spend time with a bulky machine..
anyway they are after internet and messaging which those devices can do :-\ so they are the main driver in the market..
-
i've just had to replace my 17" macbook pro, after a fatal accident , where it fell 4 foot on to concrete.... hard drive survived intact, and the thing even powered up, but failed to boot, collected a logic board fault , screen survived as well... but the thing was deemed uneconomical to repair, case was a bit mangled on one end..... so, an immaculate C2D 2.93GHz 17" MBP off ebay for £780 (needed for assorted features, like 3/4 pci-express slot, and work related mac only software.... )
typically a mac lasts me 5-6 years before i need to upgrade ... and then usually only because of compatibility issues with clients and their current software versions...
8GB ram, and a 750GB hybrid SSD/platter drive , it's not the quad core i7 i would have liked, but it's left me enough money to buy parts for the omega out of the insurance settlement,... thank god...... (i could have bought the i7 , but need the mv6 sorted.... so bit the bullet and got the lower spec machine.... it's not like it's short on grunt ) , so cam belt , drive belt, oil and coolant , amongst other things.... got a rear tyre to sort, then the MOT at the weekend...
fingers crossed...
still don;t own a tablet.... quite fancy an iPad, but really cannot justify the expense..... it's not like it does anything i can't do on the laptop.... i debated getting the wife a used one of egay, , but instead bought her a new battery and trackpad/keyboard/top plate for her ageing 15 inch macbook pro..... make it shiny and useful again.....
-
Surely pc's only use these days is for work/desktop use.
I mean who sits at a desk these days, if not for work use?
A poll perhaps?
-
PC's are handy for wedging doors open,..
;D
-
I don't know a great deal about winDoh's as I'm sure you know, but it seems to me everything produced by Microdroop since Xp has done nothing more than piss their customers off. Their may be a few improvements I dare say, I wouldn't know, but if I think that I'm sure there's a few more out there that feel the same
Sadly, most of the crap written about Vista was originally written by thick IT journos, the same ones who said XP was crap when that was launched.
Vista is actually very good, both as a OS and as a UI. However, people slated it on 2 fronts due to lack of willingness to use things slightly different - the interface being based around search (you don't need to know where something is, only more or less what its called) although you could do things the old fashioned way, and UAC, that fantastic security device to stop people who must run as administrators from buggering their OS with every virus/nasty/shite available. Shame so many retards think their cock is larger than their ego.
Vista's only real downside is it's successor, Windows 7, is even better.
Why do I need anything better than XP? Serious question.
XP is old, and ultimately broken. It was written in a time when the Internet wasn't invented (its basically an evolution on the 20yr old NT3.1), and while security is strong when the OS performs to spec, there are too many flaws that can cause it to be compromised. However, keep the patching up to date, it remains pretty good, although a lot of software won't run on it now, in much the same way that a lot of iPhone software needs IOS6 or later now.
However, the one single reason to move off XP before next March is that MS are pulling the plug on it. That then means any flaws are not fixed, thus making every XP machine connected to a network ultimately insecure.
It will be 13yrs old by then. MS are very, very good at providing support for that length of time.
-
I think MS continuously messing with the Windows GUI must be putting a lot of people off. No sooner has the punter got used to the Vista/7 way of doing things than their entire desktop gets turned into some sort of giant tablet clearly designed by Duplo. They now have to grapple with a touch screen AND a mouse AND a keyboard to get anything done. My boss loves gadgets, and got a very sexy ultrabook a couple of months back. Normally, it would have been the centre of his universe by now, but he took it on one business trip, utterly failed to get on with WIndows 8, and it's been gathering dust ever since. He never stops talking about the Apple he bought for home use, and how he'll never buy another Windows 8 machine. This is someone who's used PCs as a developer from the days of DOS, through every version of Windows there has been.
An OS is a purely utilitarian creation. It needs to be there to do basic things then get out of the way to let the user do something more interesting. It's a toaster in a kitchen full of different jams. Sell a new type of toaster, by all means, but tell the punter that he's now got to use a special type of bread, and cut it at exactly the right angle before lifting the toaster up and shoving it in the bottom.. and he'll laugh at you and stick with what does the job. ;D
No point in talking about how much more secure it is. The punter just knows that his machine gets borked every so often, and that's the way PCs are, and always have been. Security doesn't cross his mind until the machine dies, and soon passes when he's back up and running again. I'm not even convinced UAC helps at all for a non-IT savvy user. My MIL still kills her machine on a regular basis. When a UAC notification comes up it's just "Yeah, whatever" and before you know it, she's owned. Allowing a pleb to raise something to root privileges at the click of a button is all very well and good if they actually read and understand what's happening.
Somehow, I think the future is in machines like tablets that exist in their own walled garden and "just work" without the need for the user to make decisions they lack the knowledge to do.
-
So the only reason I need to update from xp is because WinDohs has moved on, ok.
And the only advert for the update is, they've changed it all around. Why am I interested ?
Oh, sorry I forgot, I'm not interested(as a customer) which was the original point.
It's not doing anything new
It's not convenient to use a pc.
It's not convenient to re learn the same shit a different way to achieve the same result.
Oh and did I mention...
It's not convenient, to even turn it on.
I don't need a pc. I didn't need a pc since the n95, or even before that. The only reason I ever used a pc at all is because that was the form access to the internet came in. I now have that in my pocket.
If Microlimp need that explaining to them, they are in real trouble, surely?
Do they think they are too big to be the next "Nokia" so to speak? They need to be where their customers are, not expect customers to come to them.
-
It just works.
That's what everybody wants. I mean nobody is going to pay good money for something that doesn't. But how it works is key.
Apple just works. Google android doesn't. ;D by that I mean people want to be able to mess about with it, play with the nuts and bolts, push the envelope of the device os and come up with something new.
Two distinct camps. There's a market for something in between that somebody needs to fill. IMO.
I don't like Apples (uphill) Garden such as it is, but I'm not prepared to cock about too much either. Its my device, there are many like it, but this one is mine. And I expect it to still work after I've gone off the map by a few feet.
In short, Progress. Windows has none, ESP as a pc. At all. Its dead. Accept it and move on.
-
I also was contemplating why I have been putting off a PC upgrade and I have come to the conclusion that:
1. My 4 year old vista system is slow to load up but once loaded it is "good enough" and with all the stuff in there I cannot be arsed to migrate it all to something else as lots of sorting needed.
2. Because ipad is so handy for quick access to web etc it has therefore extended life of my pc. If I did not have ipad I would have changed pc months ago.
-
Its interesting as we have a three year old laptop which just works fine and a desktop PC which just works fine.
Not doing gaming I cant see them being replaced (the previous desktop was 9 years old before being replaced) unless a pretty fatal issue occurs on them. The desktop does run Train Simulator pretty well so it must have some graphics grunt.
-
Its interesting as we have a three year old laptop which just works fine and a desktop PC which just works fine.
Not doing gaming I cant see them being replaced (the previous desktop was 9 years old before being replaced) unless a pretty fatal issue occurs on them. The desktop does run Train Simulator pretty well so it must have some graphics grunt.
:) without doubt you were somehow related with trains in your previous life .. I bet.. ;D :y
-
Interestingly Cem, its not mine ;D
-
Still using a 6 year old Toshiba Satallite here.
Stuck a couple more gig of ram in it last year when I upgraded windows to win 7 ultimate and replaced the case which was cracked.
It does everything I ask of it so why change ?
If anything breaks or falls off then i'll repair of upgrade the part.
Thats my opinion anyway :)
As for win8
Mini Me bought himself a pc from Aldi last summer.
Win 8, 1Tb hard drive and 3 years on site warranty for 350 quid.
Can't go wrong with that deal imo :y
-
Seem to recall a similar debate a couple of years ago, when it was felt that the laptop was taking over from the desktop ::)
-
Interestingly Cem, its not mine ;D
:) well .. everyone loves trains in the family then ;D :y
-
Off topic but Britannia 70000 went through Woking today in full steam with coaches - probably en route to Victoria. Nice sight.
-
Off topic but Britannia 70000 went through Woking today in full steam with coaches - probably en route to Victoria. Nice sight.
Cathedrals Express, Alton to Canterbury and return :y
-
Thanks TB, you have basically highlighted to me the problem with Vista, Win 7 etc navigation for the brief time I have used then. The human brain's memory works by association, so I find by far the quickest way to navigate to what I want to is having all the folders displayed in the left panel on Windows explorer and use my brains strength memory association.
Yes, it does require discipline in setting up root folders and subfolders in logical ways, but that works very well for me, with just a few clicks to expand the directory structure and load what I want.
The problem with search is being able to remember or guess the appropriate words to get the right results and is very slow and brings up lots of results that you don't need. Ok for an occasional user, where time is not money, I guess, likewise with hiding everything out of sight. I can't be the only person that feels like this where many people in preference still use XP and people are voting with their feet and wallets. Yes, I will be going over to Windows 8.1 when I build myself a new PC at some point in the next few months where Windows XP will no longer be supported and also due to where they use HW screen rendering, better multi-core, multi-thread support along with better code optimization to make things faster. I just hope I don't have to resort to sammy to show it who the boss is. ::) :o ;D It will also be like all my machines AMD based as Intel is another monopoly I try to avoid and by buying AMD, it continues to keep Intel a bit more honest on pricing.
Thats the problem with arrogant monopolies like Microsoft is they want to decide what is the most efficient way for me to work, not me. The removal of the start button in Win 8 just show how out of touch they are with the people that put up with using their software. I've said for many, many years that Microsoft like all monopolies will eventually go bust or be taken over, they can't and won't cope with more nimble footed competition. Android now powers over 60% of computing devices and is growing fast and Unix / Linux power the majority of web servers. Once a much better office suite appears they will be in real trouble.
PC's, and Laptops are not easy to use and are high maintenance compared to phones and tablets. Yes, there will continue to be a small but significant market with businesses and more intense users of computing power to use PC's and Laptops, but for the majority of people a tablet will suffice. I thought the MS Surface was a good tablet / PC compromise with the add on keyboard, but MS pricing arrogance has stopped it going mass market, if they had stacked them high and sold them cheap while developing comparable market presence and software support to compete with Apple and Google than I think they would have been a much more significant player, they might get one more bite of the cherry with Surface 2, but personally, I think they will make the same mistakes again.
I also agree that there is an element of people not upgrading as quickly as they used to and also upgrading memory, HD size to extend the life of a PC and apart from high end games, power and performance is fine for a much longer period of time than PC's used to last where I used to look at a 2 to 4 year lifecycle, my present PC, which is now just beginning to get irritating slow at times and is about 8 - 9 years old.
-
It's not just Microsoft who are suffering from changing stuff for its' own sake. People left Ubuntu in their droves when they started shipping that daft Unity GUI.
-
I updated my desktop last year, tho didnt really need to. The old pc ran XP and did the job i used it for. I also have a netbook, now the netbook after a RAM upgrade and the newish desktop run doz7.
I use the netbook for everyday use, like now and the desktop gets used for photo library. It has an A3 printer attached. Its no good trying to view/edit photos on my netbooks 10" screen. So i use the desktop with 19" screen to view/edit before printing in A3.
Tho the advantage of the updated desktop is the speed it boots and opens programs. oh and it uses about 150W less power.
I cannot see me updating the pc or the netbook anytime some.
-
I think MS continuously messing with the Windows GUI must be putting a lot of people off. No sooner has the punter got used to the Vista/7 way of doing things than their entire desktop gets turned into some sort of giant tablet clearly designed by Duplo.
Actually, its no different to the Vista/Win7 way of working. Its just different to the XP way of working.
Thats not to say I don't have my own set of grumbles with it - oh boy do I, but thats not based around the OS or UI (although the UI has some serious usability issues), its based around the way MS expects new apps to look/function.
-
So the only reason I need to update from xp is because WinDohs has moved on, ok.
(applies to rest of your post as well, but snipped it for space/tidyness)
Could say the same for a lot of things. Putting a non-IT spin on, would you rather stick to a CRT TV? Or SD/Analogue telly? Or a DVD player instead of gayray (actually, I fall over on this last one, as I no longer have a gayray player in the house :-[)?
Like an old Vauxhall Cavalier, good in its time, but now time to retire it and bring on something more modern :)
As to your other post about tablets, yeah, I don't disagree with what you say. But they are flawed themselves. No software I want to run is available, and I find the format unfriendly (as I like a keyboard). I disagree on turn on speeds. Faster coming out of standby by less than a second, and slower by a couple of seconds booting up. I'm comparing current gen iPAD against my 5yr old laptop here ;)
-
Thanks TB, you have basically highlighted to me the problem with Vista, Win 7 etc navigation for the brief time I have used then. The human brain's memory works by association, so I find by far the quickest way to navigate to what I want to is having all the folders displayed in the left panel on Windows explorer and use my brains strength memory association.
With Vista/W7, the same ways were available in addition to the search method. W8 has thrown a bit of a spanner in the works.
Yes, it does require discipline in setting up root folders and subfolders in logical ways, but that works very well for me, with just a few clicks to expand the directory structure and load what I want.
If that what works for you :y
Most people seem to just chuck everything in the default relevent library. This is where search works wonders.
It took me a few weeks to "get" Vista, then I was hooked. Search is fantastic. No mouse needed, don't need to move hands from keyboard home position - press Windows key and type. So fast, so easy, less RSI. Honestly can't remember the last time I used the All Programs option on the start menu on later Windows. Its a PITA at work when a W2K3 server needs something doing, and you have to fartarse around with start menus ;D.
Fortunately this is carried through to Win8.
-
It's not just Microsoft who are suffering from changing stuff for its' own sake. People left Ubuntu in their droves when they started shipping that daft Unity GUI.
Even some of the hardened crApple fanboys are asking about IOS7. IOS7 has some decent OS enhancements underneath, but all the users see is a childish looking UI now.
-
So the only reason I need to update from xp is because WinDohs has moved on, ok.
(applies to rest of your post as well, but snipped it for space/tidyness)
Could say the same for a lot of things. Putting a non-IT spin on, would you rather stick to a CRT TV? Or SD/Analogue telly? Or a DVD player instead of gayray (actually, I fall over on this last one, as I no longer have a gayray player in the house :-[)?
Like an old Vauxhall Cavalier, good in its time, but now time to retire it and bring on something more modern :)
As to your other post about tablets, yeah, I don't disagree with what you say. But they are flawed themselves. No software I want to run is available, and I find the format unfriendly (as I like a keyboard). I disagree on turn on speeds. Faster coming out of standby by less than a second, and slower by a couple of seconds booting up. I'm comparing current gen iPAD against my 5yr old laptop here ;)
Look you! ;D you can't ask people's opinion on why they think something is so, for consumer research, then disagree with them. The answers your getting are, apparently, why pc's don't sell. It's too late, those sales are lost, you can't change THAT, by arguing their wrong. ::)
Plus, you've completely ignored the opinion(which may or may not be correct) that anything from xp on is, basically a re jiggled version of the same thing. But with added confuddelment.
And if I do need something better than xp, nobody at Microdroop has bothered their arse to tell me.
Also, I suspect you still think ipad takes two mins to turn on. It doesn't, never did.
Ready steady .... Power..... OFF
-
Stop
-
That's power off and on again, then open safari and post.
-
Look you! ;D you can't ask people's opinion on why they think something is so, for consumer research, then disagree with them. The answers your getting are, apparently, why pc's don't sell. It's too late, those sales are lost, you can't change THAT, by arguing their wrong. ::)
I was only disagreeing with the view that PCs are slow to boot. Built right, they aren't ;).
Plus, you've completely ignored the opinion(which may or may not be correct) that anything from xp on is, basically a re jiggled version of the same thing. But with added confuddelment.
And if I do need something better than xp, nobody at Microdroop has bothered their arse to tell me.
You could go back further, and say W2K, as frankly XP offered buggerall from W2K. Or back to NT4, or further still.
Or, back to crApple, what does IOS7 offer over, say v3 (before they bought the rights to call it IOS)? As a user, I can't tell :-\
But I value your viewpoints on it, which are equally as valid as anyone elses.
-
I'm back after a shutdown and reboot
-
And that included a CTRL-ALT-DEL and password entry, plus typing in the URL (OOF isn't in my favourites on this (or any other) PC) :)
-
And from a 5yr old laptop :P
-
But Apple don't charge their customers for software. Jeez ::)
I realise theirs other financial reasons why one wouldn't upgrade Apple software though, but the vast majority are "legit". As are most of Microsoft customers. Yet Microsoft charge. (Again I don't know if Apple charge for lap or desktop software? Guessing not.)
-
And from a 5yr old laptop :P
With 5times the power ::)
-
But Apple don't charge their customers for software. Jeez ::)
I realise theirs other financial reasons why one wouldn't upgrade Apple software though, but the vast majority are "legit". As are most of Microsoft customers. Yet Microsoft charge. (Again I don't know if Apple charge for lap or desktop software? Guessing not.)
Oh Apple do charge. Its just the model is different. In effect, the inflated purchase price includes upgrades for 3yrs (on IOS devices, Mac owners aren't so lucky, point upgrades are chargable), after which time they offer NO upgrade, so you have to bin the hardware :'(
If its a dig at MS, bless them, Apple do not support their 12yr old OSes. Nor does anyone else I can think of, and certainly not on desktop OSes.
-
And from a 5yr old laptop :P
With 5times the power ::)
2Ghz Core Duo, 2Ghz RAM and integrated graphics against 1.3Ghz (rumoured) dual core, 1Gb RAM and a dedicated video chip in the iPhone 5s.
Not that different, is it ;)
-
Opinion stands, deal with it and move on.
...how have we gone from pc's to comparing lap top and ipad performance...? ( yes I know I started it ;D )
I don't need a pc.
The End.
-
Opinion stands, deal with it and move on.
...how have we gone from pc's to comparing lap top and ipad performance...? ( yes I know I started it ;D )
I don't need a pc.
The End.
As said, opinion valid and gratefully received.
But you know you need a PC, as AC haven't released Syncrogas for IOS devices (or anything other than Windoze), plus all those other car related pieces of software you use. So its not quite as black and white as your imply :)
But all that aside, do you think the number of units shipped is still the same as, say, 4yrs ago, but with the tablet:PC/Mac ratio being obviously higher now? Or the whole sector smaller. (That I can probably find out, via channel figures)
What I'm asking, do you think people are really just not buying (as existing PC is good enough), with just a few buying tablets as they don't currently have one? And are many tablet owners actually upgrading them regularly, or are most going to people who previously haven't owned one? (this is harder to find out, as I don't believe real figures exist)
I was kind of interested as I need to get Mum a new desktop. She doesn't want a laptop, and she sure as hell doesn't want a tablet (as a replacement for a desktop - maybe as an addition). Her 7yr old P4 desktop is knackered. I could give it a lease of life, but it won't run anything later than XP, so it would only be a temporary reprive.
So, as she likes Dell, onto their site. And basically, they sell bugger all ;D
-
Well you did say Desk top or lap top I suppose. I was talking about desk tops tbh. Ours hasn't been turned on for 8 years. It was installed when we moved in, iTunes killed it, and we never trusted it again, plus Lap tops took over at that point, and its been a convenience thing ever since. Why sit at a desk when the arm chair and family environment is right there...?
Lap top, yes that I need for the car. True enough. Although it never gets turned on otherwise. Ever.
I think your seeing a very black and white picture though. It's not an Apple
V pc picture. If Microsoft had designed the first tablet I'd have had one of those. If they'd marketed it properly of course.
Just get your Mum what SHE needs. Not what a Bill Gates perv wants her to have. ::)
-
If its a dig at MS, bless them, Apple do not support their 12yr old OSes. Nor does anyone else I can think of, and certainly not on desktop OSes.
And hence why Apple have pretty much no presence with thier OS on industrial solutions.
For me, I buy a computing device to run certain packages, the OS behind it makes not a jot of difference in reality, its just something I have to transit throguh in getting to the item I need.
Hence band per buck is king
-
Well you did say Desk top or lap top I suppose. I was talking about desk tops tbh. Ours hasn't been turned on for 8 years. It was installed when we moved in, iTunes killed it, and we never trusted it again, plus Lap tops took over at that point, and its been a convenience thing ever since. Why sit at a desk when the arm chair and family environment is right there...?
Lap top, yes that I need for the car. True enough. Although it never gets turned on otherwise. Ever.
I think your seeing a very black and white picture though. It's not an Apple
V pc picture. If Microsoft had designed the first tablet I'd have had one of those. If they'd marketed it properly of course.
Just get your Mum what SHE needs. Not what a Bill Gates perv wants her to have. ::)
Is your anti PC'ness based on what a piece of Apple software did? ;D.
I did used to say that I thought Apple purposely made their PC software indirectly blow up the PCs they ran on to convince people to buy Macs instead. Looking back, I'm still not convinced I was wrong, but I give them the benefit of the doubt, and now call it incompitence ;D. Even now, I' very wary of iTunes and Safari on non-Apple devices ;D
Apple were not the first to the tablet market. Not by a long shot. Again, MS lead the way there (although 3rd parties made and marketed the HW) with Xp Tablet Edition about a year after the release of XP IIRC. Most manufacturers thought pure tablet was too bold, so most, like Toshiba, made a normal lightweight/slim laptop with a touchscreen, but the lid swivelled so could be closed with the touchscreen exposed. OK, heavier/thicker than todays tablets, but this is over 10yrs ago.
Desktop v Laptop. I thought laptops, once powerful enough, would take over. And they mostly have. But desktops still have their uses - in my case, 2 decent screens and a decent sound system, makes my life doing serious work easier than a poxy laptop screen. RSI is another gain if you have to use it for a long time - ask Mrs Gixer (BTW, is she still on lookout for an external monitor? I have a Dell 17", but its only got VGA interface, thats otherwise destined for landfill)
-
For me, I buy a computing device to run certain packages, the OS behind it makes not a jot of difference in reality, its just something I have to transit throguh in getting to the item I need.
Indeed, which is why the application should dictate the OS, not the other way round.
-
90% of the stuff I do at home is just web browsing, so too from MrsT, so we don't need a full blown computer.
I've got a Mac Mini from 2005, still being used on my desk at the flat. It's rarely used, recently it was for property viewing as it was just a bit easier to multi-task on that. First time in 2 years it's really been used?
Often it's just an iPad on the sofa to surf with, when I have to give it back, we really miss it.
-
Just get your Mum what SHE needs. Not what a Bill Gates perv wants her to have. ::)
Indeed. I always would. SHE needs a desktop style computer, capable of running a web browser, email client and an office package thats not too hard for her to use.
Oh, and it must interface to her crappy old LaserJet 4P, which she refuses to get rid of. And be able to take her existing wireless keyboard and mouse, as she has a bee in her bonnet about cables.
-
I will add, we upgraded MotherT to Windows 8. Now for me MotherT is the target market for Windows8? All she does is surf the web, use e-mail (outlook or similar) reads the news online and does some shopping.
All basic easy to do stuff right? Well we sat her down with Win8 and she hated it... nothing appear clear or obvious. Everything appeared a struggle. Ok it's a new OS, it's to be expected but still had some serious issues with it.
She now has an iMac, no complaints, everything is far easier.
-
I will add, we upgraded MotherT to Windows 8. Now for me MotherT is the target market for Windows8? All she does is surf the web, use e-mail (outlook or similar) reads the news online and does some shopping.
All basic easy to do stuff right? Well we sat her down with Win8 and she hated it... nothing appear clear or obvious. Everything appeared a struggle. Ok it's a new OS, it's to be expected but still had some serious issues with it.
She now has an iMac, no complaints, everything is far easier.
Yeah, I've suggested to Mum that she sticks with Windows 7, even though that will only give her 6-7yrs.
Its near enough to XP, that she'll be fine with it. And it will work with her stuff.
Oh, it has to be mini tower, so she can hide the unit. But it mustn't be "one of those like <my sister's name> has where its all built into the monitor", which I can't argue with TBH...
Old dears, just can't please them ;D
-
Old dears, just can't please them ;D
I'm finding her lack of flexibility somewhat odd on this one.
OK, she's no spring chicken, having well gone over her allotted 3-score-and-10, but she's always (and still is) been keen on technology, and usually one of the first to embrace it.
She had a fax machine in the 80s, TACS mobile in the 90s, her first PC (Pentium based Compaq) in the mid 90s, internet soon after (back in the days when you paid a subscription, and for calls), DVD players and hard drive TV recorders when they came out. And has an iPhone. You get the picture...
*BUT* 5 or 6 years ago, she replaced her (shagged) B&O TV with another CRT based, non widescreen B&O crock of shite, because "she doesn't like new flat TVs").
She sends texts from her landline, rather than the easier iPhone, because thats how she likes to do it.
Same with this bloody desktop of hers. She doesn't want to change it. It was her present to herself on her 70th, so its very old, and very shagged. I can do little more to help with it. Que, dead parrot sketch. I'm not sure if its the sentimental aspect, stubborness, or the fact it was the first computer she ever bought (I'd acquired all her previous ones). But it really needed replacing a couple of years back.
Still, at least she has now come to me, off her own back, saying that she thinks it needs to be replaced. Thats some progress ;D
-
For me, I buy a computing device to run certain packages, the OS behind it makes not a jot of difference in reality, its just something I have to transit throguh in getting to the item I need.
Indeed, which is why the application should dictate the OS, not the other way round.
And hence why the apple computing devices are something I moved away from when they became nothing more than a PC inside follwoing the dropping of the RISC based Power PC processors.....as the hardware is no more capable than anything else anymore, but yet they cost a premium.
-
For me, I buy a computing device to run certain packages, the OS behind it makes not a jot of difference in reality, its just something I have to transit throguh in getting to the item I need.
Indeed, which is why the application should dictate the OS, not the other way round.
And hence why the apple computing devices are something I moved away from when they became nothing more than a PC inside follwoing the dropping of the RISC based Power PC processors.....as the hardware is no more capable than anything else anymore, but yet they cost a premium.
They have a place in life (speaking technically, not for the Gwok whoever worshippers). Some of the design packages for the Mac still outperform the equivilents on Windows/Linux/Unix.
If you have a need for these, a Mac is a viable option :)
-
Out perfrom I ssupect is the wrong phrase as given the hardware architecture and number churning capablity is the same in the core. On a RISC setup then yes.
I suspect the real reality is that there is so much legacy code in there that they have not been migrated......yet!
-
It is all a question of your needs. We had a supplier in this week which provides secure boardroom/ meeting data with all sorts of bells and whistles which will transform our meetings preparation, monitoring, follow up etc etc by moving everything for delivery to iPad from secure server. In one months time it will also be Windows 8 compatible but we don't want laptops at meetings rather a focus on the meeting docs in a well structured format not requiring stacks of paper.
looks impressive and will be a major evolution in efficiency of large board rooms, meeting groups etc
just an evolution in technology, identification of an effective use and adaptation as necessary
-
Yes but were not talking pads here, I bet the source machines/servers are either Unix based or MS
-
I've seen occasional PC magazine shoot outs where they're shocked to discover that a mac runs whinedoze better than most PC's ..... but the answer is usually that they're comparing an entry level HP/Dell/insert brand here, lap
crock o shitetop with a macbook pro, rather than one of the PC companies actual fair equivalent....
for me it's a combination of things.
1) primarily, much of the software i use for work is Mac only..... thus the choice of OS and hardware is pretty much fixed..... BUT.....
2) even if it wasn't, and there are a number of packages i use that ARE cross platform, I'd still choose a Mac, overall reliability is better, and down time , and cost of ownership is actually lower...... AND they're elegantly designed.... although that is probably the least important thing for me.... but given the choice between 2 premium performing laptops, at similar prices (say Alienware and Mac, for example) i will choose the more elegant, less boy racer looking one...... much like my choice in cars, Omega and Jag...... elegant, but powerful......
3) Experience, even now we've moved away from PPC, the OS concepts and design ethos remains similar, and i've been a mac user since , oh long long ago.... early 90's..... so i "know" how they work....
-
Out perfrom I ssupect is the wrong phrase as given the hardware architecture and number churning capablity is the same in the core. On a RISC setup then yes.
I suspect the real reality is that there is so much legacy code in there that they have not been migrated......yet!
Sorry, I meant outperform in terms of functionality and usability, rather than sheer grunt. No technical reason why, its just that traditionally the Mac platform was where much of this was first developed, and the ports are rarely that successful.
-
overall reliability is better,
In a bygone era (XP), yeah, thats the advantage of a closed system, is the vendor controls everything, compared to a open system which is a free for all. With driver signing being more prominent (and enforced on 64bit - one of Windows 64bit few advanatges or 32bit), reliability is pretty solid on Windows now (ignoring XP shite, its old, it needs to go). When was the last Win7 crash you saw?
and down time ,
As per above. Its pretty solid.
and cost of ownership is actually lower......
Disagree, although specifics can skew general figures. But look at lease+support contracts for both ;)
AND they're elegantly designed....
Yup, fully agree, they certainly are well designed (visually) with ladyboys in mind :P
-
I'm not joining in this discussion. It's going nowhere.
Mate of mine went to pc world this afternoon. There were two...yes, two...tower units on display.
Just saying.
-
It is the way if things. One day we'll all be board of mobile devices and move on to the next big thing... ....Head mounted projectors, or summat daft.
-
I personally agree with mr gixer in that we'll all be using mobile devices a lot sooner that the older members perhaps would like. my personal favourites are the large gaming tower cases that you can get my bear paws inside and load up with fans to keep cool ! laptops are useful for portability and powerful enough for a decent sized screen for my tired old eyes to work with. tablets, I think will come eventually in all sizes, shapes and flavours, probably within the next 5-10yrs, eventually superceding both laptops and desktops of all shapes and flavours. !
-
Quick question for tablet owners...
Are you seriously thinking of upgrading your tablet (not just drooling over the latest one, but seriously considering laying down your wedge in before the year is out)? Or is your existing one "good enough" to not warrant the outlay?
TIA
-
My tablet is just fine for my needs, but I don't do anything fancy. Bit of browsing/banking/email. So.....I will upgrade when it goes pop....not before.
-
Mine suits me :y only gripes are the lack of a car charger, and noone seems to do a hdmi/micro hdmi to 3 lead rca adapter :-\
-
Quick question for tablet owners...
Are you seriously thinking of upgrading your tablet (not just drooling over the latest one, but seriously considering laying down your wedge in before the year is out)? Or is your existing one "good enough" to not warrant the outlay?
TIA
Mini is good enough for me.
Although if they upgrade the chip and screen... Nah, I'm happy with it.
(The ipad one was slow and crashed a lot. Actually, it just crashed a lot. Normal sized iPads are too big, IMO. Too heavy.)
So, no! :)