Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: chrisgixer on 16 October 2013, 12:37:33
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...for taking the time to come and look at my garage electrics. 40mile round trip and wouldn't take any money. :-[ bless him.
Your looking well though mate, so fingers crossed as always with the health issues. Sounds very hopeful though :)
Garage wiring doesn't appear to be too bad. It is fused in all the right places, so won't cause any problems except blow a 3amp fuse if over loaded by the likes of a welder. The problem though, is that the whole loop has been taken from a lighting circuit, as I understand it.
So the fix is to drill through from the kitchen to the garage and run the correct cable from the kitchen plug sockets.
Then I can run the welder from the garage. :)
Thanks again AndyRoid. (Stick the fuel money on the bill for the consumer unit ;) ) :y
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Given that you can't run a spur from a spur (IIRC), would it be worth extending the ring main into garage? Or more preferably if the CU is convenient, its own ring main?
Was just think of the future, as you're bound to want more leccy stuff. Boys with toys, and all that.
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Given that you can't run a spur from a spur (IIRC), would it be worth extending the ring main into garage? Or more preferably if the CU is convenient, its own ring main?
Was just think of the future, as you're bound to want more leccy stuff. Boys with toys, and all that.
I think that's the solution, one way or another :-\ I'm sure AndyRoid will be along to explain, but there's two options.
1 extend the ring main (not sure that's the correct terminology) from the adjacent kitchen.
2 run the garage to its own circuit from a replacement consumer unit. The cu is sited in the cloakroom, also adjacent to the garage, so easy done.
We just need to decide which option based in costs. The cloakroom is in the middle or re decoration so nows the time really.
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Given the electrical disturbance the welder caused, obviously I'd prefer the garage to be on its own circuit.
Or use both options. Keeping the welder separate from all else.
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Given that you can't run a spur from a spur (IIRC), would it be worth extending the ring main into garage? Or more preferably if the CU is convenient, its own ring main?
Was just think of the future, as you're bound to want more leccy stuff. Boys with toys, and all that.
I think that's the solution, one way or another :-\ I'm sure AndyRoid will be along to explain, but there's two options.
1 extend the ring main (not sure that's the correct terminology) from the adjacent kitchen.
2 run the garage to its own circuit from a replacement consumer unit. The cu is sited in the cloakroom, also adjacent to the garage, so easy done.
We just need to decide which option based in costs. The cloakroom is in the middle or re decoration so nows the time really.
Ah, if CU is there, sounds like thats the way to go. Presumably no blanks in the CU, so it needs replacement :'(
Although I know it can take it, I think most kitchen ring mains have enough high power kit hanging off them (kettles, toasters, coffee makers etc etc)
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Given that you can't run a spur from a spur (IIRC), would it be worth extending the ring main into garage? Or more preferably if the CU is convenient, its own ring main?
Was just think of the future, as you're bound to want more leccy stuff. Boys with toys, and all that.
I think that's the solution, one way or another :-\ I'm sure AndyRoid will be along to explain, but there's two options.
1 extend the ring main (not sure that's the correct terminology) from the adjacent kitchen.
2 run the garage to its own circuit from a replacement consumer unit. The cu is sited in the cloakroom, also adjacent to the garage, so easy done.
We just need to decide which option based in costs. The cloakroom is in the middle or re decoration so nows the time really.
Ah, if CU is there, sounds like thats the way to go. Presumably no blanks in the CU, so it needs replacement :'(
Although I know it can take it, I think most kitchen ring mains have enough high power kit hanging off them (kettles, toasters, coffee makers etc etc)
Or a spur?
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Given that you can't run a spur from a spur (IIRC), would it be worth extending the ring main into garage? Or more preferably if the CU is convenient, its own ring main?
Was just think of the future, as you're bound to want more leccy stuff. Boys with toys, and all that.
I think that's the solution, one way or another :-\ I'm sure AndyRoid will be along to explain, but there's two options.
1 extend the ring main (not sure that's the correct terminology) from the adjacent kitchen.
2 run the garage to its own circuit from a replacement consumer unit. The cu is sited in the cloakroom, also adjacent to the garage, so easy done.
We just need to decide which option based in costs. The cloakroom is in the middle or re decoration so nows the time really.
Ah, if CU is there, sounds like thats the way to go. Presumably no blanks in the CU, so it needs replacement :'(
Although I know it can take it, I think most kitchen ring mains have enough high power kit hanging off them (kettles, toasters, coffee makers etc etc)
Cu is the old wired fuse type. No trips.
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First find a sparky who can sign the job off,then fit a nice new split cu for the whole house.
2.5 be fine for drills,grinders etc. 1.5 for lighting. Run the garage as a separate circut maybe use 8.0 as the supply to a small cu for the garage then as before 2.5 for plugs 1.5 for lights.or just run some 10 straight from the cooker feed with a double socket on the end :y top bodge
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I'm thinking along the lines of running the small garage tools off the kitchen/downstairs ring main.
Then run a separate circuit off the new cu for heavy stuff like a welder, also to the garage, independently from everything else. I presume?
So the welder can't inter fear with the circuit to other stuff on the downstairs ring main, like the cooker, but also the tv and home cinema stuff, presumably. And if she turns the cooker on, that won't mess with the welder either.
The violence of the welder draw was enough to dim and flash some lights I've run of a plug socket in the kitchen. The flash was caused each time the welder arked on, which is very rapid. I don't want common electrical house hold appliances exposed to that sort of current draw.
It can't be good for them, can it? I'm thinking better safe anyway.
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In my case the garage runs off a length of 10mm SWA to it's own CU (separate rings for sockets, lights, single run to a 20A commando socket etc) and that 10mm SWA is fed from the old cooker trip in my main CU (old CU, Martin might remember .. I can't recall the name but it's breakers that pre-date MCB/ELCBs) as I don't have an electric cooker..
The compressor turning on in the garage still makes the lights in the house go 'blip' ...
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Oh, and it will also need a length of armoured cable to the shed, laid along the floor, as opposed to along the top of a short length of fence. ::) ;D
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In my case the garage runs off a length of 10mm SWA to it's own CU (separate rings for sockets, lights, single run to a 20A commando socket etc) and that 10mm SWA is fed from the old cooker trip in my main CU (old CU, Martin might remember .. I can't recall the name but it's breakers that pre-date MCB/ELCBs) as I don't have an electric cooker..
The compressor turning on in the garage still makes the lights in the house go 'blip' ...
So better on a separate circuit, is what your saying? :)
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In my case the garage runs off a length of 10mm SWA to it's own CU (separate rings for sockets, lights, single run to a 20A commando socket etc) and that 10mm SWA is fed from the old cooker trip in my main CU (old CU, Martin might remember .. I can't recall the name but it's breakers that pre-date MCB/ELCBs) as I don't have an electric cooker..
The compressor turning on in the garage still makes the lights in the house go 'blip' ...
So better on a separate circuit, is what your saying? :)
Mine is on a separate circuit ;) I'm saying even though that's how it's wired in I still see the garage affect the rest of the house..
Having said that my household wiring is old (1970) and the main CU & breakers are of the same vintage.. Someone who knows their arse from their elbow when it comes to wiring (i.e. AndyRoid, not me ;D) will know if your situation would be different to mine.
But I suspect, if everything comes back to the same ultimate pair of meter tails and ground spike, you'd still see the welder make lights flicker? Circuits in household wiring aren't truly electrically isolated from each other I don't think.. (all fed from the same bus bar, ultimately)
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Ah, I see, good I'm glad you posted. I wasn't sure. Thankyou.
As you say, see what AndyRoid says. :y
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Ah, I see, good I'm glad you posted. I wasn't sure. Thankyou.
As you say, see what AndyRoid says. :y
BTW, the house I sent you a link to has a 35' long garage .. same dodgy 1970s wiring as my house, though ;D
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Now wondering if the welder is too big, or borderline, for household electrics.
Although I'm sure Shakengs didn't have a problem and somebody would have said. By now. Do sure its fine. :)
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Ah, I see, good I'm glad you posted. I wasn't sure. Thankyou.
As you say, see what AndyRoid says. :y
BTW, the house I sent you a link to has a 35' long garage .. same dodgy 1970s wiring as my house, though ;D
;D
Yes that discussion did come up. If we move , and the implications. But it needs doing. Tbh.
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I'm thinking along the lines of running the small garage tools off the kitchen/downstairs ring main.
Then run a separate circuit off the new cu for heavy stuff like a welder, also to the garage, independently from everything else. I presume?
Why overcomplicate things? Just run a separate ring main round the garage. No need for anything to come off the kitchen ring then. No need for any other supply into the garage save for the lighting circuit, which is presumably already there.
If the welder is fed from this ring, it's powered straight from the consumer unit, so you will already minimise its' influence on other devices in the house.
So the welder can't inter fear with the circuit to other stuff on the downstairs ring main, like the cooker, but also the tv and home cinema stuff, presumably. And if she turns the cooker on, that won't mess with the welder either.
The violence of the welder draw was enough to dim and flash some lights I've run of a plug socket in the kitchen. The flash was caused each time the welder arked on, which is very rapid. I don't want common electrical house hold appliances exposed to that sort of current draw.
It can't be good for them, can it? I'm thinking better safe anyway.
Other items won't be exposed to the current draw of the welder (which is no more than an electric kettle or fan heater in any case). All that is happening is that the mains voltage is dropping slightly due to the resistance of the supply, so it's not a case that it won't be good for anything.. just noticeable. The fact is, loads like a kettle or a fan heater are generally turned on and off less frequently than a welding arc, so their effect on the voltage is not noticed.
If the welder was previously fed from a lighting circuit as implied, I'm very surprised that the fuse didn't blow, and not at all surprised that the effect was noticeable, especially to anything fed from that same lighting circuit. :o
Even with the detailed updates to the wiring, though, it's still possible that you'll get a little flickering of the lights when welding due to the resistance of the incoming supply. There's not a lot you can do about that, though.
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Ah, I see, good I'm glad you posted. I wasn't sure. Thankyou.
As you say, see what AndyRoid says. :y
BTW, the house I sent you a link to has a 35' long garage .. same dodgy 1970s wiring as my house, though ;D
;D
Yes that discussion did come up. If we move , and the implications. But it needs doing. Tbh.
I should add we've been looking at moving for a few years now, and we're no nearer.
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Ah, I see, good I'm glad you posted. I wasn't sure. Thankyou.
As you say, see what AndyRoid says. :y
BTW, the house I sent you a link to has a 35' long garage .. same dodgy 1970s wiring as my house, though ;D
;D
Yes that discussion did come up. If we move , and the implications. But it needs doing. Tbh.
Please buy that place.. at least that way I'd know how many more clapped out pristine vehicles would be living down my road.. ;D I'm hoping whoever buys it doesn't turn up with five cars and nowhere to park them :(
Anyway, I digress from your thread..
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You can't beat a 35' long garage :y (although mine is only about 30, IIRC. :-[ )
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To Kev
It's really really easy to do either, by the looks. The kitchen socket is less than a foot away from the light socket in the garage, just the other side of the wall. Drill a hole, feed cable, job done. Its purely to by pass the lighting spec cable, that feeds the whole garage(protected by a 3amp fuse).
Likewise, the cu is two or three feet away from the garage, tother side of the wall.
So which ever is easiest? :-\
Welder has never run off the garage circuit. As your advice, I ran a single plug extension lead to the house ring main, those lights happen to be on that ring main. I see what your saying re draw though, as its a reduction of power devided away, to the wealder..?
I still don't like it though, could the welder spike?
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You can't beat a 35' long garage :y (although mine is only about 30, IIRC. :-[ )
Indeed, but yours is also wider than standard too. :y
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Ps, I don't want to say too much re electrics, in case I'm talking 'dangle berries' and lead you all off in the wrong direction.
See what AndyRoid says. :)
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I'd do it either one way, or the other. Rather than some sockets on a garage ring main, and some on kitchen ring. Thats liable to bite you in the arse at some point, when you forget whats wired from where. Not just on powering big devices, but also when it comes to isolating sockets.
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You can't beat a 35' long garage :y (although mine is only about 30, IIRC. :-[ )
Yep one of mine is around 35' x 10' internal, and unfortunately full of swmbo's crap + workbenches and storage, the other is standardish size and has a large chest freezer in it, plus loads of car spares, larger tools (spray gear etc) and my TR. Must sneak swmbo's estate some time and quietly clear out her crap - think she'll notice a skip in the drive ???
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Why overcomplicate things? Just run a separate ring main round the garage.
There are no spare ways left in the existing board unfortunately, so that really only leaves the two options Chris mentioned earlier.
Option one (extend the kitchen ring) is very much easily & cheaply done, but as Chris was already contemplating having a new CU (and the cloakroom is halfway through redecorating), it would be quite easy to get a dedicated feed to the garage with minimal cosmetic damage and also give the added protection of an RCD throughout the house.
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Did I describe correctly? Good lord ;D
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Did I describe correctly? Good lord ;D
My cheap arc welder has a 13A plug on it, but to use the highest current settings you need a 16A plug and socket, I presume this where it is designed for 16A sockets in Europe. I don't know if your has similar restrictions, if so, it might be worth fitting a 16A socket.
If you are looking to move in the future now might be a good time to update your CU as my next door neighbour had a few problems where a structural survey was done on the house with the biggest negative that this was marked down as old fashioned and potentially dangerous where it was an old fused unit with no RCD and he had to drop the price by £500, so the new owners could use it to replace it. If I had Part P I would have changed it for him, but as I haven't I couldn't.
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I changed the CU in the last house (before part P) myself. The Cu itself did half the job. It was an old wood and bakelite one. I took the cover off to add a circuit for a new kitchen and the wood frame fell apart leaving it hanging off the wall by the wiring. :o
Went straight out and bought a modern RCD protected split load job.
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Now wondering if the welder is too big, or borderline, for household electrics.
Although I'm sure Shakengs didn't have a problem and somebody would have said. By now. Do sure its fine. :)
Never had any issues with it, and used it to rebuild a Beetle, including welding bits into the floorpan. My garage is on a separate cb from the main CU, house wiring is mainly '70's, with a few " additions" ::) ::) ::)