Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Webby the Bear on 28 October 2013, 10:53:52
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Hi guys,
As above. Ma and Pa are potentially looking at the above. Not a definite by any means but just looking for some info for them.
I've done a little research already and it appears the petrol versions give really poor fuel economy (16mpg urban) which is fair enough for a car of that size but they want better than that. so i've looked at the diesel and figures look much healthier.
i've also been around the net and sadly there doesnt seem to be a proper owners forum. there's an off-shoot of a vw forum that has about 3 members! ;D
So. does anyone know if there are common faults, is it prone to breaking down (i assume not), and in general any negatives you guys know of (especially from the owners of such things). also i note they are all turbo diesels. are the turbos failure points?
cheers guys :)
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I think after a certain year, they changed the shock design. So if one failed all 4 needed to be replaced, but recall someone saying there were ways around that :-\
Will follow this with interest, but like other cars its lack of decent technical forum puts me off. :(
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Iirc pscocoa said the shock issue doesn't affect post 04 cars. As they changed shock supplier at the factory at that point.
I'm sure he'll be along. :)
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I think after a certain year, they changed the shock design. So if one failed all 4 needed to be replaced, but recall someone saying there were ways around that :-\
Will follow this with interest, but like other cars its lack of decent technical forum puts me off. :(
Couldnt agree more. the fact there's not really a forum of any kind is a real concern.
plus i looked in to servicing costs. someone posted up (for example) £1k for discs and pads. looked on ECP for parts and they're a reasonable price for parts.
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Iirc pscocoa said the shock issue doesn't affect post 04 cars. As they changed shock supplier at the factory at that point.
I'm sure he'll be along. :)
Thats comforting to know. ma and pa are looking at around 09.
are these chain driven btw? with no timing belt service needed? that would be another bonus
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They're chain driven, but all three chains are at the back of the block, which meanbs engine out when the guides wear, which with 20k service intervals is highly likely ::) Also, the diesel parts are hideously expensive, injectors being £500 a pop (there are 6, and hopefully they're more reliable than the ones fitted to the 2.0TDi), fuel pumps are 2-4 Omegas worth as well :-\
They do look to be alot of car though, but as said, non existent support or knowledge outside the dealer network :-\
You might also ask yourself how many VW dealers are actually capable of looking after them properly given their relative rarity :-\
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Hi guys,
As above. Ma and Pa are potentially looking at the above. Not a definite by any means but just looking for some info for them.
I've done a little research already and it appears the petrol versions give really poor fuel economy (16mpg urban) which is fair enough for a car of that size but they want better than that. so i've looked at the diesel and figures look much healthier.
i've also been around the net and sadly there doesnt seem to be a proper owners forum. there's an off-shoot of a vw forum that has about 3 members! ;D
So. does anyone know if there are common faults, is it prone to breaking down (i assume not), and in general any negatives you guys know of (especially from the owners of such things). also i note they are all turbo diesels. are the turbos failure points?
cheers guys :)
Webby - there is a VW Phaeton Forum - many US members which may have influenced your view. The Phaeton was discontinued in the US about 8 years ago hence all the activity over there on keeping them going as well as a lot of our US friends have been Bentley customising them. The W12 and W8s they love over there are obviously seriously thirsty.
In Europe we have the sensible ones i.e. the V6 diesel - they are still big heavy cars at 2.5 tonnes or so with 4 wheel drive, 2 batteries, lots of toys BUT I regularly get 37 mpg on a run at decent speeds. I do not use it round town - Omega and Insignia for that job. Maintenance is reasonable but I also have a warranty at £400 a year just in case I get unlucky with a big item. Insurance is pretty good as well about £430 pa, road tax £480 or similar.
There is a planned UK GTG which happens this year on 23 November - St Albans way, Doz who used to be on OOF has gone to Phaeton from Omega and hopes to be there, Chrisgixer is threatening to turn up but it will be a different experience. No-one ever has any work to do on them so the meet is usually about enabling or disabling features with a VAGCOM - there are loads of features not covered in handbook and people work them out and post on website.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/forumdisplay.php?112-Phaeton (http://forums.vwvortex.com/forumdisplay.php?112-Phaeton)
The suspension issues date back to the pre 2004 models where the air suspension controller was replaced in later models and huge expense if you got unlucky on an older version when parts were discontinued.
Happy to fill in on any specifics. Mine is 4 years old (I bought it new) and no problems at all touch wood - 37000 miles on rear tyres - coming up to MOT but they still look ok. Fronts did 27000 miles. Service is very reasonable compared to the BMW Merc etc
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Thanks Taxi and PSC.
Firstly, the chain drive.... i'll check Autodata but is there a schedule time for replacement chain/guides/tensioners? or are they SUPPOSED to be sealed for life? obviously oil changes being important.
thanks for that forum link. ill check that out tonight.
would you say its a car that can be serviced by the DIYer? i'd prob be looking for bigger jobs to be done by the dealer.
do they do a workshop manual? or even a haynes?
PSC, i trust you take yours to your local dealer?
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I'll say 3 things..
those cars second hands are very very slow, so you can be a potential last owner.. (at least here)
I wouldnt like to push a 2.5 tonnes car when it fails completely..
what wrong with a 4 pot ordinary any sedan for elderly people..
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I'll say 3 things..
those cars second hands are very very slow, so you can be a potential last owner.. (at least here)
I wouldnt like to push a 2.5 tonnes car when it fails completely..
what wrong with a 4 pot ordinary any sedan for elderly people..
What makes you think Webby's folks are elderly? ;D They might be though I suppose.... :-\ ::) ;D
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http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_350.pdf (http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_350.pdf)
Diesel engine spec - see above. I would not like to mess with it - no need to so far.
Best to take a look at some of the US comments they undertake some very large jobs on them and post the pics.
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http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_350.pdf (http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_350.pdf)
Diesel engine spec - see above. I would not like to mess with it - no need to so far.
Best to take a look at some of the US comments they undertake some very large jobs on them and post the pics.
Thanks for the info PSC. VERY much appreciated :y
Would you be worried about attempting oil changes, filter changes and the like etc? Would really want to be able to do at least the basics especially oil changes.
I may post some queries up on that forum. especially re the chain drive. when i get on autodata ill try and get as much info back on this thread if it'll be useful to other folks :)
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Woo. Swirl flaps.
No instances of those failing? Like in the BMW's ? (I'm sure we would've heard if there was an issue)
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My understanding of chain drive is its a sealed for life unit without a specified service interval. however thats assuming its had a good life regarding oil changes. not sure where youd stand if this was neglected.
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I'll say 3 things..
those cars second hands are very very slow, so you can be a potential last owner.. (at least here)
I wouldnt like to push a 2.5 tonnes car when it fails completely..
what wrong with a 4 pot ordinary any sedan for elderly people..
What makes you think Webby's folks are elderly? ;D They might be though I suppose.... :-\ ::) ;D
yep..
when I become old, phaeton or similiar cars will never enter my probability list.. instead I would prefer a low cons, low tax, easy parking shopping trolley.. :)
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My understanding of chain drive is its a sealed for life unit without a specified service interval. however thats assuming its had a good life regarding oil changes. not sure where youd stand if this was neglected.
I think that's the point Al is making really. 20k service intervals for oil is stretching it, to say the least. I'm sure if an owner adopted a more sensible oil change interval of every 5 or 10k, they'd be greatly decreasing the chances of cam chain issues.
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Webby, if you dont want any headaches for you and them, go for honda,mazda models.. :y
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My understanding of chain drive is its a sealed for life unit without a specified service interval. however thats assuming its had a good life regarding oil changes. not sure where youd stand if this was neglected.
I think that's the point Al is making really. 20k service intervals for oil is stretching it, to say the least. I'm sure if an owner adopted a more sensible oil change interval of every 5 or 10k, they'd be greatly decreasing the chances of cam chain issues.
Depends on how much damage has been done beforehand, though. They are not getting any newer, so guessing mileages are getting high. Can't see a first owner ever lifting the bonnet, so any will at best have FSH, which means a change every 20k if the stealers could be bothered. :o
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Woo. Swirl flaps.
No instances of those failing? Like in the BMW's ? (I'm sure we would've heard if there was an issue)
You say that, but are the cars common enough for issues to be raised, or do people just dump them for summat else :-\
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Two observations.
1) Chains and guides do wear, stretch and fail, unles VAG have some magic new space material it can and will eventualy happen.
2) DPF......if short journeys, the diesel is a no no
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Webby, if you dont want any headaches for you and them, go for honda,mazda models.. :y
No experience with Honda, but Mazda are indeed quite reliable. BUT, if they do fail, parts are massively expensive. £390 for a maf for an example of first hand experience.
As an Omege replacement I have two options. Phaeton or vxr8.
I still have sporting requirements from my cars though, so the vxr8 is favourite. But I would be very happy with a Phaeton. Very happy indeed. :)
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As an Omege replacement Ihave two options. Phaeton or vxr8.
Istill have sporting requirements from my cars though, so the vxr8 is favourite. But I would be very happy with a Phaeton. Very happy indeed.
Inspite of the fuel requirements, the VXR8 is the way forward, for reasons mentioned in tother thread :y
Out of those two, it will almost certainly have long term reliability, and cost you less in the long run :y
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VXR8 is a great drifting car..... have been in one whilst being drifted. :o :o :o (on my Ferrari experience day before you get concerned ;))
So one thing to note off the bat is that it needs to have evidence of oil changes.
Am i to trust that the waterpump is not driven by the chain? And if the chain is at the back of the block i'm thinking the aux belt will still be at the front?
Does anyone know about the turbos on VWs? i presume they're reliable?
may also contact VW to see what they'd charge for certain things :)
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A few mentioned the oil change - it is not quite as simple as 20k intervals.
As said I use mine for long journeys now and then. This usage reduces oil qulaity and so my servicing is set to 10,000 miles or 1 year as opposed to long life.
There is in any case an oil quality sensor which will trigger if the usage pattern is not compatible with the service mode. If car used almost daily for good runs getting fully warm then long life should be ok.
So mine has been serviced at 10000 mile intervals (incl oil and filter change).
I posted an old V6 diesel spec - they have upgraded the engines.
If Webby's parents are going for a 2009 I would try and and see if you can get a 2010 Facelift model - also known as GP3. Mine is GP2, there was a facelift in 2007 known as GP1 and the rest (pre 2007) known as GP0. At least that is how I think it works.
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I'm tempted by a Honda Leg-end when the Omega finally goes tit's up.
Bit dull though. :-\
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Hondas are a bit dull. imo. but they are bullet proof.
i love the phaeton personally cos its massive (like big cars and feel safe), it has ALL the toys and is relatively dirt cheap compared to their original purchase prices.
just got a bit of research to do for them but this has been a help especially with PSC providing details of an owners forum :)
regarding them being slow..... that bothers me/my folks not in the slightest. quiet luxury is the order of the day :y
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I'm tempted by a Honda Leg-end when the Omega finally goes tit's up.
Bit dull though. :-\
I've been mulling over a Suburu Legacy..... :-\
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As an Omege replacement Ihave two options. Phaeton or vxr8.
Istill have sporting requirements from my cars though, so the vxr8 is favourite. But I would be very happy with a Phaeton. Very happy indeed.
Inspite of the fuel requirements, the VXR8 is the way forward, for reasons mentioned in tother thread :y
Out of those two, it will almost certainly have long term reliability, and cost you less in the long run :y
For us maybe. But I can't see Webbys folks choosing one over a Phaeton. Can you?
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As an Omege replacement Ihave two options. Phaeton or vxr8.
Istill have sporting requirements from my cars though, so the vxr8 is favourite. But I would be very happy with a Phaeton. Very happy indeed.
Inspite of the fuel requirements, the VXR8 is the way forward, for reasons mentioned in tother thread :y
Out of those two, it will almost certainly have long term reliability, and cost you less in the long run :y
For us maybe. But I can't see Webbys folks choosing one over a Phaeton. Can you?
:y As mentioned above... quiet luxury. And if i'm honest, i'd have a phaeton over the VXR8 any day..... i'm getting older too and having a car that bellows everytime you get in would annoy me. (i know that sounds old but i dont care lol)
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As an Omege replacement Ihave two options. Phaeton or vxr8.
Istill have sporting requirements from my cars though, so the vxr8 is favourite. But I would be very happy with a Phaeton. Very happy indeed.
Inspite of the fuel requirements, the VXR8 is the way forward, for reasons mentioned in tother thread :y
Out of those two, it will almost certainly have long term reliability, and cost you less in the long run :y
For us maybe. But I can't see Webbys folks choosing one over a Phaeton. Can you?
:y As mentioned above... quiet luxury. And if i'm honest, i'd have a phaeton over the VXR8 any day..... i'm getting older too and having a car that bellows everytime you get in would annoy me. (i know that sounds old but i dont care lol)
Ooh that's a bit unfair on the vxr8, but I tend to agree. I'm starting to smell of wee a bit too Webster. ;)
There's a lot of annoyances in life. Sitting in a Phaeton would do a good job of blocking out most of them.
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;D ;D ;D Wouldnt say i'm starting to smell of wee. but i'm using the toilet more often, need to be in bed by 9pm and am rather fond of nights in in front of the tv :-[
re the vxr8..... it was quality being hurled round the track like a nut case. but for the reasons above i now like to waft to and from places
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The Phaeton is very quick - even the V6 diesel as some arse found out in a Range Rover trying to cut everyone up. He was very annoyed and tried to undertake - forget it mate...
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The Phaeton is very quick - even the V6 diesel as some arse found out in a Range Rover trying to cut everyone up. He was very annoyed and tried to undertake - forget it mate...
i imagine that like the omega they're poor off the line but immense at acceleration above 60.
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plus guys, how noisy are these diseasal versions? and whats the best diesel engine? anyone also know what this blue motion thing is :-\
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oh and forgive my stupidity (well, lack of experience with diesels) but where would the DPF be located? and if i could take it out and inspect presumably this would give a good idea of how well its been working (or not so)
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You need to answer the question.....is the vehilce going to do short journeys?
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Webby, if you dont want any headaches for you and them, go for honda,mazda models.. :y
No experience with Honda, but Mazda are indeed quite reliable. BUT, if they do fail, parts are massively expensive. £390 for a maf for an example of first hand experience.
As an Omege replacement I have two options. Phaeton or vxr8.
I still have sporting requirements from my cars though, so the vxr8 is favourite. But I would be very happy with a Phaeton. Very happy indeed. :)
although not small, Accords are ultra and sedan civics surprisingly reliable.. here you can buy Honda civics with BRC lpg set and 6 years warranty :o my friends who bought those nearly forget about servicing ???
agreed with the prices though mazda especially 6 and accord part prices not cheap.. :-\
honestly Phaeton would never be in my list.. its too big for a madly crowded city.. and too complex engines.. there are many to go wrong even if I ignore the fuel prices..
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You need to answer the question.....is the vehilce going to do short journeys?
it more than likely will be but long enough to get it up to temp.
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Then the diesel is of no use to them.
And in fact will not be economical and will have issues with the DPF clogging up.
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Webby, if you dont want any headaches for you and them, go for honda,mazda models.. :y
No experience with Honda, but Mazda are indeed quite reliable. BUT, if they do fail, parts are massively expensive. £390 for a maf for an example of first hand experience.
As an Omege replacement I have two options. Phaeton or vxr8.
I still have sporting requirements from my cars though, so the vxr8 is favourite. But I would be very happy with a Phaeton. Very happy indeed. :)
although not small, Accords are ultra and sedan civics surprisingly reliable.. here you can buy Honda civics with BRC lpg set and 6 years warranty :o my friends who bought those nearly forget about servicing ???
agreed with the prices though mazda especially 6 and accord part prices not cheap.. :-\
honestly Phaeton would never be in my list.. its too big for a madly crowded city.. and too complex engines.. there are many to go wrong even if I ignore the fuel prices..
whilst i completely agree that hondas are bulletproof i think we're talking about two different gulfs of car.
the pheaton is a luxury car and is partly why they want one after all they START at £48k. and we're lucky enough in this climate (from a buyers point of view) where they depreciate so heavily that theyre affordable to the likes of my ma and pa.
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I think now its time to ask,
all services and mechanics here advice that when you reach destination point dont stop the engine (diesels) immediately , instead wait for turbo too cool down for some time.. is that correct ?
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The issue is that diesels do naff mileage on shorter runs (remember also they take MUCH longer to get to temperature than petrols).
Worse still, the DPF has to regenerate at regular intervals (circa 1k miles) and for this to happen it needs to be:
1) Upto temperature
2) Driven at idealy greater than 2000rpm for circa 10 minutes
Failure to do so results in the DPF clogging up needing major work to sort out.
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Then the diesel is of no use to them.
And in fact will not be economical and will have issues with the DPF clogging up.
Hmm interesting. once again, Mark, ignoring my ignorance..... are DPFs easily changeable ilke an oil filter?
or would you suggest the petrol version is the way forward 9assuming they can cope with the 16 urban mpg's :o)
on the plus side if they had the petrol i'd feel more comfortable around it as sadly not done much work on diesels
:)
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Webby, if you dont want any headaches for you and them, go for honda,mazda models.. :y
No experience with Honda, but Mazda are indeed quite reliable. BUT, if they do fail, parts are massively expensive. £390 for a maf for an example of first hand experience.
As an Omege replacement I have two options. Phaeton or vxr8.
I still have sporting requirements from my cars though, so the vxr8 is favourite. But I would be very happy with a Phaeton. Very happy indeed. :)
although not small, Accords are ultra and sedan civics surprisingly reliable.. here you can buy Honda civics with BRC lpg set and 6 years warranty :o my friends who bought those nearly forget about servicing ???
agreed with the prices though mazda especially 6 and accord part prices not cheap.. :-\
honestly Phaeton would never be in my list.. its too big for a madly crowded city.. and too complex engines.. there are many to go wrong even if I ignore the fuel prices..
whilst i completely agree that hondas are bulletproof i think we're talking about two different gulfs of car.
the pheaton is a luxury car and is partly why they want one after all they START at £48k. and we're lucky enough in this climate (from a buyers point of view) where they depreciate so heavily that theyre affordable to the likes of my ma and pa.
point is Webby, an affordable car does not mean low maintenance costs :-\
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sorry, must type faster :)
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Webby, if you dont want any headaches for you and them, go for honda,mazda models.. :y
No experience with Honda, but Mazda are indeed quite reliable. BUT, if they do fail, parts are massively expensive. £390 for a maf for an example of first hand experience.
As an Omege replacement I have two options. Phaeton or vxr8.
I still have sporting requirements from my cars though, so the vxr8 is favourite. But I would be very happy with a Phaeton. Very happy indeed. :)
although not small, Accords are ultra and sedan civics surprisingly reliable.. here you can buy Honda civics with BRC lpg set and 6 years warranty :o my friends who bought those nearly forget about servicing ???
agreed with the prices though mazda especially 6 and accord part prices not cheap.. :-\
honestly Phaeton would never be in my list.. its too big for a madly crowded city.. and too complex engines.. there are many to go wrong even if I ignore the fuel prices..
whilst i completely agree that hondas are bulletproof i think we're talking about two different gulfs of car.
the pheaton is a luxury car and is partly why they want one after all they START at £48k. and we're lucky enough in this climate (from a buyers point of view) where they depreciate so heavily that theyre affordable to the likes of my ma and pa.
point is Webby, an affordable car doesn not mean low maintenance costs :-\
completely agree mate.... hence the thread on the search for info to see what i can do and cant :y
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I think now its time to ask,
all services and mechanics here advice that when you reach destination point dont stop the engine (diesels) immediately , instead wait for turbo too cool down for some time.. is that correct ?
Older systems yes Cem, although not for longer than 30 seconds or so or it can make things worse (oil seeping past the turbo bearings for example).
The idea being that it gives the turbo an opportunity to cool down off load.
However, diesel exhaust temps are pretty low anyway so not really an issue with diesels plus the performance petrol engines have systems built in to support more controlled cool down and again the exhaust gas temperature are often much less (gone are the days of Saab Turbos with see throguh bright orange stinking hot manifolds).
The sensible/practical approach is to do your last mile or so of your journey with a lighter foot.
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I think now its time to ask,
all services and mechanics here advice that when you reach destination point dont stop the engine (diesels) immediately , instead wait for turbo too cool down for some time.. is that correct ?
Older systems yes Cem, although not for longer than 30 seconds or so or it can make things worse (oil seeping past the turbo bearings for example).
The idea being that it gives the turbo an opportunity to cool down off load.
However, diesel exhaust temps are pretty low anyway so not really an issue with diesels plus the performance petrol engines have systems built in to support more controlled cool down and again the exhaust gas temperature are often much less (gone are the days of Saab Turbos with see throguh bright orange stinking hot manifolds).
The sensible/practical approach is to do your last mile or so of your journey with a lighter foot.
thanks for the info :) :y
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There is something about Phaeton, still something puts me off. Interior is not quite right somehow, I find the same with all VW's, lacking soul maybe? (just personal thing) - Dunno, maybe I need to drive one. :-\
Lot of car for the money: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201310229396126/sort/default/usedcars/maximum-mileage/up_to_80000_miles/fuel-type/diesel/model/phaeton/make/volkswagen/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/onesearchad/new/radius/1500/postcode/w39ej/page/1?logcode=p (http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201310229396126/sort/default/usedcars/maximum-mileage/up_to_80000_miles/fuel-type/diesel/model/phaeton/make/volkswagen/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/onesearchad/new/radius/1500/postcode/w39ej/page/1?logcode=p)
Can get a Jag diesel for about same age miles, I just feel there would be more of a "DIY" attitude with these.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201309028583014/sort/default/usedcars/maximum-mileage/up_to_80000_miles/fuel-type/diesel/model/xj/make/jaguar/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/onesearchad/new/radius/1500/postcode/w39ej/page/1?logcode=p (http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201309028583014/sort/default/usedcars/maximum-mileage/up_to_80000_miles/fuel-type/diesel/model/xj/make/jaguar/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/onesearchad/new/radius/1500/postcode/w39ej/page/1?logcode=p)
I've driven one, be it a V8, so think I need to try a Phaeton at some point :)
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Forgive my previous question re DPFs.... ''are they easily replaceable''. lol
Well they are but they're the same size as a cat. converter where as I assumed it would be something the size of an oil filter ;D
SO. Presumably if a diesel one was purchased then this as well as regular oil changes would probably be good to replace immediately?
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Think Mark implied these are a big job on these, no doubt replacement of them. But depends how far up the zorst they are :-\
I understand they drop unburnt fuel down there to ignite, get the cat hot and burn off all the crap. If that could not shift it, if removed, could it even be cleaned?
Other things put me off diesels, such as turbo's when they fail that is a buck load of cash. Something to be said for the "simple" 4pot/V6 setup, no DPF, no turbos, just keep feeding it fresh oil :)
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Think Mark implied these are a big job on these, no doubt replacement of them. But depends how far up the zorst they are :-\
I understand they drop unburnt fuel down there to ignite, get the cat hot and burn off all the crap. If that could not shift it, if removed, could it even be cleaned?
Other things put me off diesels, such as turbo's when they fail that is a buck load of cash. Something to be said for the "simple" 4pot/V6 setup, no DPF, no turbos, just keep feeding it fresh oil :)
Couldn't agree more. I have only very basic theory of diesels and the most I've don't on one is a service. The turbo is also something I am concerned about. More to go wrong!
However, i'll take all the advice on board and check out those sites that pscoco posted :y
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There is something about Phaeton, still something puts me off. Interior is not quite right somehow, I find the same with all VW's, lacking soul maybe? (just personal thing) - Dunno, maybe I need to drive one. :-\
Lot of car for the money: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201310229396126/sort/default/usedcars/maximum-mileage/up_to_80000_miles/fuel-type/diesel/model/phaeton/make/volkswagen/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/onesearchad/new/radius/1500/postcode/w39ej/page/1?logcode=p (http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201310229396126/sort/default/usedcars/maximum-mileage/up_to_80000_miles/fuel-type/diesel/model/phaeton/make/volkswagen/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/onesearchad/new/radius/1500/postcode/w39ej/page/1?logcode=p)
Can get a Jag diesel for about same age miles, I just feel there would be more of a "DIY" attitude with these.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201309028583014/sort/default/usedcars/maximum-mileage/up_to_80000_miles/fuel-type/diesel/model/xj/make/jaguar/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/onesearchad/new/radius/1500/postcode/w39ej/page/1?logcode=p (http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201309028583014/sort/default/usedcars/maximum-mileage/up_to_80000_miles/fuel-type/diesel/model/xj/make/jaguar/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/onesearchad/new/radius/1500/postcode/w39ej/page/1?logcode=p)
I've driven one, be it a V8, so think I need to try a Phaeton at some point :)
The Jag has more 'soul' and a less corporate feel to it. :y
Check out the 'Owners Ratings'.......nineteen inch wheels and between £260 and £330 for each tyre. :'( :'(
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There is something about Phaeton, still something puts me off. Interior is not quite right somehow, I find the same with all VW's, lacking soul maybe? (just personal thing) - Dunno, maybe I need to drive one. :-\
Lot of car for the money: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201310229396126/sort/default/usedcars/maximum-mileage/up_to_80000_miles/fuel-type/diesel/model/phaeton/make/volkswagen/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/onesearchad/new/radius/1500/postcode/w39ej/page/1?logcode=p (http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201310229396126/sort/default/usedcars/maximum-mileage/up_to_80000_miles/fuel-type/diesel/model/phaeton/make/volkswagen/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/onesearchad/new/radius/1500/postcode/w39ej/page/1?logcode=p)
Can get a Jag diesel for about same age miles, I just feel there would be more of a "DIY" attitude with these.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201309028583014/sort/default/usedcars/maximum-mileage/up_to_80000_miles/fuel-type/diesel/model/xj/make/jaguar/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/onesearchad/new/radius/1500/postcode/w39ej/page/1?logcode=p (http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201309028583014/sort/default/usedcars/maximum-mileage/up_to_80000_miles/fuel-type/diesel/model/xj/make/jaguar/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/onesearchad/new/radius/1500/postcode/w39ej/page/1?logcode=p)
I've driven one, be it a V8, so think I need to try a Phaeton at some point :)
The Jag has more 'soul' and a less corporate feel to it. :y
That's what I thought too :y :y
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Going back to the DPF some users have confused a failed Differential Pressure Sensor with a DPF problem and of course the VW manual advises to replace a complete assembly with piping etc when several of the guys just replace the sensor itself at modest cost and they report reasonable performance even around town. On the website you will see that few issues with DPF itself.
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:D Webby, DPF 101 pay attention...
Diesel Particulate Filter. Basically a soot collector. It's part of the exhaust system, so technically a few bolts to change. But...
there's a couple of catches. They are designed to self clean or regenerate. For this to happen, the engine must be fully up to temp, engine speed becomes raised, as they regenerate by adding fuel, which ignites in the filter, burning off the soot. Ideally this happens whilst cruising along a nice empty motorway, not just as you arrive at the shops.
Unfortunately this is the real world, not and ideal second universe ::) so the DPF will clog up and fail, then you're looking at stoopid money for a new one, the posher the car the more ridiculous the price.
Tempting as 60+mpg is, I could, and would never, ever consider a diesel for a taxi, unless it was brand spankers and I was able to bin it when the warranty runs out. The reason being simply that the fuel savings won't cover the inevitable repair costs.
Whilst the Phaeton, on the face of looks like the bargain of the century, something tells me it will be a liability to anyone one a budget, unless they can afford to buy new.
Tempting as the Phaeton is, the ruinous repair costs aside, the typical VW mismatched armrest/door handles would do my head in, my £12k Altea would have annoyed me more if it hadn't been so cheap to buy:-X
Can safely say I'm with Tunnie on this one :y
Chris, in answer to your earlier post, I was refering to your choice ::) as much of a hell raiser as Webby is, I can't for the life of me imagine his parents in a VXR8 ;D whereas I think the Phaeton would probably end up irritating the hell out of you, simply because it isn't LS powered :y
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Can safely say I'm with Tunnie on this one :y
*screenshots page ;D
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Webby - if your parents do not need a great deal of space then you could try the Mercedes C280 Sport Auto - my son just bought a 2008 and he is very very happy with it so far. This is a 3 litre petrol - very nice to drive and very smooth. You can get them from £10/11k depending on the toy level and fair mileage. Much more compact than Phaeton and would be a little more suited to their needs I suspect reading between the lines.
I use the Phaeton for minimum 30 mile journeys but usually 220 miles or 260 miles non stop (or almost non stop if SWMBO wakes up).
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Thanks for all the info chaps. Very much appreciated :)
As for the styling I absolutely love it. As do mummy and daddy bear :) but i'll certainly look at the merc as an option :y
as taxi mentions, on the face of it it looks a GREAT deal but as we talk more and more about it, it may not be the ideal car.
however, ive started this quest for further info so ill finish ;D if I find out any more interesting titbits ill update :y
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What kind of miles will they be doing?
If talking 10k+ easy a year, then I would be concerned. (costs of service)
However if we are talking long journeys but rare, sub 5k miles a year, it should not cost too much :)
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There was a letter in the Sunday Times Drive section this week about s/h Phaetons, if you can get hold of it.:y
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:D Webby, DPF 101 pay attention...
Diesel Particulate Filter. Basically a soot collector. It's part of the exhaust system, so technically a few bolts to change. But...
there's a couple of catches. They are designed to self clean or regenerate. For this to happen, the engine must be fully up to temp, engine speed becomes raised, as they regenerate by adding fuel, which ignites in the filter, burning off the soot. Ideally this happens whilst cruising along a nice empty motorway, not just as you arrive at the shops.
Unfortunately this is the real world, not and ideal second universe ::) so the DPF will clog up and fail, then you're looking at stoopid money for a new one, the posher the car the more ridiculous the price.
Tempting as 60+mpg is, I could, and would never, ever consider a diesel for a taxi, unless it was brand spankers and I was able to bin it when the warranty runs out. The reason being simply that the fuel savings won't cover the inevitable repair costs.
Whilst the Phaeton, on the face of looks like the bargain of the century, something tells me it will be a liability to anyone one a budget, unless they can afford to buy new.
Tempting as the Phaeton is, the ruinous repair costs aside, the typical VW mismatched armrest/door handles would do my head in, my £12k Altea would have annoyed me more if it hadn't been so cheap to buy:-X
Can safely say I'm with Tunnie on this one :y
Chris, in answer to your earlier post, I was refering to your choice ::) as much of a hell raiser as Webby is, I can't for the life of me imagine his parents in a VXR8 ;D whereas I think the Phaeton would probably end up irritating the hell out of you, simply because it isn't LS powered :y
you may be surprised.. :) all agreed including commas ;D :y
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There was a letter in the Sunday Times Drive section this week about s/h Phaetons, if you can get hold of it.:y
Found this much...
http://www.driving.co.uk/content-search/vw+phaeton+/reviews (http://www.driving.co.uk/content-search/vw+phaeton+/reviews)
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Flippin' heck, first Tunnie, and now you Cem :o
There must have been something in that storm ;D
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Per chance, does anyone have a workshop manual for the petrol version? ps thanks cocoa.... that v6 diesel was a good read. looks as though I could even DIY the aux belt replacement.............. just ;D
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Flippin' heck, first Tunnie, and now you Cem :o
There must have been something in that storm ;D
Affecting you to, you agreed with me :o ;D
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;D
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Dpf regen description is not totally correct, the ECU late injects fuel which increases exhaust gas temperature (no burning in the filter), this is done via both altering the injection ratio and also by modulating a throttle butterfly and /or swirlflaps. Revs are unaffected but optimum regen occurs at above 2000 rpm hence the recommend driving approach.
The heat causes the soot to burn and form ash which is expelled out the exhaust
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Think Mark implied these are a big job on these, no doubt replacement of them. But depends how far up the zorst they are :-\
I understand they drop unburnt fuel down there to ignite, get the cat hot and burn off all the crap. If that could not shift it, if removed, could it even be cleaned?
Other things put me off diesels, such as turbo's when they fail that is a buck load of cash. Something to be said for the "simple" 4pot/V6 setup, no DPF, no turbos, just keep feeding it fresh oil :)
Couldn't agree more. I have only very basic theory of diesels and the most I've don't on one is a service. The turbo is also something I am concerned about. More to go wrong!
However, i'll take all the advice on board and check out those sites that pscoco posted :y
Turbos are reliable, no issues there (as good as the oil changes are, given four bloody timing chains they need to be good).
Modern diesels are fine IF your journey style suits
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Thanks Mark.
Strange that new phaetons aren't offered in petrol form anymore according to the vw site...
http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/new/phaeton-gp-iii/which-model/compare/price?p=2
Makes sense as to why theres only a couple on das trader
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Dpf regen description is not totally correct, the ECU late injects fuel which increases exhaust gas temperature (no burning in the filter), this is done via both altering the injection ratio and also by modulating a throttle butterfly and /or swirlflaps. Revs are unaffected but optimum regen occurs at above 2000 rpm hence the recommend driving approach.
The heat causes the soot to burn and form ash which is expelled out the exhaust
Well it was DPF 101 ::) Thank you for the correction though :y
I still don't intend to own a dpf fitted car any time soon...
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Taking all in to consideration and that there appears to be a lack of present and future phaetons for sale...... i'm presuming everythiong we've discussed would apply to a Passat CC (just thinking of compromising if we cant find what they want) :)
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https://volkswagen.de/content/medialib/vwd4/de/dialog/pdf/phaeton/phaeton_tup/_jcr_content/renditions/rendition.download_attachment.file/phaeton_preisliste.pdf (https://volkswagen.de/content/medialib/vwd4/de/dialog/pdf/phaeton/phaeton_tup/_jcr_content/renditions/rendition.download_attachment.file/phaeton_preisliste.pdf)
They are still offered in Germany. Petrol engine is referred to as Ottomotor after the co inventor
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....just allowed myself to look at Tunnie's Jaguar option. XFs. Mmmmmmmm :y
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Dpf regen description is not totally correct, the ECU late injects fuel which increases exhaust gas temperature (no burning in the filter), this is done via both altering the injection ratio and also by modulating a throttle butterfly and /or swirlflaps. Revs are unaffected but optimum regen occurs at above 2000 rpm hence the recommend driving approach.
The heat causes the soot to burn and form ash which is expelled out the exhaust
Well it was DPF 101 ::) Thank you for the correction though :y
I still don't intend to own a dpf fitted car any time soon...
Not an issue on Astra, (not all had them) Vectra and the like with the 1.9, simply reset ecu and reprogram with the no-dpf option, open dpf, smash shit out of contents and weld back up
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I like the thinking ;D
Any ideas for the fuel pump/injectors :-\
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LEXUS LS400 ;)
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LEXUS LS400 ;)
Nope, thread is defo titled Phaeton. Just is... ::)
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To be fair I mentioned Jaguar :-X ::) ;D
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To be fair I mentioned Jaguar :-X ::) ;D
True, but it is your thread ::)
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To be fair I mentioned Jaguar :-X ::) ;D
True, but it is your thread ::)
Quite. ::)
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Tunnie also mentioned Jaguar ::)
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Tunnie also mentioned Jaguar ::)
So cem, anything add about the Phaeton? ::)
;D
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Tunnie also mentioned Jaguar ::)
So cem, anything add about the Phaeton? ::)
;D
justice for all ;D
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I like the thinking ;D
Any ideas for the fuel pump/injectors :-\
Neither fuel pump or injectors are an issue on the 1.9
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Do we have any XF owners on the forum? Anyone can add any info on them. could make a good comparison with the phaeton
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Assuming your looking at petrol models now then Webby?
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Assuming your looking at petrol models now then Webby?
Yes mate. After having a think about what you said yesterday :)
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To be fair I mentioned Jaguar :-X ::) ;D
True, but it is your thread ::)
Quite. ::)
Dummy spitting time is it ;D
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Do we have any XF owners on the forum? Anyone can add any info on them. could make a good comparison with the phaeton
been a great lover of the xf for years the new euro6 model is dam good especially with the 510 and astronic box.you cant beat the living space in a xf super space.
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To be fair I mentioned Jaguar :-X ::) ;D
True, but it is your thread ::)
Quite. ::)
Dummy time is it ;D
Seems so ;D
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To be fair I mentioned Jaguar :-X ::) ;D
True, but it is your thread ::)
Quite. ::)
Dummy time is it ;D
Seems so ;D
Is that you've spat yours out or you're calling me a dummy? :-\ ::) ;D ;D
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To be fair I mentioned Jaguar :-X ::) ;D
True, but it is your thread ::)
Quite. ::)
Dummy time is it ;D
Seems so ;D
Is that you've spat yours out or you're calling me a dummy? :-\ ::) ;D ;D
Get a life Dummy ;D :P :P :P Spat my dummy out and cant find it ::) :( ;D :D :D
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Just for the record - Phaeton 4 year major service done today.
still on original rear tyres 37000 miles - 3mm of tread left
still on original brake pads - all ok til next service.
Only issue was a number plate bulb - £2 and an advisory on some corrosion on rear discs but that was reported last year also.
Quoted cost or this service from VW Ridgeway Reading was £550..
Actual cost - work done by Martins VW Camberley - £390 including all filters - fuel, pollen etc. Filters cost £140 of the total.
If tyres replaced soon then quote is £200 per tyre for 255/45 R18 103Y Dunlops
Rear discs would be £300 fitted.
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That's not bad given what it is :y
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That's horrific given what it is
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That's horrific given what it is
£390 for major dealer service? Work mate was charged more than that on his Astra J :o
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He was done then, big time, I can only assume they did more work or hes plain stupid.
It matters not what size the car is, the time taken to do a service hardly varies and the materials required hardly varies either.
The retail price for the filters alone is a disgrace.