Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: tunnie on 14 January 2014, 13:04:12
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It's now very likely that my bike will be pressed into commuting for the first time (around 50 miles a day), around early Feb time I think. Combination of traffic and parking restrictions here at work. Now the GS barely moved last year :-[ I think it did a few hundred miles tops :(
At the end of 2012 after it's big Scotland trip, it had a service at BMW, oil dropped ect. Now it's getting old and newer models are out, it's time to DIY it. My first job will be oil, it looks straight forward and bought the custom tool for filter removal.
But I'm not sure when to change it? The oil that is in there is just a few hundred miles old, but it's been stood still 95% if that time in the garage. I see a few options:
1) Drain and replace it now, without starting.
2) Jump start the bike and warm it up for 5 mins, then drain & replace.
3) Start using the bike, then in say 250 miles, drop the oil & replace.
Thoughts? I'm thinking option 3, as that should mix the oil up nicely and should remove most of the old stuff when changing?
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I see a few options:
1) Drain and replace it now, without starting.
2) Jump start the bike and warm it up for 5 mins, then drain & replace.
3) Start using the bike, then in say 250 miles, drop the oil & replace.
Thoughts? I'm thinking option 3, as that should mix the oil up nicely and should remove most of the old stuff when changing?
Great minds think alike ... tunnie lad! :y
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If it were a car that had been stored for a length of time I'd drop the oil, refill with cheap(er) stuff, drive until good and hot, come home and drop and refill with my usual choice of oil - two filter changes.
But given it's a modern bike, only stored for a year, presumably filled with fully or semi synthetic modern oil - I'd probably go for 3, too.
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Cheers Chaps :y :y
Oil is what ever BuMW specified, think it's fully synth, as it's a dry clutch I was planning to lob 10/40 GM Semi in it, think it should be fine on that, as the oil is not used in the clutch.
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It's now very likely that my bike will be pressed into commuting for the first time (around 50 miles a day), around early Feb time I think. Combination of traffic and parking restrictions here at work. Now the GS barely moved last year :-[ I think it did a few hundred miles tops :(
At the end of 2012 after it's big Scotland trip, it had a service at BMW, oil dropped ect. Now it's getting old and newer models are out, it's time to DIY it. My first job will be oil, it looks straight forward and bought the custom tool for filter removal.
But I'm not sure when to change it? The oil that is in there is just a few hundred miles old, but it's been stood still 95% if that time in the garage. I see a few options:
1) Drain and replace it now, without starting.
2) Jump start the bike and warm it up for 5 mins, then drain & replace.
3) Start using the bike, then in say 250 miles, drop the oil & replace.
Thoughts? I'm thinking option 3, as that should mix the oil up nicely and should remove most of the old stuff when changing?
Wont a chain wrench get that off :-\
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Nope :)
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(http://www.jimvonbaden.com/images/40-tighten-filter.jpg)
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Cheers Chaps :y :y
Oil is what ever BuMW specified, think it's fully synth, as it's a dry clutch I was planning to lob 10/40 GM Semi in it, think it should be fine on that, as the oil is not used in the clutch.
I thought bike oils were different specs to car oils? :-\
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Cheers Chaps :y :y
Oil is what ever BuMW specified, think it's fully synth, as it's a dry clutch I was planning to lob 10/40 GM Semi in it, think it should be fine on that, as the oil is not used in the clutch.
I thought bike oils were different specs to car oils? :-\
Only if the clutch is using the same oil, in my case it is not, the clutch is dry, engine oil is only used in the engine.
The latest GS has a wet clutch and has to have a mineral based oil which you don't get in cars :y
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The only problem with the current oil might be that it has absorbed moisture when laid up, in my view. For that reason, you want to change it before running the engine. One you've warmed it up, the moisture will get driven off through the breathers and you might as well just leave the old oil in it.
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A digression, but I take it that's not your Pontiac Aztec in the backround ::)
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The only problem with the current oil might be that it has absorbed moisture when laid up, in my view. For that reason, you want to change it before running the engine. One you've warmed it up, the moisture will get driven off through the breathers and you might as well just leave the old oil in it.
So you think drop it before starting?
A digression, but I take it that's not your Pontiac Aztec in the backround ::)
Yeah I noticed that too, but this chaps guides are rather good :)
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Option 2 for me, start from a known base line
And you can bet your life the BuMW oil will have been synthetic.
It wont hold a lot of oil anyway so will be cheap to do.
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Option 2 for me, start from a known base line
And you can bet your life the BuMW oil will have been synthetic.
It wont hold a lot of oil anyway so will be cheap to do.
Around 4L i think.... 10/40 Semi would be ok? I think it was recommend oil spec few years ago.
Humm so several votes for each, but master recommending 2. Hummm!
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I think you should think more about what you're going to put in rather than when.... ::)
A quick scan suggests the recommended is 15w50 Fully Synthetic and it looks like BMW recommend Castrol, although I saw a suggestion that's for business reasons rather than engineering.... :-\
This is what's making me chuckle though.... You wouldn't chuck Castrol 15w50 full fat in your Omega just because you have some kicking around for your bike! ;D
Your bike is worth a hell of a lot more than your Omega!! Do it properly!! :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D
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Indeed, and oil temperatures could be much higher than in an Omega.
Given that Halfrauds are currently giving away fully synth oil for buttons, I wouldn't be putting semi synth in anything. (and won't, for a considerable period, given the stockpile I've now got). ;D
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I've occasionally wondered why you haven't gone the DIY route on your bike before now, Mr Tunnie.
BMW flat twins have been about since the dawn of time, and are simplicity itself to work on.
Everything is so accessible that any work should be a piece of piss. :y :y
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I think you should think more about what you're going to put in rather than when.... ::)
A quick scan suggests the recommended is 15w50 Fully Synthetic and it looks like BMW recommend Castrol, although I saw a suggestion that's for business reasons rather than engineering.... :-\
This is what's making me chuckle though.... You wouldn't chuck Castrol 15w50 full fat in your Omega just because you have some kicking around for your bike! ;D
Your bike is worth a hell of a lot more than your Omega!! Do it properly!! :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D
Err I am, this thread was about when. I know exactly what oil I want to put in ;)
As I previously stated 10/40 was BMW specified oil once apon a time, they change it several times a year!
15w50 huh? Well Opie oils have personally reccomended 75/90 :o :D ??? - At a very reasonable £15 per litre :o :o :o :o
Book for 2010 bike says:
Engine oil, capacity approx. 4.2 l, with filter change
Products recommended by BMW Motorrad
Castrol Power 1 Racing SAE 5W-40, API SL / JASO MA2
Engine oil, quantity for topping up max 0.95 l, Difference between MIN and MAX
http://www.bmw-motorrad.de/de/de/services/bmwmotorrad_betriebsanleitungen/com/PDF/R_0A01_RM_0213_R1200GS_01.pdf (http://www.bmw-motorrad.de/de/de/services/bmwmotorrad_betriebsanleitungen/com/PDF/R_0A01_RM_0213_R1200GS_01.pdf)
Been doing a lot of research, 10/40 is fine:
http://www.r1200gs.info/forum/2-general-chatter/3143-10w-40-oil-1200gs.html (http://www.r1200gs.info/forum/2-general-chatter/3143-10w-40-oil-1200gs.html)
http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthread.php?51510-10w40 (http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthread.php?51510-10w40)
http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?91251-Oil (http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?91251-Oil)
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I've occasionally wondered why you haven't gone the DIY route on your bike before now, Mr Tunnie.
Mainly due to service history being important really on these, but it's less and less important now. :)
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It's a mine field looking online there are many different grades people use, but finally managed to get online manual of my bike, it specifies:
Engine oil, 20W-50
Is 10/40 really that different for UK use?
Given the age of the bike, fact it's not a 15,000 RPM racer, its a 2 pot tractor engine which has been pointed out a few times, also OOF has previously recommended 10/40 is fine for the bike :)
Halfords thinks this is the best 20/50 :D
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_166289_langId_-1_categoryId_165581 (http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_166289_langId_-1_categoryId_165581)
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15w50 huh? Well Opie oils have personally reccomended 75/90 :o :D ???
Er possibly for the gearbox perhaps.... ::)
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It's a mine field looking online there are many different grades people use, but finally managed to get online manual of my bike, it specifies:
Engine oil, 20W-50
Is 10/40 really that different for UK use?
Given the age of the bike, fact it's not a 15,000 RPM racer, its a 2 pot tractor engine which has been pointed out a few times, also OOF has previously recommended 10/40 is fine for the bike :)
Halfords thinks this is the best 20/50 :D
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_166289_langId_-1_categoryId_165581 (http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_166289_langId_-1_categoryId_165581)
Well, that one's most certainly in the "not even in my lawn mower" category. :o
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It's a mine field looking online there are many different grades people use, but finally managed to get online manual of my bike, it specifies:
Engine oil, 20W-50
Is 10/40 really that different for UK use?
Given the age of the bike, fact it's not a 15,000 RPM racer, its a 2 pot tractor engine which has been pointed out a few times, also OOF has previously recommended 10/40 is fine for the bike :)
Halfords thinks this is the best 20/50 :D
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_166289_langId_-1_categoryId_165581 (http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_166289_langId_-1_categoryId_165581)
Well, that one's most certainly in the "not even in my lawn mower" category. :o
That is the only one they do, looks good :o
So exact book for mine says 20/50, now my understanding is the numbers are linked to temps. So 10/40 would do just as well? In UK weather?
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15w50 huh? Well Opie oils have personally reccomended 75/90 :o :D ???
Er possibly for the gearbox perhaps.... ::)
Thought it was pricey ;D
15/50 still not right one though :)
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Bit of digging finds this: http://www.eurocarparts.com/mobile/ecp/c/BMW_R1200+GS_1200cc_2007/p/car-accessories/engine-oils-and-car-fluids/engineoils/20w50-engine-oil/?521770500&0&cc5_251 (http://www.eurocarparts.com/mobile/ecp/c/BMW_R1200+GS_1200cc_2007/p/car-accessories/engine-oils-and-car-fluids/engineoils/20w50-engine-oil/?521770500&0&cc5_251)
Says it is for petrol turbo car engines? Must be same stuff though? :-\
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Oh just change it. Any old oil will do its only a boxer twin, its a pre war design. It's hardly stressed either.
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Oh just change it. Any old oil will do its only a boxer twin, its a pre war design. It's hardly stressed either.
That was my original thinking. But I'm being told to do it right ::)
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Oh just change it. Any old oil will do its only a boxer twin, its a pre war design. It's hardly stressed either.
That was my original thinking. But I'm being told to do it right ::)
Is that pre Boer war or pre Napoleonic wars?...... ::) ::) ::) ;D
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A bmw with working indicators ::) ;D :P
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http://www.bmw-motorrad.co.uk/media/pdf/70583_A1_BMW_POSTER_MCO00066_low_res.pdf
What did Opie recommend for the engine by the way? ::)
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Not the one listed there, also that chart (Seen it before) is twin cam boxers. Different engine ;)
10/40 is going in :)
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Anyway back to my original question, it's either warm and drop or use it for a bit.
Master recommends warm then drop, which makes sense. Also not sure how quickly I can do work, once the bike is being used. So might as well do the work first, as I also have more time. :)
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Not the one listed there, also that chart (Seen it before) is twin cam boxers. Different engine ;)
10/40 is going in :)
That chart to me reads all boxer engines not a specific one.... :-\ How can you tell? ::)
So what did Opie recommend, just out of interest? ??? ::)
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Not the one listed there, also that chart (Seen it before) is twin cam boxers. Different engine ;)
10/40 is going in :)
That chart to me reads all boxer engines not a specific one.... :-\ How can you tell? ::)
So what did Opie recommend, just out of interest? ??? ::)
It shows the GS with twin cam engined boxer, simples. ::)
1) So here is the manual for my bike:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/803897/Motorbike/Service/R_0307_RM_0606_R1200GS_01.pdf (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/803897/Motorbike/Service/R_0307_RM_0606_R1200GS_01.pdf)
See Page 140.
10/40 is listed.
2) Called BMW asking for filter prices (£12 it turns out), asked about oil, advised oil grades change as new ones are released as they are 'better' (Newer tech) - Confirmed at launch, 10/40 was officially the recommended. (third time I am stating this to you?)
So the book says 10/40, the bloke at BMW says 10/40 are you happy now? ::) Can you add anything to my original actual question in the post? ::) - Which is what I was asking about.
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Page 138. Engine type. 2 overhead cam shafts. = Twin cam. No? ??? ::) :-\
The manual states 20w50 for your bike, but also lists 10w40 as permissable. The BMW/Castrol chart states 20w50 for boxer engines. If it was my £4000 bike I know what I would use, however as Chris pointed out earlier it's a boxer so it'd probably run OK with olive oil in it!! :D
I'm just trying to be helpful. That's all. The irony here is that you're usually the first to jump down someones throat if they suggest a cheap bodge on their £500 Omega and regularly lecture folk on the importance of using correct parts, oils and fluids.... ::)
In answer to your original question. It'll make little difference when you change the oil! ;D
BTW what did Opie recommend? ::)
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Page 138. Engine type. 2 overhead cam shafts. = Twin cam. No? ??? ::) :-\
The manual states 20w50 for your bike, but also lists 10w40 as permissable. The BMW/Castrol chart states 20w50 for boxer engines. If it was my £4000 bike I know what I would use, however as Chris pointed out earlier it's a boxer so it'd probably run OK with olive oil in it!! :D
I'm just trying to be helpful. That's all. The irony here is that you're usually the first to jump down someones throat if they suggest a cheap bodge on their £500 Omega and regularly lecture folk on the importance of using correct parts, oils and fluids.... ::)
In answer to your original question. It'll make little difference when you change the oil! ;D
BTW what did Opie recommend? ::)
2010 introduced a later engine, known as 'twin cam' (well that is what all the press said) which was a tweaked engine compared to mine, it felt very different to ride engine. wise. So you would rather I go by a chart that is very general, than the hand book I got with the bike? ::)
Appreciate the advice, but it's no bodge. I've been researching it for some time across a number of forums from peoples actual experience. As said earlier, the oil specs change over the years as certain ones are discontinued/improved. As BMW use Castrol, if they decide to drop type, they have to change the recommendation.
When I called BMW today and stated 20w50, they said they now are told to specify 15w50! But he stated the air cooled boxer ran quite happily on 10w40, when launched they specified that. It's only as technology has moved on, they specify different oils.
Also manufactures specify a lot of things, Vauxhall suggest 20k oil change intervals amoungst other things, WIM have a custom geo setup, outside Vx spec. Do we always do what Manufactures specify?
So it's no bodge to use it :)
So far I've had people vote for two of the 3 options, drop it or ride it. With MarksDTM suggesting it is worth dropping it early due to moisture, I bow to his knowledge on that. So does make a difference.
Not asked Opie oils as I'm not really interested in what they say. :)
At the end of the day its Boxer engine as Chris says & I rarely rev it about 6k rpm... so it's not exactly pushed!
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Wow up. I wasn't suggesting that the rider wasn't stressing the engine. Appologies if taken that way.
More that that engine isn't stressed when ragged to hell and back. It's low revving and under tuned. I'd go as far as to say it's not tuned at all but that would be unkind. ;) ;D
If there's this much concern, drop what's in the sump only, refill on cheap semi. Italian tune up to clean the damp out ,if there is any at all which I doubt, then do your top boll@x change with new filter and super dooper oil, or whatever you decide .
There, everyone's happy.
Thing is there's a lot if old pony about laying bikes up for any period. Start it up once a month and such. Rubbish. Provided the engine was up to temp on a run last yine it was shut down it will be absolutely fine.
I haven't read the whole thread but I bet the oil that's still in there is well within service life anyway.
Ok everyone pampers there favourite toy but really, that lump will run with chip fat in the sump no problem. It's almost bomb proof. Just don't drop it on its head(s) :)
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Wow up. I wasn't suggesting that the rider wasn't stressing the engine. Appologies if taken that way.
This is tunnie we're talking about .. the only man who could get 40mpg out of a 3.2 Omega.. ;D
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Ok everyone pampers there favourite toy but really, that lump will run with chip fat in the sump no problem. It's almost bomb proof. Just don't drop it on its head
Mite run on chip fat in the tank as well :P ;D
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So you would rather I go by a chart that is very general, than the hand book I got with the bike? ::)
They say exactly the same Tunnie!!! 20w50!!! :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D
When I called BMW today and stated 20w50, they said they now are told to specify 15w50!
15w50? Huh?? :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D
15/50 still not right one though :)
;) ;) ;) :) :) :)
And about when to change the oil, I said it would make little difference, not no difference!! I stand by that. ;)
Look I'm starting to argue just for the fun of it now, so here are my final thoughts then I'll shut up! ::)
That bike still has a fair amount of value left in it, so why not treat it with the same love as you would your £500 Omega! ??? If you're going to DIY then you should think about maintaining the value as well and that means using correct parts,oils and fluids. ::)
If I came along with £4000 in my sticky paws to buy your bike and you told me that you'd been using 10w40 GM oil 'The same as I use in my car' and I saw your £500 banger (No offence!) I wouldn't be very impressed. :(
The reality is that it'll tank on forever on GM but I should think that when the dealers and forum gurus say it's fine to use 10w40 they probably mean a 10w40 formulated for bikes not cars. ::) Something like this:-
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-727-castrol-power-1-4t-10w-40-formerly-castrol-power-1-gps-4t-10w-40-semi-synthetic-motorcycle-4-stroke-engine-oil.aspx
Your bike, your choice, but you might regret it come selling time if you havn't done it properly now to save a few sheckles!! ::) :)
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Wow up. I wasn't suggesting that the rider wasn't stressing the engine. Appologies if taken that way.
This is tunnie we're talking about .. the only man who could get 40mpg out of a 3.2 Omega.. ;D
;D ;D ;D
Wow up. I wasn't suggesting that the rider wasn't stressing the engine. Appologies if taken that way.
More that that engine isn't stressed when ragged to hell and back. It's low revving and under tuned. I'd go as far as to say it's not tuned at all but that would be unkind. ;) ;D
If there's this much concern, drop what's in the sump only, refill on cheap semi. Italian tune up to clean the damp out ,if there is any at all which I doubt, then do your top boll@x change with new filter and super dooper oil, or whatever you decide .
There, everyone's happy.
Thing is there's a lot if old pony about laying bikes up for any period. Start it up once a month and such. Rubbish. Provided the engine was up to temp on a run last yine it was shut down it will be absolutely fine.
I haven't read the whole thread but I bet the oil that's still in there is well within service life anyway.
Ok everyone pampers there favourite toy but really, that lump will run with chip fat in the sump no problem. It's almost bomb proof. Just don't drop it on its head(s) :)
Cheers Chris, yeah it was last run around summer time 2013, had a good 100+ mile run at the time. Been parked up and not touched since.
I guess I could just start it and ride the damn thing then sort oil out in a few months, as said previously stuff that is there is practically brand new :)
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Chances are that the stuff that BMW put in it is to a much higher spec. than GM semi-syn, so if it's only done a couple of hundred miles why change it at all?
BTW: The time to change the oil would have been before laying it up in the first place, to get rid of all the combustion by products in the crankcase which will react with any damp and form acids.
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Chances are that the stuff that BMW put in it is to a much higher spec. than GM semi-syn, so if it's only done a couple of hundred miles why change it at all?
BTW: The time to change the oil would have been before laying it up in the first place, to get rid of all the combustion by products in the crankcase which will react with any damp and form acids.
My concern was around 6 months of no use :y
Yup, this was done after it's big Scotland trip, a service in late Sept I think, then laid up. Taken out once or twice in the summer post that. Since then been stood for around 6 months.
So am I getting concerned over nothing?
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Yep. ;)
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Yep. ;)
Job jobbed then :D
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I thought the real oil specifications were in the non viscousity parameters like the API values? 20W50 is just how visocus it is at different temperatures and shows nothing on the oils suitablility or quality
Sorry if thats different on motorcycles but thats how it is on car motors
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....
So am I getting concerned over nothing?
Yes. ::)
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....
So am I getting concerned over nothing?
Yes. ::)
:) :) :)
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I thought the real oil specifications were in the non viscousity parameters like the API values? 20W50 is just how visocus it is at different temperatures and shows nothing on the oils suitablility or quality
Sorry if thats different on motorcycles but thats how it is on car motors
Well, this is very true. A fully synth 20w50 is a very different animal to the "classic" mineral shit stuff suggested earlier, and the difference is in the API / ACEA specs it meets. ;)
For an air cooled bike engine this could be important, as it might well operate over a higher range of oil temperatures. Not sure if that applies here as I only do 4 wheels. ;)
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Before you start it I would check to see if the oil has emulsified from moisture, as after laying up my Kawasaki for sometime this caused a blocked top end oilway. If the top of the oil is white (do you have an oil level window on the bike?) then I would recommend that you change it before you run the engine, especially if they have used Castrol where people have commented that they have had much more emulsification with an Omega engine using this.
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Yeah it has a sight glass, will double check what brand of oil was used. Suspect it was Castrol
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Ffs 50 posts on weather to change oil or not,just warm it up drop it and refill it with gm 10/40 semi.. Job done, just stop faffing and do it >:(
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Ffs 50 posts on weather to change oil or not,just warm it up drop it and refill it with gm 10/40 semi.. Job done, just stop faffing and do it >:(
Easy :o - no one forced you to read this thread. :o :o
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Ffs 50 posts on weather to change oil or not,just warm it up drop it and refill it with gm 10/40 semi.. Job done, just stop faffing and do it >:(
;D isn't it steam powered anyway? ;) ;D
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Also bike is 75 miles away, so sorry cannot do it this exact moment :y
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Ffs 50 posts on weather to change oil or not,just warm it up drop it and refill it with gm 10/40 semi.. Job done, just stop faffing and do it >:(
Time of the month dear fellow? ::)
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Ffs 50 posts on weather to change oil or not,just warm it up drop it and refill it with gm 10/40 semi.. Job done, just stop faffing and do it >:(
Students like to ask lots of questions. ::) ::) ::) ::)
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Ffs 50 posts on weather to change oil or not,just warm it up drop it and refill it with gm 10/40 semi.. Job done, just stop faffing and do it >:(
Students like to ask lots of questions. ::) ::) ::) ::)
Whole point of forums is asking questions! I was unsure so wanted to get opinions. It differed too, between options 2 & 3. :)
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If I'd realised it had only been laid up six months I'd have told you to get on it and ride it, ignoring the oil until it was due a service :P
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Come on.. only 59 posts so far... ::) We used to do much better oil threads than this. :D
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I think that if Tunnie is going to start using it for commuting, he should fit winter tyres..... :-X :)
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I think that if Tunnie is going to start using it for commuting, he should fit winter tyres..... :-X :)
:-X :-X :-X :-X ;D
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I think that if Tunnie is going to start using it for commuting, he should fit winter tyres..... :-X :)
He could pop Mrs T on the back for this years ski trip ;D
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I think that if Tunnie is going to start using it for commuting, he should fit winter tyres..... :-X :)
He could pop Mrs T on the back for this years ski trip ;D
But would that not require a different type of winter tyre and oil for the engine?
Discuss. :) ::)
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Spiked winter tyres didn't end well for the baddies in James Bond, but they did seem to cope with real live actual snow... guess the oil would need to be thinner to stop it going syrupy :-\
Or could you use 10w40 and simply bypass the oil cooler :-\
Decisions, descisions... ;D
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The wermacht used the same engine 70 years ago in there bikes,Steve McQueen couldn't jump a fence with one,but never did they go on about what oil, :D
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The wermacht used the same engine 70 years ago in there bikes,Steve McQueen couldn't jump a fence with one,but never did they go on about what oil, :D
;D ;D :-X
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The wermacht used the same engine 70 years ago in there bikes,Steve McQueen couldn't jump a fence with one,but never did they go on about what oil, :D
He only cleared the fence because he had lost so much weight being in a POW camp and all :-X ;D
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The wermacht used the same engine 70 years ago in there bikes,Steve McQueen couldn't jump a fence with one,but never did they go on about what oil, :D
He only cleared the fence because he had lost so much weight being in a POW camp and all :-X ;D
Should think that donk would have gone subterranean and ploughed him a nice tunnel where he landed too!
Anyway, no changing topic! This is supposed to be an oil thread, not a winter tyre thread. ::)
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Not sure MrsT would be keen on either being on the bike or the snowboarding trip!
Winter tyres though, hummmmm :D :D :D :D
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You have just enough time to organise a trip to the Elephant Rally. Just change the oil, fit your winter tyres, put Mrs T on the back and off you go. :y :y :y
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_Rally (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_Rally)
When you get back you can then advise CG on the best winter tyres for his Fireblade. :P :o :o :o