Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: cd 2.2 on 09 April 2014, 18:46:15
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I Changed the gearbox cooler oil seals today and topped up the gearbox as it had lost a little oil with the leak (the joint to the oil cooler after changing the radiator for a new one), It only took 250ml to fill back up as per guides here! Over the last few weeks the gearbox has been acting rather strangely, it will set off fine and then 3 miles or so after setting off it revs up and the gearbox fault light comes on :( When this happens I can only guess that it puts the gearbox into limp mode as it seems to stick into 2nd gear and won't shift! I've had it to a guy locally who has reading equipment for the ecu and such but it seems that it's not logging/storing a fault! As soon as you turn the car off and re-start the gearbox is fine for a few miles and then it revs up again and the light comes on and goes into limp state ... This issue has gotten markedly worse over a very short period and I'm told that the gearbox is toast by 2 local garages :'(
It's had a new camshaft sensor just the other day and I have spent allot of cash getting things back right after changing the head gasket! If this is indeed a dead gearbox I can't afford to get it fixed, my health is such that I can't be on the floor under the car to get the gearbox out to change it and in turn that will make garage costs massively prohibitive !
I'm sadly out of cash after spending the thick end of £1000 on repairing this one and getting it on the road in the last 2 months! I don't want to waste any more cash on it if the gearbox is toast, it's done 118300 approx now so it's not young in the mileage department. To top it off it's a 2.2 16v automatic so very undesirable and virtually worthless on the second hand market, especially with gearbox trouble :'(
Are the garages I have taken it to right in saying that the gearbox is toast? If they are how much should it cost to repair/replace?
Thanks in advance Graham
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Was the engine running while you checked the gearbox oil level?
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Need a better code reader, as if you are getting Automatic Gearbox on MID, the TCM will store a code
You're not having much luck, are you :'(
On the upside, even if box is shagged, they are readily available from breakers here. Can't imagine more than £40-£50 for the less desirable AR25
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Was the engine running while you checked the gearbox oil level?
Engine running and ran through all gears, up to temp ect when checking level (learned the hard way the first time)
Need a better code reader, as if you are getting Automatic Gearbox on MID, the TCM will store a code
You're not having much luck, are you :'(
On the upside, even if box is shagged, they are readily available from breakers here. Can't imagine more than £40-£50 for the less desirable AR25
Definitely the unluckiest person to ever have walked the planet ::)! I love my car and it's the first motor I've ever owned that I am truly comfortable in .... I will have to get on the phone to a few breakers and see if they have any AR25 boxes about. I'm a little concerned about getting one that's worse than the one I have already (and knowing my luck that will happen)!
The MID isn't showing the fault, it's the little car with a spanner (control indicator) that lights up on the dash (at least it's not the EML this time)! Looking in the book this is the explanation of the light coming on :
Control indicator (car with spanner symbol) for engine electronics Lights up for a few seconds when ignition is switched on.
If the lamp comes on when the engine is running, there is a fault in the engine or transmission electronics.
The electronics switch to limp-home mode, fuel consumption may increase and the driveability of the vehicle may be affected.
In some cases, the fault can be remedied by switching the engine off and on aga in.
If the control indicator lights again when the engine is running, consult a workshop to have the cause of the fault remedied. We recommend your Vauxhall Authorised Repairer.
I would imagine that this is more the electrics in the gearbox than mechanical ???
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Ah, so engine limp. That will throw gearbox into limp (3rd gear).
Engine codes, hope not another bloody cam sensor
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Ah, so engine limp. That will throw gearbox into limp (3rd gear).
Engine codes, hope not another bloody cam sensor
How can you tell without any fault codes what is causing the problem? I have already done the dance of the cam sensors and spent far too much cash on varying different types! There is no EML on and no codes stored in the ecu that much is certain ... maybe I can fix it with some fire ???
I think I'm going to sell the heap and get something with more reliable electrics and just put up with the fact that I'm never going to see any of my money back ...
Question is bridge it or try to sell it ???
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You said car with spanner came on, or did I misunderstand?
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yes that's right ... car with spanner
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yes that's right ... car with spanner
So I'd expect a code?
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no code >:( I had it checked (twice) the guy thinks i'm nuts ;D
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no code >:( I had it checked (twice) the guy thinks i'm nuts ;D
Might be worth awaiting MDTMs return, and getting a proper tech2 on it, checking engine, tcm and abs
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do tcm's fail? ... When I queried Vx about this problem they suggested solenoids in the gearbox at fault due to how/when the fault occurs
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do tcm's fail? ... When I queried Vx about this problem they suggested solenoids in the gearbox at fault due to how/when the fault occurs
Rarely. Very rarely.
But you need to read all 3 parts that work closely together, as faults in one can cause the other ecus to be confuddled.
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Given the symptoms, I'd expect either a code around solenoids, or an Incorrect Ratio.
Hence, getting it on a proper Tech2 that can read all systems properly - we can never be sure about generic ones, sometimes they miss codes, due to the vague nature of OBDII requirements
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when I went to check the front lambda sensor connector the wire came apart, someone in the past (not me before it's said) had fitted one of those splice it in yourself sensors. All the 4 wires had come loose and even after re-connecting them all P0170 remained!
Given that you found bodged wiring causing intermittent connections on your lambda sensor I wonder if there are other crimp connections that you haven't found yet? :-\
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It's mostly unusable at the moment and Marks is a fair drive for me (I don't trust it for that distance anymore)! I can't advertise the car on here after my previous rage quit :-[ And I don't know how much I should even ask for it with about 3 months T&T on it ... overall average condition and everything works .... Been considering swapping it for a volvo 740,940 or similar older rwd car as the electrics on them is far simpler.
when I went to check the front lambda sensor connector the wire came apart, someone in the past (not me before it's said) had fitted one of those splice it in yourself sensors. All the 4 wires had come loose and even after re-connecting them all P0170 remained!
Given that you found bodged wiring causing intermittent connections on your lambda sensor I wonder if there are other crimp connections that you haven't found yet? :-\
Given the nature of the previous owner I guess this is plausible, but I have had the most of the engine apart already and found nothing then (I did miss the Lambda sensor though). Everything "seems" to be in pretty good order really, I think someone more knowledgeable with newer car electrics would have more chance of turning this car into a good daily runner, better chance than I have anyway ::)
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just an idea check connector that plug into gearbox--got my miggy really cheap due to gearbox issues--it was connector up behind selector on gearbox--was a pain -but got it done-
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just an idea check connector that plug into gearbox--got my miggy really cheap due to gearbox issues--it was connector up behind selector on gearbox--was a pain -but got it done-
Just almost came to this myself after reading this on mig web
Vehicle Speed Sensor Strategies: A problem with the vehicle speed sensor can disable the cruise-control system as well as affect transmission shifting and converter engagement.
Replacing a sensor won’t solve a drivability or emissions problem if the problem isn’t the sensor. Common conditions such as fouled spark plugs, bad plug wires, a weak ignition coil, a leaky EGR valve, vacuum leaks, low compression, dirty injectors, low fuel pressure or even low charging voltage can all cause driveability symptoms that may be blamed on a bad sensor. If there’s are no sensor-specific fault codes, these kinds of possibilities should be ruled out before much time is spent on electronic diagnosis.
Could the speed sensor on the rear of the box be the issue (given that I have no OBDII codes available from ECU ???
Getting really stressed with it now as when it behaves it's great to drive. If I flog it and find out it's a simple thing i'm going to have an aneurysm ;D Thanks for your help on this one as I'm losing the ability to think rationally about this
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A little more progress on this situation has happened, It's not what I wanted to find but hey it's found now ::)
Drained off a little bit of the ATF out of the gearbox into a glass jar, It's black and it stinks burned really bad! Not just dark brown, I mean black with a brown tinge, it's so bad you can barely even see light through it :(
I'm guessing that this means that something has burned out in the transmission and i'm unsure whether just a fluid change for this would be appropriate given the expense of a new filter, the sump gaskets and the new oil ??? I guess it would explain a lot with the bad gear changes and missed gears along with the limp mode being present ... Question is, what to do about it now ?
I know AR25 boxes are cheap as chips, but I'm wary of buying a used one as I don't have anything concrete to say how it was on the previous car other than the buyers word (and we all know what some people are like)! For me there are few options A] Sell the car with a dead gearbox and get nothing for it! B] Source a used AR25 transmission and battle to change it on my own! or C] Take the car over the bridge and cut my losses as I don't want to break it for spares due to the lack of space and storage with having my brothers Princess in the garage atm!
I haven't the cash to pay a garage to do the work for me so that's well out of the question, the damn thing has already bled me dry and I don't even have any reserves left >:( .... So yeah pretty stumped now really :-\
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See if one of the Mig breakers here has a gearbox available before looking elsewhere but this needs proper diagnostics on it first,dirty atf doesn't always mean a knackered gearbox
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See if one of the Mig breakers here has a gearbox available before looking elsewhere but this needs proper diagnostics on it first,dirty atf doesn't always mean a knackered gearbox
+1 :y
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I'm very split minded as to what to do to be honest, I have put it up for sale here http://autoshite.com/topic/16537-would-anyone-have-any-interest-in-this/ .... I think I want to change it for an old volvo 740 as I have good memories of these (my dad had them for the best part of 6 years) and I know that electrically they are really very simple so I won't have that in the way of things! Asking £500 or in that region for the mig as The parts and work alone are worth more than that
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Its POPCORN time ;D ;D
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I recall you posting about this problem before.
Did you refresh the atf at the time ? and it has the atf now become like this or did you do nothing
Reason is that if the atf has been in this state this could be the problem.
The cost, and ease, of doing a filter/fluid change - and poss a 3rd gear solenoid change - could resolve the prob
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I hear what you're saying phil, there just is no more money available at all ... not a penny! The ATF looked brownish but very red initially when when I took everything to pieces, the change in colour happened over the last 2 weeks and I did have to fill the box up (total 2 litres overall after a leak at the cooler end)! I only noticed the change in smell mostly when I came to renew the cooler o rings the other day, It smells a bit like burned coffee but more chemically than that and it was very noticeably darker than when I topped it up! If I could afford to replace the filter and the ATF on a chance of fixing it, I would have already done it. But as I said before, this car has bled me dry and I have no more money spare (I have bigger priorities than the car needing to be fixed every 10 miles).
I'm giving it a couple of weeks to sell ... I think I'm reasonable on my price given the condition of things overall (correct me if I'm wrong though please), If she doesn't sell, well, I think we all know what is going to happen to it. I am unwilling to break it up as it makes a big ugly mess and I need to get a car that actually works when I need it to, not when it feels like it! I will not spend another £213 + some Vat on ATF a filter and a solenoid it's just not worth it to me, my luck something else will just break immediately after doing the job (I have no confidence in the car ever being reliable for me) :(
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OK - i give in ::) :-[ ;) ;)
You could always do what i did. Buy another 2.2, as they are so cheap, and use the old one for spares, cost effective in some ways.
Although swmbo is getting sick of it being on the drive after 2 years :o :o
Yes I know - no money, sick of car, had enough, want something different, etc, etc. Do sympathise really :D :D
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I have a spares car ... but not until July >:( ...... But that makes me wonder if it would be worth laying this one up until then :-\
Why are these choices soo hard ?? It's only a frikin tin box ::)
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I have a 2.2 auto box here you can have it free of if it helps mate
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I have a 2.2 auto box here you can have it free of if it helps mate
There is also one on my spares car you can have for free, although the 3rd gear solenoid has gone, but it does have a new filter. I was having the same prob as you
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I have a 2.2 auto box here you can have it free of if it helps mate
There is also one on my spares car you can have for free, although the 3rd gear solenoid has gone, but it does have a new filter. I was having the same prob as you
What was wrong with yours in the end phil, if you don't mind me asking?
Very interested in the filter proposition also :y
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I have a 2.2 auto box here you can have it free of if it helps mate
There is also one on my spares car you can have for free, although the 3rd gear solenoid has gone, but it does have a new filter. I was having the same prob as you
What was wrong with yours in the end phil, if you don't mind me asking?
Very interested in the filter proposition also :y
The box (and filter) are still on the car on the drive
You will regret asking :o :o ::)
I was having similar probs as you, not going into, or banging into 3rd gear, limp home mode, auto box error on display.
Did the filter and atf change and saw some improvement but after a while it came back. Consensus on here was that it was 3rd gear solenoid.
Came up with a "put me on" solution until i could change the solenoid.
When it didn't change to 3rd when i expected i would put into N (for a sec) and then back into D and it would re-engage in 3rd and drive normal, changed down and even kicked down. Just going up to 3rd was prob. BTW prob seemed to almost go away during the winter ??? :-\
As you would expect this solution "put me on" for quite a long time (about 6 months) and then about 3 weeks before I was due to go on holiday (in car) it stopped being a solution, played up in other gears and started to do other things as well as throwing up cam sensor codes. I played with the thought that it might be because it was summer and warmer :-\ :-\
Anyway out of curiosity looked on the bay and found the one I have now for sale and managed to get them to drop price by a grand and bought it. Holiday sorted and deal with the problem when I got back. Which I put off and put off (1 year) until eventually decided to just strip the car for spares.
Told you'd regret it :y :-[
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That is exactly what mine is doing !
The only difference is that nothing comes up on the mid, the coolant level low also doesn't (maybe someone disconnected it ???)
So you never truly got to the root of the cause ? I do notice it's not a commonly posted problem and it's very hard to explain what's happening! You explained it perfectly ... maybe my car is twin to yours ??? I don't think that this is an easy fix tbh, but there has always been hope that I would find the issue in the back of my mind.
Mine has occasionally started to jump up and down gears when slowing down (this happened this afternoon, and previously on monday) !
Makes me wonder if it's just the electrics on the car ???
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The reason I am pretty sure it's the solenoid is that this problem has been cured by someone on here, twiglet, webby or tigger not sure. There is a thread, with pictures, but cant find it. Wonder if Rob is reading he can find anything on here.
There is one difference with yours in that your atf has "gone off" since refreshed, mine didn't. This i would guess is a significant clue, is it a consequence of bad gear changing OR a consequence of the probs you've had with the cooler, atf dont like being hot. i'm no expert but lots on here are
I think you must be getting the hint from folks on here that these cars are worth the effort (well apart from stemo ;D) and the effort you have put in must pay dividends soon. Another unknown car could be the start of the same not the end :-\
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I have to agree, that when they are working, when! They are fantastic and really nice to drive. I don't want to think I would be going back to the start again ... it's been a ball ache getting to where I am with it now ::)
The thought has often passed my mind of "am I going to have to rebuild the entire thing for it to be right again"? I am even considering ripping out what is in there and putting a non GM engine and box in the car (if that's even possible). I hope I can get over this rut with the car and rest assured ... it's people like yourself SIR Philbutt, TheBoy and other really nice folk that have kept me going with it to this point! I want to keep it, of course I do but I'm at that awkward point of do I proceed or do I bail out fearing spending even more cash that I don't have available trying to fix an issue that can't be fixed (and in theory anything can be fixed)!
I wonder if there is a way of testing the solenoids without using a Tech 2 if I'm going to take off the gearbox sump anyway ??? I would imagine that there must be a way :y
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You've put so much effort into this car that it would be a shame to walk away at this point and I think you will probably get to the bottom of the gearbox problem in the end. :y
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That's why I love my manual less hassle :y
Keep the car you will regret it. I regret getting rid of my last omega all because it needed head gasket doing for the third time and some welding.
Ps I hope I don't start a auto/manual war ;D
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I have a 2.2 auto box here you can have it free of if it helps mate
There is also one on my spares car you can have for free, although the 3rd gear solenoid has gone, but it does have a new filter. I was having the same prob as you
What was wrong with yours in the end phil, if you don't mind me asking?
Very interested in the filter proposition also :y
The box (and filter) are still on the car on the drive
You will regret asking :o :o ::)
I was having similar probs as you, not going into, or banging into 3rd gear, limp home mode, auto box error on display.
Did the filter and atf change and saw some improvement but after a while it came back. Consensus on here was that it was 3rd gear solenoid.
Came up with a "put me on" solution until i could change the solenoid.
When it didn't change to 3rd when i expected i would put into N (for a sec) and then back into D and it would re-engage in 3rd and drive normal, changed down and even kicked down. Just going up to 3rd was prob. BTW prob seemed to almost go away during the winter ??? :-\
As you would expect this solution "put me on" for quite a long time (about 6 months) and then about 3 weeks before I was due to go on holiday (in car) it stopped being a solution, played up in other gears and started to do other things as well as throwing up cam sensor codes. I played with the thought that it might be because it was summer and warmer :-\ :-\
Anyway out of curiosity looked on the bay and found the one I have now for sale and managed to get them to drop price by a grand and bought it. Holiday sorted and deal with the problem when I got back. Which I put off and put off (1 year) until eventually decided to just strip the car for spares.
Told you'd regret it :y :-[
Ive seen that happen too on the ar25 box. And i wonder if its caused by not using a top of the range fluid. :-\
Ive seen it happen with comma ATF in the box Which is not highly rated on here :-\
Way of thinking being; The fluid gets too hot in summer :-\ Just a thought
Anyway here is the 2-3 solenoid :y
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/70807181/box1.jpg)
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I wonder how Omegod is getting on with his box. :-\ Seem to remember he was about to do a 2-3 solenoid :y
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The filters are expensive from GM, cheaper from JPAT (see sticky in For Sale).
Although the filters clean out well anyway, so rarely a need to replace.
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The filters are expensive from GM, cheaper from JPAT (see sticky in For Sale).
Although the filters clean out well anyway, so rarely a need to replace.
Do you just clean them with petrol? and do they need re-sealing or anything on refit?
I'm going to drop the sumps off tomorrow I think, hopefully there will be no thrust washer bits in there and just dirt :-\
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I wonder how Omegod is getting on with his box. :-\ Seem to remember he was about to do a 2-3 solenoid :y
Didn't solve my problem for long unfortunately but was a piece of piss to change , Looks to be a further solenoid problem and I'm going to change the pressure control one inside the small sump! hopefully a spares car I'm picking up will have a decent one in it :-\
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After lots of searching for other suitable cars ... I have decided to keep hold of this one (even if it takes a year to sort out)!
The sumps are definitely coming off tomorrow so I will report as to what I find with hopefully some pictures. I guess there is a possibility that I might fit a manual gearbox but that would require allot of further advice as to what is involved (am I right thinking that the manual is basically a BMW box ??? )!
We will see what tomorrow brings, looking forward to getting covered in smelly ATF (at least I will be non stick :D)
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After lots of searching for other suitable cars ... I have decided to keep hold of this one (even if it takes a year to sort out)!
The sumps are definitely coming off tomorrow so I will report as to what I find with hopefully some pictures. I guess there is a possibility that I might fit a manual gearbox but that would require allot of further advice as to what is involved (am I right thinking that the manual is basically a BMW box ??? )!
We will see what tomorrow brings, looking forward to getting covered in smelly ATF (at least I will be non stick :D)
How are things going with this. :y
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not got anything done yet, been too windy and such for me to be bothered ::)
Not using it at the moment unless absolutely necessary (only 15 miles covered in the last week)! The plan is to keep the mileage as minimal as possible (max 20 miles a week) until we can either get the parts to get it sorted, or get another smaller car as a runabout until this one is fixed I think. For me it's not hurting anything if it sits idle on the drive until July when I get the other car to break as that one has a presumed good gearbox and is in daily use at the minute! Time will tell I guess :y
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Robs got a Known good working gearbox (AR35) That may be coming up soon :y
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Thanks for the suggestion. I have now put the car on the forum as FREE to collect, I'm running it into the ground before the test runs out (19th July) the first to say they can collect it from me can take it on the day that the test runs out! It's already missing most of the drivers door mirror and the glass is broken, the front bumper has seen better days as that's now my forward facing parking aid!
It's definitely going when the MOT is up, whether it be scrapped or collected for free. If anyone wants it as it stands now it's £200 (scrap money) .... Not continuing to flog a dead horse I would much rather cut my losses and let someone with deeper pockets have it!
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HI mate, just a quick question I've got the same problem as you but it don't throw any lights or codes up, I've found out if you drive it nicely then it plays around in in 2nd or 3rd it revs quite high until it changes gear or it will just rev and not go no were as said above if you put it in n then again d it's fine again, I've found out if you drive it quite hard it doesn't do it (well mine don't) when.you go out in it again just give it a try. :y
Regards darren
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I wonder how Omegod is getting on with his box. :-\ Seem to remember he was about to do a 2-3 solenoid :y
Didn't solve my problem for long unfortunately but was a piece of piss to change , Looks to be a further solenoid problem and I'm going to change the pressure control one inside the small sump! hopefully a spares car I'm picking up will have a decent one in it :-\
Hi, just wondering were did you get your 2nd and 3rd solenoidso from was it a vauxhall job also how much plz, regards darren
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This is the same problem as yours, If you drive like a nutter it's fine though! What an utterly useless car ::)
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This is the same problem as yours, If you drive like a nutter it's fine though! What an utterly useless car ::)
indeed lol, its a night mere as it don't always do it just when it feels like it, I still like the car as mines the 2.6 v6, its not quite bugging me yet but I want to get it sorted before it gets worse although I have been reading up and it seems like the 2nd and 3rd gear solenoid seems to fix this prob, so im going to find a price for these and give it ago, :y
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roughly £75 ish + vat from Vx dealer for 2nd gear solenoid iirc
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roughly £75 ish + vat from Vx dealer for 2nd gear solenoid iirc
Or http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=46268.0
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Problem solved!!!
I found a scrappy that wants it for £200 in the morning and I still get to cash the tax in ... Thank god it's going as 1 more day with it would have sent me over the edge ;D
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I wonder how Omegod is getting on with his box. :-\ Seem to remember he was about to do a 2-3 solenoid :y
Didn't solve my problem for long unfortunately but was a piece of piss to change , Looks to be a further solenoid problem and I'm going to change the pressure control one inside the small sump! hopefully a spares car I'm picking up will have a decent one in it :-\
Hi, just wondering were did you get your 2nd and 3rd solenoidso from was it a vauxhall job also how much plz, regards darren
I had saved a set from my previous 2.6 that had a broken engine
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I wonder how Omegod is getting on with his box. :-\ Seem to remember he was about to do a 2-3 solenoid :y
Didn't solve my problem for long unfortunately but was a piece of piss to change , Looks to be a further solenoid problem and I'm going to change the pressure control one inside the small sump! hopefully a spares car I'm picking up will have a decent one in it :-\
Hi, just wondering were did you get your 2nd and 3rd solenoidso from was it a vauxhall job also how much plz, regards darren
I had saved a set from my previous 2.6 that had a broken engine
Oh right cool I'm looking for another gearbox as rang vauxhall up I can get another area gearbox out off a 2.5v6 for 50 from Nottingham I thought that sounds better,did.you want to sell those.