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Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Webby the Bear on 13 January 2015, 10:31:12

Title: Engine stand question...
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 January 2015, 10:31:12
Hi ya,

Get paid in a few days and going to get an engine stand so I can work on the 3L block I bought.

I'll be renting an engine crane too to get it in to position.

One thing though..... where does said engine stand attach? I assume through the bellhousing bolt holes. If so, any idea what size these are as i dont have any laying around. thinking M10?  :-\
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 January 2015, 10:33:05
Oh and unrelated question lol

will 1 inch by inch square tube be sturdy enough for a mig welding cart?
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: Nick W on 13 January 2015, 10:55:55
I use lengths of appropriate studding to attach an engine to a stand, which saves a lot of faffing about with different length bolts and packing washers. You use the bell housing boltholes on most stands. They are are almost certainly M10, I'd undo one of the more accessible ones if I wanted to check.
The easiest way of getting the engine on the stand is to bolt the mounting head to the engine first, and slide that into the tube on the stand.
Buy a 4 legged stand; they are much more stable than a 3leg one.
1" angle is cheaper, easier to work, and makes attaching the shelves much easier. Pay attention to the proportions, the cart I made for my TIG  and plasma cutter was far too tall for its width. It was so unsatisfactory that I recently scrapped it and bought one, which is folded sheet metal. £40 from Machine Mart if you're interested. I do understand why you want to make one as it is a good first design/build project.
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 January 2015, 11:01:49
Thanks Nick, thats answered all of my Q's.

You're spot on in that, yes, i do want to make one as opposed to buying one.

Local metal place giving me 10 metres of 25mm square tube for £25. assuming i have any left over ill build something else also.

im going to make mine about 6 inches wider than the welder itself. and to be honest only tall enough so the pull handles at hand height. and ill put a shelf on top to store mig consumables, magnets, wire brush etc :)
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: Kevin Wood on 13 January 2015, 12:06:36
With regard to the engine crane, I have a cheap 1 tonne chain hoist from Ebay which I use attached to a wooden beam which I lay across 3 or 4 joists in the garage roof. Much cheaper than an engine crane (cheaper than hiring one too), much less bulky to store and if you just want to lift the engine up onto a stand and vice versa, it'll be all you need.

I've used it to get the engine and gearbox in and out of the Westfield a few times, as per:

(http://images.omegaowners.com/images/kevin/Westfield%20Rebuild/IMGP3049.JPG)

(http://images.omegaowners.com/images/kevin/Westfield%20Rebuild/IMGP3050.JPG)

(http://images.omegaowners.com/images/kevin/Westfield%20Rebuild/IMGP3051.JPG)

Might need the flexibility of an engine crane to do the same on an Omega, but worth thinking about if you've got a structure strong enough in your garage.

Also invaluable when shifting engines and heavy bits around is a decent bit of strong wooden board with a caster at each corner for moving things around the floor.
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 January 2015, 12:10:50
Nice one Kev. i have seen a lot of people use them.

I'm ashamed to say i cant remember what our garage ceiling looks like (i.e. if there are any exposed beams) ill have a butchers mate :)

i can make a ''dolly'' for lugging about stuff on the floor.

the more projects the better for me at the moment as i got some time, some metal and a welder..... why not make stuff!  ;D
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 January 2015, 12:17:34
One final random question.....

My Clarke 135TE will weld stainless according to the book. Can i weld stainless to mild steel?
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: kev2b4 on 13 January 2015, 12:24:16
Have got an engine crane sitting in Luton if you get desperate
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 January 2015, 12:27:52
Have got an engine crane sitting in Luton if you get desperate

Thanks Kev, thats really kind. ill pm you if needed :)
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: kev2b4 on 13 January 2015, 12:39:23
Can i weld stainless to mild steel?

I've welded carbon steel to aluminium! - wasn't structural though!,  carbon to stainless - many times - welding rod depends on the stainless grade etc. ( as specified in the weld procedure )
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 January 2015, 12:42:08
Thanks for that.

Would welding stainless castors to the bottom of a weld cart be considered structural or ''critical''?  :-\
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: kev2b4 on 13 January 2015, 12:46:30
Stainless castors!! bit posh - sure they're not plated  bet they're not C276 stainless ( approx 3% iron, rest expensive stuff- but good for 28% HCl in hot water at 90 Deg C!)
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 January 2015, 12:49:27
i dunno mate. its off a dumped and broken shopping trolley near SWMBOs house and i just guessed it looked like stainless!  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: kev2b4 on 13 January 2015, 13:01:34
try a magnet on it - if it sticks then is probably plated carbon steel. ( or martensitic stainless - some are magnetic) , 304/316 SS and other basic stainless are non-magnetic
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 January 2015, 13:03:05
ok mate will do thank you :)

if i plan on just welding it to steel with my standard 0.6mm wire and appropriate heat settings will it be good enough for a welding cart?
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 January 2015, 13:03:23
...oh and 100% co2 gas
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 January 2015, 13:04:15
ps i dont have to use those castors. but i love the idea of making useless sh*t useful. and of course saving me dough in the mean time.

if i have to buy proper wheels i will :)
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: kev2b4 on 13 January 2015, 13:12:38
if you think about what you are using the trolley wheels for -- what's the worst case if 1 or more fail? - depends on what is on the dolly I guess - (RA coming up?)
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 13 January 2015, 13:25:35
Shopping trolleys tend to be zinc plated and not stainless.
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: Nick W on 13 January 2015, 13:34:28
Don't bother with the shopping trolley castors.
Get the whole trolley, cut the top off and attach your intended structure to what's left.
works well for a welding trolley or a small engine-dolly
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 January 2015, 13:38:48
Thanks guys,

Mark, first of all... how the hell do you know all this stuff?  ??? ;D ;)

Zinc plated can be welded can it not? It's just like the shizzle on nuts and bolts that we were discussing? Unless i've got that horribly wrong  :-\ ;D

SO. On lunchen and knocked up some drawings of what i want, how i want it to look etc. will upload later.

For now though the welder dimensions are
L 500MM
W 280MM
H 420MM

So, the base (the bottom part where the welder sits) to be 380mm across and the length 600mm. This extra length to ensure the welder doesnt interfere with the upper portion and the legs.

the legs to be about 710mm in height and with the casters will be at good pulling heigth.

then a couple of 450mm tubes (with 45 degree angles on each side) to act as gussets from the back most legs attached to the upper portin.

then a bunch of (presumably 380mm if i get it all square) supporting tube sections in between all of that.

i dont want an extra area at the back for a bigger tank cos, quite honestly, im happy with the hobby bottles. still on my first one! :)
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 January 2015, 13:41:56
Don't bother with the shopping trolley castors.
Get the whole trolley, cut the top off and attach your intended structure to what's left.
works well for a welding trolley or a small engine-dolly

Thats a really good idea Nick!!!
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 13 January 2015, 13:47:26
Do you really think that something as disposable as a shopping trolley would be made out of expensive stainless steel....
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 January 2015, 13:50:00
Do you really think that something as disposable as a shopping trolley would be made out of expensive stainless steel....


No idea mate.

i'm new to all this stuff and ive no clue on cost of materials other than theyre charging me only a few squid for my tubing! lol ;)
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 13 January 2015, 13:51:05
Do you really think that something as disposable as a shopping trolley would be made out of expensive stainless steel....


No idea mate.

i'm new to all this stuff and ive no clue on cost of materials other than theyre charging me only a few squid for my tubing! lol ;)

The real answer is I watched a How Its Made where they had the humble shopping trolley on it.

As soon as you talk Stainless costs go up.
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 January 2015, 13:52:49
Do you really think that something as disposable as a shopping trolley would be made out of expensive stainless steel....


No idea mate.

i'm new to all this stuff and ive no clue on cost of materials other than theyre charging me only a few squid for my tubing! lol ;)

The real answer is I watched a How Its Made where they had the humble shopping trolley on it.

As soon  s you talk Stainless costs go up.

Got ya! ;)

i too watch those vids but mainly the car ones.

engine blocks starting as sand blast and then that crumbles off to reveal a beautiful block. love it!!! :)
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: kev2b4 on 13 January 2015, 13:56:33
Current prices  (come down a little in the last 6 months)

Carbon steel -- $644/tonne
304 SS        -- $2754/tonne  ( note 304 goes rusty in seawater, 316 better but costs more )

Best is 310S  high temp oxidation resistant - ( like what I've got on my bench top!)
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 January 2015, 14:01:07
ooooh that is more expensive!!!!!!

i suppose thatas the price for sh*t not rusting!
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: kev2b4 on 13 January 2015, 14:06:32
c276 Hastalloy  -last time bought some ( a few/many years ago ) was about "£20,000/tonne,
800H, and inconnel less expensive  - but depends on application

But if it is free , and stays shiny'ish then will fit on my bench top  ( was a pig to drill holes in , as it work hardens)
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: scimmy_man on 14 January 2015, 09:11:08
ooooh that is more expensive!!!!!!

i suppose thatas the price for sh*t not rusting!

no it still rusts, its just STAIN less
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: Webby the Bear on 14 January 2015, 09:26:14
ooooh that is more expensive!!!!!!

i suppose thatas the price for sh*t not rusting!

no it still rusts, its just STAIN less

Thats odd cos i remember watching a documentary on the Deloreon and they said then that stainless doesnt rust hence why they're all in superb condition?????
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: aaronjb on 14 January 2015, 17:45:04
Except for the chassis underneath the body which usually dissolves into a little pile of rust.. ;)

Everything corrodes - the only difference is the rate at which it corrodes :)
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: Webby the Bear on 14 January 2015, 17:47:34
Except for the chassis underneath the body which usually dissolves into a little pile of rust.. ;)

Everything corrodes - the only difference is the rate at which it corrodes :)

 :y :y :y :y :y
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: Nick W on 14 January 2015, 17:48:10
Except for the chassis underneath the body which usually dissolves into a little pile of rust.. ;)




That's part of the allergic reaction to the Renault engine.
Title: Re: Engine stand question...
Post by: Kevin Wood on 14 January 2015, 18:00:18
Except for the chassis underneath the body which usually dissolves into a little pile of rust.. ;)




That's part of the allergic reaction to the Renault engine.

Yep, they put it at the wrong end of the car for the self-applying total-loss automatic undersealing system to work. ;D