Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Busker75 on 27 January 2015, 21:29:56

Title: cam cover needed
Post by: Busker75 on 27 January 2015, 21:29:56
Hi all....doing the ild cam gaskets again after buy cheap ones of eBay!!!!  :'( :'( any way i am going to get some vx ones this time....thing is i have a damaged passenger side cover so does anyone know where i can get one??? really don't fancy shedding out from vx.... :-\
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: Steve B on 27 January 2015, 22:05:52
So what we looking at for a set of cam cover gaskets  :-\ :-\ ... Someone on here tried (think its called german parts or something) there cam cover gaskets and said they are not leaking yet...Cannot remember who it was
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: Entwood on 27 January 2015, 22:09:48
Cam covers included in the list that's just gone up in the sales section ..

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=128549.0

:)
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 27 January 2015, 22:10:17
So what we looking at for a set of cam cover gaskets  :-\ :-\ ... Someone on here tried (think its called german parts or something) there cam cover gaskets and said they are not leaking yet...Cannot remember who it was
It's about £70 for a set genuine, I wouldn't take the chances given the work involved especially on the 246 bank

Yes it's quick to slap some new gaskets in, but to fit them squeaky clean and dry takes some time.... why do it twice?

The 3.2, before it's all built back up, will have new GM gaskets without fail, especialy while I don't have any pesky looms etc in the way :y
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: Steve B on 27 January 2015, 22:12:10
Cam covers included in the list that's just gone up in the sales section ..

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=128549.0

:)
That is twice you have got it wrong tonight  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: Busker75 on 27 January 2015, 22:23:10
Cam covers included in the list that's just gone up in the sales section ..

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=128549.0

:)



are the 3L cam covers the same size as the 2.5?
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: Entwood on 27 January 2015, 22:23:56
Cam covers included in the list that's just gone up in the sales section ..

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=128549.0

:)
That is twice you have got it wrong tonight  ;D ;D ;D

which bit of ...

V6 cam covers (not warped) - £40 collected, £50 posted.

is wrong ???
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: Busker75 on 27 January 2015, 22:28:43
hi entwood cheers for that....was just wondering if the 3l v6 would fit the 2.5???    if they do am on to it   :)
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: Entwood on 27 January 2015, 22:33:48
Cam covers for ALL V6's are the same ..

part no 55351453 - right hand

part no 55351452 - left hand with oil filler aperture

according to my EPC .... but get confirmation from someone who knows more than me ...

:)
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: Busker75 on 27 January 2015, 22:38:06
Cheers....i did think that but thinking is expensive    :-[
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 27 January 2015, 22:40:15
Cam covers for ALL V6's are the same ..

part no 55351453 - right hand

part no 55351452 - left hand with oil filler aperture

according to my EPC .... but get confirmation from someone who knows more than me ...

:)

The 2.6 and 3.2 V6 Engines are significantly different to the 2.5 and 3.0 V6 due to the fact the former use coil packs per bank, which bolt directly to the cylinder head, whereas the latter utilises an earlier design incorporating HT leads :y
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: Entwood on 27 January 2015, 22:46:57
Cam covers for ALL V6's are the same ..

part no 55351453 - right hand

part no 55351452 - left hand with oil filler aperture

according to my EPC .... but get confirmation from someone who knows more than me ...

:)

The 2.6 and 3.2 V6 Engines are significantly different to the 2.5 and 3.0 V6 due to the fact the former use coil packs per bank, which bolt directly to the cylinder head, whereas the latter utilises an earlier design incorporating HT leads :y

ahhh  .. right ... further delving into EPC ...

part no 55351453 - right hand

part no 55351452 - left hand with oil filler aperture

are the 2.6 / 3.2 covers ...

90501637

and 90501638 

are the 2.5 / 3.0 covers

so thanks to James we see that 3.0 will fit 2.5 ... :)
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 27 January 2015, 22:54:22
Yes 3.0 and 2.5 both covers and gaskets are entirely interchangeable..... :y :y
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: Steve B on 27 January 2015, 23:06:23
Cam covers included in the list that's just gone up in the sales section ..

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=128549.0

:)
That is twice you have got it wrong tonight  ;D ;D ;D

which bit of ...

V6 cam covers (not warped) - £40 collected, £50 posted.

is wrong ???
Nothing. :-[ :-[ Ive looked again you were correct and i was wrong  ;D Thought he was after one cam cover gasket..

My Apologies mr Entwood  :y
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: Entwood on 27 January 2015, 23:09:38
Cam covers included in the list that's just gone up in the sales section ..

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=128549.0

:)
That is twice you have got it wrong tonight  ;D ;D ;D

which bit of ...

V6 cam covers (not warped) - £40 collected, £50 posted.

is wrong ???
Nothing. :-[ :-[ Ive looked again you were correct and i was wrong  ;D Thought he was after one cam cover gasket..

My Apologies mr Entwood  :y

nay problems ...  ;) ;)
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: 05omegav6 on 27 January 2015, 23:51:12
Later 2.5/3.0 camcovers include the fixings for coilpacks, which might suggest that the 3.2/2.6 ones will also fit perfectly... ::)
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 27 January 2015, 23:55:28
Later 2.5/3.0 camcovers include the fixings for coilpacks, which might suggest that the 3.2/2.6 ones will also fit perfectly... ::)

This is incorrect

Later 2.5 and 3.0 HEADS have the bolt hole fixings for the 2.6 and 3.2 coil packs, but the 2.5 and 3.0 cam covers are totally different to the 2.6 and 3.2 ones
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 27 January 2015, 23:58:32
Later 2.5/3.0 camcovers include the fixings for coilpacks, which might suggest that the 3.2/2.6 ones will also fit perfectly... ::)

This is incorrect

Later 2.5 and 3.0 HEADS have the bolt hole fixings for the 2.6 and 3.2 cam covers, but the 2.5 and 3.0 cam covers are totally different to the 2.6 and 3.2 ones

They are easily distinguishable because the 2.5 and 3.0 ones have round holes for HT leads, whereas the 2.6 and 3.2 ones have square apertures for the coil packs...
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: 05omegav6 on 28 January 2015, 00:03:32
Ah ok the later 3.0 Catera camcovers must be 2.6/3.2 ones then ::)

Given as that's the only reason the later 2.5/3.0 heads have the coil pack holes...

(http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/1922/401/29802700008_large.jpg)
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 28 January 2015, 00:07:21
Ah ok the later 3.0 Catera camcovers must be 2.6/3.2 ones then ::)

Given as that's the only reason the later 2.5/3.0 heads have the coil pack holes...

(http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/1922/401/29802700008_large.jpg)

The pic you have posted there is a drive by wire engine which utilises 2.6/3.2 cam covers and a coil pack per bank

In omega form, there was never a 3.0 drive by wire engine.

Therefore in omega terms, omega 2.6 or 3.2 cam covers will NOT fit a 3.0 omega

Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: 05omegav6 on 28 January 2015, 00:18:53
They're the same heads on a variation of the same block.

Of course the Omega B was sold as a Chevrolet and a Cadillac, both with DBW 3.0 engines. But no, because the badge says different you insist on splitting hairs...
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 28 January 2015, 00:28:49
They're the same heads on a variation of the same block.

Of course the Omega B was sold as a Chevrolet and a Cadillac, both with DBW 3.0 engines. But no, because the badge says different you insist on splitting hairs...

I'm not splitting hairs,

The op wants cam covers for a 3.0 OMEGA

I have (correctly) informed him that cam covers from a 2.6 or 3.2 OMEGA will not fit

Which is the correct advice!

The fact the 3.2 covers may fit a 3.0 DBW catera is totally irrelevant

There was never a 3.0 omega in DBW form

This is an OMEGA forum. The OP is hardly likely to source parts from a breaking Catera. I therefore maintain that 2.6 or 3.2 cam covers from an OMEGA are not suitable for a 3.0 OMEGA



Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: 05omegav6 on 28 January 2015, 00:46:52
Which is wrong.
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 28 January 2015, 00:58:27
Which is wrong.

Al,to clarify, are you saying 2.6 or 3.2 cam covers, on a coil pack per bank setup, will fit the posters 2.5 omega with ht leads?
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: 05omegav6 on 28 January 2015, 01:17:07
Yes.

Both have 3 plugs per bank in exactly the same place. All the hardware is in exactly the same place. Hell, even the gaskets are interchangeable. The DBW 3.0 is living proof of this.
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 28 January 2015, 01:30:44
Yes.

Both have 3 plugs per bank in exactly the same place. All the hardware is in exactly the same place. Hell, even the gaskets are interchangeable. The DBW 3.0 is living proof of this.

But there is no DBW 3.0 omega?

Therefore covers for a DBW omega/Cadillac, will not fit a 2.5/3.0 omega with a ht lead setup...


Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: 05omegav6 on 28 January 2015, 02:00:44
Yes.

Both have 3 plugs per bank in exactly the same place. All the hardware is in exactly the same place. Hell, even the gaskets are interchangeable. The DBW 3.0 is living proof of this.

But there is no DBW 3.0 omega?

Therefore covers for a DBW omega/Cadillac, will not fit a 2.5/3.0 omega with a ht lead setup...



So the Catera is the Omega Bs imaginary friend then...

Ok, put it another way... are the plug wells on an early 2.5/3.0 head round?
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 28 January 2015, 02:04:56
Yes.

Both have 3 plugs per bank in exactly the same place. All the hardware is in exactly the same place. Hell, even the gaskets are interchangeable. The DBW 3.0 is living proof of this.

But there is no DBW 3.0 omega?

Therefore covers for a DBW omega/Cadillac, will not fit a 2.5/3.0 omega with a ht lead setup...



So the Catera is the Omega Bs imaginary friend then...

Ok, put it another way... are the plug wells on an early 2.5/3.0 head round?

Of course not , aside of the addition of the threads to secure coil packs on later heads, the plug setup on the heads themselves are identical?

But, by fitting individual ht leads to camcovers designed to take coil packs, they will not clip in correctly and risk poor connections and water ingress..
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: 05omegav6 on 28 January 2015, 02:20:53
Yes.

Both have 3 plugs per bank in exactly the same place. All the hardware is in exactly the same place. Hell, even the gaskets are interchangeable. The DBW 3.0 is living proof of this.

But there is no DBW 3.0 omega?

Therefore covers for a DBW omega/Cadillac, will not fit a 2.5/3.0 omega with a ht lead setup...



So the Catera is the Omega Bs imaginary friend then...

Ok, put it another way... are the plug wells on an early 2.5/3.0 head round?

Of course not , aside of the addition of the threads to secure coil packs on later heads, the plug setup on the heads themselves are identical?

But, by fitting individual ht leads to camcovers designed to take coil packs, they will not clip in correctly and risk poor connections and water ingress..
So what you're suggesting is that the ht leads aren't a positive fit on the plugs? But instead that they are held in position but the camcovers?

As for water ingress, any water in the plugwells would be evaporated off as steam as soon as the engine is warmed... assuming the scuttle was poorly sealed in the first place ::)
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: dbug on 28 January 2015, 02:22:06
Look at post #11 - different part nos for cable and dbw cam covers.  As said we are not a Catera forum - op has a 2.5 cable Omega, based in UK.

Can confirm though that gaskets from AGP were fitted by me to our 2.6 V6 (drivers bank) and genuine Vx to passenger bank last year and to date no issues.
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 28 January 2015, 02:26:37
Look at post #11 - different part nos for cable and dbw cam covers.  As said we are not a Catera forum - op has a 2.5 cable Omega, based in UK.

I think that's the bottom line.

The parts are indeed different, and whilst a DBW cam cover will keep the oil in on a 2.5 engine, it's not the right part and IMO a bit of a bodge
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: 05omegav6 on 28 January 2015, 02:32:24
Look at post #11 - different part nos for cable and dbw cam covers.  As said we are not a Catera forum - op has a 2.5 cable Omega, based in UK.

Can confirm though that gaskets from AGP were fitted by me to our 2.6 V6 (drivers bank) and genuine Vx to passenger bank last year and to date no issues.
Useful to know, as the AGP ones are a damn site cheaper :y

Thanks for the pointer btw, I read that earlier ::) Technically though, any 2.6/3.2camcover will fit any 2.5/3.0 head perfectly and be leak free. And the gaskets are equally interchangeable. :y
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 28 January 2015, 02:34:55
Look at post #11 - different part nos for cable and dbw cam covers.  As said we are not a Catera forum - op has a 2.5 cable Omega, based in UK.

Can confirm though that gaskets from AGP were fitted by me to our 2.6 V6 (drivers bank) and genuine Vx to passenger bank last year and to date no issues.
Useful to know, as the AGP ones are a damn site cheaper :y

Thanks for the pointer btw, I read that earlier ::) Technically though, any 2.6/3.2camcover will fit any 2.5/3.0 head perfectly and be leak free. And the gaskets are equally interchangeable. :y

Apart from the very late omega DBW models, which use a single gasket instead of 2 separate ones per camcover ;D :y
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: 05omegav6 on 28 January 2015, 02:37:30
A manufacturing quirk rather than a technical point...  ::)
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: zirk on 28 January 2015, 02:47:49
Munch, munch,.....      sorry,  cant sleep (with the sound of Pop Corn in the background).  ;)
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: 05omegav6 on 28 January 2015, 02:52:07
Munch, munch,.....      sorry,  cant sleep (with the sound of Pop Corn in the background).  ;)
Bite me... ;D ;)
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 28 January 2015, 02:54:38
A manufacturing quirk rather than a technical point...  ::)

Most v6 cam cover gaskets are part number 90511451,

The later single gasket per bank on very late v6 models is part number 55351456

I've no idea why vx chose to do that so late on though
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: robson on 28 January 2015, 16:47:31
doesnt the double gasket have a joining rubber which acts as a seal to stop water or oil ingress?
Title: Re: cam cover needed
Post by: Steve B on 28 January 2015, 16:58:32
Are we talking about this  :-\ If so what year onwards does this go on  :-\

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/70807181/double%20cam%20gasket.jpg)