Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: tigers_gonads on 14 March 2015, 13:10:29
-
Servicing the rear brakes / handbrake / cable.
What size is the centre nylock nut that holds the rear drum onto the shaft / back plate ?
Looks about 28mm but not sure :-\ Whatever it is, I ain't got one so before I order a nice new impact socket for my collection, can somebody confirm the size please :)
Also the handbrake lever has a distinct lack of spring on it but i'll be dammed if I can find one ::)
For certain, its not on the back of the cable / drum :-\
TIA :)
-
Mr gonads.......a reputable VX dealer will happily sort this out for £85 P/H plus VAT. :y
-
Mr gonads.......a reputable VX dealer will happily sort this out for £85 P/H plus VAT. :y
Never heard of one of them ;D ;D ;D
-
Funnily enough I replaced a Corsa C hanbrake cable on Thursday @ the garage.
You pull up the gaiter round the handbrake and slacken the 10mm nut on the threaded rod. You may find adjusting this (tightening it down) will take out the slack you have.
Then if you want to replace the cable (the one at work had severed on the N/S) you lever out the securing cylindrical things in the middle of the car underneath. Then cylindrical things on each side about 10cm along the cable from the drum. And remove the whole thing and replace.
Try not to break the securing clips as I did ::)
-
Already took up a little slack using the 10mm nut :y
The cable looks pretty new as is the off side rear bering from the looks of the dust cap.
The car is new to us so just working my way through the essentials and putting a few little thing right :y
The off side handbrake shoe need adjusting. Probably never set up when the bering was done :(
As always with a new car to me, i'm going to pull off the drums and grind any lip off them / clean them up / grease where necessary before rebuilding it all back up again hence the socket needed for the hub nut :y
Cheers anyway Webby :)
-
In that case mate you'll probably find it is the adjustment of the shoes that's playing the havoc, assuming there's plenty of meat still on them.
I was always told that when they're set correctly (and the drum is placed firmly on) you should be able to spin it one full revolution before it stops on its own.
-
In that case mate you'll probably find it is the adjustment of the shoes that's playing the havoc, assuming there's plenty of meat still on them.
I was always told that when they're set correctly (and the drum is placed firmly on) you should be able to spin it one full revolution before it stops on its own.
That makes sense mate :y
Just need a bloody socket that fits the hub nut now ;D ;D
-
I brought these...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sealey-AK5816M-Impact-Socket-Metric/dp/B0035F9WXI
At least you'llhave them forever :y
-
Got a similar set somewhere
Got a feeling my old man has nicked borrowed them and he is floating around the Caribbean near the panama canal at the moment :-X :-X
-
I'm 99% sure its a 27mm socket you need.
Lee.
-
Thanks Lee :y
A few conflicting opinions of there in t'nternet land.
Some say 27mm, some say 28mm and a few say 1" 1/16 is a better fit ::)
-
It's definitely a 27mm. I'm doing one as I type.
-
In that case mate you'll probably find it is the adjustment of the shoes that's playing the havoc, assuming there's plenty of meat still on them.
I was always told that when they're set correctly (and the drum is placed firmly on) you should be able to spin it one full revolution before it stops on its own.
That makes no bloody sense at all lol.
-
Cheers Bud
Ordered one last night but the corsa is going on the back burner for a week or so ..............
The B4's have finally chuffin arrived for the omega so when the chassis paint arrives, its paint / replace most of the front suspension time :y :y :D :D
Edit to say i've got the rear to sort too ::)
-
In that case mate you'll probably find it is the adjustment of the shoes that's playing the havoc, assuming there's plenty of meat still on them.
I was always told that when they're set correctly (and the drum is placed firmly on) you should be able to spin it one full revolution before it stops on its own.
That makes no bloody sense at all lol.
What?!! You're not challenging Webby, surely? ;D
-
Right, the nut is 27mm.
THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS TO SLACKEN THE HANDBRAKE CABLE RIGHT OFF FIRST.
So with the handbrake released, pop the drums off and clean up well (grind the lip off the drums), make sure the self adjusters are assembled correctly (so the angled actuator is touching the toothed adjuster on the worm gear)....amazing how many times you see this wrong.
Next check all is free including the adjuster.
Check behind the wheel cylinder boots for signs of leakage.
Pre set the clearance with the adjusters so there is some slop.
Re-fit the drum and tighten the nut (180Nm rings a bell but do check).
Now actuate the foot brake repeatedly, you should hear the rear drums clicking as the self adjusters operate.
Only when this is done should you adjust the handbrake cable and there MUST be some slack with the handbrake released or the self adjusters will no operate.
As Webby says, cable replacement is dead easy and the parts very cheap.
The self adjusters on these work VERY well IF you do the job correctly...... (and hence why there are loads out there not working pmsl)
-
Understood :y
Thanks for that Mark :)
-
In that case mate you'll probably find it is the adjustment of the shoes that's playing the havoc, assuming there's plenty of meat still on them.
I was always told that when they're set correctly (and the drum is placed firmly on) you should be able to spin it one full revolution before it stops on its own.
That makes no bloody sense at all lol.
Only going on what I was told in school when I posed the question 'how d'ya know when they're adjusted correctly'
-
In that case mate you'll probably find it is the adjustment of the shoes that's playing the havoc, assuming there's plenty of meat still on them.
I was always told that when they're set correctly (and the drum is placed firmly on) you should be able to spin it one full revolution before it stops on its own.
That makes no bloody sense at all lol.
Only going on what I was told in school when I posed the question 'how d'ya know when they're adjusted correctly'
The correct answer is to do the job correctly and let the auto adjusters do their job :y
Only exceptions to the rule are old manually adjusted setups like Land Rovers where you adjust until they wont turn then back off 3 clicks
-
Ok Mark. . . Let's start from the beginning as you know I'm thick as horse shit and you need to dumb this down for me lol
I replace shoes on say this corsa c . . . The adjuster has been backed off all the way to allow a release of tension on the springs and thus it's easier to remove them.
So. I've put new shoes on. And the adjusters loose. I crank up the adjuster til it's hard to get the drum on. I now know I need to back off the adjustment. So I back it off and now I get my drum on. How do you fine tune the adjustment from here . . . . .
-
In the case of Corsa C no (and pretty much every other car made in the last 25 years which uses drums for braking and not just handbrake :y), as you cant get near the adjuster with the drum in place.
Hence why when removed you need to remove the wear lip from the drum.
Then you do as you say e.g. fit parts (correctly) fit drum with adjuster backed off.
From this point its down to the auto adjuster, so pumping the foot brake actuates the shoes hydraulically and in doing so, the adjuster actuates to take up the free play.
All with the handbrake cable with plenty of slack in it......and its this last part many spanner grippers don't appreciate.....you cant, on any setup, adjust a handbrake with the cable setting, you can only compensate for a stretched cable..... :y
Simples
-
Oooook, I think I see where I'm misunderstanding.
So. With new shoes on and adjuster backed right off so you can easily slip the drum on, you then pump the pedal which actuates the auto adjuster and AUTOMATICALLY sets the shoes in the correct place?
So when I did the shoes on my ma's Ford I could have simply jumped in with the adjuster in any loose position and jammed the foot brake a bunch of times and then took up the handbrake cable slack with the nut adjuster?
If that's the case. . . Why did the head mechanic not do this on a recent van we had in? And this guy knows his onions.? Is it possible he thought the auto adjusters don't work? I vaguely remember hearing him say summat like that. . .?
-
He thought that they don't work, or cba to fix them? :-X
-
I can't say for sure cos Im struggling to remember exactly what he said. But he definitely did the drum, then off and adjust, back on etc.
And when you say Cba to fix them..... How do you do that exactly?
-
I can't say for sure cos Im struggling to remember exactly what he said. But he definitely did the drum, then off and adjust, back on etc.
And when you say Cba to fix them..... How do you do that exactly?
Easy feet up, kettle on and kick back... ;D
-
I can't say for sure cos Im struggling to remember exactly what he said. But he definitely did the drum, then off and adjust, back on etc.
And when you say Cba to fix them..... How do you do that exactly?
Easy feet up, kettle on and kick back... ;D
Sorry Webby, that was a flippant answer... Can't/Couldn't Be Arsed :y
-
I think webby meant how do you fix them, not what does cba mean ;)
-
I think webby meant how do you fix them, not what does cba mean ;)
I hope so, but was how I read it ;)
-
I think webby meant how do you fix them, not what does cba mean ;)
This ::) ;D
-
I think webby meant how do you fix them, not what does cba mean ;)
This ::) ;D
Just like Mark said...
Right, the nut is 27mm.
THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS TO SLACKEN THE HANDBRAKE CABLE RIGHT OFF FIRST.
So with the handbrake released, pop the drums off and clean up well (grind the lip off the drums), make sure the self adjusters are assembled correctly (so the angled actuator is touching the toothed adjuster on the worm gear)....amazing how many times you see this wrong.
Next check all is free including the adjuster.
Check behind the wheel cylinder boots for signs of leakage.
Pre set the clearance with the adjusters so there is some slop.
Re-fit the drum and tighten the nut (180Nm rings a bell but do check).
Now actuate the foot brake repeatedly, you should hear the rear drums clicking as the self adjusters operate.
Only when this is done should you adjust the handbrake cable and there MUST be some slack with the handbrake released or the self adjusters will no operate.
As Webby says, cable replacement is dead easy and the parts very cheap.
The self adjusters on these work VERY well IF you do the job correctly...... (and hence why there are loads out there not working pmsl)
:y
-
Oooook, I think I see where I'm misunderstanding.
So. With new shoes on and adjuster backed right off so you can easily slip the drum on, you then pump the pedal which actuates the auto adjuster and AUTOMATICALLY sets the shoes in the correct place?
So when I did the shoes on my ma's Ford I could have simply jumped in with the adjuster in any loose position and jammed the foot brake a bunch of times and then took up the handbrake cable slack with the nut adjuster?
If that's the case. . . Why did the head mechanic not do this on a recent van we had in? And this guy knows his onions.? Is it possible he thought the auto adjusters don't work? I vaguely remember hearing him say summat like that. . .?
The clue is in his title lol....he does not understand and probably could not explain how they work :y
But yes, when you do the job properly, the auto adjuster will take the slack up correctly....and this is important or the dam things will need manually setting regularly as the shoes wear and if they are not working its a poor quality job........ :y
At the factory they wont be manually setting them
Ask him about the handbrake cable and how it must be when released......see if he has any understanding.
-
So, a picture paints a thousand words
(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s52/mt00/DSC00943.jpg)
So the above is a Corsa handbrake mechanism and is now pretty common on many marks but, is good for demonstrating how the auto adjuster works.
So when you apply the handbrake, the large lever on the right shoe is pulled and pushes the shoe towards the drum, the top link/adjuster then simultaneously pushes the left shoe onto the drum.
To auto adjust, you need to look at the adjusting pawl on the left, this can be seen as the bent bit of metal with its end resting on the left end of the link bar/adjuster.
When you press the foot brake, both shoes move outwards, this adjusting pawl moves with them and its end moves slightly up and above the link bar/adjuster. As the brake is released, this adjusting pawl travels down again and rotates the toothed wheel at the end of the adjuster which, over a number of presses, lengthens the link bar/adjuster and takes up the slack.
Lets consider now what happens when the hand brake cable is to tight.
The actuator lever on the right is always under tension and the consequently, the adjusting pawl sits higher than it should at rest, as a result, the toothed wheel can not be rotated.....
-
Ok, thanks Mark. Apologies I missed your previous explanation of the mechanism and the correct set up :y
So considering what you've said and how we did the job on the van I mentioned. . . . The handbrake cable adjuster wasn't undone; the handbrake merely released. The drums then pulled off, new shoes fitted, and then the drum refitted and shoes adjusted manually until they 'felt' right.
Taking in to consideration the operation of the auto adjuster that you kindly explained. . . The adjustment will never be correct because we didn't leave that slight amount of slack by not slackening it in the first place. . . Although in theory the shoes under normal braking (not handbrake) will get corrected by the pumping of the foot brake. . . But obviously we've wasted a bunch of time on unnecessarily manually adjusting?
I hope tha makes sense. But either way I now totally understand all you've written so thanks for that :y
-
And of course the auto adjuster won't work because the cable is too taught thus not allowing the auto adjuster to do its job.
Got ya :y
-
And of course the auto adjuster won't work because the cable is too taught thus not allowing the auto adjuster to do its job.
Got ya :y
That's the fundamental bit :y
So what has been done is a half job, the van will go out and in twelve months time return due to the handbrake not working well (the shoes will wear and the auto adjuster cant compensate......seen this MANY times on Transvestite Vans
The drums will normally just pop off (or may require some persuasion if there is a significant wear lip).
-
Cheers Mark. :y :y :y