Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Gaffers on 09 April 2015, 13:16:11
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I stumbled across this and found it fascinating. I especially like the ability to modify the road markings according to the situation and alerting the drive of dangers ahead.
http://www.solarroadways.com/intro.shtml (http://www.solarroadways.com/intro.shtml)
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A lot of miss informed bull shit in the article but seems a reasonable idea.....no idea what would happen to them if driven over by 40 ton trucks thousands of times a day
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Yeah I dont like the video myself and some of the claims are.....well.......
but the concept is interesting and if the tech can withstand the beating then wow!
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Surface grip performance and frost damage would be but two concerns :-\
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It's what bugs me about design - so much 'pie in the sky' or, ok, it may be technically feasible, but no-one considers what would happen in the real world, of snow, ice, punishment, vandalism, deterioration through age etc.. as Taxi Al points out.
Peugeot Onyx concept car with bare copper body panels. When the designer was asked "Have you thought about how the body will age, and weather, and start to look tatty and worn very quickly" after a long pause, and a blank face the answer was "yes" Sort of like for 130 years we've been painting body panels, and half a dozen people with sunglasses decide 'ahh, no, that was clearly a mistake, let's not bother with paint. All them of farts painting their cars? Ha! We know better! And copper is a dead cheap, and in no way a soft metal, it doesn't work-harden, and is the very perfect material to make a bodyshell out of.'
It feels like we're heading toward a future where unless every surface we interact with doesn't have a touchscreen, electric motor or some kind of changing appearance, then it's for the scrap heap. And all in the name of saving the planet, too. But the two are incompatible. It's like I always wonder why electric vehicles are always festooned with ambient lighting, and touchscreens and LCD screen all over - um... doesn't all that lot use electricity - that the car should ideally be using for frward motion? Now an electric Caterham with worm drive speedo and nothing else, that would work! Every amp would be used efficiently.
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Isn't that how we advance though? By trying new things? Sure they may not work first time or even at all but nothing ventured nothing gained.
It sounds like they had some issues in the pilot but learnt from them and adapted some things.
Call me a risk-taker but I am genuinely interested in this.
(oh and if the panels are heated like they say then there would be no frost damage, or salt for that manner.... :y)
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Be interesting to see what they look like after a year of Florida sun... :-\
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Isn't that how we advance though? By trying new things? Sure they may not work first time or even at all but nothing ventured nothing gained.
It sounds like they had some issues in the pilot but learnt from them and adapted some things.
Call me a risk-taker but I am genuinely interested in this.
(oh and if the panels are heated like they say then there would be no frost damage, or salt for that manner.... :y)
Absolutely agree with that, yes. :y
It's more that, well I wish there was a bit more of what I could call the Jurassic Park level of thinking in design.. that wonderful line "we were so caught up in whether we could we didn't stop to think whether we should" and that's a good way of looking at the world, in my humble. We can do many things n this world, and technology marches on, of course. But the chief priority for us as a species is to be kind to the rock we're all living on - to preserve the life that resides here, be it human or other animals.
If this technology means the roads are safer, that is fine. But it must do it in a way that offers a lower carbon footprint than that already generated by conventional roadbuilding methods - and ideally a fair whack less. Consider the Hollywood Actor that buys a new Prius every year to be 'green' and 'save the planet' - year, but they have a corvette in the garage, too, and in any case, the thing costs far more to produce in the first place than a normal car, and doesn't offset its own imprint on the planet via reduced tailpipe emissions for several years. So buying a new Prius every year actually costs the planet.
Not damning this technology, not at all, it's very exciting. But we're all scrabbling to invent new greener, safer ways of doing things - which in turn means throwing out the old, still perfectly serviceable technology it claims to replace. But often keeping something going by proper maintenance and care, like an Omega for instance, is often greener than simply disposing of it, on the claim that it is 'recyclable' We had many a debate over these issues with lecturers, and the true impact of new tech, which offers alleged golden eggs.
If I were asked to design a new safer road surface, I'd probably start looking at finding a means of pulping, grinding certain types of landfill - perhaps even crumbing plastic, something we have an inexhaustible supply of - and mixing it with a natural bonding agent such as tar, or maybe look toward something less noxious / sustainable. A road sign by the side of the road which can change like a TV screen has massive advantages in terms of ease of maintenance, compared with a road surface that does the same, too.
As for glowing roads that alert us to roe deer in the road, the Mk. 1 Eyeball still has a function, and in any case the road scanning technologies / self-driving cars are literally around the corner. If they're not careful this road technology may get made obsolete like the Forth and Clyde canal, intended to help sail vessels circumvent the hazardous trip around Scotland which was opened just in time for the invention of Steam ships, or the Minidisc, three seconds before mp3s come about.
I purely speculate, and as these words shall last for as long as this is hosted, I could in fact be marking myself down for all time as Betamax man, here :y
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Ah yes, the mk1 eyeball is doing such a good job ::) ;D ;D ;D
I hear you on all your points. On the carbon footprint front, according to my current client the cement and aggregates industry produce about 7% of all the global air pollution........ :o
Mortar aint that green :-\
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Now an electric Caterham with worm drive speedo and nothing else, that would work! Every amp would be used efficiently.
This close enough for you? http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/289018/electric_westfield_iracer_performance_figures.html ;)
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That's raised a very good point - and one of the things on my 'ten things I'd do to change the world' list.... cement / mortar / general building materials. That criminal amount of pollution used in making a ton of cement is horrific. There was a Grand Designs a few years back, and they were making a super green house, build into the landscape, triple glazed, grass on the roof, all the LEDs and geor thermal you could fit in. However, there was a snag... they used several (by several I mean dozen and dozens) of tons of concrete. I did a bit of googling, and found what amount of carbon is released in order to produce than amount of concrete. They might as well have bought a 1930s Semi, and left the engine running on a Merc AMG in the front garden for 6 months, and they'd still have been more green to the planet ::)
So wholeheartedly with you on that, I really want to come up with a use for landfill. I've often speculated 'imagine what would happen if we found a use for vehicle exhaust gases' in the same way Marmite is a bi-product of the brewing industry.
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Now an electric Caterham with worm drive speedo and nothing else, that would work! Every amp would be used efficiently.
This close enough for you? http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/289018/electric_westfield_iracer_performance_figures.html ;)
Dammit I said Caterham!!! Haha, no, but seriously, exactly that. Good find, and Lotus are playing with it, too. Rolls Royce were, but not sure if they're actually going ahead with it or not. Personally I think it works very well on a luxury car, where smoothness and lack of vibration are paramount.
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Now an electric Caterham with worm drive speedo and nothing else, that would work! Every amp would be used efficiently.
This close enough for you? http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/289018/electric_westfield_iracer_performance_figures.html ;)
It'd certainly convince me to go the way of the milk float. 8)
As for the road surface things, I've got a radical idea. Take them away from the snow, salt, sh!te and wear on the road surface, put them on sticks and call them signs. (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26795734/Smilies/kaffeetrinker_2.gif)
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I always thought "being green" was just another way of saying "getting to show everyone you have more money than them while feeling smug about it" (except Matt's milk float, obviously, because he's bigger and harder than me :P ;) ) - as you mentioned about celebs with their Priapisms and people who build that kind of pretentious "eco home"..
And when you look at recycling you can see some shocking things; car battery recycling where the batteries are sent to a third world country to be smashed apart by children with hammers so the lead can be rescued thus exposing them to the risk of chemical burns, poisoning the ground and ultimately them with lead, or electronic recycling that is sent to China so tiny quantities of gold can be extracted while the rest turns the water courses black with toxic chemicals.. meanwhile we (who sent it all there) get to feel pleased with ourselves for "saving the planet"..
Now an electric Caterham with worm drive speedo and nothing else, that would work! Every amp would be used efficiently.
This close enough for you? http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/289018/electric_westfield_iracer_performance_figures.html ;)
Dammit I said Caterham!!! Haha, no, but seriously, exactly that. Good find, and Lotus are playing with it, too. Rolls Royce were, but not sure if they're actually going ahead with it or not. Personally I think it works very well on a luxury car, where smoothness and lack of vibration are paramount.
;D I could have sworn Caterham had produced one as well, but I couldn't find that .. but you know, Caterham, Westfield .. that's like tomato tomato ;) ;D
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;D I could have sworn Caterham had produced one as well, but I couldn't find that .. but you know, Caterham, Westfield .. that's like tomato tomato ;) ;D
Nope. You don't want a Cateringvan. :P
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;D I could have sworn Caterham had produced one as well, but I couldn't find that .. but you know, Caterham, Westfield .. that's like tomato tomato ;) ;D
Nope. You want one of theses. :P
(http://m5.paperblog.com/i/52/528577/nissan-field-tests-zero-emission-electric-van-L-qMa27S.jpeg)
One electric catering van :y
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I always thought "being green" was just another way of saying "getting to show everyone you have more money than them while feeling smug about it" (except Matt's milk float, obviously, because he's bigger and harder than me :P ;) ) - as you mentioned about celebs with their Priapisms and people who build that kind of pretentious "eco home"..
And when you look at recycling you can see some shocking things; car battery recycling where the batteries are sent to a third world country to be smashed apart by children with hammers so the lead can be rescued thus exposing them to the risk of chemical burns, poisoning the ground and ultimately them with lead, or electronic recycling that is sent to China so tiny quantities of gold can be extracted while the rest turns the water courses black with toxic chemicals.. meanwhile we (who sent it all there) get to feel pleased with ourselves for "saving the planet"..
Now an electric Caterham with worm drive speedo and nothing else, that would work! Every amp would be used efficiently.
This close enough for you? http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/289018/electric_westfield_iracer_performance_figures.html ;)
Dammit I said Caterham!!! Haha, no, but seriously, exactly that. Good find, and Lotus are playing with it, too. Rolls Royce were, but not sure if they're actually going ahead with it or not. Personally I think it works very well on a luxury car, where smoothness and lack of vibration are paramount.
;D I could have sworn Caterham had produced one as well, but I couldn't find that .. but you know, Caterham, Westfield .. that's like tomato tomato ;) ;D
Ouch, don't let a Caterham owner hear you say that! They'll choke on their Red Bull! :y
Yes indeedy, again, this satisfaction we all get from shipping an AA battery all the way to China in order for someone to recover 1.3 microns of Ploponium or whatever, it's all maladjusted. There's other forms of recycling than the traditional 'pulp it and use it as filler in resin/plastic' perception. Resin which, incidentally, produces very noxious chemicals in its manufacture. I mean if you use a carrier bag twice, that's literally doubled it's initial expected design lifespan. If you turn the old kitchen table into a workbench for the garage for the next 20 years, that's recycling. If you nab an old box, wax it up and use it as a coffee table (as I'm doing soon) that's recycling. :y
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Nice idea, cant see it working in practice, well not for a public highway, around here the local authorities cant even sort out holes in tarmac, let alone fixing solar panel repairs, especially if someone decides 'some of them would look good on my roof'
As for personal driveways, a good possibility, why not solar heating within your drive, certainly make the plumbing a lot easier.
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[sensible stuff snipped] If you nab an old box, wax it up and use it as a coffee table (as I'm doing soon) that's recycling. :y
I think if you speak trendy that's actually "upcycling" and one step away from turning into Kirstie Alsopp :P
But yes, a lot more environmentally friendly than shipping that AA battery to China, as you say. Freecycle is great for giving unwanted things a second (or third, or fourth..) lease of life too, if you can bear dealing with the great unwashed - which is partly why a bunch of stuff got taken to the recycling bins at the tip by me last weekend! Although if I hadn't done that I would have missed the lady in the Audi who threw her car keys into the metal recycling bin and then asked the tip guys if they wouldn't mind pulling it all out (it's a 15' tall concrete bunker) to find them for her.. ;D ;D ;D
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[sensible stuff snipped] If you nab an old box, wax it up and use it as a coffee table (as I'm doing soon) that's recycling. :y
Actually, a friend of mine took so long to build a kit car that the chassis ended up used as a coffee table in his living room. Not sure if he's built it to this day. Sort of recycling. ;D
Oh, hello, Aaron! (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26795734/Smilies/whistling.gif)
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[sensible stuff snipped] If you nab an old box, wax it up and use it as a coffee table (as I'm doing soon) that's recycling. :y
I think if you speak trendy that's actually "upcycling" and one step away from turning into Kirstie Alsopp :P
But yes, a lot more environmentally friendly than shipping that AA battery to China, as you say. Freecycle is great for giving unwanted things a second (or third, or fourth..) lease of life too, if you can bear dealing with the great unwashed - which is partly why a bunch of stuff got taken to the recycling bins at the tip by me last weekend! Although if I hadn't done that I would have missed the lady in the Audi who threw her car keys into the metal recycling bin and then asked the tip guys if they wouldn't mind pulling it all out (it's a 15' tall concrete bunker) to find them for her.. ;D ;D ;D
haha! :y
Ugh, please don't tell me you used the word 'upcycling' and associated me with it! ;D this is one of them things people have been doing for years, just reusing, Womble-style. Like I mention about using the old table in the garage, but it's a mentality that seems to be dying out. Again, just reusing has now become, as you say, the 'upcycling' trend. Great, but a trend it is, like beards and vintage. Found an old 1960s solid wood table in the same skip (ironically this looks to have been used in the shed, as a workbench!) I'll replace the top, sand back all the peeling varnish, and it'll be good as new soon. The estate agents are getting refurbished up the road and there's a lovely wide bit of timber, probably part of the old window ledge, I'll see if I can get that one evening,as the able top :)
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[sensible stuff snipped] If you nab an old box, wax it up and use it as a coffee table (as I'm doing soon) that's recycling. :y
Actually, a friend of mine took so long to build a kit car that the chassis ended up used as a coffee table in his living room. Not sure if he's built it to this day. Sort of recycling. ;D
Oh, hello, Aaron! (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26795734/Smilies/whistling.gif)
:D :D :D :D
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I always thought "being green" was just another way of saying "getting to show everyone you have more money than them while feeling smug about it" (except Matt's milk float, obviously, because he's bigger and harder than me :P ;) ) - as you mentioned about celebs with their Priapisms and people who build that kind of pretentious "eco home"..
And when you look at recycling you can see some shocking things; car battery recycling where the batteries are sent to a third world country to be smashed apart by children with hammers so the lead can be rescued thus exposing them to the risk of chemical burns, poisoning the ground and ultimately them with lead, or electronic recycling that is sent to China so tiny quantities of gold can be extracted while the rest turns the water courses black with toxic chemicals.. meanwhile we (who sent it all there) get to feel pleased with ourselves for "saving the planet"..
My decision to get the Leaf was actually financial. It pretty much pays for itself and the guaranteed buy back price on the baloon deal pockets me about £2k (more if the market value is better) the fact it uses a battery and electric motors to move was secondary. True, I would not have considered it had I not tested the Tesla Model S but we were in the market for a new car and, after doing the sums, this one swayed us.
It's our daily runabout as 95% of my trips are within the 80 mile real-life round trip range. If going in to London I can charge and park on the street for 4 hours free and pay £10 a year for the congestion charge. When I calculated everything I reckon I actually save money despite the finance.
All that said I heard somewhere that it takes more energy to build a car than it will use in it's lifetime which if true means it is more environmentally friendly to keep an old car running.
You will note the other car on my drive is a 97 XJR6. :y
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I always thought "being green" was just another way of saying "getting to show everyone you have more money than them while feeling smug about it" (except Matt's milk float, obviously, because he's bigger and harder than me :P ;) ) - as you mentioned about celebs with their Priapisms and people who build that kind of pretentious "eco home"..
And when you look at recycling you can see some shocking things; car battery recycling where the batteries are sent to a third world country to be smashed apart by children with hammers so the lead can be rescued thus exposing them to the risk of chemical burns, poisoning the ground and ultimately them with lead, or electronic recycling that is sent to China so tiny quantities of gold can be extracted while the rest turns the water courses black with toxic chemicals.. meanwhile we (who sent it all there) get to feel pleased with ourselves for "saving the planet"..
My decision to get the Leaf was actually financial. It pretty much pays for itself and the guaranteed buy back price on the baloon deal pockets me about £2k (more if the market value is better) the fact it uses a battery and electric motors to move was secondary. True, I would not have considered it had I not tested the Tesla Model S but we were in the market for a new car and, after doing the sums, this one swayed us.
It's our daily runabout as 95% of my trips are within the 80 mile real-life round trip range. If going in to London I can charge and park on the street for 4 hours free and pay £10 a year for the congestion charge. When I calculated everything I reckon I actually save money despite the finance.
All that said I heard somewhere that it takes more energy to build a car than it will use in it's lifetime which if true means it is more environmentally friendly to keep an old car running.
You will note the other car on my drive is a 97 XJR6. :y
Amen to that! Electric vehicles of course have a place - and the 'local congestion' element is key. If every vehicle in a large city is zero-tailpipe emmission, then that's improving the roads significantly, not to mention the overall air quality.
Quite like the Leaf, actually. :) As you say, if you use it within the limits of it, as you do, then there is no issue.
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As a
MAMIL keen cyclist ::) air quality is an obvious plus point for me.
As for range, I have taken my Leaf as far as Tenby and Sheffield using the rapid chargers in the service stations. 8)
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[sensible stuff snipped] If you nab an old box, wax it up and use it as a coffee table (as I'm doing soon) that's recycling. :y
Actually, a friend of mine took so long to build a kit car that the chassis ended up used as a coffee table in his living room. Not sure if he's built it to this day. Sort of recycling. ;D
Oh, hello, Aaron! (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26795734/Smilies/whistling.gif)
Ooh, you bitch :P Shame it's true, though, eh! One day I'll find some motivation.. there's internet in the garage now (Cat5e, no less) so.. yeah, sofa calling :-[
Ugh, please don't tell me you used the word 'upcycling' and associated me with it! ;D
;D ;D Only because I knew it would be taken in the way it was meant ;) (Plus I do like to think about Kirstie Alsopp .. I have a problem, I know.)
My decision to get the Leaf was actually financial. It pretty much pays for itself and the guaranteed buy back price on the baloon deal pockets me about £2k (more if the market value is better) the fact it uses a battery and electric motors to move was secondary.
Indeed, I know from previous conversations that your choice was well researched and not particularly about saving the planet but rather what was the best choice for you personally :y Which, of course, is what sets you apart from celebrities who buy a Prius so they can show everyone how wonderfully environmentally responsible they are ;)
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:y All good points made, this forum at its best :)
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How about we stop burning coal, and burn pubic hair instead.Lets face it,there's lots of it,its easily accessible,and we don't really need it. ;D :D.
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I always thought "being green" was just another way of saying "getting to show everyone you have more money than them while feeling smug about it" (except Matt's milk float, obviously, because he's bigger and harder than me :P ;) ) - as you mentioned about celebs with their Priapisms and people who build that kind of pretentious "eco home"..
And when you look at recycling you can see some shocking things; car battery recycling where the batteries are sent to a third world country to be smashed apart by children with hammers so the lead can be rescued thus exposing them to the risk of chemical burns, poisoning the ground and ultimately them with lead, or electronic recycling that is sent to China so tiny quantities of gold can be extracted while the rest turns the water courses black with toxic chemicals.. meanwhile we (who sent it all there) get to feel pleased with ourselves for "saving the planet"..
My decision to get the Leaf was actually financial. It pretty much pays for itself and the guaranteed buy back price on the baloon deal pockets me about £2k (more if the market value is better) the fact it uses a battery and electric motors to move was secondary. True, I would not have considered it had I not tested the Tesla Model S but we were in the market for a new car and, after doing the sums, this one swayed us.
It's our daily runabout as 95% of my trips are within the 80 mile real-life round trip range. If going in to London I can charge and park on the street for 4 hours free and pay £10 a year for the congestion charge. When I calculated everything I reckon I actually save money despite the finance.
All that said I heard somewhere that it takes more energy to build a car than it will use in it's lifetime which if true means it is more environmentally friendly to keep an old car running.
You will note the other car on my drive is a 97 XJR6. :y
Me too - except my other vehicles are a '79 3litre TVR and a couple of 800cc motorbikes. I think the Leaf is a great little car - actually it's not so little and the range does me just fine for my 20 mile round trip to work. Omega 3.2 £25 a week in petrol, Leaf £3 in electricity. Only long run I ever do is up the M6 and the Ecotricity 30 min chargers are free.
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One of the problems with solar panels is that they use large amounts of energy to make them, so their EROEI is low and only happens towards the end of their practical life. This can be improved by using renewable energy to make the panels, but that ups the price.
As for CO2 emissions a degree or two is neither here nor there, it will not profoundly change the Northern hemisphere and end our civilization, but a 12degC drop is a life changer and overdue. ::) ::) ::)
A major problem with the drive for renewables is the cost which is driving high energy using industries to the US with their cheap gas prices. One of the reasons for the 2009 depression was energy prices, now fracking is providing cheap oil and gas, the US economy is growing well. The UK is doing okay, while the rest of the EU stagnates under the triple whammy of the Euro, high energy prices and anti-industry regulation.
However, I'm all for try new ideas as this is what drives civilization and society forward. Without it, we would still be living in caves, wearing bear skins, riding horses and using leeches when ill. :o :o :o
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I like it! :y If they can make them durable and at a sensible price, then this is the sort of innovation that we need to move forward and away from our dependence on fossil fuels. :y
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My son works for Nissan and he tells me the next generation Leaf should have a range of over 150 miles. I think 120 miles guaranteed is the point at which they become a sensible single vehicle and until then they are really a second car unless all you ever do is short trips
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My son works for Nissan and he tells me the next generation Leaf should have a range of over 150 miles. I think 120 miles guaranteed is the point at which they become a sensible single vehicle and until then they are really a second car unless all you ever do is short trips
Once they can tow a 1500kg glider trailer to Scotland I'll have one. :y