Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: terry paget on 30 March 2016, 10:42:34

Title: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: terry paget on 30 March 2016, 10:42:34
For years I have carefully set my tyre pessures using the Bordon gauge on my airline inflator. It got sticky last weekend so i reverted to my old baloon gauge. This suggested all my tyres were seriously underinflated. Worried, I bought a superior PCL Mk.2 tyre inflator from Screwfix, for £65, which comes with a calibration certificate.
Pressure set with old gauge at 32psi were only 24psi with new inflator. I reset at 32psi all round on saloons, 32 front and 36 rear on estates, then checkecd with baloon gauge, which read 1psi higher.
Alarming conclusion is that I have been running on soft tyres for years. I trust the new inflator and I trust the old baloon gauge. This might go some way to explain my tyre wear problems.
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: TheBoy on 30 March 2016, 10:48:33
My (supposedly calibrated) PCL one reads massively under if left in the cold, thus it has to stay in the house, much to Mrs TB's annoyance.
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: TheBoy on 30 March 2016, 10:49:59
At least in my case, the tyres were over inflated - approaching 50 psi - which is marginally better than under inflated.
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: terry paget on 30 March 2016, 11:15:23
My (supposedly calibrated) PCL one reads massively under if left in the cold, thus it has to stay in the house, much to Mrs TB's annoyance.
Very interesting. No mention of temperature on calibration certificate, just says 'in its normal working position'. I know how the Bordon gauge works, I know how the baloon gauge works, I don't know how this PCL gauge works. Does anybody here?
I see I am advised to oil it every month.
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: 05omegav6 on 30 March 2016, 12:22:44
At least in my case, the tyres were over inflated - approaching 50 psi - which is marginally better than under inflated.
Moreso given your driving style ::)
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 30 March 2016, 12:24:38
On the subject of tyres and silly me - I hurriedly fitted a new tyre to the n/s/f of my Omega about 6 months ago. As I checked the tyre pressures yesterday, I noticed in large letters on the sidewall "INSIDE".  :-[ :-[ ::)
Presumably this will cause a problem of water dispersion when it rains ?
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: GastronomicKleptomaniac on 30 March 2016, 12:46:27
Get it changed ASAP. Handling and legal issues.
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: johnnydog on 30 March 2016, 13:06:56
Doesn't say much for the tyre fitting place. Must be one of the first lessons learnt during a tyre fitting apprenticeship.
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 30 March 2016, 13:28:39
I wish I could blame a tyre fitter, but I fitted it myself.  :-[ ;D
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: terry paget on 30 March 2016, 13:47:33
I wish I could blame a tyre fitter, but I fitted it myself.  :-[ ;D
You fitted the tyre on the wheel yourself? Congratulations.
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 30 March 2016, 16:22:22
Yes. Have done for years. I aint paying someone else £15 per tyre to do it for me when I can do it myself in 15 - 20 minutes. ;)
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: TheBoy on 30 March 2016, 17:52:56
How do you balance it, as the guy here normally takes 2 attempts?
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: zirk on 30 March 2016, 18:17:28
Yes. Have done for years. I aint paying someone else £15 per tyre to do it for me when I can do it myself in 15 - 20 minutes. ;)
♬ Cant get quicker than a Mig6 Fitter ♬
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 30 March 2016, 18:25:45
How do you balance it, as the guy here normally takes 2 attempts?

If the wheels are a bit shaky at speed, local garage does it gratis at MOT time. :)
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 30 March 2016, 18:28:02
Yes. Have done for years. I aint paying someone else £15 per tyre to do it for me when I can do it myself in 15 - 20 minutes. ;)
♬ Cant get quicker than a Mig6 Fitter, hes the one to trust - not ♬

You know me so well.  ;) ;D
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: TheBoy on 30 March 2016, 19:25:59
How do you balance it, as the guy here normally takes 2 attempts?

If the wheels are a bit shaky at speed, local garage does it gratis at MOT time. :)
Even if my MOTer would, I only MOT my cars annually, so that's not gonna work for me.
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: STEMO on 30 March 2016, 20:42:52
Unbalanced wheels, bodged brake warning lights.......fickin danger to other road users if you ask me.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: Steve B on 30 March 2016, 21:31:23
Unbalanced wheels, bodged brake warning lights.......fickin danger to other road users if you ask me.  ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: terry paget on 30 March 2016, 23:17:18
Unbalanced wheels, bodged brake warning lights.......fickin danger to other road users if you ask me.  ;D ;D
Who brought bodged brake warning lights into this thread?
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: 05omegav6 on 31 March 2016, 00:05:42
TB, albeit inadvertently ;D
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: TheBoy on 31 March 2016, 10:49:14
bodged brake warning lights
You mean Fixed Brake Warning Lights, surely :P
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: 05omegav6 on 31 March 2016, 13:24:06
bodged brake warning lights
You mean Fixed Brake Warning Lights, surely :P
You can make custard or you can pour if from the tin... which is genuinely custard is purely a matter of opinion...

If the lights is out, but working when required, then I say job jobbed :D
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: terry paget on 31 March 2016, 13:50:49
I take off my hat to MigV6, I have never mastered changing car tyres. I can do it on pedal cycles and motorcycles, if I could not I would not ride them. On cars I change wheels, and the Omega still carries a full sized proper spare allowing me to proceed at full speed, like all cars should do.

I have twice in my life tried to master changing car tyres, and failed on both occasions. Problem was getting the tyre down from the rim into the well. Tyre shops use an airline tool for the purpose, with the wheel clamped on a rig. I bought a Machine Mart tool I can bash with a lump hammer to get it off, but still failed, so gave up.

Do all tyres on wheels really need balancing? The wheels seem pretty symetrical, just a hole for the valve, the valve is obviously an out of balance, and that's it. I believe tyres have balance spots on them to align with the valves. I never used to balance my bicycle wheels, but they were bigger. Come to think of it, I don't think balance was a problem on older cars. Could it be more of a problem on small wheels, as on Minis?
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: Kevin Wood on 31 March 2016, 13:55:29
bodged brake warning lights
You mean Fixed Brake Warning Lights, surely :P
You can make custard or you can pour if from the tin... which is genuinely custard is purely a matter of opinion...

If the lights is out, but working when required, then I say job jobbed :D

Still useless for TheBoy either way because the most likely failure mode - meltage - doesn't put the light on anyway. ::)
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: TheBoy on 31 March 2016, 14:24:06
I take off my hat to MigV6, I have never mastered changing car tyres. I can do it on pedal cycles and motorcycles, if I could not I would not ride them. On cars I change wheels, and the Omega still carries a full sized proper spare allowing me to proceed at full speed, like all cars should do.

I have twice in my life tried to master changing car tyres, and failed on both occasions. Problem was getting the tyre down from the rim into the well. Tyre shops use an airline tool for the purpose, with the wheel clamped on a rig. I bought a Machine Mart tool I can bash with a lump hammer to get it off, but still failed, so gave up.

Do all tyres on wheels really need balancing? The wheels seem pretty symetrical, just a hole for the valve, the valve is obviously an out of balance, and that's it. I believe tyres have balance spots on them to align with the valves. I never used to balance my bicycle wheels, but they were bigger. Come to think of it, I don't think balance was a problem on older cars. Could it be more of a problem on small wheels, as on Minis?
I have found the Omega to be particularly sensitive to balancing, so its probably bigger, wider wheels making it more sensitive?

The fact there really aren't that many perfectly round alloy wheels out there after a few miles on UK roads makes it even worse.  The MFL MV6 Irmscher alloys are particularly bad, guaranteed to go out of round at the sight of a catseye at 1000 paces...
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: TheBoy on 31 March 2016, 14:25:25
bodged brake warning lights
You mean Fixed Brake Warning Lights, surely :P
You can make custard or you can pour if from the tin... which is genuinely custard is purely a matter of opinion...

If the lights is out, but working when required, then I say job jobbed :D
Well, light comes on with handbrake, and if I undo the reservoir cap, and is out at other times so far, so looks like there was a loom fault  :'(
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: TheBoy on 31 March 2016, 14:28:36
bodged brake warning lights
You mean Fixed Brake Warning Lights, surely :P
You can make custard or you can pour if from the tin... which is genuinely custard is purely a matter of opinion...

If the lights is out, but working when required, then I say job jobbed :D

Still useless for TheBoy either way because the most likely failure mode - meltage - doesn't put the light on anyway. ::)
Anyone who has driven for more than a year or 2 will fully recognise the warning signs of over warming the brakes. The more intelligent ones then drive a tad slower.

Guess I'm just the stupid kid from the local comprehensive then ;D


Joking aside, well maintained standard Omega brakes using GM/TC components will take a heck of a lot of abuse, and most road users will have to go some to properly cook them.
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: Nick W on 31 March 2016, 16:06:40
I take off my hat to MigV6, I have never mastered changing car tyres. I can do it on pedal cycles and motorcycles, if I could not I would not ride them. On cars I change wheels, and the Omega still carries a full sized proper spare allowing me to proceed at full speed, like all cars should do.

I have twice in my life tried to master changing car tyres, and failed on both occasions. Problem was getting the tyre down from the rim into the well. Tyre shops use an airline tool for the purpose, with the wheel clamped on a rig. I bought a Machine Mart tool I can bash with a lump hammer to get it off, but still failed, so gave up.

Do all tyres on wheels really need balancing? The wheels seem pretty symetrical, just a hole for the valve, the valve is obviously an out of balance, and that's it. I believe tyres have balance spots on them to align with the valves. I never used to balance my bicycle wheels, but they were bigger. Come to think of it, I don't think balance was a problem on older cars. Could it be more of a problem on small wheels, as on Minis?


It's possible to change car tyres without a machine - watch a truck fitter or 4x4 mechanic, but the larger the diameter and the lower the profile the harder it gets. The key is a heavy hammer, two long levers, plenty of practice and lots of soap. Plus large, wide alloys are easily damaged even if you have the knack. They're easily damaged using an old machine too.


As for balancing, you have it the wrong way around; small wheels need less balancing than big, as the larger diameter dramatically emphasizes any faults. Modern wheels are quite soft, and the huge offset and widths make them prone to buckling. A good quality tyre fitted with care to a round wheel won't need much balancing. Put the same tyre on a buckled wheel and you'll be using more lead than the Romans.
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: terry paget on 31 March 2016, 17:45:30
I take off my hat to MigV6, I have never mastered changing car tyres. I can do it on pedal cycles and motorcycles, if I could not I would not ride them. On cars I change wheels, and the Omega still carries a full sized proper spare allowing me to proceed at full speed, like all cars should do.

I have twice in my life tried to master changing car tyres, and failed on both occasions. Problem was getting the tyre down from the rim into the well. Tyre shops use an airline tool for the purpose, with the wheel clamped on a rig. I bought a Machine Mart tool I can bash with a lump hammer to get it off, but still failed, so gave up.

Do all tyres on wheels really need balancing? The wheels seem pretty symetrical, just a hole for the valve, the valve is obviously an out of balance, and that's it. I believe tyres have balance spots on them to align with the valves. I never used to balance my bicycle wheels, but they were bigger. Come to think of it, I don't think balance was a problem on older cars. Could it be more of a problem on small wheels, as on Minis?


It's possible to change car tyres without a machine - watch a truck fitter or 4x4 mechanic, but the larger the diameter and the lower the profile the harder it gets. The key is a heavy hammer, two long levers, plenty of practice and lots of soap. Plus large, wide alloys are easily damaged even if you have the knack. They're easily damaged using an old machine too.


As for balancing, you have it the wrong way around; small wheels need less balancing than big, as the larger diameter dramatically emphasizes any faults. Modern wheels are quite soft, and the huge offset and widths make them prone to buckling. A good quality tyre fitted with care to a round wheel won't need much balancing. Put the same tyre on a buckled wheel and you'll be using more lead than the Romans.
Thanks Nick I do not recall any weights on wire wheels or old cars, yet none suffered from balance problems. Perhaps their narrowness helped. On my Velocette I had tyre clamps which must have affected the balance, but gave no problem.
So wide wheels are trouble, and alloy wheels are more prone to distortion and damage.
I have never seen a truck mechanic or 4X4 owner changing tyres. I have seen pick up trucks with comprssors and tyre changers in the back, which supports my belief that it's tricky. I shall try again.
Perhaps steel wheels are less prone to distortion, and therefore balance problems.
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: STEMO on 31 March 2016, 18:57:36
Why bother, Terry? Maybe as a personal challenge, but you're not going to save a fortune by the time you've bought all the kit.
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: terry paget on 31 March 2016, 20:35:22
Why bother, Terry? Maybe as a personal challenge, but you're not going to save a fortune by the time you've bought all the kit.
Of course you're right, but I am a miser and I do run 6 Omegas so tyres are quite an expense, especially when I run them underinflated. It came up because I had a puncture on my 41 year old Westwood ride on mower. I got the cover off after a struggle, bought a new tube and put it back on tonight with the tools here depicted. My other mower is a 51 year old Mountfield Stoic with solid tyres.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/eiz2gipu37bpq7n/PunctureKIT21%25.jpg?dl=1)
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: Nick W on 31 March 2016, 20:56:13
The same tools will fit car and van tyres, but it's a real knack. One that really isn't worth trying to develop. If your cars are setup properly then a set of £50 tyres should last 25,000 miles.
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: terry paget on 01 April 2016, 09:13:10
So I've got the right tools already. I struggled removing the cover, but I used a dash of washing up liquid in a bowl of water. Following your advice I put it back with 50/50 water/washing up liquid, and it slipped on a treat. I agree it's a knack, and MigV6 has it. It would certainly be useful to me. I could reduce my stack of spare wheels and tyres to a stack of wheels for a start.
Please tell me, MigV6. How do you get the tyre off the rim into the well?
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 01 April 2016, 11:07:04
Like this Terry, although I use a transit van, as it has plenty of clearance, and also its not mine.  :y ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72KmOlSETnQ
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: aaronjb on 01 April 2016, 11:54:33
Ah that well known expression for "just a little more" ;D ;D
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: Nick W on 01 April 2016, 12:08:40
Ah that well known expression for "just a little more" ;D ;D

AKA a blonde one for really fine adjustments.
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: terry paget on 01 April 2016, 13:05:41
Like this Terry, although I use a transit van, as it has plenty of clearance, and also its not mine.  :y ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72KmOlSETnQ
Thanks. I used the first method in 1962. It worked, but did not seem worth the effort. I tried again in 2002 with the tools depicted but failed completely.
I like the trolley jack idea, looks worth a try.
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: STEMO on 01 April 2016, 15:07:11
Like this Terry, although I use a transit van, as it has plenty of clearance, and also its not mine.  :y ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72KmOlSETnQ
Thanks. I used the first method in 1962. It worked, but did not seem worth the effort. I tried again in 2002 with the tools depicted but failed completely.
I like the trolley jack idea, looks worth a try.
I wouldn't put a trolley jack against the rim of an alloy, as he suggested doing with the steel wheel.
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: terry paget on 09 April 2016, 20:09:49
This trolley jack attempt failed. The tyre tool slid back off the tyre bead. I need a wider curved tool. Any suggestions?
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/riu5ou4x58l52eh/BEADbreaker.jpg?dl=1)
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: Nick W on 09 April 2016, 20:21:46
This trolley jack attempt failed. The tyre tool slid back off the tyre bead. I need a wider curved tool. Any suggestions?



Turning the lever the other way up would help. As would having someone who regularly changes tyres manually show you how to do it. But seriously, is it really worth it? One man I worked with could change 6 truck tyres in 90minutes with no more than a bead breaker and two levers, without even getting dirty. With some instruction I did manage to change one myself, but like plastering it is something that I have no intention of doing again.

You could use a short length of thick-walled 4" angle iron and a club hammer to break the bead.
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: terry paget on 09 April 2016, 21:30:11
I tried the lever other way up, no joy. It might have helped if I had supported the wheel horizontal. I agree, not really worth it, I do it as a challenge, though reading Tunnies's current thread 'So glad I do DIY car work' if there were an easy way to change tyres some members might use it.
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: 05omegav6 on 09 April 2016, 21:41:13
If you must Terry, then don't oops about...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-Motorbike-Car-Van-Tyre-Bead-Breaker-/180499005935?hash=item2a069441ef:m:mPMSPmJ1kiPfNNDO0I-O6LA

Actually you need to spend twice that to get a car tyre suitable one, but you get the point ;)
Title: Re: Tyre pressure measurement - silly me
Post by: terry paget on 09 April 2016, 22:12:34
This looks handy, but it's collection only.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Portable-Manual-Car-Tyre-Changer-Wheel-Mount-Breaker-Hand-Machine-/172161232701?hash=item28159bef3d:g:JnwAAOSwgApXB-Ja