Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: STEMO on 28 September 2016, 15:54:27
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By a mobile speed camera. I was doing about 38 in a 30, so no arguments. That's my second in nine months so no speed awareness course this time.
Think I'll have to buy a less powerful car. An invacarriage in light blue, maybe ;D
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Buy a fancy mountain bike and some lycra. Then you can repulse even more people as you wobble dangerously through red traffic lights :-*
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Buy a fancy mountain bike and some lycra. Then you can repulse even more people as you wobble dangerously through red traffic lights :-*
Meeeooooowww 🐱🐱🐱🐱 ;D
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38mph,you been thrashing that Astra again ::) ::) ;)
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Must have been down a steep hill, with the wind behind him. ;D
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At least bits don't fall off it.....you bastards :'(
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I'm going to post one of those YouTube thingies, with my astra doing 50mph, that will show you lot. Yeah...50mph! :P
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SWMBO has just had one . . . 26 in a 20 FFS! >:( >:( >:(
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Bad luck, Al.
20 mph is unrealistic with today's cars; why not educate people that cars are dangerous and can kill - THEY are the ones who get hurt more?
I'm waiting for the nannies to call for the man with the red flag to be brought back!
Ron.
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SWMBO has just had one . . . 26 in a 20 FFS! >:( >:( >:(
As the Essex Bays say,...... Respect !!, ;)
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By a mobile speed camera. I was doing about 38 in a 30, so no arguments. That's my second in nine months so no speed awareness course this time.
Think I'll have to buy a less powerful car. An invacarriage in light blue, maybe ;D
When I was a lad at school we would refer to these as either a spaz chariot or a cripple carriage.
Probably wouldn't be considered politically correct these days.
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By a mobile speed camera. I was doing about 38 in a 30, so no arguments. That's my second in nine months so no speed awareness course this time.
Think I'll have to buy a less powerful car. An invacarriage in light blue, maybe ;D
When I was a lad at school we would refer to these as either a spaz chariot or a cripple carriage.
Probably wouldn't be considered politically correct these days.
No.....probably not.....
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By a mobile speed camera. I was doing about 38 in a 30, so no arguments. That's my second in nine months so no speed awareness course this time.
Think I'll have to buy a less powerful car. An invacarriage in light blue, maybe ;D
When I was a lad at school we would refer to these as either a spaz chariot or a cripple carriage.
Probably wouldn't be considered politically correct these days.
Yep, Spaz Mobile :-X
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By a mobile speed camera. I was doing about 38 in a 30, so no arguments. That's my second in nine months so no speed awareness course this time.
Think I'll have to buy a less powerful car. An invacarriage in light blue, maybe ;D
When I was a lad at school we would refer to these as either a spaz chariot or a cripple carriage.
Built by AC, which makes an interesting comparison to Cobras!
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By a mobile speed camera. I was doing about 38 in a 30, so no arguments. That's my second in nine months so no speed awareness course this time.
Think I'll have to buy a less powerful car. An invacarriage in light blue, maybe ;D
When I was a lad at school we would refer to these as either a spaz chariot or a cripple carriage.
Built by AC, which makes an interesting comparison to Cobras!
So worth more than a 427 Shelby Cobra then. ;)
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How quick from getting caught to receiving penalty letter?
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Think remploy, use to make bits or sub-assembly, for the spaz carts, think they had a villers engine in them.
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How quick from getting caught to receiving penalty letter?
Noips has to be received in 14 days or less.
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How quick from getting caught to receiving penalty letter?
Noips has to be received in 14 days or less.
That's what it says, but....the last one I got from SY Police said that was no excuse not to pay it and they would still prosecute. There is also guidance from ACPO that 10% +2mph should be allowed before they issue a ticket, i.e. 35 in a 30, but some forces take no notice of that either and a mate of mine got a NIP for doing 33 in Lincolnshire.
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http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/road_traffic_offences_guidance_on_fixed_penalty_notices/
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Same Police Force? I've done two courses over the years, luckily the forces don't appear to talk to each other.
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There's a no repeat threshold... Think it's three years before it can be reoffered :-\
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Same Police Force? I've done two courses over the years, luckily the forces don't appear to talk to each other.
Yep, same force.
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There's a no repeat threshold... Think it's three years before it can be reoffered :-\
But Mark is saying that different forces apparently don't know what the other has done. So, say, S Yorks may not know that W Yorks have caught you and offered you the course.
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At least bits don't fall off it.....you bastards :'(
;D ;D
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There's a no repeat threshold... Think it's three years before it can be reoffered :-\
But Mark is saying that different forces apparently don't know what the other has done. So, say, S Yorks may not know that W Yorks have caught you and offered you the course.
Second time I wrote to them and asked for one, as not offered it straight away.
So worth a go :y
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There's a no repeat threshold... Think it's three years before it can be reoffered :-\
But Mark is saying that different forces apparently don't know what the other has done. So, say, S Yorks may not know that W Yorks have caught you and offered you the course.
Second time I wrote to them and asked for one, as not offered it straight away.
So worth a go :y
Hmmmm....doubt that would work for me, I only did one in April.
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And learnt nothing... ::)
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And learnt nothing... ::)
Thats not completely true,he's obviously learnt where 3rd gear is to get to such a velocity ::) :D
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And learnt nothing... ::)
Thats not completely true,he's obviously learnt where 3rd gear is to get to such a velocity ::) :D
Well, there's that... ;D
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And learnt nothing... ::)
Thats not completely true,he's obviously learnt where 3rd gear is to get to such a velocity ::) :D
It was accidental, he was fumbling for the Werthers
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And learnt nothing... ::)
Tunnie is dead right about you.
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I went on a course in January, 36 in a 30 on a road that USED to be 60 (last time I used it) at 6 am. No excuse. I was only using that road because the dual carriage way to the motorway was closed, and I'm confused myself with the diversion, and ended up miles from the motorway junction. GRR.
and then got done in April, on the way to Cardiff in Pencraig, where the 70 goes to 50 and back to 70, I got done at 64 accelerating towards the NSL sign.
I did learn something on the course. I leave more space in front of me.
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And learnt nothing... ::)
Thats not completely true,he's obviously learnt where 3rd gear is to get to such a velocity ::) :D
It was accidental, he was fumbling for the Werthers
It possible he was fumbling about for his dental plate after swearing too much at all the other motorists.
You don't need teeth for sucking a Werthers Original. :)
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Two more 'events' and he will be investing in some lycra and a pushbike. ::) ::) ::)
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Two more 'events' and he will be investing in some lycra and a pushbike. ::) ::) ::)
Three.
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Two more 'events' and he will be investing in some lycra and a pushbike. ::) ::) ::)
Sorry ,I was thinking of different events which may require rubber pants to be worn ::) ;)
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Two more 'events' and he will be investing in some lycra and a pushbike. ::) ::) ::)
Sorry ,I was thinking of different events which may require rubber pants to be worn ::) ;)
Oh not another soiled mattress ::) :D :D
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No NIP yet. :-\
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15 days, no NIP. :y
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I think you still have to wait a couple more just to be sure. If it is dated and sent within the 14 days it doesn't matter if it arrives in 15 or 18 days.
Keep sweating old man ;D :-*
P.S. I have a couple of old push bikes you can buy off me. Mates rates and all but a bigger discount if you join the Lycra brigade ;D
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I think you still have to wait a couple more just to be sure. If it is dated and sent within the 14 days it doesn't matter if it arrives in 15 or 18 days.
Wrong.
The NIP must be "served" within 14 days. "Served" has a specific legal meaning defined in "The Interpretations Act 1978" http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1978/30
Basically, if a NIP is posted, it must go by First Class post, and such that it should arrive at the recipient within 14 days. First class post is deemed to be delivered on the second working day after postage unless the recipient can prove that it was not. So posting on day 13 or 14 is a get out of jail free card. Even posting on days 11 or 12 might be a get out of jail card if Weekends or Bank Holidays get in the way.
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The last one I received had something about 'not using late delivery as an excuse' or similar, but that was delivered within a week. Anyhow, I'll have to stop being in such a hurry. I actually felt quite sad that my license might be endorsed.
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The last one I received had something about 'not using late delivery as an excuse' or similar, but that was delivered within a week. Anyhow, I'll have to stop being in such a hurry. I actually felt quite sad that my license might be endorsed.
I expect it was quite carefully worded ::)
Late service does not absolve you of the requirement to respond to the S172 request for information. You can (and almost certainly will) get done for not supplying all the requested information within the prescribed time (normally 28 days) unless you have a very good excuse for not doing so. The penalty for that is 6 points + a big fine - much worse than for speeding which is typically 3 pts+£100.
However, if the NIP/S172 is served out of time, then you have a cast iron defence against the primary alleged offence of speeding.
So if a NIP/S172 lands, ALWAYS respond to it. If they then attempt to prosecute you using a late S172/NIP decline any FPN offer and (if it gets that far) opt for court. Stand your ground, present your evidence of a late NIP and they will either drop the case, or they will waste the courts time and you will be found not guilty. However, if you cave in they will be happy to accept your £100+3 to 6 points.
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There must have been cases where it was posted but not received, that would be interesting. :-X
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I can think of a number of times when I got "Flashed" and nothing happened. Particularly once on the M25, I was convinced that there would be a letter in the post, but nope. Got flashed in France in July, nothing yet, probably not worth it :y
However, a mobile camera in a van, my view is that there will usually be a letter >:( but I'm usually wrong so SWMBO tells me
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I think you still have to wait a couple more just to be sure. If it is dated and sent within the 14 days it doesn't matter if it arrives in 15 or 18 days.
Wrong.
The NIP must be "served" within 14 days. "Served" has a specific legal meaning defined in "The Interpretations Act 1978" http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1978/30
Basically, if a NIP is posted, it must go by First Class post, and such that it should arrive at the recipient within 14 days. First class post is deemed to be delivered on the second working day after postage unless the recipient can prove that it was not. So posting on day 13 or 14 is a get out of jail free card. Even posting on days 11 or 12 might be a get out of jail card if Weekends or Bank Holidays get in the way.
You still have to wait for misdelivery/later than normal post. ?T?hey dont have to prove that you received it on time, just that under normal circumstances that you wold have :y
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I think you still have to wait a couple more just to be sure. If it is dated and sent within the 14 days it doesn't matter if it arrives in 15 or 18 days.
Wrong.
The NIP must be "served" within 14 days. "Served" has a specific legal meaning defined in "The Interpretations Act 1978" http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1978/30
Basically, if a NIP is posted, it must go by First Class post, and such that it should arrive at the recipient within 14 days. First class post is deemed to be delivered on the second working day after postage unless the recipient can prove that it was not. So posting on day 13 or 14 is a get out of jail free card. Even posting on days 11 or 12 might be a get out of jail card if Weekends or Bank Holidays get in the way.
You still have to wait for misdelivery/later than normal post. ?T?hey dont have to prove that you received it on time, just that under normal circumstances that you wold have :y
Bollicks. I know my postman very well and I know what the envelope looks like. He would back me up, but no need, cause it ain't coming. :P
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If you want an NIP this badly, I could post one out? ;D
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If you want an NIP this badly, I could post one out? ;D
No thanks, James, just send me a book of parking tickets please. Some of my neighbours could certainly do with them. >:(
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I think you still have to wait a couple more just to be sure. If it is dated and sent within the 14 days it doesn't matter if it arrives in 15 or 18 days.
Wrong.
The NIP must be "served" within 14 days. "Served" has a specific legal meaning defined in "The Interpretations Act 1978" http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1978/30
Basically, if a NIP is posted, it must go by First Class post, and such that it should arrive at the recipient within 14 days. First class post is deemed to be delivered on the second working day after postage unless the recipient can prove that it was not. So posting on day 13 or 14 is a get out of jail free card. Even posting on days 11 or 12 might be a get out of jail card if Weekends or Bank Holidays get in the way.
You still have to wait for misdelivery/later than normal post. ?T?hey dont have to prove that you received it on time, just that under normal circumstances that you wold have :y
I'm aware of the 14 day Law as it's been pointed out several times before but just for info neither of my Nip's arrived within that time frame. I was apparently guilty of both offences, as shown on requested photographs, so I'm not contesting that. ::)
My first Nip arrived on the 31st day after the offence so I duly challenged the late arrival. I was informed that as the paperwork had been processed and sent out on the 11th day after the offence I would still be charged. I tried challenging the Nip for late arrival, admittedly only by responding to the S172 and also writing to a local court clerk for their take on the 'Law', and the response I received was that their view was that the Nip had been posted within a reasonable time frame that would have led the Police/Speed awareness people to believe that it would arrive on time. They said that the postal service was beyond their control. I paid the fine and took the points.
My second Nip arrived on the 26th day after the offence, so armed with more info off here I posted a question asking if anybody on here had challenged the 14 day Nip notification. On advice from here I joined PepiPoo and drafted a letter using a letter template as suggested. The response that I received this time was pretty much the same as before, stating that they could not be accountable for the postal service. Again the date on the letter was within the specified time frame. ::) I was lucky enough to be offered a speed awareness course as the time between offences was over three years.
Both vehicles were registered to me on the log book so tracing me was not an issue. Perhaps I bailed out too early but I didn't relish going to court over something so trivial.
I was told that the Nip process had to be started within 14 days so if it is actually a 'Law' to receive it within 14 days then I have been lied to by the authorities twice now. :-\
I'm not arguing the point, just speaking from my own personal experience.
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http://www.motorlawyers.co.uk/procedure/notice_of_intended_prosecution.php
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I think they should send you down for a very long time. :)
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I think they should send you down for a very long time. :)
Big Winston is licking his lips in anticipation! :o ;D
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I think they should send you down for a very long time. :)
Big Winston is licking his lips in anticipation! :o ;D
Me too :-*
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http://www.motorlawyers.co.uk/procedure/notice_of_intended_prosecution.php
If you are the registered keeper of the vehicle and the ISSUE date on the Notice of Intended Prosecution is more than 14 days after the offence, then you can reject it
Which pretty much confirms what they told me, that they only have to have started proceedings within 14 days. I.e. The Nip must be dated within the 14 day period. :-\
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I think you still have to wait a couple more just to be sure. If it is dated and sent within the 14 days it doesn't matter if it arrives in 15 or 18 days.
Wrong.
The NIP must be "served" within 14 days. "Served" has a specific legal meaning defined in "The Interpretations Act 1978" http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1978/30
Basically, if a NIP is posted, it must go by First Class post, and such that it should arrive at the recipient within 14 days. First class post is deemed to be delivered on the second working day after postage unless the recipient can prove that it was not. So posting on day 13 or 14 is a get out of jail free card. Even posting on days 11 or 12 might be a get out of jail card if Weekends or Bank Holidays get in the way.
You still have to wait for misdelivery/later than normal post. ?T?hey dont have to prove that you received it on time, just that under normal circumstances that you wold have :y
No - you don't. It's called a rebuttal position.
The NIP is presumed delivered on the 2nd working day after it was put into the postal system. However, if you can prove that it was not delivered within time, then you are not guilty of the offence. You must be able to prove it beyond reasonable doubt though - If you can get your postie to attend court and state under oath the date that it was actually delivered then that will be good enough. However, standing up in court and simply saying you didn't get it within time is very unlikely to be enough.
The law is the law. The S172 must be served within 14 days of the offence. Served means delivered.
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Which pretty much confirms what they told me, that they only have to have started proceedings within 14 days. I.e. The Nip must be dated within the 14 day period. :-\
No. Wrong.
The NIP must be served within 14 days. Served (basically) means delivered. 1st class post is presumes served on Day 2 after posting. Therefore a postal NIP can only be vaild if dated within 12 days. And it's working days - so weekends and Bank holidays matter.
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It must be issued within 14 days, and that is all.
To be served within 14 days would mean near enough any lease/company car driver would be immune.
It also ignores the fact that police have, at least, 6 months to prosecute, not 14 days, or 12 using your 2 days for postage logic.
What if someone was on holiday for two weeks, starting the day before the NiP was delivered, would they be immune because they hadn't been 'served'?
Or how about, don't speed, and if you do, and get caught, take your medicine instead of trying to wriggle out of it, and maybe look at lives that have been ruined, or lost, because of excess speed and recklessness?
/rant
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It must be issued within 14 days, and that is all.
No. Absolutely No. How many times does it need explaining!
Section 1 of the ROTA 1988 says http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/53/section/1
1 Requirement of warning etc. of prosecutions for certain offences.
(1)Subject to section 2 of this Act, [F1a person shall not be convicted of an offence to which this section applies unless
(a)he was warned at the time the offence was committed that the question of prosecuting him for some one or other of e offences to which this section applies would be taken into consideration, or
(b) within fourteen days of the commission of the offence a summons (or, in Scotland, a complaint) for the offence was served on him, or
(c) within fourteen days of the commission of the offence a notice of the intended prosecution specifying the nature of the alleged offence and the time and place where it is alleged to have been committed, was—
(i) in the case of an offence under section 28 or 29 of the M1Road Traffic Act 1988 (cycling offences), served on him,
(ii) in the case of any other offence, served on him or on the person, if any, registered as the keeper of the vehicle at the time of the commission of the offence.
Section 1-1-c-ii is the relevant bit for speeding, so the S172/NIP must be served on the Registered Keeper within 14 days. Served has a specific legal meaning defined in section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 the http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1978/30
7 References to service by post.
Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.
So service is deemed to be on normal delivery, which for 1st class post is 2 working days. http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2009/2924.html
With effect from 16 April 1985 the Practice Direction issued on 30 July 1968 is hereby revoked and the following is substituted therefore.
1). Under S7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 service by post is deemed to have been effected, unless the contrary has been proved, at the time when the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.
2). To avoid uncertainty as to the date of service it will be taken (subject to proof to the contrary) that delivery in the ordinary course of post was effected:-
(a) in the case of first class mail, on the second working day after posting;
(b) in the case of second class mail, on the fourth working day after posting.
"Working days" are Monday to Friday, excluding any bank holiday.
3). Affidavits of service shall state whether the document was dispatched by first or second class mail. If this information is omitted it will be assumed that second class mail was used.
4). This direction is subject to the special provisions of RSC Order 10, rule 1(3) relating to the service of originating process.
8th March 1985
J R BICKFORD SMITH Senior Master
Queen's Bench Division
High court decisions are binding on lower courts - the Magistrates cannot choose to interpret the meanings differently.
Hence a NIP/S172 dated, printed and posted on days 13 or 14 cannot possibly be deemed to have been served within the 14 days required by the RTOA
To be served within 14 days would mean near enough any lease/company car driver would be immune.
Only the Recorded keeper must be served the first notice within 14 days. For a lease/company car that would be whoever is on record at DVLA as being the keeper. Once the lease company receive it, they must reply nominating a driver. The Police will then issue a second NIP/S172 to the nominated person. There is NO time limit on this second(or third or fourth) NIP.
It also ignores the fact that police have, at least, 6 months to prosecute, not 14 days, or 12 using your 2 days for postage logic.
Read Section 1 of the RTOA again - "a person shall not be convicted of an offence to which this section applies unless..." A late NIP will prevent a successful prosecution.
What if someone was on holiday for two weeks, starting the day before the NiP was delivered, would they be immune because they hadn't been 'served'?
No. The nip is deemed "served" when it drops through the letter box at the address held by DVLA for the RK. Doesn't matter if you are in, out or shaking it all about.
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What if someone was on holiday for two weeks, starting the day before the NiP was delivered, would they be immune because they hadn't been 'served'?
No. The nip is deemed "served" when it drops through the letter box at the address held by DVLA for the RK. Doesn't matter if you are in, out or shaking it all about.
[/quote]
So the nip is deemed served when it drops through the letterbox.
Example 1 - nip drops trough the letterbox on day 13, while i, the rk, is on holiday. 10 days later I arrive home, and find it, but decide, sod this, I'll say it didn't arrive till day 17, save myself the fine and points. I ask the postie, who is a friend, when did you deliver the nip, to which he replies, no idea mate, all just letters to me! At this point police say, well we issued it in time, to which you argue, yes, but it wasntnserved on me, prove otherwise.
Example 2 - nip drops through letterbox on day 7. Dog eats it while rk is at work, they never see it, claim it was never served, tell police to prove otherwise.
Example 3 - nip drops through letterbox on day 10, rk doesn't receive it as he's been kicked out for a few weeks and the missus doesn't pass it on, there's a cross over between him registering new address with dvla, and nip being sent out, so he argues I wasn't served, he then bounces around addresses for a few months and evades penalty as he can't be served.
You can argue all you like and quote all you like, but courts work on the general premise of what is reasonable, within statuettes and guidelines, and given the manner in which the nip is served, all the police have to do is show that they served the nip in a reasonable manner within the time frame, beyond that it is outbid their control, which echoes whatnothernpostersnhave said, and if you actually took it to a court, what would actually happen.
Finally, your last point counters your own arguments. You state that the nip is deemed served when it drops through the letterbox, regardless of anything else,, which means all the police need to do is prove they issued it within 12 days of the offence and that's sufficient, or would be to a court, which is exactly what I initially said.
It's easy to cherry pick certain sections of acts and price them together to make what seems a legitimate argument, but the real world is a bit different, as are actual courts.
I fear this could go on, so for me, I'm done - I don't fancy banging my head against a brick wall on a Saturday night.
As for you STEMO, I can't help but feel all this was a clever ploy to get some quiet time with big winston now half term is approaching and the prospect of time with the other half looms, you needn't worry, I hear long dog walks, and pegging will offer a similar experience :-* :P
(As an aside, hit a kid at 30 mph, and thenare 4 times more likely to survive than at 40mph. Thats a big difference, and one you'd care about if you had kids, but we all know that 30-40 mph doesn't seem a whole lot quicker. 20 zones around schools are also there for a reason, and are normally ignored. Imagine you get the call to say your 8 year old niece, nephew, grandkid, child had been killed by someone doing 40 in a 20, who then tried to argue technicalities to get off Scott free),
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So the nip is deemed served when it drops through the letterbox.
Example 1 - nip drops trough the letterbox on day 13, while i, the rk, is on holiday. 10 days later I arrive home, and find it, but decide, sod this, I'll say it didn't arrive till day 17, save myself the fine and points. I ask the postie, who is a friend, when did you deliver the nip, to which he replies, no idea mate, all just letters to me! At this point police say, well we issued it in time, to which you argue, yes, but it wasntnserved on me, prove otherwise.
The NIP will be deemed served unless YOU can prove it was late. The police only have to show that you should have received in in time - i.e. they posted it on/before day 12. In the circumstances you describe at best the you'll get done for speeding, at worst you'll go to jail for perjury or perverting the course of justice.
Example 2 - nip drops through letterbox on day 7. Dog eats it while rk is at work, they never see it, claim it was never served, tell police to prove otherwise.
Nope - again the NIP is presumed served. You must prove it wasn't.
Example 3 - nip drops through letterbox on day 10, rk doesn't receive it as he's been kicked out for a few weeks and the missus doesn't pass it on, there's a cross over between him registering new address with dvla, and nip being sent out, so he argues I wasn't served, he then bounces around addresses for a few months and evades penalty as he can't be served.
The NIP is legally served if it lands on the doormat on day 10 at the address held on file at DVLA. You must reply within 28 days. If you don't then you may guilty of an offence under S172 of the RTA. Your (likely very difficult!) defence would lie under Sub Section 7(b) where it says you must reply as soon as reasonably practical. You would have to convince the court that you didn't and couldn't know about the S172. You should also note that the penalty for S172 is usually much higher than for the associated speeding (roughly double the points and double the fine), so deliberately messing about like this to try and avoid a speeding conviction is unwise.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/172
(7) A requirement under subsection (2) may be made by written notice served by post; and where it is so made—
(a) it shall have effect as a requirement to give the information within the period of 28 days beginning with the day on which the notice is served, and
(b) the person on whom the notice is served shall not be guilty of an offence under this section if he shows either that he gave the information as soon as reasonably practicable after the end of that period or that it has not been reasonably practicable for him to give it.
You can argue all you like and quote all you like, but courts work on the general premise of what is reasonable, within statuettes and guidelines, and given the manner in which the nip is served, all the police have to do is show that they served the nip in a reasonable manner within the time frame, beyond that it is outbid their control, which echoes whatnothernpostersnhave said, and if you actually took it to a court, what would actually happen.
Nope. Read the High Court appeal. http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2009/2924.html .This is binding on lower courts. If presented properly, the CPS will drop the case before court because they know they are on a loser.
Finally, your last point counters your own arguments. You state that the nip is deemed served when it drops through the letterbox, regardless of anything else,, which means all the police need to do is prove they issued it within 12 days of the offence and that's sufficient, or would be to a court, which is exactly what I initially said.
It's easy to cherry pick certain sections of acts and price them together to make what seems a legitimate argument, but the real world is a bit different, as are actual courts.
I never said "regardless of anything else". I said it was a rebuttal position. It's deemed served unless you can prove is wasn't. The High Court case shows this to be true.
I fear this could go on, so for me, I'm done - I don't fancy banging my head against a brick wall on a Saturday night.
Good best you stop talking rubbish without any legal backing in case someone believes you. I have given you chapter and verse for all the applicable laws and judgments.
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I love these, everybody thinks they can get away with it or beat the law, by using various, difference, and pub talk, and that includes ME,
I have tried, and failed, came close to perverting course of justice, have tried the failed postman, the well it got lost, even not signing for it. They all failed. The only people/way to win is with money, you will need a Qc who specializes in motoring law, or employ the solicitor known as Mr loophole favoured by footballers and TV types. Us mere citizens can try, but you wont beat the system.
You can trawl the internet, you can use piepoo, but without money and proper council, you ain't gonna win.
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I love these, everybody thinks they can get away with it or beat the law, by using various, difference, and pub talk, and that includes ME,
I have tried, and failed, came close to perverting course of justice, have tried the failed postman, the well it got lost, even not signing for it. They all failed. The only people/way to win is with money, you will need a Qc who specializes in motoring law, or employ the solicitor known as Mr loophole favoured by footballers and TV types. Us mere citizens can try, but you wont beat the system.
You can trawl the internet, you can use piepoo, but without money and proper council, you ain't gonna win.
Pie poo? I don't like the sound of that! ;D