Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Varche on 17 April 2017, 17:30:56
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About time this practice was stopped. It is just greed or poor admin on behalf of the airlines.
Last week we had the farcical United airlines situation. The guy has filed a lawsuit understandably.
Now Easyjet have done the same thing and cocked up telling the "victims" their rights
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39620088
Has anyone on the forum been an overbooked passenger and had to leave a flight?
I haven't over the years thankfully but a few years back was sat right behind a family flying to Minorca. One of them had to leave the plane because of "overbooking". The dad chose to go and fly via Madrid to Minorca on a later flight(s). I can still remember the two young daughters screaming as their Dad voluntarily left to help sort the problem.
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Yes, I've been denied boarding twice, but you can't ban the practice of overbooking without putting prices up a lot.
If you buy a full price ticket (which often costs 10 times what most of us pay), then you can make as many reservations on as many flights as you want. Obviously you can only actually travel once, but it's not uncommon for a business man to not know what time (or even day) his meeting is going to be, so they buy one flexible ticket and make multiple reservations. The airlines know this, and they have sophisticated software models that try to predict who is actually going to turn up. If they've sold (say) 10 fully flexible tickets for a 200 seater flight then they'll gamble that perhaps 6 or 7 of these people won't turn up, and sell 196 lower fare restricted tickets. They know the people with 'cheap' tickets are very likely to turn up, so they are gambling on the full fare payers not turning up. It works 99% of the time, but the other 1% of the time the cheap ticket person is going to get bumped off - The airline won't want to upset a full price ticket payer.
If you stop the airlines overselling, then they are going to end up flying with empty seats when full price payers don't turn up, which will increase the price of cheap tickets. Years ago I was travelling standby, and checked in or a flight from Las Vegas to Pheonix. I asked how full the plane was, and they said it was 180+ overbooked - but I should be fine (was a Delta Airlines 727 IIRC). Sure enough, I got on the flight and it was half empty.
What is unusual is for 201 people to actually manage to get on-board a 200 seat plane. I've seen it happen once (a Ryanair from Bristol to Dublin) and thankfully we had an off duty Ryanair pilot on board who offered to go sit in the cockpit jump seat. If that hadn't happened then they would have had to throw someone off the plane.
The last time I got bumped was last year on a BA 6am flight from Heathrow to Munich. Went to check in at about 04:30 and got denied. Turned out the previous evenings flight had been cancelled, and they'd re-booked everyone onto other flights including mine. I was offered 400Euros compo, and rebooked on the 9am flight. I was pretty pissed off and still won't travel BA unless I have to, but at least the airline followed the rules.
But - dragging a paying customer off the plane to allow (off duty?) crew to travel (presumably space-A)? Now that is unacceptable in my book.
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The fella that was dragged off the United Airlines flight suffered a broken nose and lost teeth! :o
Maybe there's more to this story than we're being told by the media, but I hope he gets a handsome reward from his lawsuit! :-\
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If you stop the airlines overselling, then they are going to end up flying with empty seats when full price payers don't turn up, which will increase the price of cheap tickets.
That initially was my take on the situation however
- they have had the money for all the seats
- they save money by not having to use so much fuel as less actual passengers.
So you could argue that cheap tickets would stay cheap and the airlines are not managing the situation properly.
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I just hate flying anyway. Years ago I use to fly a lot on business, mostly Europe and USA. Now I avoid flying whenever possible, it's not exciting or jetsetting or adventurous, its a pain in the ass.
Takes ages to get to the airport
The destination airport is probably nowhere near where you actually want to get to.
Airports are designed to part you from your money rather than for speed and efficiency
Overbooking, cancellations, lateness all result in an unreliable service
Assholes who refuse to check bags in and insist on loading up the overhead lockers have now made flying even more unpleaseant
Plus how is it that as I've got older (and bigger) the seats have got smaller ? ;D
I was leaving Heathrow on the opening day of T5. It took 2 days for me to get to Milan, with no baggage. The BA staff told so many outright lies they were tripping over their noses. Absolute disaster.
Part of the problem is that flying is actually too cheap. We just seem to expect to be able to fly across the World for a tenner. And then complain about the food !
Although I understand that the fuel efficiency of aircraft has improved, I can not accept that an aluminium tube burning tons of fuel at 35,000 ft is good for the environment (i'm sure that someone will be along to contradict this soon!). Also, why fly across the Atlantic or to Asia just to lie on a beach ?
I have a rough rule, if my destination is within about 1,000 km of Calais, I make extra time and drive over a day or so. I get to actually see things, meet people, and I can buy stuff and load up the car. :y
AND . . . . . . . actually no, I'd better stop ::)
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Assholes who refuse to check bags in and insist on loading up the overhead lockers have now made flying even more unpleaseant
This always gets my goat as well! >:( There's always heaps of people with oversized bags in the cabin, which has meant that I've had to put my small daysack under the seat in front, because there's no room in the overhead lockers! >:(
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If you stop the airlines overselling, then they are going to end up flying with empty seats when full price payers don't turn up, which will increase the price of cheap tickets.
That initially was my take on the situation however
- they have had the money for all the seats
- they save money by not having to use so much fuel as less actual passengers.
So you could argue that cheap tickets would stay cheap and the airlines are not managing the situation properly.
No - they haven't. The person paying full price hasn't travelled on that flight, but are still able to travel on the next flight, or the next flight or the next filght.
In the extreme, if they sold 200 fully flexible seats for a 200 seater plane and they can't overbook, then they can't take any more bookings on any flight until at least one of those people actually fly. The plane would stil have to go to pick up people coming the other way, but outbound it could be empty.
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Assholes who refuse to check bags in and insist on loading up the overhead lockers have now made flying even more unpleaseant
This always gets my goat as well! >:( There's always heaps of people with oversized bags in the cabin, which has meant that I've had to put my small daysack under the seat in front, because there's no room in the overhead lockers! >:(
This is the airlines and the big airports fault. If you charge for hold baggage then people minimise the amount of hold baggage and just take more hand baggage. And if it takes ages to get your bags back at the other end (hello Gatwick!) then you do what you can to avoid checking it in. I regularly take camera equipment as hand baggage - no way am I checking in £5K+ of gear.
The solution would be to allow you to load/drop your own bags at the hold - It's what happens in the US on smaller regional flights.
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Assholes who refuse to check bags in and insist on loading up the overhead lockers have now made flying even more unpleaseant
This always gets my goat as well! >:( There's always heaps of people with oversized bags in the cabin, which has meant that I've had to put my small daysack under the seat in front, because there's no room in the overhead lockers! >:(
This is the airlines and the big airports fault. If you charge for hold baggage then people minimise the amount of hold baggage and just take more hand baggage. And if it takes ages to get your bags back at the other end (hello Gatwick!) then you do what you can to avoid checking it in. I regularly take camera equipment as hand baggage - no way am I checking in £5K+ of gear.
The solution would be to allow you to load/drop your own bags at the hold - It's what happens in the US on smaller regional flights.
Nope. I recently took a BA flight not budget airline, no extra charge for generous hold luggage, very little delay waiting for bags at either end (Vienna & Gatwick), certainly not as much as if a flight was delayed. The people who do this just want to be seen as "regular flyers" and are too impatient/self important for a short wait. On this trip, both ways there were assholes spending huge a amount of time cramming big bags into lockers and even complaining that there was no space for them. I'm surprised that planes don't get top heavy due to full cabins and empty holds ;D In the past the overhead lockers were for coats, small bags, bits and pieces and that's how it should be.
Expensive or fragile kit ? Yes I agree, keep it with you if possible, but I've checked an expensive guitar as hold luggage with no problems, admitedly in a sturdy flight case.
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Nope. I recently took a BA flight not budget airline, no extra charge for generous hold luggage, very little delay waiting for bags at either end (Vienna & Gatwick), certainly not as much as if a flight was delayed. The people who do this just want to be seen as "regular flyers" and are too impatient/self important for a short wait. On this trip, both ways there were assholes spending huge a amount of time cramming big bags into lockers and even complaining that there was no space for them. I'm surprised that planes don't get top heavy due to full cabins and empty holds ;D In the past the overhead lockers were for coats, small bags, bits and pieces and that's how it should be.
Expensive or fragile kit ? Yes I agree, keep it with you if possible, but I've checked an expensive guitar as hold luggage with no problems, admitedly in a sturdy flight case.
BA do charge extra for hold luggage - short haul at least. I've just looked at LGW-VIE and cheapest is £77 each way hand-baggage only, and £93 with one piece 23Kg hold baggage. So £30 extra return. And now no food either, so there is basically no difference between BA and Easyjet for short haul. Except you can get a Bacon butty on Easyjet and can't on BA.
Gatwick - gah. If I'm going on holiday and know I'm going to be checking luggage in I'll go virtually anywhere except Gatwick.
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You also have to bear in mind that hold baggage is weighed and counts towards the maximum take-off weight of the aircraft whereas cabin baggage is not, and there is a standard allowance per passenger used to calculate cabin loading. So, the less hold baggage an airline loads, the more "paying" baggage in the shape of mail, freight, "tankered" fuel, where that's an advantage, etc. they can load.
It's not surprising they make it as tedious and expensive as possible to put baggage in the hold.
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You also have to bear in mind that hold baggage is weighed and counts towards the maximum take-off weight of the aircraft whereas cabin baggage is not, and there is a standard allowance per passenger used to calculate cabin loading. So, the less hold baggage an airline loads, the more "paying" baggage in the shape of mail, freight, "tankered" fuel, where that's an advantage, etc. they can load.
It's not surprising they make it as tedious and expensive as possible to put baggage in the hold.
And since landing fees are often charged based on aircraft weight, it makes sense for people like Ryanair to minimise their declared hold baggage weight. Not that they would ever fib ;D
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I've always wondered as weight = more fuel, thus the charge. Why is my ticket not cheaper than the fat git next to me?
I should get a 10 stone baggage allowance ::)
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I've always wondered as weight = more fuel, thus the charge. Why is my ticket not cheaper than the fat git next to me?
I should get a 10 stone baggage allowance ::)
Well, a component of the fuel burn is weight related, of course, as heavily loaded wings create more drag, but, once you've subtracted the empty weight of the airframe itself, plus the fuel you need to take with you, and the fuel burn that's used overcoming parasitic drag of the airframe which is there regardless of weight, reserves and taxiing requirements, etc. I'd wager that your ticket wouldn't get much cheaper. ;)
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I won't fly on Ryanair.
Ever.
Even if it were the only airline left and the alternative was swimming to somewhere else in order to crawl to my destination using my plums to drag my luggage.
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I won't fly on Ryanair.
Ever.
Even if it were the only airline left and the alternative was swimming to somewhere else in order to crawl to my destination using my plums to drag my luggage.
I think you'll find that costs extra. ;)
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If it means not flying with Ryanair, then I would gladly sell my kidneys, spleen, liver and heart to pay the difference.
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You also have to bear in mind that hold baggage is weighed and counts towards the maximum take-off weight of the aircraft whereas cabin baggage is not, and there is a standard allowance per passenger used to calculate cabin loading. So, the less hold baggage an airline loads, the more "paying" baggage in the shape of mail, freight, "tankered" fuel, where that's an advantage, etc. they can load.
It's not surprising they make it as tedious and expensive as possible to put baggage in the hold.
Y'know, coming back to just one of my points, I don't give a toss about the reason for it. Having loads of people trying to cram bags into already full overhead lockers is a pain in the ass and for me, reinforces my dislike of flying.
My last flight was from Vienna and in the boarding waiting area quite a few people were approached by staff and told that they would need to check their bags in. The ""bags" were large full size suitcases. Oh the squeals of self righteous indignation ! (I just chuckled - self righteously! ::)).
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Quite... Charge an extra £10 per passenger per flight and not have any of the shit that goes with selfish, deluded morons who believe that it is their God given right to have more than one ruck sack/hand bag per person and bullocks to whoever has to sit next to them.
If you're paying to travel at the front, then two bags is fine as there's half the seats, ergo more space per passenger. And you get food.
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Quite... Charge an extra £10 per passenger per flight and not have any of the shit that goes with selfish, deluded morons who believe that it is their God given right to have more than one ruck sack/hand bag per person and bullocks to whoever has to sit next to them.
That horse has long bolted, and that model has been shown not to work anymore - Why else would flag carriers like BA/Lufty et all who used to offer "free" bags and on-board food scrap these and descend to the levels of the Loco's? People want cheap and it's taken too long for idiots like Willie Walsh to wake up and smell the (half plastic) cup of (luke warm) coffee. Meanwhile Stellios and O'Leary allowed millions of people to travel for a fraction of the cost providing they learnt to jump through the hoops. And now the great unwashed have learnt to recognise those hoops they start applying the same rules to the big boys. Booho.
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The fella that was dragged off the United Airlines flight suffered a broken nose and lost teeth! :o
Good. I bet the terms of the ticket did include being bumped to a later flight, but the arrogant little shit put up a fight instead.
Hope he gets SFA.
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I am off this weekend, and would be flying BA Club given a choice, but as they don't fly to my destination I choose Easyjet. Prebooked seat, so all the benefits of speedy queueing, and not an exit row, so I can place my bag at my feet and checked luggage so no gate arguments.
Oh, and if I know the crew, free drinks 8)
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ATM I do about 40-50 flights /yr and the hand baggage thing really pisses me off. I have 1 cabin case and a personal size laptop bag (both purchased for the job), if airlines actually enforced their own rules there would be no issue with cabin space.
Also, I won't fly BA. Total rip-off merchants, no better than sleazyjet. short haul is Lufthansa (for the lounge access I have) and long haul is emirates :).
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Not sure I would fly with Emirates either :-\
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Not sure I would fly with Emirates either :-\
I flew to Bangkok and back recently with Emirates for a decent price and they were very good, especially on the A380's. :y
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Not sure I would fly with Emirates either :-\
I flew to Bangkok and back recently with Emirates for a decent price and they were very good, especially on the A380's. :y
The man has a point. I had more space on emirates a380 business class than either of the 2 first class seats I've flown (lucky upgrades due to overbooking). Food and wine were excellent. Plus changing at DXB means you have a huge lounge to use including showers, beds etc.
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I am off this weekend, and would be flying BA Club given a choice, but as they don't fly to my destination I choose Easyjet. Prebooked seat, so all the benefits of speedy queueing, and not an exit row, so I can place my bag at my feet and checked luggage so no gate arguments.
Oh, and if I know the crew, free drinks 8)
Horses for courses. I used to prefer Easyjet and Ryanair when they offered a free seating policy. Now they charge for seat allocation it's more of a PITA.
I know you're an insider, but for us mere plebs my rules are...
Rows 1-3 are a PITA because the overheads are usually full of crew baggage and/or oxygen cylinders. You often end up with your bags in rows 4+, or at your feet (not row 1). You then have to swim against the tide during disembarkation to retrieve them.
Over-wing exit is usually fine for overhead storage, but no floor storage allowed so if you've got one of these make sure you get on early otherwise your bags could end up anywhere and you've got the swimming against the tide issue. Also, the bacon butties have usually run out by the time the trollies get to you.
People at the front of the plane are usually fussy bu99ers and once the cabin crew have given the flight crew their food/blow job/ whatever it takes ages for the trolley from the front to reach row 6+. People at the rear don't see the back trolley coming, so often it makes it from row 25+ to row 10 before the front trolley gets past row 6. If you want a bacon butty, go for the back of the plane - rows 25-20.
Know your airport. Those that use air bridges will often only let you board/disembark from the front, so if you're down the back it'll take ages to get off. The smaller airports often let you get on/off both front and back, and it's usually quicker to get on/off at the back even if you're as far forward as row 8. Those speedy borders in the front take forever to sit down and get out of the effin way.
Many airports bus you to/from, the plane. Speedy boarding gives you little advantage here, providing you get on the first bus.
The cabin crew will have no change because it's the first flight of the day/middle of the day/last flight of the day (cross out the two options that don't apply to you).
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Not sure I would fly with Emirates either :-\
Yeah - I always worry about seat row zero in middle eastern airlines. :-X
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Not sure I would fly with Emirates either :-\
I flew to Bangkok and back recently with Emirates for a decent price and they were very good, especially on the A380's. :y
I appreciate that on the 380 it's a relative notion, but did you slum it? Have heard some mixed reviews of service in Economy on the Lgw-Dxb/Dxb-Lgw flights... apparently crewing is a disproportionate 65/35 split in favour of the posh seats :-\
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Not sure I would fly with Emirates either :-\
Yeah - I always worry about seat row zero in middle eastern airlines. :-X
Should the opportunity ever arise, I would fly west to Australasia...
And going to Africa or Asia, via Dubai is not a sensible route... if you're going scenic, then do it right; or go direct
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I flew to Bangkok and back recently with Emirates for a decent price and they were very good, especially on the A380's. :y
I appreciate that on the 380 it's a relative notion, but did you slum it? Have heard some mixed reviews of service in Economy on the Lgw-Dxb/Dxb-Lgw flights... apparently crewing is a disproportionate 65/35 split in favour of the posh seats :-\
Cattle class all the way there and all the way back Al! ::)
Should the opportunity ever arise, I would fly west to Australasia.....
Unless you were planning on spending time in places like New York, L.A., Tokyo etc why on earth would you add hours to an already long journey! :-\ ::)
And going to Africa or Asia, via Dubai is not a sensible route... if you're going scenic, then do it right; or go direct
Flying out on the 9th December the Emirates flight was nearly half the price of the cheapest direct flight to Bangkok and to be honest a couple of hours strolling around Dubai airport and drinking an outrageously priced beer wasn't that bad. :y
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The fella that was dragged off the United Airlines flight suffered a broken nose and lost teeth! :o
Maybe there's more to this story than we're being told by the media, but I hope he gets a handsome reward from his lawsuit! :-\
Much more... He's mentally unstable, is reported to have retired, (unconfirmed) reports of him being struck off for drugs offences and, most importantly, made a point of making a scene and demanding security were called. He got himself into an awkward position when he ignored the orders of the Captain. At that point security were called.
Is it right? No, not really. But he put himself into that situation and encouraged the AIRPORT security to use force.
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I did say it was a relative notion... their 380s are configured for around 70-75% capacity of the seats they could have ;)
Splitting the journey is exactly what I would do, probably LA. For South Africa, by the time you leave Dubai you're pretty much at Nairobi and if you've time to spare, Amsterdam/Frankfurt/Jo'burg is still a viable route to CapeTown. By Asia, I mean Singapore/HK/Japan rather than Thailand... but even Thailand/Goa/Maldives/Mauritius can all easily be reached direct ;)
The ticket prices are set by the airlines, thereby creating and controlling demand.
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Here he would have been tasered and dragged down the steps... surprised they resisted the urge to shoot him...
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I think he was a clever boy. He and his family will never need to work again. :)
My son was flying United Airlines the same day this happened. First UA flight from Ft. Lauderdale to Newark was 30 minutes late taking off and 25 minutes late in landing at Newark. Which left 15 minutes to catch his flight to Heathrow.
When the plane arrived at the gate to allow the passengers off, another UA plane had already been sent there so they had to taxi around looking for another gate, which took them to the other side of the airport.
Then had to stand on the tarmac for quite some time to wait for a bus to come and take them back where they should have been.
Of course the flight to Heathrow was long gone by then, but there was another one an hour later, which wasn't fully booked.
They refused to even discuss trying to get him on the flight. He got the impression it would have involved a few people getting their arses into gear and maybe even breaking a sweat, and that apparently, wasn't an option.
He was told he was rebooked on a flight at 8am - 12 hours later and was offered no accommodation, food, drink, or anything else.
He had to hand around the terminal for 12 hours through the night and spend £50 on a hoody because it was freezing and spend £12 on one small glass of wine, and a similar silly amount on some basic food.
He says if the future choice is to fly UA or swim to the U.S. he will buy some new speedos and take his chances. ::)
It seems they are the U.S. equivalent of Ryanair.
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I did say it was a relative notion... their 380s are configured for around 70-75% capacity of the seats they could have ;)
Splitting the journey is exactly what I would do, probably LA. For South Africa, by the time you leave Dubai you're pretty much at Nairobi and if you've time to spare, Amsterdam/Frankfurt/Jo'burg is still a viable route to CapeTown. By Asia, I mean Singapore/HK/Japan rather than Thailand... but even Thailand/Goa/Maldives/Mauritius can all easily be reached direct ;)
The ticket prices are set by the airlines, thereby creating and controlling demand.
I never said that you can't fly to these destinations directly, just that it's cheaper to fly in 2 legs. I paid £430 return to Bangkok and the cheapest direct flight in the beginning of December was about £800. ;) The flight time with Emirates wasn't that much longer either about an hour or two, so it was a no brainer really. :y The total journey was about 16 hours, whereas a direct flight is 11-12 hours. ;)
Out of peak times, scheduled direct flights to Bangkok, Singapore, Kuala Lumper and Hong Kong are easily found between £400 -600. Singapore is usually the most expensive major destination to fly to in SE Asia, but then everything about Singapore is expensive! ;D
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You're not wrong there... :D
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I think he was a clever boy. He and his family will never need to work again. :)
I wouldn't be so sure. He's in the wrong to some extent also ;)
Besides which, it isn't UA who assaulted him, it was Airport Security who used force to remove him because he disobeyed a request from the captain, therefore posing a threat to the aircraft. Was that force reasonable? From the video footage I have seen he actually smashes is face on an armrest after flailing about at the security personnel... It's a tricky one.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if UA offered some sort of "without prejudice" offer but going to court could easily backfire for him, especially with his history that has already been uncovered along side clear footage of him refusing polite requests and flailing about when security removed him by force (at his request!) ::)
The whole situation was handled badly but people have to remember that the Captain has overall say and if he wants you off of his aircraft (for any reason) you have to comply and then deal with it after the fact. As DG said, here he would likely have been hit with a Tazer and it's a miracle that our trigger happy friends from across the pond didn't just shoot him!
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All true, but the fact that the bad publicity wiped many millions off the value of UA shares the next day,and almost cost the CEO his job, means that they will in all likelihood pay him millions to go away and stay quiet. :y
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The airlines overbook to maximise revenue and profits on the basis that on average a few people won't turn up, when they all do they have a problem. Likewise, I suspect it is generally cheaper to kick passengers off to get staff home and off allowances.
Firstly they asked for volunteers, which in a dictionary definition means a 'free choice without being coerced or pressured'. Secondly, everything has a price, especially in the US. I've been in a queue twice when a flight was overbooked. The first time when they asked for volunteers and got no takers, they started offering and bidding up cash incentives until they got their required volunteers. The second time I was upgraded from cattle to business class. :y There are sensible ways to handle such situations, unfortunately UA aren't good enough to use them. I think this by necessity will now change. Ryanair have found the limit to treating people like cattle, with many people voting with their money and feet to use alternatives, even if it costs a bit more.
The doctor was an ass but it takes all types and I would expect staff to have been trained to handle such situations. US police and security seem to be much less resistant from using maximum force to solve a problem.
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The airlines overbook to maximise revenue and profits on the basis that on average a few people won't turn up
Like the mongrels who genuinely believe a plane wont leave without them, so don't need to get up in time. Strangely enough, this seems to happen more at Luton, unless its because the customer service desks are so close to the checkin desks you notice it more.
Probably one for Dr G to confirm...
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I count my stupid sister in that group, BTW.
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It always amazes me that Singapore is mega expensive yet the Duty free is the cheapest.
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So I was always amazed at how United overbook, my Uncle used to work for United and I had some dirt cheap perks. Like £100 return to NYC... Business Class!
I used to see his internal booking tool, as I only got a seat if one was spare. (90%) of the time I got on. It would display the capacity, e.g. 90 business and 300 economy seats.
Quite often there would be 120/130 booked for business and nearly 400 often for cattle class, due to the amount that don't turn up :o :o :o
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The mistake the United made is allowing more people on the plane than they were prepared to carry.
Bumping someone off the flight, preferably by offering incentives when in the terminal, better still, before they've checked-in is one thing. Singling out people to be ejected from the aircraft once it's boarded and they are getting comfortable in their seats is quite another. Whilst the guy undoubtedly over-reacted and, I suspect, there's more to it than has been reported, I'd be pretty livid if that happened to me, and I would disembark under protest only if ordered to by the commander of the aircraft.
Quite apart from anything else, whilst having to ask for volunteers to be bumped from overbooked flights by dangling carrots in the departure lounge looks pretty shabby for an airline, deplaning them to make way for staff is surely P.R. suicide.
Flying is now an extremely unpleasant experience unless you can leave other people (and the engines) behind. I count myself as being fortunate that I can normally do that, even if I can't travel very far. ;)
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It always amazes me that Singapore is mega expensive yet the Duty free is the cheapest.
Taxation 101 ;)
A decent bottle of Vodka probably only costs $5 a bottle when you buy it buy the pallet. Profit, Import duty and VAT bump it up to around $25... remove the Duty and VAT and sell it for $18...
Shop makes a tidy profit, even allowing for ridiculous ground rents, punter is happy because they have 'saved' $7 and the government don't care because you effectively left the country when you went tnrough security to buy your 'cheap' vodka... guaranteed you've been paying $25+ a bottle for your stay
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The airlines overbook to maximise revenue and profits on the basis that on average a few people won't turn up
Like the mongrels who genuinely believe a plane wont leave without them, so don't need to get up in time. Strangely enough, this seems to happen more at Luton, unless its because the customer service desks are so close to the checkin desks you notice it more.
Probably one for Dr G to confirm...
Typically Easyjet Checkin closes an hour before the flight, and the gate at -30. The aircraft may still be over the channel at this point.
Typically there are two details sheeple over look...
1. If you check in online, hand luggage only and don't arrive at the airport until -65 you will miss your flight.
2. Gate Closed time is just that. This doesn't mean that you have 65 minutes to get to the gate, you have 35 minutes. It will take 25 minutes to get through security and a further 15 minutes to walk to the gate. Again you will miss your flight.
Stop for coffee/beer/shopping/toilet and you'll miss your flight. Of course, if you arrive in plenty of time, ie at -150/180 then you have enough time for a bite to eat, buy some snacks for the flight, find and get to the gate etc etc.
Arrive at the gate at -25 flustered, out of breath and carrying only the bags you arrived with, ie no shopping, and you will probably get on, but this depends on how the 165 passengers who arrived on time treated the gate staff and if you have a legitimate reason and had phoned ahead... ie accident/motorway closure train breakdown etc...
I recall picking up a well to do retired couple on behalf of another driver... I was ten minutes ahead of the booking time, we left about ten minutes after the booking time and they insisted on stopping for a paper, it was a Sunday. Eventually got going properly 20 minutes after their booked time. It transpired in the coversation that the time they had booked the cab for was -75. I queried this and was told it was fine as the aiport was only 15 minutes away and they had already checked in... By this point it was -50 and we were still 15 minutes away. I duly left them at the drop off with their luggage fully aware that they had missed their flight. The other driver received a call about an hour later to collect them as they couldn't get another flight for three days, so they decided to head back home instead... rather idiots, the pair of them.
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1. If you check in online, hand luggage only and don't arrive at the airport until -65 you will miss your flight.
2. Gate Closed time is just that. This doesn't mean that you have 65 minutes to get to the gate, you have 35 minutes. It will take 25 minutes to get through security and a further 15 minutes to walk to the gate. Again you will miss your flight.
All reasons to avoid Gatwick.
At Bristol, you enter the long stay car park at -40, cross the road, up the escalators, through the boarding pass scanners at -30.01, and that's it. No 'gates' where they pre-load you and then lock out late comers, even if your plane is still on the ground in Alicante and 2 hours away from actual arrival never mind departure.
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1. If you check in online, hand luggage only and don't arrive at the airport until -65 you will miss your flight.
2. Gate Closed time is just that. This doesn't mean that you have 65 minutes to get to the gate, you have 35 minutes. It will take 25 minutes to get through security and a further 15 minutes to walk to the gate. Again you will miss your flight.
All reasons to avoid Gatwick.
At Bristol, you enter the long stay car park at -40, cross the road, up the escalators, through the boarding pass scanners at -30.01, and that's it. No 'gates' where they pre-load you and then lock out late comers, even if your plane is still on the ground in Alicante and 2 hours away from actual arrival never mind departure.
That's a bit like avoiding France because they eat cheese...
Bristol airport has less gates than Pier 6 at Gatwick. Given that it handles a sixth of the passengers of Gatwick it should only take 10 minutes to get through...
Gatwick terminals haven't physically gotten any bigger in the last decade. The issue isn't with the infrastructure, but rather people, especially when it comes to...
Not allowing enough time.
Not understanding, or appreciating, the processes.
Inappropriate luggage, and subsequent delays in security because they don't think that simple instructions apply to them.
I would wager that your issue isn't with the airport itself, but rather the sheer volume of people passing through it ;)
Whilst Gatwick isn't perfect, most of peoples issues are out of the airports control... how you and your bags are screened are set out by DfT and some airlines apparent inability to schedule an operation with more than a fag paper for turnarounds to name but two.
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But - people don't want to go to the airport. For short haul, they just want to get on/off the plane and out of there as quickly as possible. The airports ARE responsible for engineering the route-march around all the airside shops in the departure hall. LHR terminal 5 is a shocker!
IME the best thing that can be said about Gatwick is that it's not as bad as Stansted. Now there is a case study in what not to do. If you arrive back there at 10pm on a Sunday...
1) You get remote parked so have to get a bus to the terminal.
2) Immigration is rammed - can easily take 45+ minutes to get through
3) Non existant busses to long stay - you can wait 30 minutes for one.
All in can be 1.5 hours from undercarrage smashing into the tarmac to escaping car park. Then 2hrs 40 drive back to civilisation.
FFS - why a monorail between teminal piers and immigration, but busses from the car park to the terminal? Either put the carpark within easy walking distance of the terminal, or put the monorail from the terminal to the car park (like they've done in San Fransisco).
At Bristol we've done the crash landing to walking in the house door in 1h15. Ok many fewer flights, but if there is an option that works it's a much better choice for us.
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I am off at the weekend and shall time myself through and report back ;)
I will be there in plenty of time though, as it's the only time I can get a discount on a pint :D
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I find BHX to be a great balance between size and choice of destination. I only really use other airports (LHR usually) for travel to the US on a direct flight rather than a 2 hopper, or for some more unusual destinations.
For BHX:
Carpark barrier to parking the car 4-6min depending on time of day/day of week.
Walk from Carpark 1 to terminal 4min (including waiting for the lift).
Terminal entry to the far side of security - max 12mins with priority ticket.
For the domestic and intra europe stuff they don't even announce the gates until 25mins pre departure, rather they stream you into one of two departure halls.
I can arrive at the airport 60-65mins prior to departure (having checked in online) and still pick up a cup of acceptable coffee and a newspaper before I get on board :y. I tend not to do this only because the M6 and M42 make the timing risky. In 5yrs and 150 odd flights I have only missed two, and both were due to me missing a connection due to a late incoming flight (hence my choice to us LHR).
As DG rightly points out, the hardest thing is avoiding people who a) have no idea where they are going and b) believe that the limits on what you can and cannot take on board do not apply to them.
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It will take 25 minutes to get through security
Clearly talking about Gatwick there. Luton and Birmingham on all my last few flights bar the last from Luton have been 60mins plus.
In fact, my last flight from Birmingham, we arrived 2hr30 before flight, so well ahead of the 2hrs the airline stated, and only got on the flight because they held the gate due to number of passengers stuck in the system. That one, first flight for that airline of the day, was about 75mins to check in and about 60mins through security. Even then, plane left quite empty (not sure how booked it was though).
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It will take 25 minutes to get through security
Clearly talking about Gatwick there. Luton and Birmingham on all my last few flights bar the last from Luton have been 60mins plus.
In fact, my last flight from Birmingham, we arrived 2hr30 before flight, so well ahead of the 2hrs the airline stated, and only got on the flight because they held the gate due to number of passengers stuck in the system. That one, first flight for that airline of the day, was about 75mins to check in and about 60mins through security. Even then, plane left quite empty (not sure how booked it was though).
That's the crux of it... the time stated is an absolute minimum, not a target... it is this none too subtle difference that people struggle with... then having to put any device larger than a phone in a separate tray and not realising that yogurt and fruit juice are actually liquids ::)
And that's before they fail to read the signs/screens for the gates ::)
My flight on Saturday is mid afternoon. I will be at the carpark by 11, and have every intention of being through security by noon. This will give me at least two and a half hours for lunch and dutyfree etc. I could park at the office, but space is limited and we get to park for free in the long stay, which is a five minute bus ride rather than outside the door ::)
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With the UK poor overcrowded transport and road systems I've always been very generous on the journey time allowed to the airport, which has mean't after mega problems on more than one occasion, I've still made it to the airport and caught my flight. Getting to the airport very early does allow you then to relax a bit and get through all the boarding obstacles as early as possible. :y
The only near misses I've had on missing flights have on both occasions been on the return journey and beyond my control. :(
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Assuming we're internet checked in and hand baggage only we plan to be at the boarding pass scanning point no later than 45mins before departure. Once the boarding pass is scanned it doesn't really matter how long or fussy the rest of (the farce that is) security takes.
Only ever missed one flight - a 9pm Sunday night Ryanair home from Rome to STN. Was dark and pi55ing down with rain, and my navigatior fell asleep so I missed the turning onto the GRA (the Rome M25) and ended up somewhere near the Vatican. Took ages to get out. Arrived at CIA well after the 1h check-in cutoff and sure enough they wouldn't let us check in (this was pre-internet checkin). We already knew the inbound was 2hrs late (hadn't even left STN yet) so we weren't best pleased but "rulez is rulez". They booked us on the 10pm - which cost a fair bit extra but what can you do if you want to get home that night?
Went through to the Portacabin departure hall and then mingled with all the other people we knew that had made the 9pm (there had been a big airshow at Pratica di Mare so we knew half those on the plane) - and they ripped into us for being raped by FR. Had the last laugh though. Our plane turned up more or less on time (came in from Bergamo IIRC) and as we were queuing to board they announced that the 9am had been cancelled - leaving everyone else stuck in Rome for the night coz there weren't any seats left on the 10pm. ;D
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All of the above is why I avoid flying if at all possible. Ive always hated airports, but they have got so much more inhospitable post 9/11 that they are unbearable. The need to spend hours there before flying just to avoid not being able to board the plane is my idea of purgatory.
I had to spend an hour at LHR terminal 5 recently, and couldn't wait to get out. I would rather visit the dentist. ;D
As airports go, Stansted used to be a nice little airport, less than a half hours drive from me. Now, I loathe the place with a deep passion.
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When Spudulike pull out of the UK post Brexit, Stansted may well return to being a nice little airport... unlikely though as the local Councils won't allow the Mancs to expand it, despite what BAA told them when they bought it ::) , as a result they have no interest in the place... And it shows.
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Don't want it to expand. Want it to be what it was 20 years ago. ;) ;D
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Lol, originally conceived as a two runway, two terminal airport, but both Harlow and Chelmsford said no... Regional airport with significant freight hub is it's lot. ;)
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Dr G, I have a flight out of Gatwick in a few weeks. Due to stupid o'clock, can't be arsed with buses/xfers, nor will I allow anyone else to park my car.
Is Short Stay my only option? I think its South Term (Monarch).
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Two options, text me the dates and leave your car here (provided of course the timings/shifts allow ), or park in the South Terminal long stay.
http://www.gatwickparking.com/our-car-parks/parking-options/gatwick-long-stay-parking/
That's the official car park, not a dodgy fly by night set up :y
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Long stay means bus? Not doing buses, even 5 minutes ones, for undisclosed reasons.
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Long stay means bus? Not doing buses, even 5 minutes ones, for undisclosed reasons.
Yup. And you'll always be in zone Z - and the drop off bus starts at A.
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The short stay looks to be £50 more than long stay. IMHO, that's £50 well spent not to have to use those bloody transfer buses.
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Lol, originally conceived as a two runway, two terminal airport, but both Harlow and Chelmsford said no... Regional airport with significant freight hub is it's lot. ;)
Stemo can remember being based there in the 1950's when it had 3 runways.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Stansted_Mountfitchet
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ST is walkable... there's a pavement ;)
Or tother option ;)
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ST is walkable... there's a pavement ;)
Or tother option ;)
Can't have my old mum dragging cases too far, which limits the definition of walkable.
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Could always ferry you twixt the two...
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Gatwick North...
In car park at 1140,
2 minute wait for bus,
5 minutes on bus,
7 minutes to check in including wait for lift,
10 minute queue to check in,
7 minutes through security...
So a smidge over 30 mins... Not bad for a Saturday lunch time ;)
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Spot of shopping, lunch and a couple of pints and a relaxing pause before the fun at the gate...
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Pub... £3.70 a pint.
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y486/05omegav6/Mobile%20Uploads/DSC_0004_zpssnnutjd1.jpg)
Walk 50ft in a straight line...
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y486/05omegav6/Mobile%20Uploads/DSC_0005_zpsgmquov7k.jpg)
Get to gate, show picture of id, and number 3 to board...
Working here has its perks... :D