Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Lizzie Zoom on 02 September 2019, 14:32:25
-
I have noted the comments about the police and my faith in them in the thread by Dave who had his Omega rammed, so now, after saying what I did in that thread, I now state I know what the actual situation is, and why some of you think "the police are useless".
It is not the individual police officer that is useless, but the justice system that is "broken", as described by one blunt Chief Constable. The Police Service has been stretched to beyond breaking point by government cuts that you, me and everyone else has allowed the politicians to do. Cutting 20,000 from their number after 2010 was always going to have this effect, and the recent decision to reverse that is a step in the right direction, but in reality, with society now being more violent and crime ridden, with diminished respect of the police and physical attacks on them causing higher number of absences from work, we, society, require far more officers. It will be at least two years before those now in training can become fully effective officers upholding the law, protecting the public, and gaining experience with maturity.
The average officer I meet is "doing the job" to the best of their ability, but their morale and confidence has been badly knocked and they are so often frustrated that their lack of physical numbers and time inhibit them from fully achieving what they are not only paid to do, but excelling to the level their professional pride is screaming out for.
The CPS and the rest of the judiciary does not help as the frequently few officers tackle serious crime, and after reams of form filling, interviewing witnesses and suspects, with the taking of multiple statements, leads to a decision of the CPS wishing to take the case no further, or downgrading the possible charges to allow for a more certain positive court outcome, or deciding there is "insufficient evidence for charging". That is a decision based on the risky nature, from the point of view of the CPS, of taking a matter to court and incurring costs - yes that is in itself a major factor.
One case I was advising the police on involved highlighted this "sensitivity" to risk. I cannot give full details of course, but in essence it was:
An alleged mass attack on a house and 4 people, with two children, by a group of women, who allegedly (to all): physically assaulted two men, including sexual assault, one with learning difficulties; caused criminal damage to property; threatened a 6 year old child with physical harm, including a threat to "kill"; general committing of "hate crime" over one persons sexual orientation (which was a false assumption); verbal threats to "fire bomb" the house, and general criminal disorder with breaches of the peace, all following previously alleged on-going acts of harassment and incitements to cause acts of violence, which, allegedly continued after the main incident. The main attack was witnessed by a large number of people, including independent observers.
The outcome after months of police work, and much personal effort by one PC, and his DI, with me constantly communicating and advising between all parties, was a decision by the CPS to not press charges as at court there could well be a fatal element to legal proceedings as one adult witness, who was one physically assaulted, including a sexual element, and has learning difficulties, was hesitating over his original identification of a suspect, although positive identification had been confirmed by other witnesses. The risk of him faltering in the witness box was considered too great. Another major flaw was that the police had taken too long to bring the case to the stage of pressing charges!
The system had also destroyed this case from the start, as when this incident was transpiring numerous 999 calls were made, but due to a mistake in the grading of the call and a lack of police resource at that time, a Sunday afternoon, it was not until 2 hours plus that officers arrived on the scene, by which time the alleged committing of offences was over. The police therefore could not identify the suspects, and relied on the victims statements. The officers did carryout door to door enquiries, entering a particularly key property to the affair, but any suspects had disappeared.
For me this case highlighted so clearly how the police are so handicapped from being able to enforce the law and bring about justice, due to the politicians. The PC's involved, and the DI, although very professional in their reactions after this case had been dropped, even though with the latter's support I was able to advise the main victim to lodge an appeal of the decision with the CPS, they were not happy. In fact one said he was "gutted" and angry. That is what is letting our police down, and causing them to question why they carry on. It must change, and change as quickly as humanly possible.
Much higher, fully enforced, sentences for anyone who assaults, let alone worse, any emergency worker, must be a matter of urgency. As I mentioned before, the benefit of higher numbers of police officers will take at least two years. :(
-
I got bored after the "I have noted..." bit.
-
I have noted the comments about the police and my faith in them in the thread by Dave who had his Omega rammed, so now, after saying what I did in that thread, I now state I know what the actual situation is, and why some of you think "the police are useless".
It is not the individual police officer that is useless, but the justice system that is "broken", as described by one blunt Chief Constable. The Police Service has been stretched to beyond breaking point by government cuts that you, me and everyone else has allowed the politicians to do. Cutting 20,000 from their number after 2010 was always going to have this effect, and the recent decision to reverse that is a step in the right direction, but in reality, with society now being more violent and crime ridden, with diminished respect of the police and physical attacks on them causing higher number of absences from work, we, society, require far more officers. It will be at least two years before those now in training can become fully effective officers upholding the law, protecting the public, and gaining experience with maturity.
The average officer I meet is "doing the job" to the best of their ability, but their morale and confidence has been badly knocked and they are so often frustrated that their lack of physical numbers and time inhibit them from fully achieving what they are not only paid to do, but excelling to the level their professional pride is screaming out for.
The CPS and the rest of the judiciary does not help as the frequently few officers tackle serious crime, and after reams of form filling, interviewing witnesses and suspects, with the taking of multiple statements, leads to a decision of the CPS wishing to take the case no further, or downgrading the possible charges to allow for a more certain positive court outcome, or deciding there is "insufficient evidence for charging". That is a decision based on the risky nature, from the point of view of the CPS, of taking a matter to court and incurring costs - yes that is in itself a major factor.
One case I was advising the police on involved highlighted this "sensitivity" to risk. I cannot give full details of course, but in essence it was:
An alleged mass attack on a house and 4 people, with two children, by a group of women, who allegedly (to all): physically assaulted two men, including sexual assault, one with learning difficulties; caused criminal damage to property; threatened a 6 year old child with physical harm, including a threat to "kill"; general committing of "hate crime" over one persons sexual orientation (which was a false assumption); verbal threats to "fire bomb" the house, and general criminal disorder with breaches of the peace, all following previously alleged on-going acts of harassment and incitements to cause acts of violence, which, allegedly continued after the main incident. The main attack was witnessed by a large number of people, including independent observers.
The outcome after months of police work, and much personal effort by one PC, and his DI, with me constantly communicating and advising between all parties, was a decision by the CPS to not press charges as at court there could well be a fatal element to legal proceedings as one adult witness, who was one physically assaulted, including a sexual element, and has learning difficulties, was hesitating over his original identification of a suspect, although positive identification had been confirmed by other witnesses. The risk of him faltering in the witness box was considered too great. Another major flaw was that the police had taken too long to bring the case to the stage of pressing charges!
The system had also destroyed this case from the start, as when this incident was transpiring numerous 999 calls were made, but due to a mistake in the grading of the call and a lack of police resource at that time, a Sunday afternoon, it was not until 2 hours plus that officers arrived on the scene, by which time the alleged committing of offences was over. The police therefore could not identify the suspects, and relied on the victims statements. The officers did carryout door to door enquiries, entering a particularly key property to the affair, but any suspects had disappeared.
For me this case highlighted so clearly how the police are so handicapped from being able to enforce the law and bring about justice, due to the politicians. The PC's involved, and the DI, although very professional in their reactions after this case had been dropped, even though with the latter's support I was able to advise the main victim to lodge an appeal of the decision with the CPS, they were not happy. In fact one said he was "gutted" and angry. That is what is letting our police down, and causing them to question why they carry on. It must change, and change as quickly as humanly possible.
Much higher, fully enforced, sentences for anyone who assaults, let alone worse, any emergency worker, must be a matter of urgency. As I mentioned before, the benefit of higher numbers of police officers will take at least two years. :(
I thought you were a shopkeeper......
-
I have noted the comments about the police and my faith in them in the thread by Dave who had his Omega rammed, so now, after saying what I did in that thread, I now state I know what the actual situation is, and why some of you think "the police are useless".
It is not the individual police officer that is useless, but the justice system that is "broken", as described by one blunt Chief Constable. The Police Service has been stretched to beyond breaking point by government cuts that you, me and everyone else has allowed the politicians to do. Cutting 20,000 from their number after 2010 was always going to have this effect, and the recent decision to reverse that is a step in the right direction, but in reality, with society now being more violent and crime ridden, with diminished respect of the police and physical attacks on them causing higher number of absences from work, we, society, require far more officers. It will be at least two years before those now in training can become fully effective officers upholding the law, protecting the public, and gaining experience with maturity.
The average officer I meet is "doing the job" to the best of their ability, but their morale and confidence has been badly knocked and they are so often frustrated that their lack of physical numbers and time inhibit them from fully achieving what they are not only paid to do, but excelling to the level their professional pride is screaming out for.
The CPS and the rest of the judiciary does not help as the frequently few officers tackle serious crime, and after reams of form filling, interviewing witnesses and suspects, with the taking of multiple statements, leads to a decision of the CPS wishing to take the case no further, or downgrading the possible charges to allow for a more certain positive court outcome, or deciding there is "insufficient evidence for charging". That is a decision based on the risky nature, from the point of view of the CPS, of taking a matter to court and incurring costs - yes that is in itself a major factor.
One case I was advising the police on involved highlighted this "sensitivity" to risk. I cannot give full details of course, but in essence it was:
An alleged mass attack on a house and 4 people, with two children, by a group of women, who allegedly (to all): physically assaulted two men, including sexual assault, one with learning difficulties; caused criminal damage to property; threatened a 6 year old child with physical harm, including a threat to "kill"; general committing of "hate crime" over one persons sexual orientation (which was a false assumption); verbal threats to "fire bomb" the house, and general criminal disorder with breaches of the peace, all following previously alleged on-going acts of harassment and incitements to cause acts of violence, which, allegedly continued after the main incident. The main attack was witnessed by a large number of people, including independent observers.
The outcome after months of police work, and much personal effort by one PC, and his DI, with me constantly communicating and advising between all parties, was a decision by the CPS to not press charges as at court there could well be a fatal element to legal proceedings as one adult witness, who was one physically assaulted, including a sexual element, and has learning difficulties, was hesitating over his original identification of a suspect, although positive identification had been confirmed by other witnesses. The risk of him faltering in the witness box was considered too great. Another major flaw was that the police had taken too long to bring the case to the stage of pressing charges!
The system had also destroyed this case from the start, as when this incident was transpiring numerous 999 calls were made, but due to a mistake in the grading of the call and a lack of police resource at that time, a Sunday afternoon, it was not until 2 hours plus that officers arrived on the scene, by which time the alleged committing of offences was over. The police therefore could not identify the suspects, and relied on the victims statements. The officers did carryout door to door enquiries, entering a particularly key property to the affair, but any suspects had disappeared.
For me this case highlighted so clearly how the police are so handicapped from being able to enforce the law and bring about justice, due to the politicians. The PC's involved, and the DI, although very professional in their reactions after this case had been dropped, even though with the latter's support I was able to advise the main victim to lodge an appeal of the decision with the CPS, they were not happy. In fact one said he was "gutted" and angry. That is what is letting our police down, and causing them to question why they carry on. It must change, and change as quickly as humanly possible.
Much higher, fully enforced, sentences for anyone who assaults, let alone worse, any emergency worker, must be a matter of urgency. As I mentioned before, the benefit of higher numbers of police officers will take at least two years. :(
I thought you were a shopkeeper......
No, never purely a "shopkeeper", as I had many functions, and wore many hats, during my professional career including investigating crime and bringing about many prosecutions, working with the police and retired senior police officers within our ranks, with a number of people ending up with lengthy prison sentences. That is in the past, and now I just "advise" in a special capacity as a civilian. :D :D ;)
-
I got bored after the "I have noted..." bit.
Fair enough! ;D ;)
-
So rhere are two key problems.
1. Politicians and people spent and borrowed too much and had to cut back on spend . Police was an easy target.
2. The CPS doesnt have the resources to tackle none water tight cases
Maybe society has become too liberal and has created a police/justice system that reflects that. A bit like the TV programmes that show outrageous and totally unacceptable behaviour ( like taking a car and having a ten mile high speed chase ) and being rewarded by just a reprimand.
-
I have noted the comments about the police and my faith in them in the thread by Dave who had his Omega rammed, so now, after saying what I did in that thread, I now state I know what the actual situation is, and why some of you think "the police are useless".
Why I think the police are useless when it comes to RTA-type matters is based firmly in my own direct experience. As a student in my early 20's my car was hit and run whilst parked in a car park, directly in front of a CCTV camera - I had parked it there, in my naivety for the protection I thought it would offer me.
I reported the incident to Thames Valley plod, including: location, time (2hr window), car park operator, camera location relative to my car, car details etc etc. I received a lovely letter back from them not more than 48hrs later stating that I needed to contact my insurance company and no investigative action would be taken as there was little chance of identifying the other party. Not that they had looked and couldn't but that they weren't going to bother.
However, the same police force were more than generous enough to pull me over on my way home (during daylight I hasten to add) and issue me with a fine for the broken headlight, the cause of which they couldn't be ar$ed to investigate. ::)
So, in my direct experience, the police are only interested in Road Traffic if it involves on-the-spot revenue generation. And before you offer up any guff about overstretched resources; this was in the early 2000's when Blair and Brown were busy swelling all areas of public services to unsustainably fat levels. I have no doubt things have got worse since.
-
I had an elderly aunt who was burgled about 25 years ago.
Not only did the vermin completely trash the place they also thought it would be entertaining to smear there own shit about the place along with their urine.
.......and what of the police?
Didn't even attend as it was not considered important enough. If memory serves there was an incident number that was duly filed in the CBA section. It is probably still there with a coffee ring on it. :-\
The poor old lady refused to go back to her house of about 50 years. The incident broke her, and she died shortly after.
But hey......the police probably nicked somebody for driving at 35 MPH in a 30 MPH limit, so every cloud....... :-X :-\
-
Just some facts to consider:
Year Police Numbers UK Population (million)
2000 138,000 58.68
2003 155,000 59.64
2010 171,600 62.76
2019 150,000 67.59
Tells a story, but I will say no more!! :-X :-X ;)
-
Cheif Constables are very quick to blame everyone else for their short comings. This isn't specifically a public sector management style, but the public sector does have it honed to an art form.
-
Just some facts to consider:
Year Police Numbers UK Population (million)
2000 138,000 58.68
2003 155,000 59.64
2010 171,600 62.76
2019 150,000 67.59
Tells a story, but I will say no more!! :-X :-X ;)
I find it more alarming that there are 10 million more people living on this small island than there were 20 years ago. :-\
-
Cheif Constables are very quick to blame everyone else for their short comings. This isn't specifically a public sector management style, but the public sector does have it honed to an art form.
Oh yes, they could do better, and hopefully with greater numbers, and many chief's retiring, things will change. They are aware of the public's perception of the whole police service, and know they must do a lot better! ;)
-
Just some facts to consider:
Year Police Numbers UK Population (million)
2000 138,000 58.68
2003 155,000 59.64
2010 171,600 62.76
2019 150,000 67.59
Tells a story, but I will say no more!! :-X :-X ;)
Nothing in those figures that nearly fifteen years of labour government and a global recession can't explain. Although a significant increase in certain crimes only serves to highlight the problem.
-
Just some facts to consider:
Year Police Numbers UK Population (million)
2000 138,000 58.68
2003 155,000 59.64
2010 171,600 62.76
2019 150,000 67.59
Tells a story, but I will say no more!! :-X :-X ;)
I find it more alarming that there are 10 million more people living on this small island than there were 20 years ago. :-\
Well Jimmy944 correctly touched on that reason; Blair's open borders policy, especially from Eastern Europe.
Funny how many "Polish", "Romanian" or others from that area are found to be involved in crime, and that certainly has helped no one! ::) ::) :-X
Sorry, as DG was typing I was typing this, and he beat me to it! ;D ;D ;)
-
Indeed, add to that his 'everyone should go to university' policy which completely devalued any career choice that didn't involve 3yrs in lecture theatres / drinking establishments (delete as appropriate) and we fast became a nation stuffed with useless degrees and certificates in doing each other's hair and nails but deficient in the core trades.
Hence we needed those immigrants, just to make the nation function ::)
-
I don't like saying anything derogatory about fellow members but this one has really pushed my buttons.
My goodness Lizzie, I have never come across anyone so blinkered when it comes to the Police. I can't even be bothered to go through the reasons again and this thread is not particularly fair to serving officers who are members here, but my reasons have absolutely nothing to do with under funding/cutbacks whatever. It was first line officers that let us down, not the CPS/The force/Chief of Police etc. Respect should breed respect (both ways obviously) but if an individual officer shows lack of respect or CBA it brings the force down, as THAT is what people remember. There are a lot of decent coppers out there but they are being tarnished by the 'Useless' one's (your words not mine).
And contrary to what TB may think, my annoyance has absolutely nothing to do with speeding. ;D
-
I don't like saying anything derogatory about fellow members but this one has really pushed my buttons.
My goodness Lizzie, I have never come across anyone so blinkered when it comes to the Police. I can't even be bothered to go through the reasons again and this thread is not particularly fair to serving officers who are members here, but my reasons have absolutely nothing to do with under funding/cutbacks whatever. It was first line officers that let us down, not the CPS/The force/Chief of Police etc. Respect should breed this respect (both ways obviously) but if an individual officer shows lack of respect or CBA it brings the force down, as THAT is what people remember. There are a lot of decent coppers out there but they are being tarnished by the 'Useless' one's (your words not mine).
And contrary to what TB may think, my annoyance has absolutely nothing to do with speeding. ;D
I am certainly not blinkered, that is why I try to assist them by giving my time and effort. I have witnessed very efficient and effective officers doing their job, but seen others who are certainly not so good! That is why I don't just sit back and moan but actually go out there and assist them in any small way I can as a responsible and honest member of the public who has also had family and friends "in the force". I am therefore prepared to voice my support, even if it causes me to be insulted. But you have your opinions, I have mine. So be it :y
As for this thread not being fair to serving officers, how do you work that one out when I am trying to defend them and echo the feelings of at least the ones I meet?
They are, like everyone else not perfect, but the good, fully committed, officers who risk everything for us far out weigh those that do not. ;)
EDIT: I have studied this and the Dave's Omega threads for how those officers "let us down" with an explanation. I can find no post. Where is it please? ;)
-
Seen as I caused all this argument :-[ by my other thread ...
My thoughts are that the police do a good job when they can !
they have more important things than worry about my 16 Y/O car being damaged
We need a lot more police and we need jobs like mental health etc dealt with by trained medical staff,not police.
we need much tougher sentences and deterrents handed out.
I've got the bumper back to where it should be, I'll need to paint it but it needed some paint anyway (though now there is a lot more work involved paint wise) had I claimed ,my car may have been wrote off ,where do I find another :-\ (that is not a steaming festering rusty turd )My insurance for both cars would increase and probably my house insurance too.
back to the police , currently I have little faith as far as being protected ,purely because I know how busy they are dealing with the scum on the streets :( so I have CCTV,alarm and other security measures etc to deter being a target for the scum
-
Your insurance won't go up... You're claim is directly against theirs... ::) which will rightly go up a lot, as they're the type of driver that doesn't inform their insurer of a fault accident.
And if it does go up next year, shop around. Which you should anyway ;)
-
Peter Hitchens has some interesting views on the subject.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6993553/PETER-HITCHENS-time-view-police-just-like-failed-industries.html
I was amazed to read recently of a driver being prosecuted for being over the legal limit for Cocaine. How can there be a legal limit for Cocaine ?!
-
Your insurance won't go up... You're claim is directly against theirs... ::) which will rightly go up a lot, as they're the type of driver that doesn't inform their insurer of a fault accident.
And if it does go up next year, shop around. Which you should anyway ;)
your flagged on insurance database even if you claim against the guilty party (because effectively you and your car where in an area that a crash happened ,it's wrong to be penalized but that is what happens)
hence, I recently used My CCTV to get a bus company to replace Mrs Builder's wing mirror ,rather than claim ;)
you have to declare the claim when renewing or getting quotes,so some companies won't quote you (once you tick the box to say you had an accident/made a claim, even though your completely innocent)
I shop around every year for insurance and I compare prices before buying anything , I'm a tight B*****d ;D
-
Peter Hitchens has some interesting views on the subject.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6993553/PETER-HITCHENS-time-view-police-just-like-failed-industries.html
I was amazed to read recently of a driver being prosecuted for being over the legal limit for Cocaine. How can there be a legal limit for Cocaine ?!
I have a laugh when I watch police interceptors/road wars etc
they say things like "your arrested for being over the prescribed limit for cocaine "
where is this Doctor that prescribes cocaine ;D how much Charlie does he prescribe :-X
-
You haven't had an accident, and you haven't claimed against your insurance, ergo, neither has happened. ;)
-
Seen as I caused all this argument :-[ by my other thread ...
My thoughts are that the police do a good job when they can !
they have more important things than worry about my 16 Y/O car being damaged
We need a lot more police and we need jobs like mental health etc dealt with by trained medical staff,not police.
we need much tougher sentences and deterrents handed out.
I've got the bumper back to where it should be, I'll need to paint it but it needed some paint anyway (though now there is a lot more work involved paint wise) had I claimed ,my car may have been wrote off ,where do I find another :-\ (that is not a steaming festering rusty turd )My insurance for both cars would increase and probably my house insurance too.
back to the police , currently I have little faith as far as being protected ,purely because I know how busy they are dealing with the scum on the streets :( so I have CCTV,alarm and other security measures etc to deter being a target for the scum
Oh dear, no it is not you but me Dave! :o :o ;)
I just have dared,,yet again, to bring a serious discussion to the Forum, apart from those to do with cars! ::) ::)
Silly me, I should have known there are some very sensitive men who do not like a debate that challenges their feelings and beliefs from another viewpoint, without then getting all upset and emotional - worse than a women!! ::) ;D ;D ;D
Debates are going to "push buttons" , but there you go, such is life! I'm just one who loves a debate like we had as a family, in work, at college and uni, especially when something is being said to just insult others with rude, generalising comments, then I insult them!! ::) ;D ;D
:-X
You are right though Dave, slight damage is nothing compared to what is happening out there that the police are trying to deal with in priority order, but get real stick from us public (like they had from me over a case not that long ago!)! ;)
-
Peter Hitchens has some interesting views on the subject.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6993553/PETER-HITCHENS-time-view-police-just-like-failed-industries.html
I was amazed to read recently of a driver being prosecuted for being over the legal limit for Cocaine. How can there be a legal limit for Cocaine ?!
:y :y
And people think I'm so opinuated!! ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;)
-
.......
EDIT: I have studied this and the Dave's Omega threads for how those officers "let us down" with an explanation. I can find no post. Where is it please? ;)
What the hell has this got to do with Dave's thread. You started a new thread asking why people thought the Police were useless and then recited an article about cutbacks and some Chief of Police knowing what the problem is with being thought of as useless.
I'll tell you just one example of why I think that, and I'd like your opinion on how you would defend their incompetence. I have posted about this before but people probably still think I'm anti Police.
A young girl leaves a party late at night. A disgruntled ex boyfriend attacks her with an iron bar. My son and daughter-in-law intervene and stop the attack. My son has his head cracked open when he turns his back on the attacker to check on the girl and ends up in hospital. The Police know the attacker (named by the girl) but won't go around his house that night as ' his mum is a nice lady and we don't need to disturb her so late at night'. As if that didn't annoy me, what happened next did. They went to his house the next morning, found the iron bar with skin and hair on and put it in an evidence bag and placed it in a Police van. It stayed there for long enough for the bag to sweat and the iron bar started to get surface rust on it. Police Officer knocks on our door and told us that the bar was now inadmissible in court. It turned out that the lad concerned was a druggie and that's how the coppers knew his mum was a 'nice lady'.
Lizzie, this is just one example of how I feel let down. It was an individual copper that wouldn't go to the house that night. It was an individual copper that put the iron bar in a van to sweat in the heat. It had nothing to do with 'The Force' or cutbacks.
Now can you understand why I get pissy when this subject comes up. If you really want to find the other reasons, just search OOF for 'Police' under my username. I'm not the only one either, many people on here have voiced their own personal experiences.
As for my comment on ex or serving officers, I didn't want it to become a copper kicking thread, as that can be what they appear to be once people voice their own experiences.
-
You haven't had an accident, and you haven't claimed against your insurance, ergo, neither has happened. ;)
Indeed
I never drove anywhere yesterday and I did not crash my Omega either :-X
I was posting a reply about CCTV and dog poo ;D
-
Seen as I caused all this argument :-[ by my other thread ...
My thoughts are that the police do a good job when they can !
they have more important things than worry about my 16 Y/O car being damaged
We need a lot more police and we need jobs like mental health etc dealt with by trained medical staff,not police.
we need much tougher sentences and deterrents handed out.
I've got the bumper back to where it should be, I'll need to paint it but it needed some paint anyway (though now there is a lot more work involved paint wise) had I claimed ,my car may have been wrote off ,where do I find another :-\ (that is not a steaming festering rusty turd )My insurance for both cars would increase and probably my house insurance too.
back to the police , currently I have little faith as far as being protected ,purely because I know how busy they are dealing with the scum on the streets :( so I have CCTV,alarm and other security measures etc to deter being a target for the scum
There was a documented case of someones insurance going up purely because they dobbed in a neighbour for , if I remember correctly, driving under the influence of alcohol. So It wouldnt surprise if your insurance also goes up even though the other party was at fault.
Shame he/she didn't do the decent thing and stop. As I said earlier society has changed and no doubt their attitude whilst driving off was :
Stuff em, shouldn't have been parked there
He will be insured
I am too important to stop
Police wont be bothered
-
Seen as I caused all this argument :-[ by my other thread ...
My thoughts are that the police do a good job when they can !
they have more important things than worry about my 16 Y/O car being damaged
We need a lot more police and we need jobs like mental health etc dealt with by trained medical staff,not police.
we need much tougher sentences and deterrents handed out.
I've got the bumper back to where it should be, I'll need to paint it but it needed some paint anyway (though now there is a lot more work involved paint wise) had I claimed ,my car may have been wrote off ,where do I find another :-\ (that is not a steaming festering rusty turd )My insurance for both cars would increase and probably my house insurance too.
back to the police , currently I have little faith as far as being protected ,purely because I know how busy they are dealing with the scum on the streets :( so I have CCTV,alarm and other security measures etc to deter being a target for the scum
There was a documented case of someones insurance going up purely because they dobbed in a neighbour for , if I remember correctly, driving under the influence of alcohol. So It wouldnt surprise if your insurance also goes up even though the other party was at fault.
Shame he/she didn't do the decent thing and stop. As I said earlier society has changed and no doubt their attitude whilst driving off was :
Stuff em, shouldn't have been parked there
He will be insured
I am too important to stop
Police wont be bothered
I'd be mortified if I hit someone's car ,even if it was an older car
I'd find the owner and do the decent thing (probably pay cash for any repair etc)
there seems to be a massive increase in crime,theft,vandalism and selfish people who have no respect for other people's belongings or the law
If I did anything wrong when I was young ,I got a good smack,
one generation on ,that is frowned upon ,considered child abuse
one generation on ,crime,theft,vandalism rockets
coincidence :-\
-
.......
EDIT: I have studied this and the Dave's Omega threads for how those officers "let us down" with an explanation. I can find no post. Where is it please? ;)
What the hell has this got to do with Dave's thread. You started a new thread asking why people thought the Police were useless and then recited an article about cutbacks and some Chief of Police knowing what the problem is with being thought of as useless.
I'll tell you just one example of why I think that, and I'd like your opinion on how you would defend their incompetence. I have posted about this before but people probably still think I'm anti Police.
A young girl leaves a party late at night. A disgruntled ex boyfriend attacks her with an iron bar. My son and daughter-in-law intervene and stop the attack. My son has his head cracked open when he turns his back on the attacker to check on the girl and ends up in hospital. The Police know the attacker (named by the girl) but won't go around his house that night as ' his mum is a nice lady and we don't need to disturb her so late at night'. As if that didn't annoy me, what happened next did. They went to his house the next morning, found the iron bar with skin and hair on and put it in an evidence bag and placed it in a Police van. It stayed there for long enough for the bag to sweat and the iron bar started to get surface rust on it. Police Officer knocks on our door and told us that the bar was now inadmissible in court. It turned out that the lad concerned was a druggie and that's how the coppers knew his mum was a 'nice lady'.
Lizzie, this is just one example of how I feel let down. It was an individual copper that wouldn't go to the house that night. It was an individual copper that put the iron bar in a van to sweat in the heat. It had nothing to do with 'The Force' or cutbacks.
Now can you understand why I get pissy when this subject comes up. If you really want to find the other reasons, just search OOF for 'Police' under my username. I'm not the only one either, many people on here have voiced their own personal experiences.
As for my comment on ex or serving officers, I didn't want it to become a copper kicking thread, as that can be what they appear to be once people voice their own experiences.
Because that is where the origins to the current discussion about police response, or non response started ;)
Then: no, I explained a serious case that I was involved in where it was seen "the police" did not react in the right way, then the CPS were shown to be adverse to risk. I did not recite anything and did not say anything like "some Chief of Police knowing what the problem is with being thought of as useless" just a Chief Constable stating the justice system is broken, never admitting to them being "useless" ::) ::)
Now YZ250, let's start again........especially now you have fully explained your reasons why you are dissatisfied after being let down by the police (and I suggest by the CPS given what you say about the matter of the iron bar) which I greatly sympathise with. I would be pissed off as well!
You see your case it not too dissimilar to the one I explained. Certain facts about police and CPS perceived failures are linked. You, and I also agree that it is wrong to out and out slag off the police, and that is why I started this thread to outline what are perceived to be the problems. Indeed, you and I recognise that many officers do a good, if not great job, although actually, in practice, that is so frequently not seen by the general public. Often all that goes on behind the scenes is hidden.
But, I repeat, it is the numbers that can so often be the difference to what is perceived as a great response, to being the reverse. When a police control room have six, if they are lucky, police local patrols, with some being single manned, covering a huge chunk of a county, what can they do when there are separate knife attacks, physical assaults, a domestic with mental health issues, an armed robbery, and a car incident, with no one injured, oh, and then a report of a burglary in progress? They have to prioritise. Then some members of the public will be left impressed, others will be very disappointed and angry. Your understandable beef about the officer not going into the house MAY be one of those cases were he was single crewed - actually due to the cutbacks - and with no back up could not safely enter the property, and if they knew they could, safely, go there the next day, that is what that copper did. Health & Safety does affect the police and emergency services as I have hinted about, and they must not knowingly put their lives in danger, or anyone else's including fellow officers, although many routinely do as in the Reading incident :'(
As for evidence gathering, that up until recently, could be often down to one PC who would be commanded to investigate a case, but was only able to do so when on duty. Now, I have been assured, the case like you mentioned, and the case I described, would be dealt with by a DS with a team, under what is called a "New Horizon" policy. With the extra 20k officers, once they are fully on stream in about two years time, things should get better. ;)
So I think you and I are not talking at cross purposes! 8) 8) :D ;)
-
.......
Now YZ250, let's start again........especially now you have fully explained your reasons why you are dissatisfied after being let down by the police ......
My blood pressure has just started to come down to normal levels so for my own health I won't re-visit this thread. ;D
In the absence of a 'shaking hand' smiley, I'll leave it at that. :y
-
.......
Now YZ250, let's start again........especially now you have fully explained your reasons why you are dissatisfied after being let down by the police ......
My blood pressure has just started to come down to normal levels so for my own health I won't re-visit this thread. ;D
In the absence of a 'shaking hand' smiley, I'll leave it at that. :y
Thank you for that, and I apologise for any offence I may have caused, with the effect on your blood pressure :) :) ;)
Believe me, i know what that is like! ;D ;D :y
-
a few years back my wallet was nicked in the local pub, cards stopped that night.
following morning "someone" used my card to fill a car in Leeds,
that evening the other card was used to fill a car,
slam dunk said I garages have cctv, you have them, car reg and video of the perp.
too much bother apparently, I thought the cops would welcome a crime and clear up on the stats?
the following week my wife was pulled for driving over a white line to get round roadworks........... 3 points
-
Ignoring the occasional arrogant piece of shit copper, who wants to be there just to be an arse, I find most are reasonable, down to earth people doing the best they can.
But they are not allowed to when catching the phone users is easier than sorting more serious crime - not that using a phone is acceptable. But nor is armed robbery.
You said in another thread, LZ, that the plod wouldn't attend without armed backup (which they never even bothered calling), but that does not excuse them for not taking evidence. Nope, its going to involve a bit more manpower, so give a crime number instead.
Another thing that gets my goat is my local full time station (Brakkers is very, very part time), all the staff use marked company cars to drive 3 miles to the Super Sausage. Yes, they deserve breaks, but not to use company cars to drive from the cop shop to breakkie. Its not a clever idea, is it.
-
Ignoring the occasional arrogant piece of shit copper, who wants to be there just to be an arse, I find most are reasonable, down to earth people doing the best they can.
But they are not allowed to when catching the phone users is easier than sorting more serious crime - not that using a phone is acceptable. But nor is armed robbery.
You said in another thread, LZ, that the plod wouldn't attend without armed backup (which they never even bothered calling), but that does not excuse them for not taking evidence. Nope, its going to involve a bit more manpower, so give a crime number instead.
Another thing that gets my goat is my local full time station (Brakkers is very, very part time), all the staff use marked company cars to drive 3 miles to the Super Sausage. Yes, they deserve breaks, but not to use company cars to drive from the cop shop to breakkie. Its not a clever idea, is it.
No, I couldn't agree more TB, as they should, if not must do that! :y
-
Ignoring the occasional arrogant piece of shit copper, who wants to be there just to be an arse, I find most are reasonable, down to earth people doing the best they can.
But they are not allowed to when catching the phone users is easier than sorting more serious crime - not that using a phone is acceptable. But nor is armed robbery.
You said in another thread, LZ, that the plod wouldn't attend without armed backup (which they never even bothered calling), but that does not excuse them for not taking evidence. Nope, its going to involve a bit more manpower, so give a crime number instead.
Another thing that gets my goat is my local full time station (Brakkers is very, very part time), all the staff use marked company cars to drive 3 miles to the Super Sausage. Yes, they deserve breaks, but not to use company cars to drive from the cop shop to breakkie. Its not a clever idea, is it.
No, I couldn't agree more TB, as they should, if not must do that! :y
I need your rose tinted glasses.
We had a spate of cashpoint "issues" here a couple of years ago - to the point there were none in the town accessible when the shops were shut, only the ones inside Coop and Budgens - and they were always empty.
I got chatting, one pleasant Friday night down the pub, to one of the assistant managers at a larger supermarket, and how the police weren't interested, even when the security bloke driving around in the big armed van was attacked vicisously to steal the case. Again no evidence gathering. The cctv was offered, but turned down. I suspect a crime number was given, so that's alright then.
-
Ignoring the occasional arrogant piece of shit copper, who wants to be there just to be an arse, I find most are reasonable, down to earth people doing the best they can.
But they are not allowed to when catching the phone users is easier than sorting more serious crime - not that using a phone is acceptable. But nor is armed robbery.
You said in another thread, LZ, that the plod wouldn't attend without armed backup (which they never even bothered calling), but that does not excuse them for not taking evidence. Nope, its going to involve a bit more manpower, so give a crime number instead.
Another thing that gets my goat is my local full time station (Brakkers is very, very part time), all the staff use marked company cars to drive 3 miles to the Super Sausage. Yes, they deserve breaks, but not to use company cars to drive from the cop shop to breakkie. Its not a clever idea, is it.
No, I couldn't agree more TB, as they should, if not must do that! :y
I need your rose tinted glasses.
We had a spate of cashpoint "issues" here a couple of years ago - to the point there were none in the town accessible when the shops were shut, only the ones inside Coop and Budgens - and they were always empty.
I got chatting, one pleasant Friday night down the pub, to one of the assistant managers at a larger supermarket, and how the police weren't interested, even when the security bloke driving around in the big armed van was attacked vicisously to steal the case. Again no evidence gathering. The cctv was offered, but turned down. I suspect a crime number was given, so that's alright then.
Well sorry TB, you cannot have them! :o :o ;D ;D ;D ;)
In actual fact I have not got them either contrary to common opinion here! ::) ::) :P :P
I have just learnt to take each day at a time, and look at the positives I can identify before, then, identifying the negatives, often bad ones that can't be ignored. When I find them I shout, and shout loud, in various directions to many authorities, companies and individuals. That way I get results, like full refunds, compensation, and helping to make others see how changes of policy could assist their entity.
With the police I am as an advisor, what they call, a critical friend, who advises in a positive, constructive way, and still make my very strong feelings known as and when necessary. That I learned many years ago in business management when I was known as not being a "yes" woman. Strangely that was highly valued by one director in particular, but others as well, which put me on a fast track promotion, helped initially by exposing a serious criminal within the company who was highly rated by them. No matter what they said I knew, and then could prove he was bent; subsequently he went to prison! As did others I exposed during the course of my duties.
I could go on and on about this, but I have lived a life where I gained by praising the positive, before demolishing the negative over and over again. An added benefit of that is my blood pressure is kept low and I look, I am told, young for my age! :o :o ;D ;D ;D ;)
But everyone to their own; we all handle life, real gritty life, the best we do! 8) 8) 8) :y
-
I counted 15 in it ......