Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Varche on 06 January 2020, 19:28:25
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Grapevine reveals Rota and moron de la Frontera having largest build up of USA personnel , kit etc since Gulf War 2003.
USA did negotiate in December to increase military presence in Spain. Coincidence? Storm in a tea cup?
My concern is the Iran nuclear deal is now dead even though the EU hoped it wasn’t.
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Israel will never, ever let Iran get anywhere near have a deliverable nuclear arsenal. If they fear that moment is getting near, they will start bombing. Iran will, no doubt, retaliate and that's when Uncle Sam will have run out of choices.
But Iran is still years off having the capability.
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Might be better to take them on now before they develop the capability ? The U.S. would never be seriously be at risk of losing so might be best to lance the boil rather than keep letting them poison the whole middle east.
On the other hand, U.S. troops coming home in body bags don't win elections, so might need to be a remote control drone type offensive.
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Israel will never, ever let Iran get anywhere near have a deliverable nuclear arsenal. If they fear that moment is getting near, they will start bombing. Iran will, no doubt, retaliate and that's when Uncle Sam will have run out of choices.
But Iran is still years off having the capability.
Good to have that in depth analisys . I will be able to sleep tonight. :y
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Once the Ayatollah's stop weeping their crocodile tears for Soleimani as they realise that the USA has handily eliminated a potential problem where a protege gets over popular and powerful, I expect they will be chuckling at the weak Western world collectively pissing their pants in fear at what their medieval dictatorship might do in return..... ::) :-X
The BBC yesterday solemnly reported the events in Tehran as if he was a conquering hero slain on the battlefield leading his troops into action and as if he was one of ours! >:( I've wondered if they'd had complaints as they put a slight bit of context into their reports today.... ::)
Personally I think we should be thankful that he is enjoying his 74 virgins as I expect many in the ME are quietly celebrating in the privacy of their living rooms that the murderous bastard is no more. Apparently he was responsible for 1500 deaths in the recent protests in Iran and many more undoubtedly banged up indefinitely without trial. We shouldn't forget that Iran has been slowly but surely ratcheting up their actions for some time and over the last 6 months in particular with the missile attacks on the tankers, the hijacking of the British tanker, the attack on the Aramco oil facility in Saudi Arabia, the attack on the US base in Iraq and the attempted storming of the US Embassy in Baghdad, which the US apparently intercepted Solemani's phone call giving the orders for that. There's also the support for the Houthi rebels in Yemen, Hamas, Hezbollah and Syria's Assad. ::) So in my opinion it's about time someone fired a shot across their bows! :y
I do feel sorry though for the 74 virgins, but I expect that in this day and age they are all 84 year old spinsters! :)
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Good riddance to the pork dodger
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Well, it has escalated. Iran has just lobbed a load of missiles into a base in Iraq used by U.S. personnel.
What will Donald do next ?
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Probably just laugh at the Iranians... ::)
Not sure what to make of the Ukrainian 737 crash though :-\ Appeared to come down in one piece, which suggests that it wasn't shot down... That said the Iranians will probably try to blame Donald regardless...
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I've read that the Ukrainian plane was 'heavily fragmented' and they're saying it was engine failure..... Hmmmm. :-\
There was also an apparent earthquake last night measuring 4.7 on the Richter scale in Iran and near one of it's nuclear facilities..... Hmmmm. :-\
::)
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I've read that the Ukrainian plane was 'heavily fragmented' and they're saying it was engine failure..... Hmmmm. :-\
There was also an apparent earthquake last night measuring 4.7 on the Richter scale in Iran and near one of it's nuclear facilities..... Hmmmm. :-\
::)
Been speaking to Rods, have we?
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I've read that the Ukrainian plane was 'heavily fragmented' and they're saying it was engine failure..... Hmmmm. :-\
There was also an apparent earthquake last night measuring 4.7 on the Richter scale in Iran and near one of it's nuclear facilities..... Hmmmm. :-\
::)
Been speaking to Rods, have we?
No, but the other strange thing is that the media are largely quiet about last nights attacks by Iran. No reports of casualties or damage at the bases targeted, even Jeremy Whine is talking about other things.... Australian camels specifically. ::)
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I've read that the Ukrainian plane was 'heavily fragmented' and they're saying it was engine failure..... Hmmmm. :-\
There was also an apparent earthquake last night measuring 4.7 on the Richter scale in Iran and near one of it's nuclear facilities..... Hmmmm. :-\
::)
Been speaking to Rods, have we?
No, but the other strange thing is that the media are largely quiet about last nights attacks by Iran. No reports of casualties or damage at the bases targeted, even Jeremy Whine is talking about other things.... Australian camels specifically. ::)
Probably just hoping it will all go away. We've had years of shouty Arabs threatening to bring destruction to the western world. Last nights missile attack just about sums it up. They landed somewhere near where they were supposed to and a few just thudded into the ground without so much as a pop. ;D
If that makes Iran feel better about itself, then we can all have a nice cup of tea and move on.
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I've read that the Ukrainian plane was 'heavily fragmented' and they're saying it was engine failure..... Hmmmm. :-\
There was also an apparent earthquake last night measuring 4.7 on the Richter scale in Iran and near one of it's nuclear facilities..... Hmmmm. :-\
::)
Been speaking to Rods, have we?
No, but the other strange thing is that the media are largely quiet about last nights attacks by Iran. No reports of casualties or damage at the bases targeted, even Jeremy Whine is talking about other things.... Australian camels specifically. ::)
Probably just hoping it will all go away. We've had years of shouty Arabs threatening to bring destruction to the western world. Last nights missile attack just about sums it up. They landed somewhere near where they were supposed to and a few just thudded into the ground without so much as a pop. ;D
If that makes Iran feel better about itself, then we can all have a nice cup of tea and move on.
I've seen theories on other sites that the Yanks were notified about the attacks and that the missiles would land in the desert nearby. A neat face saving solution for the Ayatollahs? ???
You can't beat a good conspiracy theory! ;D
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Talking of which, it has been reported that the Iranians are refusing to release the FDRs to Boeing... Political ruse or guilty conscience? You decide...
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I've read that the Ukrainian plane was 'heavily fragmented' and they're saying it was engine failure..... Hmmmm. :-\
There was also an apparent earthquake last night measuring 4.7 on the Richter scale in Iran and near one of it's nuclear facilities..... Hmmmm. :-\
::)
Been speaking to Rods, have we?
No, but the other strange thing is that the media are largely quiet about last nights attacks by Iran. No reports of casualties or damage at the bases targeted, even Jeremy Whine is talking about other things.... Australian camels specifically. ::)
Probably just hoping it will all go away. We've had years of shouty Arabs threatening to bring destruction to the western world. Last nights missile attack just about sums it up. They landed somewhere near where they were supposed to and a few just thudded into the ground without so much as a pop. ;D
If that makes Iran feel better about itself, then we can all have a nice cup of tea and move on.
I've seen theories on other sites that the Yanks were notified about the attacks and that the missiles would land in the desert nearby. A neat face saving solution for the Ayatollahs? ???
You can't beat a good conspiracy theory! ;D
The oldest political tactic in the book is, when your people are getting uppity and taking to the streets, try to unite them against a common enemy. It's a pity Iran didn't have this episode happen a bit earlier, it would have saved them murdering a few hundred of their own on the streets of Tehran.
China and, more recently, Russia, are cutting off their countries from the www. Same reason, they can feed the population bullshit about the big, bad western world, and there's no way they'll know any different.
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Once the Ayatollah's stop weeping their crocodile tears for Soleimani as they realise that the USA has handily eliminated a potential problem where a protege gets over popular and powerful, I expect they will be chuckling at the weak Western world collectively pissing their pants in fear at what their medieval dictatorship might do in return..... ::) :-X
The BBC yesterday solemnly reported the events in Tehran as if he was a conquering hero slain on the battlefield leading his troops into action and as if he was one of ours! >:( I've wondered if they'd had complaints as they put a slight bit of context into their reports today.... ::)
Personally I think we should be thankful that he is enjoying his 74 virgins as I expect many in the ME are quietly celebrating in the privacy of their living rooms that the murderous bastard is no more. Apparently he was responsible for 1500 deaths in the recent protests in Iran and many more undoubtedly banged up indefinitely without trial. We shouldn't forget that Iran has been slowly but surely ratcheting up their actions for some time and over the last 6 months in particular with the missile attacks on the tankers, the hijacking of the British tanker, the attack on the Aramco oil facility in Saudi Arabia, the attack on the US base in Iraq and the attempted storming of the US Embassy in Baghdad, which the US apparently intercepted Solemani's phone call giving the orders for that. There's also the support for the Houthi rebels in Yemen, Hamas, Hezbollah and Syria's Assad. ::) So in my opinion it's about time someone fired a shot across their bows! :y
I do feel sorry though for the 74 virgins, but I expect that in this day and age they are all 84 year old spinsters! :)
If this is the case they'll be so dried up they'll peel his cock like a banana when he enters them. :)
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Once the Ayatollah's stop weeping their crocodile tears for Soleimani as they realise that the USA has handily eliminated a potential problem where a protege gets over popular and powerful, I expect they will be chuckling at the weak Western world collectively pissing their pants in fear at what their medieval dictatorship might do in return..... ::) :-X
The BBC yesterday solemnly reported the events in Tehran as if he was a conquering hero slain on the battlefield leading his troops into action and as if he was one of ours! >:( I've wondered if they'd had complaints as they put a slight bit of context into their reports today.... ::)
Personally I think we should be thankful that he is enjoying his 74 virgins as I expect many in the ME are quietly celebrating in the privacy of their living rooms that the murderous bastard is no more. Apparently he was responsible for 1500 deaths in the recent protests in Iran and many more undoubtedly banged up indefinitely without trial. We shouldn't forget that Iran has been slowly but surely ratcheting up their actions for some time and over the last 6 months in particular with the missile attacks on the tankers, the hijacking of the British tanker, the attack on the Aramco oil facility in Saudi Arabia, the attack on the US base in Iraq and the attempted storming of the US Embassy in Baghdad, which the US apparently intercepted Solemani's phone call giving the orders for that. There's also the support for the Houthi rebels in Yemen, Hamas, Hezbollah and Syria's Assad. ::) So in my opinion it's about time someone fired a shot across their bows! :y
I do feel sorry though for the 74 virgins, but I expect that in this day and age they are all 84 year old spinsters! :)
If this is the case they'll be so dried up they'll peel his cock like a banana when he enters them. :)
If there is a God, then this is probably indeed the case. The muppets go to their martyrdom expecting 74 beautiful girls in the flower of their youth, but the reality is very different. :) Poetic justice? :D
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Once the Ayatollah's stop weeping their crocodile tears for Soleimani as they realise that the USA has handily eliminated a potential problem where a protege gets over popular and powerful, I expect they will be chuckling at the weak Western world collectively pissing their pants in fear at what their medieval dictatorship might do in return..... ::) :-X
The BBC yesterday solemnly reported the events in Tehran as if he was a conquering hero slain on the battlefield leading his troops into action and as if he was one of ours! >:( I've wondered if they'd had complaints as they put a slight bit of context into their reports today.... ::)
Personally I think we should be thankful that he is enjoying his 74 virgins as I expect many in the ME are quietly celebrating in the privacy of their living rooms that the murderous bastard is no more. Apparently he was responsible for 1500 deaths in the recent protests in Iran and many more undoubtedly banged up indefinitely without trial. We shouldn't forget that Iran has been slowly but surely ratcheting up their actions for some time and over the last 6 months in particular with the missile attacks on the tankers, the hijacking of the British tanker, the attack on the Aramco oil facility in Saudi Arabia, the attack on the US base in Iraq and the attempted storming of the US Embassy in Baghdad, which the US apparently intercepted Solemani's phone call giving the orders for that. There's also the support for the Houthi rebels in Yemen, Hamas, Hezbollah and Syria's Assad. ::) So in my opinion it's about time someone fired a shot across their bows! :y
I do feel sorry though for the 74 virgins, but I expect that in this day and age they are all 84 year old spinsters! :)
If this is the case they'll be so dried up they'll peel his cock like a banana when he enters them. :)
If there is a God, then this is probably indeed the case. The muppets go to their martyrdom expecting 74 beautiful girls in the flower of their youth, but the reality is very different. :) Poetic justice? :D
That is the sad fact. Both many Westerners and Iranians believe in God. They honour and respect his love, forgiveness and tolerance of us, his children. But elements on both sides chuck out all their beliefs, IF they have any, and commit to war, murder, and cruelty to the many.
Only once we ALL live in peace and love, regardless of belief or not, can we hope to move on as one. That is pure common sense. One thing is for sure the short and long term wages of sin is death, and if those fools who think they can murder and torture others can be "rewarded" by God - a flaw in both so called "Christians" and "Muslims" - then they are in for a terrible shock >:(
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Not sure what to make of the Ukrainian 737 crash though :-\ Appeared to come down in one piece, which suggests that it wasn't shot down...
Not just a simple case of the autopilot being set to a 27 runway, which disables all the instrumentation on a 737NG ?
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Not sure what to make of the Ukrainian 737 crash though :-\ Appeared to come down in one piece, which suggests that it wasn't shot down...
Not just a simple case of the autopilot being set to a 27 runway, which disables all the instrumentation on a 737NG ?
If that were the case neither Norwegian nor Tui would have any left as they would all have crashed in a fireball using 27L/R at Gatwick ::)
Catastrophic uncontained engine failure isn't unheard of, and causing a fire in an aircraft full of fuel isn't beyond the realms of possibility... thanks to TWA800 and a couple of 737 fires (albeit non fatal ground fires), Fuel Tank Safety and Electrical Wiring Installation Security are two thirds of the prerequisite ongoing training required to work in commercial aircraft maintenance, and for good reason ;)
There were a number of coincidences in Iran last night, and it is currently as likely to be an issue with the aircraft as a ploy to completely discredit the global 737 fleet and ruin Boeing as an obvious American economic target, although that's a bit subtle for a normally extremist regime... third party influence perhaps :-\
It will be interesting to see what the investigation finds...
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Film has been shown tonight of the plane descending fast as a fireball before exploding as it hit the ground.
So what does an in flight fireball indicate? :( :(
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Not sure what to make of the Ukrainian 737 crash though :-\ Appeared to come down in one piece, which suggests that it wasn't shot down...
Not just a simple case of the autopilot being set to a 27 runway, which disables all the instrumentation on a 737NG ?
If that were the case neither Norwegian nor Tui would have any left as they would all have crashed in a fireball using 27L/R at Gatwick ::)
I'm sure it was 27 runways, but might have got that bit wrong. Let me see if I can find the FAA details again....
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Yeah, this one...
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgad.nsf/AOCADSearch/3948342A978CC27B862584DD005C1A60?OpenDocument
because the combination of CDS BP15 software and FMC U12 or later software installed can result in all six DUs blanking when a susceptible runway with 270 degree true heading is selected; this condition can prevent continued safe flight and landing.
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Film has been shown tonight of the plane descending fast as a fireball before exploding as it hit the ground.
So what does an in flight fireball indicate? :( :(
An onboard fire of undetermined source... ::) could be absolutely anything from a wiring short to a ballistic missile... but considering that if you set light to over 80 tons of aluminium and jet A1, it will burn hot and fast.
Overheated AC packs or a sticking brake could do it.
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The Silent Witness team will sort it now they have finished with the other plane crash. :y
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Film has been shown tonight of the plane descending fast as a fireball before exploding as it hit the ground.
So what does an in flight fireball indicate? :( :(
An onboard fire of undetermined source... ::) could be absolutely anything from a wiring short to a ballistic missile... but considering that if you set light to over 80 tons of aluminium and jet A1, it will burn hot and fast.
Overheated AC packs or a sticking brake could do it.
Thanks DG :y
It occurs to me now, after thinking about it that the Paris Concorde disaster had the plane “flying” as one horrible fireball until it crashed to the ground. The cause of course was that piece of aircraft on the runway that the Concorde picked up and threw into it’s wing fuel tank.
A repeat performance perhaps? :(
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It's possible although the crew allegedly reported no problems with the take off :-\
https://youtu.be/qs2IpWds4BA
A textbook example of a relatively innocuous issue of a fuel leak being ignited, probably by brake heat, and what happens next... No fatalities as the aircraft had just arrived at the gate. Same aircraft type coincidentally.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_800
Caused by the air-conditioning packs heating fuel vapour in the otherwise empty centre tank, enabling it to be ignited by a wiring fault in the tank sender unit. The spark was actually against the outside of the tank, but the vapour temperature was such that it ignited instantly blowing the forward fuselage off. Zero warning and no mayday calls.
Incidentally some B727 operators are currently facing forced modifications to a handful of aircraft still fitted with centre tanks to prevent a repeat of this.
Aircraft safety is a fluid and ever adapting process, and even seemingly minor issues can cause potentially catastrophic incidents to develop and once an issue is highlighted, money is no object to resolve it, even if that affects an entire airline fleet.
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UIA 737 was relatively new where it was delivered in 2016 and last had scheduled maintenance two days before the Iran flight. There is much speculation, disinformation & conspiracy theories. Pictures have shown small holes in the aircraft debris fuselage, but that maybe no more the stones hitting the fuselage from the terrain where it crashed.
A US defence journal is claiming it was shot down by an Iranian Tor-M1 in this article, but at this point IMO it can't be considered to be anything more than speculation at this time, until we know more.
https://www.defenceaviation.com/2020/01/ukrainian-international-airlines-boeing-737-800-crashed-after-being-hit-by-iranian-tor-m1-missile.html (https://www.defenceaviation.com/2020/01/ukrainian-international-airlines-boeing-737-800-crashed-after-being-hit-by-iranian-tor-m1-missile.html)
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Foul play. Had to be. ::)
Might even have been something like a lone nutter who flew a drone into it, mistaking it for an American plane. :-\
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UIA 737 was relatively new where it was delivered in 2016 and last had scheduled maintenance two days before the Iran flight. There is much speculation, disinformation & conspiracy theories. Pictures have shown small holes in the aircraft debris fuselage, but that maybe no more the stones hitting the fuselage from the terrain where it crashed.
A US defence journal is claiming it was shot down by an Iranian Tor-M1 in this article, but at this point IMO it can't be considered to be anything more than speculation at this time, until we know more.
https://www.defenceaviation.com/2020/01/ukrainian-international-airlines-boeing-737-800-crashed-after-being-hit-by-iranian-tor-m1-missile.html (https://www.defenceaviation.com/2020/01/ukrainian-international-airlines-boeing-737-800-crashed-after-being-hit-by-iranian-tor-m1-missile.html)
The news footage yesterday appeared to show someone striking a piece of fuselage with a spade ::)
Also, whilst it had undergone an inspection on the 6th, they are being very quiet about the type of inspection...
A daily check is very different to a P, D or C check and it's probably too young for an A check :-\
They also have form for not using all the available runway, although it's highly unlikely that was the issue in this case.
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It's possible although the crew allegedly reported no problems with the take off :-\
https://youtu.be/qs2IpWds4BA
A textbook example of a relatively innocuous issue of a fuel leak being ignited, probably by brake heat, and what happens next... No fatalities as the aircraft had just arrived at the gate. Same aircraft type coincidentally.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_800
Caused by the air-conditioning packs heating fuel vapour in the otherwise empty centre tank, enabling it to be ignited by a wiring fault in the tank sender unit. The spark was actually against the outside of the tank, but the vapour temperature was such that it ignited instantly blowing the forward fuselage off. Zero warning and no mayday calls.
Incidentally some B727 operators are currently facing forced modifications to a handful of aircraft still fitted with centre tanks to prevent a repeat of this.
Aircraft safety is a fluid and ever adapting process, and even seemingly minor issues can cause potentially catastrophic incidents to develop and once an issue is highlighted, money is no object to resolve it, even if that affects an entire airline fleet.
Thanks DG :y
All food for thought, but as you have said the investigations, if Iran allows them, should start to explain the exact causes(s).
Interestingly it has been stated today by the Iranian authorities that the aircraft was trying to return to the airport. They have highlighted some possible causes for the crash: catastrophic mechanical failure, a collision with a drone, missile attack, or other terrorist actions. :o :o
The Iranians, I believe, are still refusing to hand over the black boxes or let Boeing / Americans investigate ::) ::) ::)
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No doubt the Iranian government will now give millions in compensation to the family of the downed airliner when the Yanks show them the satellite imagery.
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No doubt the Iranian government will now give millions in compensation to the family of the downed airliner when the Yanks show them the satellite imagery.
Don't even joke about it ......
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51055219
I wonder what will happen next ..... :(
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Russian made anti aircraft missile system.... Ukrainian aeroplane.... ::)
I wonder if there are any Russians on the ground in Iran? ??? :-\
Rods? :)
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I wasn't joking.
Three British were on the plane.
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Don't even joke about it ......
According to Trump it was flying in a pretty rough neighbourhood! ;D
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It is as much in their interest as anyone else's to have a transparent investigation as failure to do so would potentially lead to a ban on air travel to/from Iran on the basis that it would be potentially dangerous.
The sanctions probably prevent Boeing from getting anywhere near it as much as the Iranians don't want them there... Norwegian still have a 737 Max stuck in Iran for the same reason (it had to make an emergency landing following a technical fault and they've not been allowed to get the parts in to fix it, the grounding of type notwithstanding). ;)
They have released initial findings to the interested parties, as per their legal obligations, and I suspect that the Canadian government will eventually get involved given that the majority of passengers were Canadian citizens.
One thing that I find slightly odd, is that the flight to Tehran would have landed at about 1am local time, which would been about the same time as the missile launches... Surely anyone with half a brain would close their airspace before throwing ballistic missiles around :-\
Also, Ukrainian Airlines no longer fly to Tehran...
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So, in summary.
America killed one Iranian. Iran vowed revenge. Iran then killed another 50 Iranians at the funeral. Iran then killed another 82 Iranians on an aircraft.
Iran fired missiles at American bases in Iraq, killing no one.
So, America killed 1 and Iran killed 132.......all Iranian.
That just about covers it.
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Clearly not the brightest bunch...
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Yes I think I see a slight flaw in their revenge plan ::)
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Meanwhile, in light of the media speculation about a missile downing the flight, the Iranians have officially asked that the NTSB and Boeing join the investigation, which suggests that they genuinely believe that they have nothing to hide :-\
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Meanwhile, in light of the media speculation about a missile downing the flight, the Iranians have officially asked that the NTSB and Boeing join the investigation, which suggests that they genuinely believe that they have nothing to hide :-\
The hostages investigators will be made very welcome.
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Meanwhile, in light of the media speculation about a missile downing the flight, the Iranians have officially asked that the NTSB and Boeing join the investigation, which suggests that they genuinely believe that they have nothing to hide :-\
Really? :o
Why then is the Iranians now bulldozing the crash site, still not releasing the black boxes, and already deciding they know the cause of the crash which, according to reports, the Iranians are to announce tomorrow? ::) ::)
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Meanwhile, in light of the media speculation about a missile downing the flight, the Iranians have officially asked that the NTSB and Boeing join the investigation, which suggests that they genuinely believe that they have nothing to hide :-\
Really? :o
Why then is the Iranians now bulldozing the crash site, still not releasing the black boxes, and already deciding they know the cause of the crash which, according to reports, the Iranians are to announce tomorrow? ::) ::)
Look at the time I posted and get back in your box.
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So, in summary.
America killed one Iranian. Iran vowed revenge. Iran then killed another 50 Iranians at the funeral. Iran then killed another 82 Iranians on an aircraft.
Iran fired missiles at American bases in Iraq, killing no one.
So, America killed 1 and Iran killed 132.......all Iranian.
That just about covers it.
Sadly appears to be the case...
https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/us-iran-news-intl-01-10-2020/index.html :'(
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So, in summary.
America killed one Iranian. Iran vowed revenge. Iran then killed another 50 Iranians at the funeral. Iran then killed another 82 Iranians on an aircraft.
Iran fired missiles at American bases in Iraq, killing no one.
So, America killed 1 and Iran killed 132.......all Iranian.
That just about covers it.
Sadly appears to be the case...
https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/us-iran-news-intl-01-10-2020/index.html :'(
This is really bad PR. The vehemently deny something, accusing others of having ulterior motives, then just flick to an admission and apology. This makes the people who initially made the denial look like foolish stooges who are now valueless to the regime, as they will not be taken seriously in future.
All future accusations against Iran, no doubt followed by rebuttals, will be brought back to this point and they will not be believed.
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And if you look at where we are with the nuclear agreement , what do you believe?
There is a Gulf between the USA position and that of the EU.
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From a policy perspective, the US have seen sense imho...
There's alot that Obama signed up for that he shouldn't have. The development of nuclear facilities in a country like Iran should never have been suggested in the first place.
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Hopefully things will reach a point where the everyday citizens of Iran can take back their country and rebuild it as a credible, rational nation rather than a volatile fundamentalist backwater.
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Well that's one 'mystery' sorted out. :y
Now what about the two 'earthquakes' that occurred near Iran's nuclear facilities on the same night? ??? ::)
Maybe Mr Netanyahu could shed some light on that? :-X
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Meanwhile, in light of the media speculation about a missile downing the flight, the Iranians have officially asked that the NTSB and Boeing join the investigation, which suggests that they genuinely believe that they have nothing to hide :-\
Really? :o
Why then is the Iranians now bulldozing the crash site, still not releasing the black boxes, and already deciding they know the cause of the crash which, according to reports, the Iranians are to announce tomorrow? ::) ::)
Look at the time I posted and get back in your box.
In my box! ;D ;D ;D ;D
I think my comments are now proved right! ::) ::) :D :D ;) ;)
No need to bring in Boeing or anyone else now, which was obviously never on the cards anyway as Iran knew exactly the cause of the crash >:(>:(
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So, in summary.
America killed one Iranian. Iran vowed revenge. Iran then killed another 50 Iranians at the funeral. Iran then killed another 82 Iranians on an aircraft.
Iran fired missiles at American bases in Iraq, killing no one.
So, America killed 1 and Iran killed 132.......all Iranian.
That just about covers it.
Sadly appears to be the case...
https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/us-iran-news-intl-01-10-2020/index.html :'(
This is really bad PR. The vehemently deny something, accusing others of having ulterior motives, then just flick to an admission and apology. This makes the people who initially made the denial look like foolish stooges who are now valueless to the regime, as they will not be taken seriously in future.
All future accusations against Iran, no doubt followed by rebuttals, will be brought back to this point and they will not be believed.
The Russian shooting down of MH17 and their continued denials is much worse with those that made these mistakes, with the BUK missile launch, almost certainly paying with their lives.
The same thing may well happen in Iran, we will see.
Be thankful you live in a democracy, where I've always told you in a dictatorship lives are cheap including yours, where the lease can be terminated, at anytime by the regime, with no appeal possible.
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Off topic I know :o but UK the USA and many others have nuclear arsenals for defense/attack where do we gain the right to tell any other nation state that while we have such things they are not allowed to?I'm not trying to make the case for Iran-or anywhere else to have nuclear capability,just wondering where we get the right to decide all because we don't like/trust their regime/way of life?
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Off topic I know :o but UK the USA and many others have nuclear arsenals for defense/attack where do we gain the right to tell any other nation state that while we have such things they are not allowed to?I'm not trying to make the case for Iran-or anywhere else to have nuclear capability,just wondering where we get the right to decide all because we don't like/trust their regime/way of life?
A well observed comment.
Maybe the answer is “ everyone is equal except you plebs”
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Because of the potential global catastrophic dangers from nuclear weapons. Since WWII there have been a series of global non-proliferation and inspection treaties signed by most countries in the world that can & will be backed up by international sanctions like on DPRK and to a lessor extent Iran are under, with their flouted ban on ballistic missile development. Like it or not up to WWII the UK was the unliked global police force & since then it has been the unliked US. In both cases as it has reined in many nations against the wars & geopolitical gains they would like to achieve. The post-WWII series of treaties & our current global rules based system culminating in the Helsinki Final Act. To further reduct the danger of MAD global destruction there have been a series of START treaties between the two main nuclear powers, the US and Russia.
Eg. The sanction against Russia on the annexing of Crimea are an example of punishment given by the West for breaking mutually agreed international treaties and rules. :y
It is in none of the countries who are in the nuclear club to allow unstable regimes to acquire nuclear weapons and use them to blackmail their neighbours for geopolitical gain or to start launching them around the world if they think it will save their regime. Imagine if General Galtieri with his Falkland invasion if they backed it up with ICBM nukes launched at the UK to save the Falkland's defeat and the falling of his junta. :o :o :o The fact that we could & probably would have relatiated, so you have two countries suffering horrific damage and casualties, nuclear fallout & maybe a short nuclear winter would also not be appreciated by us or them or the 200+ innocent bystander countries and this is before you start considering nuclear weapon security, terrorism or weapon safety, so they aren't accidentally or deliberately launched due to poor control procedures, design or maintenance.
We have just had the murder of 179 passengers as a result of poor training & control of the military base air-to-air defence systems, now imagine if those itchy fingers were on a nuclear ICBM button & central London Barnsley were the landing coordinates entered into it. :o
Something doesn't add up on the shooting down of the UIA passenger jet & I'm hearing some ugly rumores at the moment on why it was targeted, but nothing that as yet has been substantiated or independently verified, so I'm not going to repeat them at this time. :-X
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Off topic I know :o but UK the USA and many others have nuclear arsenals for defense/attack where do we gain the right to tell any other nation state that while we have such things they are not allowed to?I'm not trying to make the case for Iran-or anywhere else to have nuclear capability,just wondering where we get the right to decide all because we don't like/trust their regime/way of life?
Simply, nuclear weapons have been around since WW2 when everyone got to see exactly how devastating they can be. At that point, they should have been unilaterally banned. Unfortunately in the shadow of Nazi and Japanese behaviour, it was felt that, probably by the UN, that such evil should be defended against at any cost.
Nuclear development is exceptionally expensive, not to mention inherently dangerous, and so it largely restricted to countries that can afford it. Factor in the general stability of those countries with military nuclear capability and it makes for a pretty exclusive club.
Now don't misunderstand me, nuclear, and for that matter chemical weapons, have no place in a modern world and should be unilaterally outlawed.
Nuclear technology does however have a viable long term use as an energy source, indeed, most countries have at least one nuclear power plant.
Unfortunately, nuclear energy provides easy access to the technology and materials to make nuclear weapons, and for an unstable political environment such as Iran or Somalia, to name but two places, there's a temptation for various loons to take advantage of that in order to control or eliminate whomsoever pissed them off that week... (Not dissimilar to random stabbings)... hence the current status quo of restricting and closely managing all nuclear systems.
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Apparently the Iranians arrested the British Ambassador today !!
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Clearly losing the plot...
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Apparently the Iranians arrested the British Ambassador today !!
A white European, wandering around a demonstration, taking pictures.....in Iran. Not stupid at all.
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He,s supposed to be a diplomat for Gods sake. What the hell was he doing getting mixed up in a demo in a country with an oppressive regime. Perhaps HM Government can negotiate his release alongside that of the Ratcliffe woman, who was also naive to expect to change things over there.
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He was released two hours after being arrested ::)
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Yes indeed, and it has been explained he was attending a vigil (another one!) over the 176 who lost their lives in the air crash, including 3 Britains, which is what a British Diplomat should do.
He apparently left as soon as this vigil turned into an anti-Iran Government protest, which is now spreading throughout the country over what - apparently- many Iranians believing that their Government with religious leaders is more of a threat to them than the US. ::) ::)
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Finally, the fog is lifting.
Before the Ayatollahs took over, Iran had alot to offer... Hopefully that can be the case again, although I fear it will be a struggle :-\
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Yes indeed, and it has been explained he was attending a vigil (another one!) over the 176 who lost their lives in the air crash, including 3 Britains, which is what a British Diplomat should do.
He apparently left as soon as this vigil turned into an anti-Iran Government protest, which is now spreading throughout the country over what - apparently- many Iranians believing that their Government with religious leaders is more of a threat to them than the US. ::) ::)
Further to Rods2’s post, has anyone ever seen the names of these three British nationals published?
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Yes indeed, and it has been explained he was attending a vigil (another one!) over the 176 who lost their lives in the air crash, including 3 Britains, which is what a British Diplomat should do.
He apparently left as soon as this vigil turned into an anti-Iran Government protest, which is now spreading throughout the country over what - apparently- many Iranians believing that their Government with religious leaders is more of a threat to them than the US. ::) ::)
Further to Rods2’s post, has anyone ever seen the names of these four British nationals published?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51032823?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/c8eyvrq8kz0t/ukraine-iran-plane-crash&link_location=live-reporting-story
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Hadnt seen that, thanks. :y
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It wasn't a secret... ::)
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Sorry, still hadn’t seen it. :y
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Not actually proper English though were they ? ( runs and ducks for cover ) Let me guess , that's inappropriate ;)
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Not actually proper English though were they ? ( runs and ducks for cover ) Let me guess , that's inappropriate ;)
No need to duck, unless the flakes have landed on our forum.
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I prefer the term Not Local... :D
Although for some bizarre reason, Brighton has a long established Iranian community, so there's probably enough diversity there for the whole country ::)
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It would seem that[after a no doubt thorough and complete investigation]the Iranians have arrested the person who filmed the airliner being brought down :o
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It would seem that[after a no doubt thorough and complete investigation]the Iranians have arrested the person who filmed the airliner being brought down :o
A perfectly normal response from a regime that oppresses the very concept of freedom... And another spectacular own goal (as long as it is actually reported within Iran).
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Reuters have reported the arrest & it has been circulated on Twitter where Iranian citizens use it, so they will see it.
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It would seem that[after a no doubt thorough and complete investigation]the Iranians have arrested the person who filmed the airliner being brought down :o
A perfectly normal response from a regime that oppresses the very concept of freedom... And another spectacular own goal (as long as it is actually reported within Iran).
Yes, indeed. But that is the difference with modern regimes of this type and those of the past.
Back then any dissenters / witnesses to wrong doings were made to “disappear” or simply shot in their beds by a bunch of state employed thugs. This gave the leaders free reign to do what they liked to inhibit any kind of freedom.
Now, due to almost every Tom, Jane, Dick, Harry and Samantha having the technological means to record state bad actions with cameras everywhere, the state ‘only’ arrests the witness with the eyes of the world, and, very importantly, it’s own people, watching for the outcomes. This whole Iranian fiasco, being seen by a massive audience, is now back firing big time, with the Iranians seeing what their so called, highly respected, religious leaders for what they really are and what they are doing against their own population.
We all wonder about our “freedoms” being eroded with CCTV everywhere, but actually it can be seen to actually enhance democracy and our freedoms by holding our state leaders to account when evil doings are afoot. :D ;)
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Fear not, they're still shooting people... Tear gas and water cannons, having proven ineffective, have be replaced with live rounds. Unfortunately the people doing the shooting haven't quite grasped the concept of instant media. When they do, the Internet and mobile networks will be very quickly turned off. When that happens, all hell will break loose.
It won't be pretty, but the Ayatollahs' tenure is coming towards its end.
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Fear not, they're still shooting people... Tear gas and water cannons, having proven ineffective, have be replaced with live rounds. Unfortunately the people doing the shooting haven't quite grasped the concept of instant media. When they do, the Internet and mobile networks will be very quickly turned off. When that happens, all hell will break loose.
It won't be pretty, but the Ayatollahs' tenure is coming towards its end.
Yes, as with all ‘empires’ or regimes they eventually implode, with maybe just a little help from others on the outside! :D