Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Sir Tigger KC on 30 April 2020, 22:47:35
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Seen this on Twitter where people are claiming that deceased relatives are being recorded as Covid-19 victims when they died of other things and no symptoms of CV-19. :-\
https://twitter.com/BelfastGirv/status/1255089667940237312
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According to a letter, delivered through the post, to my wife's school yesterday, COVID doesn't exist at all. People are dying of 'normal' stuff and the government invented the virus because........I forget now. ;D
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According to a letter, delivered through the post, to my wife's school yesterday, COVID doesn't exist at all. People are dying of 'normal' stuff and the government invented the virus because........I forget now. ;D
Stop Brexit maybe ::) :)
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According to a letter, delivered through the post, to my wife's school yesterday, COVID doesn't exist at all. People are dying of 'normal' stuff and the government invented the virus because........I forget now. ;D
Stop Brexit maybe ::) :)
That's not going to work... We left already ::)
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Have a "friend" who works in a medical establishment,, and have been told, it's easier to put covid-19 on the certificate than trying to find the real cause, also the levels of death aren't exciding by much the levels normally reached.
Someone isn't telling the truth ???
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Politicians not telling the truth, BG? How can you even THINK that? :o
Ron.
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As everyone knows, in politics, there are several different truths, especially where numbers are concerned. We've all heard the phrase "Lies, damn lies and statistics".
Statistics are also subjective. On ads for anything from hair colour to peanut butter, it proclaims at the bottom "78% of people agreed". Great, but you could also frame it as "22%, or over one fifth, of people thought it was shite".
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Trump is now firmly stating that he “has proof” that the virus was developed in a Chinese laboratory.
The after affects of the virus will therefore be a dangerous time in many others ways other than Covid19 itself! Watch out for first trade wars....tariff ‘penalties’..........financial retribution.........then........ :o :o :o
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Trump is now firmly stating that he “has proof” that the virus was developed in a Chinese laboratory.
The after affects of the virus will therefore be a dangerous time in many others ways other than Covid19 itself! Watch out for first trade wars....tariff ‘penalties’..........financial retribution.........then........ :o :o :o
We've had all of those, except the :o :o :o
What do dictators do when the population start getting uppity? They invent a common enemy and hope to whip up a wave of patriotism. This is an election year for Trump, and those naughty Chinese make a perfect common enemy. Esp as he can make stuff up and there's no way of disproving it.
Bit like religion, Lizzie ;D
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Would be interesting to see how many death certificates were issued Oct2019--April 2020,, and the same from years previous..
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I think that too much is expected from them regarding figures , it's an awful situation for everyone who is dealing with any of it government key ,workers etc it will make absolutely no difference dwelling on what is on death certificates, what is needed is plain old commonsense and people pulling together to get through the present situation & hopefully finding a vaccine to combat this virus, which unfortunately I think is some time away.
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I think that too much is expected from them regarding figures , it's an awful situation for everyone who is dealing with any of it government key ,workers etc it will make absolutely no difference dwelling on what is on death certificates, what is needed is plain old commonsense and people pulling together to get through the present situation & hopefully finding a vaccine to combat this virus, which unfortunately I think is some time away.
Disagree. We need to know why Covid-19 is being listed as the cause of death when it wasn't. Why is this happening? ???
Simply because it's easier for officials? or is it an instruction from the top to boost death figures so they can justify the lock down? ???
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I think that too much is expected from them regarding figures , it's an awful situation for everyone who is dealing with any of it government key ,workers etc it will make absolutely no difference dwelling on what is on death certificates, what is needed is plain old commonsense and people pulling together to get through the present situation & hopefully finding a vaccine to combat this virus, which unfortunately I think is some time away.
Disagree. We need to know why Covid-19 is being listed as the cause of death when it wasn't. Why is this happening? ???
Simply because it's easier for officials? or is it an instruction from the top to boost death figures so they can justify the lock down? ???
Ask Rods, he'll know. ;D
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I think that too much is expected from them regarding figures , it's an awful situation for everyone who is dealing with any of it government key ,workers etc it will make absolutely no difference dwelling on what is on death certificates, what is needed is plain old commonsense and people pulling together to get through the present situation & hopefully finding a vaccine to combat this virus, which unfortunately I think is some time away.
Disagree. We need to know why Covid-19 is being listed as the cause of death when it wasn't. Why is this happening? ???
Simply because it's easier for officials? or is it an instruction from the top to boost death figures so they can justify the lock down? ???
Ask Rods, he'll know. ;D
Rods has disappeared! :-X :(
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I think that too much is expected from them regarding figures , it's an awful situation for everyone who is dealing with any of it government key ,workers etc it will make absolutely no difference dwelling on what is on death certificates, what is needed is plain old commonsense and people pulling together to get through the present situation & hopefully finding a vaccine to combat this virus, which unfortunately I think is some time away.
Disagree. We need to know why Covid-19 is being listed as the cause of death when it wasn't. Why is this happening? ???
Simply because it's easier for officials? or is it an instruction from the top to boost death figures so they can justify the lock down? ???
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Why would they need to justify the lockdown ? As I said in my post commonsense..
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I think that too much is expected from them regarding figures , it's an awful situation for everyone who is dealing with any of it government key ,workers etc it will make absolutely no difference dwelling on what is on death certificates, what is needed is plain old commonsense and people pulling together to get through the present situation & hopefully finding a vaccine to combat this virus, which unfortunately I think is some time away.
Disagree. We need to know why Covid-19 is being listed as the cause of death when it wasn't. Why is this happening? ???
Simply because it's easier for officials? or is it an instruction from the top to boost death figures so they can justify the lock down? ???
Ask Rods, he'll know. ;D
Rods has disappeared! :-X :(
No, he hasn't. His latest uplifting post was earlier today.
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I think that too much is expected from them regarding figures , it's an awful situation for everyone who is dealing with any of it government key ,workers etc it will make absolutely no difference dwelling on what is on death certificates, what is needed is plain old commonsense and people pulling together to get through the present situation & hopefully finding a vaccine to combat this virus, which unfortunately I think is some time away.
Disagree. We need to know why Covid-19 is being listed as the cause of death when it wasn't. Why is this happening? ???
Simply because it's easier for officials? or is it an instruction from the top to boost death figures so they can justify the lock down? ???
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Why would they need to justify the lockdown ? As I said in my post commonsense..
Exactly, most people under 35, and some well over it don't have any. Ergo everyone is best shut indoors...
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There are some excellent investigative reporters working for our free press. The government can't just tell them to mind their own business these days, nor can they be disappeared. If something as big as this was happening up and down the country, I reckon someone would have got wind of it. Rods would have been crying foul about ten days ago, as he gleaned the information from an obscure preppers website.
As always, it will all come out in the wash and, if skullduggery is afoot, heads will roll. But for now, do as you are told by your government.
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There are some excellent investigative reporters working for our free press. The government can't just tell them to mind their own business these days, nor can they be disappeared. If something as big as this was happening up and down the country, I reckon someone would have got wind of it. Rods would have been crying foul about ten days ago, as he gleaned the information from an obscure preppers website.
As always, it will all come out in the wash and, if skullduggery is afoot, heads will roll. But for now, do as you are told by your government.
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Exactly right Stemo, but as you and I know from experience too many folk nowadays think rules, even simple ones don't apply to them.
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Seen this on Twitter
just because something is on the internet, doesn't mean it's true
if your admitted to hospital, I imagine you get tested ,even if asymptomatic
and you don't need to be barking like a dog to die of covid 19 ,it can attack your organs thicken your blood causing stroke etc
so what about deaths from stroke etc where a test is not done but caused by covid 19 and recorded as stroke :-\
as for the figures , they have said there is an unusual number of deaths "other than covid 19"
obviously there will be overworked staff or lazy staff who will just put covid 19
But ultimately ,thousands of people are dead ,and we have to trust the figures given,
because surely a government wouldn't manipulate the figures
the lock down is to stop it spreading ,
Because the powers that be acted too late, then gave up on track n trace and testing and quarantine
doesn't matter how old or young you are,you can spread it
so you can't just lock down certain age groups
now the curve is slowing and everyone is broke , it's back to track n trace and testing and quarantine
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If you just want figures, week on week of deaths v average deaths over last 5 years, just look here. (Weekly figures 2020 tab, top few lines)
https://www.ons.gov.uk/file?uri=%2fpeoplepopulationandcommunity%2fbirthsdeathsandmarriages%2fdeaths%2fdatasets%2fweeklyprovisionalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales%2f2020/publishedweek1620201.xlsx
You'll see last week an extra 12000 died than you'd expect, week before 8000 etc etc
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If you just want figures, week on week of deaths v average deaths over last 5 years, just look here. (Weekly figures 2020 tab, top few lines)
https://www.ons.gov.uk/file?uri=%2fpeoplepopulationandcommunity%2fbirthsdeathsandmarriages%2fdeaths%2fdatasets%2fweeklyprovisionalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales%2f2020/publishedweek1620201.xlsx
You'll see last week an extra 12000 died than you'd expect, week before 8000 etc etc
I've heard said a lot of those deaths are because people are not getting help when I'll. I know I wouldn't go near a hospital at the moment. A lot of cancer patients have been virtually ignored over the period, too. Nevertheless, those figures are very high. We will see.
Maybe the government are killing oldies to save on pension payments. Yeah, that'll be it. Best put my tin hat on when I go to Asda. ;D
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Seen this on Twitter
just because something is on the internet, doesn't mean it's true
if your admitted to hospital, I imagine you get tested ,even if asymptomatic
and you don't need to be barking like a dog to die of covid 19 ,it can attack your organs thicken your blood causing stroke etc
so what about deaths from stroke etc where a test is not done but caused by covid 19 and recorded as stroke :-\
as for the figures , they have said there is an unusual number of deaths "other than covid 19"
obviously there will be overworked staff or lazy staff who will just put covid 19
But ultimately ,thousands of people are dead ,and we have to trust the figures given,
because surely a government wouldn't manipulate the figures
the lock down is to stop it spreading ,
Because the powers that be acted too late, then gave up on track n trace and testing and quarantine
doesn't matter how old or young you are,you can spread it
so you can't just lock down certain age groups
now the curve is slowing and everyone is broke , it's back to track n trace and testing and quarantine
Not a new concept. Dad officially died from lung failure in 2016, the reality was his lungs were riddled with un diagnosed cancer, masked by a chest infection and pneumonia. Three months before he died, he spent three weeks in Aberdeen hospital under the care of a specialist, who failed to see what was going on, so dosed him up with antibiotics. Fast forward three months, and he collapsed unable to breathe, was flown back to Aberdeen where he died the following day.
Had he gone to the doctor when he first started coughing fits seven months earlier, he might have still been here.
Two lessons :
1. Go to the quack, even if it's just in case.
2. The ultimate cause of death isn't necessarily what goes on the certificate.
If you're beheaded falling off a motor bike and going through a fence, was your death caused by decapitation or from riding motorbikes? The cause and result aren't always the same thing ;)
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I think that too much is expected from them regarding figures , it's an awful situation for everyone who is dealing with any of it government key ,workers etc it will make absolutely no difference dwelling on what is on death certificates, what is needed is plain old commonsense and people pulling together to get through the present situation & hopefully finding a vaccine to combat this virus, which unfortunately I think is some time away.
Disagree. We need to know why Covid-19 is being listed as the cause of death when it wasn't. Why is this happening? ???
Simply because it's easier for officials? or is it an instruction from the top to boost death figures so they can justify the lock down? ???
Ask Rods, he'll know. ;D
Rods has disappeared! :-X :(
No, he hasn't. His latest uplifting post was earlier today.
Ah didn't spot that! :y
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I think that too much is expected from them regarding figures , it's an awful situation for everyone who is dealing with any of it government key ,workers etc it will make absolutely no difference dwelling on what is on death certificates, what is needed is plain old commonsense and people pulling together to get through the present situation & hopefully finding a vaccine to combat this virus, which unfortunately I think is some time away.
Disagree. We need to know why Covid-19 is being listed as the cause of death when it wasn't. Why is this happening? ???
Simply because it's easier for officials? or is it an instruction from the top to boost death figures so they can justify the lock down? ???
I think the figures are bogus. Some people have died solely of Covid 19 but with many others it was simply an additional health problem that sent them into the next life.
For example .......an 80 year old with heart, liver, and and other health problems including cancer dies of Covid 19. Hmmm....really.
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I think the figures are bogus. Some people have died solely of Covid 19 but with many others it was simply an additional health problem that sent them into the next life.
For example .......an 80 year old with heart, liver, and and other health problems including cancer dies of Covid 19. Hmmm....really.
which is why the extra deaths to the norm figure is interesting
dare say a few suicides due to finances, a few people too scared to go to hospital in case they catch it,
pensioners not eating well and giving up etc etc all because of the Chinese virus ,
BUT, it won't say covid 19 on the death certificate
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I think that too much is expected from them regarding figures , it's an awful situation for everyone who is dealing with any of it government key ,workers etc it will make absolutely no difference dwelling on what is on death certificates, what is needed is plain old commonsense and people pulling together to get through the present situation & hopefully finding a vaccine to combat this virus, which unfortunately I think is some time away.
Disagree. We need to know why Covid-19 is being listed as the cause of death when it wasn't. Why is this happening? ???
Simply because it's easier for officials? or is it an instruction from the top to boost death figures so they can justify the lock down? ???
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Why would they need to justify the lockdown ? As I said in my post commonsense..
Er... Because the the side effect of the lockdown has been economic devastation. Ten's of thousands, if not hundred's of thousands of small business's will disappear along with people's lively hoods. Big companies will fail throwing hundreds of thousands if not millions out of work. Now if the lockdown was necessary and hundred's of thousands, maybe millions of lives have been saved then it's worth it. :y
But what if the lockdown has made little difference? Sweden seems to be doing OK and they expect Stockholm to achieve herd immunity soon. :)
The other thing about recording the cause of death, surely it's even more important at this time for death certificates to be accurate, so they can properly plan our way out of this mess? ??? ;)
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Nor should it...
Underlying health issues aren't necessarily physical.
And of those committing suicide, what's to say that they wouldn't have anyway. Sooner or later. :-\
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From the other thread, but probably more relevant here...
New Yoik city is a festering pool. Always has been, much like Lundun.
The city has approximately 310,000 cases and 19,000 deaths. And is almost worth sticking on its own graph.
Our deaths are a slightly higher ratio, but as people were generally only being tested on admission, we could have ten times as many people infected, which reduces the death ratio somewhat.
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Trump is now firmly stating that he “has proof” that the virus was developed in a Chinese laboratory.
The after affects of the virus will therefore be a dangerous time in many others ways other than Covid19 itself! Watch out for first trade wars....tariff ‘penalties’..........financial retribution.........then........ :o :o :o
We've had all of those, except the :o :o :o
What do dictators do when the population start getting uppity? They invent a common enemy and hope to whip up a wave of patriotism. This is an election year for Trump, and those naughty Chinese make a perfect common enemy. Esp as he can make stuff up and there's no way of disproving it.
Bit like religion, Lizzie ;D
I can not argue with any of that Steve when it comes to Crazy Trump ;D ;D ;D :y
Even many within the USA are disputing that China did anything like inventing/creating the virus ;)
Propaganda is always the enemy of the truth :(
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I think that too much is expected from them regarding figures , it's an awful situation for everyone who is dealing with any of it government key ,workers etc it will make absolutely no difference dwelling on what is on death certificates, what is needed is plain old commonsense and people pulling together to get through the present situation & hopefully finding a vaccine to combat this virus, which unfortunately I think is some time away.
Disagree. We need to know why Covid-19 is being listed as the cause of death when it wasn't. Why is this happening? ???
Simply because it's easier for officials? or is it an instruction from the top to boost death figures so they can justify the lock down? ???
.
Why would they need to justify the lockdown ? As I said in my post commonsense..
Exactly. Why would our Government want to inflate the Covid 19 death figures when they are,and will be in the endless future, be judged on their performance in handling this pandemic that has affected most of the World? ::) ::)
Don't see it myself ;)
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I think that too much is expected from them regarding figures , it's an awful situation for everyone who is dealing with any of it government key ,workers etc it will make absolutely no difference dwelling on what is on death certificates, what is needed is plain old commonsense and people pulling together to get through the present situation & hopefully finding a vaccine to combat this virus, which unfortunately I think is some time away.
Disagree. We need to know why Covid-19 is being listed as the cause of death when it wasn't. Why is this happening? ???
Simply because it's easier for officials? or is it an instruction from the top to boost death figures so they can justify the lock down? ???
.
Why would they need to justify the lockdown ? As I said in my post commonsense..
Exactly. Why would our Government want to inflate the Covid 19 death figures when they are,and will be in the endless future, be judged on their performance in handling this pandemic that has affected most of the World? ::) ::)
Don't see it myself ;)
It's a good question, but if they are, why? ??? The only thing that I can think of is the lockdown hasn't made much difference, so they inflate death figures to justify the economic carnage! ::)
It's important that people query and question, rather than complacently doing as they're told, and that's what living in a democracy is all about! :y
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I think that too much is expected from them regarding figures , it's an awful situation for everyone who is dealing with any of it government key ,workers etc it will make absolutely no difference dwelling on what is on death certificates, what is needed is plain old commonsense and people pulling together to get through the present situation & hopefully finding a vaccine to combat this virus, which unfortunately I think is some time away.
Disagree. We need to know why Covid-19 is being listed as the cause of death when it wasn't. Why is this happening? ???
Simply because it's easier for officials? or is it an instruction from the top to boost death figures so they can justify the lock down? ???
.
Why would they need to justify the lockdown ? As I said in my post commonsense..
Exactly. Why would our Government want to inflate the Covid 19 death figures when they are,and will be in the endless future, be judged on their performance in handling this pandemic that has affected most of the World? ::) ::)
Don't see it myself ;)
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No neither do I Lizzie, people criticise & comment whatever decision is made these are ordinary human beings dealing with an "invisible enemy" yes people will lose jobs businesses will cease trading in the end all of us will be affected one way or another, regarding the lockdown it's sensible in my opinion but if anyone wants to ignore it it's their decision ultimately it depends how much you value life, yours & others.
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I think that too much is expected from them regarding figures , it's an awful situation for everyone who is dealing with any of it government key ,workers etc it will make absolutely no difference dwelling on what is on death certificates, what is needed is plain old commonsense and people pulling together to get through the present situation & hopefully finding a vaccine to combat this virus, which unfortunately I think is some time away.
Disagree. We need to know why Covid-19 is being listed as the cause of death when it wasn't. Why is this happening? ???
Simply because it's easier for officials? or is it an instruction from the top to boost death figures so they can justify the lock down? ???
.
Why would they need to justify the lockdown ? As I said in my post commonsense..
Exactly. Why would our Government want to inflate the Covid 19 death figures when they are,and will be in the endless future, be judged on their performance in handling this pandemic that has affected most of the World? ::) ::)
Don't see it myself ;)
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No neither do I Lizzie, people criticise & comment whatever decision is made these are ordinary human beings dealing with an "invisible enemy" yes people will lose jobs businesses will cease trading in the end all of us will be affected one way or another, regarding the lockdown it's sensible in my opinion but if anyone wants to ignore it it's their decision ultimately it depends how much you value life, yours & others.
I'm not saying people should ignore the lockdown.... ::)
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The question isn't a democratic one per se, but lock down and its impact has raised some interesting issues across the board, not least how much we take for granted in terms of civil liberties and 'normal' way of life.
It's easy to get pissed off with the disruption, but the reality is that globally we weren't ready for such an event, either on a national or personal level.
I think that this is perhaps the point the stripey, bouncy cider drinker was making...
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The question isn't a democratic one per se, but lock down and its impact has raised some interesting issues across the board, not least how much we take for granted in terms of civil liberties and 'normal' way of life.
It's easy to get pissed off with the disruption, but the reality is that globally we weren't ready for such an event, either on a national or personal level.
I think that this is perhaps the point the stripey, bouncy cider drinker was making...
;D
Nope. My query was simply about whether the figures are reliable or not, as I'd seen suggestions that people's cause of death on their DC was Covid-19 when it wasn't, and they hadn't even been tested for it! :)
And if this is true, why is this happening? Is it wide spread? A few isolated cases? ???
Simple really. ::)
Someone said the other day (maybe here :-\), that if you drop down dead with a heart attack and cough on the way down, they'll put you down as a corona virus death. ::)
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Well there's that ;D
If you dropped from a heart attack, then that would be the correct cause of death. What caused you to have a heart attack would be secondary if there were a reason to investigate it such as being otherwise young, fit, healthy etc ;)
Batflu deaths would/should be recorded as such if you turned up with nowt else wrong with you expect Batflu and succumbed to it after a brief holiday in hospital...
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Well there's that ;D
If you dropped from a heart attack, then that would be the correct cause of death. What caused you to have a heart attack would be secondary if there were a reason to investigate it such as being otherwise young, fit, healthy etc ;)
Batflu deaths would/should be recorded as such if you turned up with nowt else wrong with you expect Batflu and succumbed to it after a brief holiday in hospital...
people tend to die from lack of oxygen to the brain
so that should be on all death certificates then :P
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That is the result of the body not supplying oxygen etc via the blood stream, the cause of the non supply is what's what ;)
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That is the result of the body not supplying oxygen etc via the blood stream, the cause of the non supply is what's what ;)
chicken :-\ egg :-\ ;D
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I think that too much is expected from them regarding figures , it's an awful situation for everyone who is dealing with any of it government key ,workers etc it will make absolutely no difference dwelling on what is on death certificates, what is needed is plain old commonsense and people pulling together to get through the present situation & hopefully finding a vaccine to combat this virus, which unfortunately I think is some time away.
Disagree. We need to know why Covid-19 is being listed as the cause of death when it wasn't. Why is this happening? ???
Simply because it's easier for officials? or is it an instruction from the top to boost death figures so they can justify the lock down? ???
.
Why would they need to justify the lockdown ? As I said in my post commonsense..
Exactly. Why would our Government want to inflate the Covid 19 death figures when they are,and will be in the endless future, be judged on their performance in handling this pandemic that has affected most of the World? ::) ::)
Don't see it myself ;)
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No neither do I Lizzie, people criticise & comment whatever decision is made these are ordinary human beings dealing with an "invisible enemy" yes people will lose jobs businesses will cease trading in the end all of us will be affected one way or another, regarding the lockdown it's sensible in my opinion but if anyone wants to ignore it it's their decision ultimately it depends how much you value life, yours & others.
Agreed :y :y
It is very easy for those without responsibility for a nation to be wise after the event and sound as though they know how the leaders should act and what they should do, along with when. Of course, those without responsibilities can just walk away from their vocals and not take on any sense of consequence.
Anyone of us who has been responsible to shareholders and a board of directors for a mult-million pound business employing 1,000’s of staff knows how that feels when it comes to making decisions that will affect everything you have under your control, including people’s livelihoods. We can just imagine what it is like to be responsible for a nation under threat from an enemy that cannot be seen; at least the likes of Churchill could see the enemy!
But no, you will always get the armchair critics who think they know it all, spout off all kinds of ‘solutions’, but can then forget it all as they go to bed, which I certainly could never do, let alone our PM being able to do that with all he has on his plate! :o :o
:)
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I think that too much is expected from them regarding figures , it's an awful situation for everyone who is dealing with any of it government key ,workers etc it will make absolutely no difference dwelling on what is on death certificates, what is needed is plain old commonsense and people pulling together to get through the present situation & hopefully finding a vaccine to combat this virus, which unfortunately I think is some time away.
Disagree. We need to know why Covid-19 is being listed as the cause of death when it wasn't. Why is this happening? ???
Simply because it's easier for officials? or is it an instruction from the top to boost death figures so they can justify the lock down? ???
.
Why would they need to justify the lockdown ? As I said in my post commonsense..
Exactly. Why would our Government want to inflate the Covid 19 death figures when they are,and will be in the endless future, be judged on their performance in handling this pandemic that has affected most of the World? ::) ::)
Don't see it myself ;)
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No neither do I Lizzie, people criticise & comment whatever decision is made these are ordinary human beings dealing with an "invisible enemy" yes people will lose jobs businesses will cease trading in the end all of us will be affected one way or another, regarding the lockdown it's sensible in my opinion but if anyone wants to ignore it it's their decision ultimately it depends how much you value life, yours & others.
Agreed :y :y
It is very easy for those without responsibility for a nation to be wise after the event and sound as though they know how the leaders should act and what they should do, along with when. Of course, those without responsibilities can just walk away from their vocals and not take on any sense of consequence.
Anyone of us who has been responsible to shareholders and a board of directors for a mult-million pound business employing 1,000’s of staff knows how that feels when it comes to making decisions that will affect everything you have under your control, including people’s livelihoods. We can just imagine what it is like to be responsible for a nation under threat from an enemy that cannot be seen; at least the likes of Churchill could see the enemy!
But no, you will always get the armchair critics who think they know it all, spout off all kinds of ‘solutions’, but can then forget it all as they go to bed, which I certainly could never do, let alone our PM being able to do that with all he has on his plate! :o :o
:)
You mean the so called "opposition" and "main stream media" ??? Who ALWAYS know afterwards exactly what "should" have been done .... ??
2 months ago - testing not needed ... 1 month ago - 100,000 tests a day - impossible...... today - figures must be lies ...
the truth .. it matters not as long as they are mashing their gums ....
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forget about fake figures, what should be happening is identifying why people are still contracting the virus given we are all in lockdown, are new cases from people working or people in lockdown. The figures are coming down certainly in terms of number of deaths and beginning to flatten out, but the number of cases is not and they are not flattening out yet, despite the fancy graphs you see on BBC news and elsewhere.
The number of deaths reported by BBC on 26/04/20 was 21,092 on the following day it was reported at 25,402, something amiss there 20% increase, when the average from the week before was 4% to 2% by end of the week. Yes I have been tracking the figures on a daily basis since the outbreak and those in my local area, and have my own fancy graphs - LOL!!!
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I think that too much is expected from them regarding figures , it's an awful situation for everyone who is dealing with any of it government key ,workers etc it will make absolutely no difference dwelling on what is on death certificates, what is needed is plain old commonsense and people pulling together to get through the present situation & hopefully finding a vaccine to combat this virus, which unfortunately I think is some time away.
Disagree. We need to know why Covid-19 is being listed as the cause of death when it wasn't. Why is this happening? ???
Simply because it's easier for officials? or is it an instruction from the top to boost death figures so they can justify the lock down? ???
.
Why would they need to justify the lockdown ? As I said in my post commonsense..
Exactly. Why would our Government want to inflate the Covid 19 death figures when they are,and will be in the endless future, be judged on their performance in handling this pandemic that has affected most of the World? ::) ::)
Don't see it myself ;)
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No neither do I Lizzie, people criticise & comment whatever decision is made these are ordinary human beings dealing with an "invisible enemy" yes people will lose jobs businesses will cease trading in the end all of us will be affected one way or another, regarding the lockdown it's sensible in my opinion but if anyone wants to ignore it it's their decision ultimately it depends how much you value life, yours & others.
Agreed :y :y
It is very easy for those without responsibility for a nation to be wise after the event and sound as though they know how the leaders should act and what they should do, along with when. Of course, those without responsibilities can just walk away from their vocals and not take on any sense of consequence.
Anyone of us who has been responsible to shareholders and a board of directors for a mult-million pound business employing 1,000’s of staff knows how that feels when it comes to making decisions that will affect everything you have under your control, including people’s livelihoods. We can just imagine what it is like to be responsible for a nation under threat from an enemy that cannot be seen; at least the likes of Churchill could see the enemy!
But no, you will always get the armchair critics who think they know it all, spout off all kinds of ‘solutions’, but can then forget it all as they go to bed, which I certainly could never do, let alone our PM being able to do that with all he has on his plate! :o :o
:)
You mean the so called "opposition" and "main stream media" ??? Who ALWAYS know afterwards exactly what "should" have been done .... ??
2 months ago - testing not needed ... 1 month ago - 100,000 tests a day - impossible...... today - figures must be lies ...
the truth .. it matters not as long as they are mashing their gums ....
Yes, and selling newsprint / media space or whatever it is in these modern times!! ::) ::) ;)
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forget about fake figures, what should be happening is identifying why people are still contracting the virus given we are all in lockdown, are new cases from people working or people in lockdown. The figures are coming down certainly in terms of number of deaths and beginning to flatten out, but the number of cases is not and they are not flattening out yet, despite the fancy graphs you see on BBC news and elsewhere.
The number of deaths reported by BBC on 26/04/20 was 21,092 on the following day it was reported at 25,402, something amiss there 20% increase, when the average from the week before was 4% to 2% by end of the week. Yes I have been tracking the figures on a daily basis since the outbreak and those in my local area, and have my own fancy graphs - LOL!!!
I think Mike you will find that was down to an adjustment being made for care home and community Covid deaths, in addition to hospital fatalities. The figures are therefore, hopefully, NEARER the truthful situation. ;)
As for deaths despite the lockdown; that, in my mind, is more down to people still at 'essential' work and, more importantly, the stupid amoungst us who think the non-household mixing rules along with social distancing do not apply to them. I still see it everyday! >:( >:(
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The number of deaths reported by BBC on 26/04/20 was 21,092 on the following day it was reported at 25,402, something amiss there 20% increase, when the average from the week before was 4% to 2% by end of the week. Yes I have been tracking the figures on a daily basis since the outbreak and those in my local area, and have my own fancy graphs - LOL!!!
27/04 was a Monday. I understand that A number of hospitals don't register all deaths over the weekend, or don't report c-19 numbers etc. Whatever, if you look back there are consistent peaks and troughs around weekends.
A better graph to look at would be a 7-day rolling average graph such as the one below as it reduces the impact of these reporting delays on the final data set.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?time=2020-03-26.. (https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?time=2020-03-26..)
Edit: I wasn't aware of the care home adjustment, :y
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The figures spike on a Tuesday owing to weekend deaths not being fully recorded until later on Monday. Also there's a lag from non hospital deaths. This is significantly improved over the beginning of April, but nevertheless could be as much as a week due to the way these are processed... If you die in hospital, you're certified there and then, and worst case, the paperwork will be filed 9-4 the next day. Die elsewhere, and you might not be found until a day or so after the event (being in care doesn't mean in a facility, having a carer visit every other day at your own home probably counts), so you aren't automatically certified... Doctor and police potentially involved with a less direct paperwork process, slowed by the fact that the focus is on hospital deaths. Which is understandable as most who have died from Batflu have been ill enough to require hospitalisation in the first place.
Staff who have caught it and succumbed in the course of their duties should also be treated as work related deaths which would also involve the HSE, so further bureaucracy possible.
Also worth noting that the care homes are largely privately run, and could be argued that they are responsible for managing their own supplies of PPE etc and that simply boils down to poor management/leadership from head offices rather than being the government's responsibility/fault.
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Also worth noting that the care homes are largely privately run, and could be argued that they are responsible for managing their own supplies of PPE etc and that simply boils down to poor management/leadership from head offices rather than being the government's responsibility/fault.
I think this is a good point especially when you consider the fees that care homes charge! :-X Fair enough asking the government for assistance in a national crisis, but is it the governments fault? ???
The same goes for the NHS, as I've been wondering what the highly paid senior management were doing back in February? ::) Not preparing their hospitals for a possible epidemic that was already spreading fast in other countries that's for sure! ::) :-X
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forget about fake figures, what should be happening is identifying why people are still contracting the virus given we are all in lockdown, are new cases from people working or people in lockdown. The figures are coming down certainly in terms of number of deaths and beginning to flatten out, but the number of cases is not and they are not flattening out yet, despite the fancy graphs you see on BBC news and elsewhere.
The number of deaths reported by BBC on 26/04/20 was 21,092 on the following day it was reported at 25,402, something amiss there 20% increase, when the average from the week before was 4% to 2% by end of the week. Yes I have been tracking the figures on a daily basis since the outbreak and those in my local area, and have my own fancy graphs - LOL!!!
I think Mike you will find that was down to an adjustment being made for care home and community Covid deaths, in addition to hospital fatalities. The figures are therefore, hopefully, NEARER the truthful situation. ;)
As for deaths despite the lockdown; that, in my mind, is more down to people still at 'essential' work and, more importantly, the stupid amoungst us who think the non-household mixing rules along with social distancing do not apply to them. I still see it everyday! >:( >:(
Yes social distancing, had that this morning in Tesco metro, bloke less than a metre from me, told him to stand back on the 2 metre mark, he said you serious, i said of course not joking, ****** idiot!!!
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Just got back from Asda. 45 mins in a very well behaved, social distancing queue. Once we got inside, however............... ::)
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Neither wifey or I have been in a supermarket since the 15th March everything on home delivery now only go out to walk the dog , drive once a week to deliver bread & meat to our old elderly neighbour at our old house , when out walking everyone we have met adheres to the social distancing , would not even walk into the town centre as too many idiots there ( have seen pictures online) Miss seeing the Grandsons but speak online , a bit of inconvenience maybe but it's better then what happened to the other 27,000 (approximately) 😀
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I believe the people of the arsebook generation have christened them 'covidiots'.
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All the more reason to make masks mandatory in public places such as shops ,public transport etc
it won't protect the wearer much ,but could protect others
downside being it's hard to identify criminals and law breakers :(
as for track and trace apps , how many people don't own smart phones :-\
and the UK still has massive gaps in signal coverage(to send the pings in packets to the servers) ,
going everywhere with bluetooth enabled is a security risk .
looking at the number of cars about and people everywhere , I think many have decided lockdown has ended :(
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looking at the number of cars about and people everywhere , I think many have decided lockdown has ended :(
Cast your mind back a month or so ago when everyone was clamouring to be locked down. The government kept saying it was all about getting the timing right and that people would get 'lock down fatigue' and start going out precisely when we needed people to stay in. ::)
No no no they said, We know best they said, and look what's happening now? Non essential businesses like B&Q reopening and generally people starting to go out and about again, yet the lockdown is supposed to last until next week at least! ::)
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I expect roads round shops and retail parks to be busy
but i've been using the A38 and M42 to drop off shopping to relatives
previously lots of lorries and vans , hardly any cars
that has changed ,now lots of cars too
maybe it's added too by end of the month/people got paid situation :-\
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And no police.
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And no police.
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That's about right, so you make your own choice go out & about and behave like a complete idiot or follow advice and perhaps live so simple but plenty of dumb arseholes just don't get it.
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And no police.
Police where massively overstretched long before Chinese Virus
A £30 fine IF they prove you are breaching lockdown terms is hardly a deterrent :(
I saw a news item saying 200,000 people grassed on others breaching lock down ::)
won't be long before the government start letting groups out officially ,experimenting with lives :o
maybe the phone APP should include an ebay style feedback system ,which lepers to avoid ;D
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Just been watching a news item on Spain's slight release from lockdown.
Everyone has gone mad and can be seen en mass with no regard to social distancing A Spanish guy said it was crazy, and he was seeing people from where he lived who he had never seen before freely mixing.
Another Spaniard said in just a few weeks time, after no doubt a big spread of the virus, they would again be in complete lockdown.
All this is exactly what our Government fears by releasing the lockdown brakes too quickly :( :(
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Governments can only do so much. It's down to individuals to think for themselves with regards to personal safety. I see this morning, in the news, the two metre rule was being scaled back. Some people (don't know if they're medicos or politicians) have said one metre could be sufficient, and they'd been a bit cautious with two metres. Bollicks, I'll go out and mix when I feel safe, not when some rich politician who's business is suffering decides it's safe.
If they try to rush schools back, my missus is adamant that she will not ask her staff to return to work until she's absolutely sure it's safe. People may think I'm odd (quiet, Opti) going shopping in my gloves in November, but I don't care. When the death rate is zero, I'll consider taking them off.
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You in a different time zone Stemo?? It's only May here we've not got as far as November yet :D
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Governments can only do so much. It's down to individuals to think for themselves with regards to personal safety. I see this morning, in the news, the two metre rule was being scaled back. Some people (don't know if they're medicos or politicians) have said one metre could be sufficient, and they'd been a bit cautious with two metres. Bollicks, I'll go out and mix when I feel safe, not when some rich politician who's business is suffering decides it's safe.
If they try to rush schools back, my missus is adamant that she will not ask her staff to return to work until she's absolutely sure it's safe. People may think I'm odd (quiet, Opti) going shopping in my gloves in November, but I don't care. When the death rate is zero, I'll consider taking them off.
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Not odd just wise , must be something to do with our age methinks..
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Governments can only do so much. It's down to individuals to think for themselves with regards to personal safety. I see this morning, in the news, the two metre rule was being scaled back. Some people (don't know if they're medicos or politicians) have said one metre could be sufficient, and they'd been a bit cautious with two metres. Bollicks, I'll go out and mix when I feel safe, not when some rich politician who's business is suffering decides it's safe.
If they try to rush schools back, my missus is adamant that she will not ask her staff to return to work until she's absolutely sure it's safe. People may think I'm odd (quiet, Opti) going shopping in my gloves in November, but I don't care. When the death rate is zero, I'll consider taking them off.
That is all very sensible, responsible, and it is a pity we have fools at every level of society who think they know best and disagree with all that! >:( >:(
I watched a piece of research that showed anyone who coughed put an invisible cloud of 'moisture' from their mouth and nostrils as much as 26 feet away! So in short, someone coughing and not guarding their mouth with a hand or mask, spread their infection into the next isle, and more, of supermarkets.
So the 2 metre rule must be considered the minimum we should keep away from other people. :)
As for the gloves, I am wearing latex ones whenever I go out, changing them frequently. :)
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I don't understand the controversy about masks. :-\
I'd have thought any sort of face covering like a scarf or dust mask would be better than nothing. ???
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You in a different time zone Stemo?? It's only May here we've not got as far as November yet :D
No, Baza, if people are still dying in November, I'll still be taking precautions in November.
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And no police.
I drive the 18 miles to my Mums to set her up for the day, empty bin, make sure her food for the day is at hand etc. My brother, 83, does the other days as he lives just a few hundred yards from her. Yesterday was the first time that i had seen a police car during my drives since the restrictions came in. The joys of living in the country i suppose. :-\
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I don't understand the obsession with letting kids go back to school 'because they are less susceptible to the symptoms'.
The wee snotty bastids are perfectly capable of spreading disease willy nilly. If one turns up carrying it, then anyone who happens to bump into it is likely to catch it and take it home... That's easily two hundred households infected without even trying... Makes no sense to me.
As for out and about, I need to get my Bro and his car in the same place so that he can have it back. It's been scrubbed in and out, and I haven't so much as sat in it since, so that bit is fine. But the choice is either I go and collect him, or he tries to use public transport to get here to collect it.
It's far from ideal, but the thought is that two people in a car are a much lower risk than three train journeys. :-\
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I don't understand the obsession with letting kids go back to school 'because they are less susceptible to the symptoms'.
The wee snotty bastids are perfectly capable of spreading disease willy nilly. If one turns up carrying it, then anyone who happens to bump into it is likely to catch it and take it home... That's easily two hundred households infected without even trying... Makes no sense to me.
As for out and about, I need to get my Bro and his car in the same place so that he can have it back. It's been scrubbed in and out, and I haven't so much as sat in it since, so that bit is fine. But the choice is either I go and collect him, or he tries to use public transport to get here to collect it.
It's far from ideal, but the thought is that two people in a car are a much lower risk than three train journeys. :-\
I agree ,
kids will spread it like wldfire and take it home ,pass it on to the parents who have now returned to work,some of which will need to use public transport to do so :o
and why use kids as an experiment ,the kids are the future
we still don't know enough about covid 19 to take chances ,i've said this all along .
let them do more small scale tests etc and gather more information before ending lockdown
and make wearing masks mandatory in public places
as for getting the beemer back to your bro., put clean clothes on,put a mask or face cover on ,wash hands, drive it to him, antiseptic wipes and hand sanitizer , fan on fresh air,not recirc ;D windows cracked open at the back,wipe all controls,wheel,knob etc etc
if your brother observes the same safe procedure to drive you back then i don't see how any Chinese virus would live .
just don't French kiss your brother goodbye ;D
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I don't understand the obsession with letting kids go back to school 'because they are less susceptible to the symptoms'.
The wee snotty bastids are perfectly capable of spreading disease willy nilly. If one turns up carrying it, then anyone who happens to bump into it is likely to catch it and take it home... That's easily two hundred households infected without even trying... Makes no sense to me.
As for out and about, I need to get my Bro and his car in the same place so that he can have it back. It's been scrubbed in and out, and I haven't so much as sat in it since, so that bit is fine. But the choice is either I go and collect him, or he tries to use public transport to get here to collect it.
It's far from ideal, but the thought is that two people in a car are a much lower risk than three train journeys. :-\
I agree ,
kids will spread it like wldfire and take it home ,pass it on to the parents who have now returned to work,some of which will need to use public transport to do so :o
and why use kids and teachers as an experiment ,the kids are the future
we still don't know enough about covid 19 to take chances ,i've said this all along .
let them do more small scale tests etc and gather more information before ending lockdown
and make wearing masks mandatory in public places
as for getting the beemer back to your bro., put clean clothes on,put a mask or face cover on ,wash hands, drive it to him, antiseptic wipes and hand sanitizer , fan on fresh air,not recirc ;D windows cracked open at the back,wipe all controls,wheel,knob etc etc
if your brother observes the same safe procedure to drive you back then i don't see how any Chinese virus would live .
just don't French kiss your brother goodbye ;D
Fixed
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I don't understand the obsession with letting kids go back to school 'because they are less susceptible to the symptoms'.
The wee snotty bastids are perfectly capable of spreading disease willy nilly. If one turns up carrying it, then anyone who happens to bump into it is likely to catch it and take it home... That's easily two hundred households infected without even trying... Makes no sense to me.
As for out and about, I need to get my Bro and his car in the same place so that he can have it back. It's been scrubbed in and out, and I haven't so much as sat in it since, so that bit is fine. But the choice is either I go and collect him, or he tries to use public transport to get here to collect it.
It's far from ideal, but the thought is that two people in a car are a much lower risk than three train journeys. :-\
I agree ,
kids will spread it like wldfire and take it home ,pass it on to the parents who have now returned to work,some of which will need to use public transport to do so :o
and why use kids and teachers as an experiment ,the kids are the future
we still don't know enough about covid 19 to take chances ,i've said this all along .
let them do more small scale tests etc and gather more information before ending lockdown
and make wearing masks mandatory in public places
as for getting the beemer back to your bro., put clean clothes on,put a mask or face cover on ,wash hands, drive it to him, antiseptic wipes and hand sanitizer , fan on fresh air,not recirc ;D windows cracked open at the back,wipe all controls,wheel,knob etc etc
if your brother observes the same safe procedure to drive you back then i don't see how any Chinese virus would live .
just don't French kiss your brother goodbye ;D
Fixed
Surely no teacher would go back anyway without full PPE Uncle Stemo ?
what's happening with that ?
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What a lovely image. Little Cynthia is crying in the corner, tears rolling down her rosy red cheeks. Little Jonny has kicked her in the c**t, again. She wants reassurance from teacher, but she has to stay two metres away and is wearing a mask like you see on telly where people have died, and is so stressed all she can say is "Home.......I have to get home" in a deranged, robotic voice. Cynthia thinks teacher is crying too, but she can't be sure. The goggles are all wet and misted up. ;D
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So they aren't issuing the teachers with Tasers then :-\
air fed masks , hazmat stab vest suit ::)
i'll throw away my application form then ;D
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Has anyone else noticed that the figures for number of deaths, newly available critical care beds and people no longer in hospital are all broadly the same... ::)
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Has anyone else noticed that the figures for number of deaths, newly available critical care beds and people no longer in hospital are all broadly the same... ::)
No. I've stopped taking notice. :-X
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Has anyone else noticed that the figures for number of deaths, newly available critical care beds and people no longer in hospital are all broadly the same... ::)
Basic stock rotation ,you don't want stuff on the shelves too long
if it don't sell in a timely manor , bin it and get new stock in
:o did I just type that :-[ ;D
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Has anyone else noticed that the figures for number of deaths, newly available critical care beds and people no longer in hospital are all broadly the same... ::)
Basic stock rotation ,you don't want stuff on the shelves too long
if it don't sell in a timely manor , bin it and get new stock in
:o did I just type that :-[ ;D
Apparently so ;D