Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: polilara on 12 August 2020, 06:29:21
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Still have my Omega but daughter's Astra needs perhaps something now. 77 000 km behind and 10 years, outer and timing belt not yet changed. Heard that when changing outer belt you have to release the tensioner by taking the right inner wing away etc. Is it so? Any tips. Perhaps time to do timing belt, too? Is it normal job (done V6 several times so basically I can do it but never touched 1.6). What is timing belt change interval? How about water pump?.
Thanks in advance...
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Dave the builder, will be along shortly, seems to do more work on Astra's than building. :D
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Thanks, good to know, I'll wait!
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100k miles or 10 years was the interval, not that dissimilar to the traditional 1.6 16V that has been around for years (cam phasing on the sprockets make it look more complex than it is).
Water pump is aux belt driven so can be left alone
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yes,pretty similar engine to the astra G, H, 16v
gates cam belt kit about £90
worth buying the locking kit for the flywheel locking tool ,wedges etc
locking kit like this type clicky £16.39 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/7PC-Engine-Timing-Locking-Tool-Kit-For-Vauxhall-Opel-Astra-H-04-13-1-4-1-6-16V/254098822715?hash=item3b2978563b:g:~jAAAOSwunNeFb1E)
engine mount has to come off
here's pics of the z16xep (without cam phaser sprockets)
(https://scontent-lhr8-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/68743001_1292629557614236_2433286951017644032_o.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=OVYaiG1wV_MAX96M0D6&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr8-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=a5d6026e33889ac2b84dea49c07470b7&oe=5F5A16F1)
flywheel locking tool bolted on gearbox end
(https://scontent-lhr8-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/68552999_1292630014280857_9200595301298077696_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=HDx0c1mUu2QAX-fg6xG&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr8-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=0f9b23548b4f3b1492c2d3402d9952ab&oe=5F587FF5)
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Thanks dave the builder, seems doable. Crank pulley seem removed by taking the big bolt away - not a problem? Left "idler" is propably a tensioner - any rules how to adjust the tension or are there clear marks?
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Crank pulley seem removed by taking the big bolt away - not a problem? Left "idler" is propably a tensioner - any rules how to adjust the tension or are there clear marks?
with the flywheel locking tool in,the crank pulley bolt comes out ok(it's very tight ) new bolt required (which is in the gates kit)
yes the left idler is the tensioner :) spring loaded/self adjusting ,holds back with hex key to get the belt on
the original design of tensioner was spring loaded too with a pin to pull ,but that was revised to be bolted in place and wound back with hex key .
the belt is pretty tight to get on even with the tensioner slackened ,but DIY doable ,just take your time ,
DON'T load up the cam phaser sprockets to get the belt to fit ,keep them locked
timing marks are a guide but don't line up perfectly
Gates kit contains instructions ,idler with new bolt ,tensioner with new bolt, belt , crankshaft bolt
it's worth re-packing (with grease) the aux belt tensioner pulley as you would on an omega :y
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Thanks a lot, that is good to know, now I can start this job. And Yes, I take care of the lubrication of the pulley. Actually this pulley (+used belt belt) is the only spare I have allways with me in my Omega.
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So this is moving ahead quickly like all my projects do, I already ordered the locking tool. Could you please still recommend a site for the suitable Gates kit, Astra J 1.6 A16XER (115 hp) 2010 to ensure I order the right one...
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Andy Clears mentioned earlier this year that Gates timing kits are no longer what they once were. He recommended slightly more expensive SKF and Dayco kits. I would look to buy a Continental ContiTech kit, which is likely to be closest to factory spec. Try autodoc.de
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Ok, I start to look from there, Thanks. Something to do during Christmas holidays.
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https://www.autodoc.co.uk/contitech/10957958
So found this, is it OOF recommendation (and correct kit)
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Looks the same as the Gates one bits wise :y
https://gatesautocat.com/article/KP15603XS (https://gatesautocat.com/article/KP15603XS)
£87.03 INC pump and P&P ebay (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gates-Timing-Belt-Water-Pump-Kit-Fits-Astra-Zafira-Mokka-Insignia-KP15603XS/163050686458?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l9372) is what i fit
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Thanks, reasonable price with water pump and "Trusted UK Seller", too. I think that's the one for me...
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you don't have to replace the pump,
it's not cambelt driven,
it's just i replace it and the aux belt and grease the tensioner bearing while it's all apart
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Sure, understood, just want to get that pump here when neede some day.
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That was my thinking for getting the kit with water pump :)
just the pump is upwards of £25 on it's own if not purchased as part of a kit ,
and if you have a spare of something the original never fails :-X
then the old pump was staring at me ,easy to get at ::) so i swapped it for the new one :P
that's happened 3 times now :D (we have 5 astras and 2 zafiras)
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Thanks for good tips, ordered from the Trusted Guy today. When I locate the metal bar between cams I need to remove cam cover. Is the gasget reusable or should I buy new one in advance. And I am sure that when I am down there I certainly change the water pump, too.
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Thanks for good tips, ordered from the Trusted Guy today. When I locate the metal bar between cams I need to remove cam cover. Is the gasget reusable or should I buy new one in advance. And I am sure that when I am down there I certainly change the water pump, too.
no need to remove the cam cover , the cam wedges will lock the cams and there's a crankshaft locking bracket to lock the bottom end (to remove the pulley, which is tight, and a stretch bolt ,included in the Gates kit)
i'll do spme pics of the set up in a bit and some more info ;)
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Sorry the pics are so big , don't know how to resize them :-[
just copy and paste them to your PC to view better :P
so the red wedges will go between cams ( your cam sprockets will have VVT gubbins but the wedges should fit,none of mine are VVT)
IF NOT then you could lock the cams with the flat bar the other end ,gasket should be OK to re use IF you have to go that route ,but no guarantee on a used gasket .especially if some part swapper has been there before :-X
(https://scontent-lhr8-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/68743001_1292629557614236_2433286951017644032_o.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Bj_KGSVVBPUAX_4uCZ8&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr8-1.xx&oh=1a4d1c29e49eb810e07bbcc9b2bc2fc3&oe=5FFE3E18)
the crank locking tool is put in the slot at the flywheel end of the block ,
and held in place with the bolt you remove from the engine mount
(https://scontent-lhr8-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/68552999_1292630014280857_9200595301298077696_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=vCjTelZlBe4AX8dX-LB&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr8-1.xx&oh=7cd83960767f54156a611b4ef3d7f624&oe=5FFC9D94)
with the crankshaft locked ,you can wizz off the bottom pulley to put the belt on the crank
(https://scontent-lhr8-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/68751149_1292629817614210_598401974987128832_o.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Kf9guj9gtG4AX_zQhAq&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr8-1.xx&oh=5a29a0bb7f915a62f0dc4fc0cf1ab07d&oe=5FFBBAA3)
a hex key is used to take the tension off the tensioner pulley, the belt is tight when fitting, even with the tensioner slacked off ,don't forget to un-lock the crank by removing the locking bracket after you've torqued the crank pulley back on and put the bolt back in the front engine mount
also make sure the crank pully is correctly seated in the key before torqued up :P
turn the engine over a few times by ratchet to check it's timed
all pretty simple stuff really :)
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Thanks again, nice pictures (big enough, too). All understood, hopefully I find the slot in block for flywheel locking plate, is it in the windscreen side or radiator side of the engine? Daughter will come for Christmas with this Astra so I cannot study it beforehand...
I asked the usage of the metal bar as I found nice video enclosed here. That guy used both the bar and wedges, I guess wedges are enough.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed9m1f2P34E
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Next to the lower engine mount by the look of it :-\
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Thanks DG.
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Thanks again, nice pictures (big enough, too). All understood, hopefully I find the slot in block for flywheel locking plate, is it in the windscreen side or radiator side of the engine?
the crank locking tool goes in a slot at the front,(the slot is lower down and to the side of the 710 filter), close to the rad side than the screen side ,you will need to remove one bolt from the engine mount to then use to hold the crank lock bracket in place (if you don't remove the bolt the bracket won't sit as per my photo ) there's a slot in the back of the flywheel that the prong of the locking bracket goes into ,rotate the crank with a ratchet to align up the "window" so the prong will go in .
hard to explain ,easy to do
I asked the usage of the metal bar as I found nice video enclosed here. That guy used both the bar and wedges, I guess wedges are enough.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed9m1f2P34E
once the cam phasers/sprockets are locked with wedges i don't see how locking the cams the other end would serve any benefit unless you where taking the cylinder head off . but insert the flat bar as well if you like . i guess it does stop the phasers loading up .but you lock the crankshaft first anyway ,so the cams are held with the wedges and nothing moves.
shame the video doesn't show how to lock the crankshaft ,and the timing mark on the crank shaft sprocket can't be seen UNTIL the crank pully/harmonic damper is removed , which can't happen until you lock the crankshaft .
in that video the crank shaft locking tool is still in the blow moulded case ::) so they must have windy gunned the stretch bolt out of the crankshaft to remove the pulley :( leaving nothing to turn the engine to the correct timing
DON'T put spanners on the cam phaser sprockets or cams to turn the engine to timing marks , that won't end well ;D
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Everything start to be clear, Thanks, Christmas is coming and daughter with Astra soon,too.
Not very informative video but the dog was nice!
What is the bright/grey tool in this box? What to do with that?
(https://i.postimg.cc/fynn25Kc/20201221-150004.jpg)
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What is the bright/grey tool in this box? What to do with that?
I've never used it , I think it may be used to lock the flywheel on another engine
these kits are clones of genuine GM workshop special tools ,very little info is available
I just used the tools i needed for 1.6 petrol 4 bangers from the kit ;D
the thin wire type thing is obsolete (was to lock the cambelt tensioner but they changed the design of the tensioner to be held back with a hex key (not included in the kit)
the thick round bar is to lock the aux belt tensioner
flat bar to lock the cams if you remove the head
Have fun ;D
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Usually I make a comment when job jobbed. This time delivery time from U.K. was longer than expected. Timing kit came after Christmas and daughter with Astra already left. I only changed the outer belt which seemed to be worn. Hope that timing belt will last to Eastern time when I see Astra next time. So, year model 2010 and "only" 77000 km behind. Perhaps I do not have to worry about the timing belt yet?
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10 years was the time interval 100k mileage ,there was talk it had changed to 7 years/70k
are you saying it's done 77k or 177k :-\
I didn't notice you where not in the UK sorry :-[
kits i've ordered have been 48 hours ,but I am in the UK
Hopefully the Astra has a good strong mix of anti-freeze ?
with cambelts you never really know, could last another 100k or snap next turn of the key
even a cambelt within service interval can let go
Hopefully you will get the car back and sorted without incident :)
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Thanks, I have 77 000 km, not 177 000 km. Dimension 'km' means kilometers and 60 miles is 100 kilometers so is the mileage 100k we talk 100 000 miles?
Antifreeze ok, -36 centigrate guaranteed...
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ah OK :)
10 years or 100,000 miles was the original interval in the UK
Mileage on a car can be deceptive anyway
example ..... a car can do 50 miles a day at 50MPH total run time 1 hour,
another car may do 5 miles per day but spend 2 hours stuck in traffic idling
both cars may show 30,000 miles on the odometer ,but engine and component wear will be very different :P
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No problem, 100 000 miles is more than 160 000 kilometers and even 70 000 miles is more than 115 000 km. Let's see, I will do it in Eastern. It is bad luck if it brakes before that, if it does it's just max. 16 valves and some stupid work, ha ha...
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It is bad luck if it brakes before that, if it does it's just max. 16 valves and some stupid work, ha ha...
That's a half full way of looking at it ;D ;D
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Crank pulley seem removed by taking the big bolt away - not a problem? Left "idler" is propably a tensioner - any rules how to adjust the tension or are there clear marks?
with the flywheel locking tool in,the crank pulley bolt comes out ok(it's very tight ) new bolt required (which is in the gates kit)
yes the left idler is the tensioner :) spring loaded/self adjusting ,holds back with hex key to get the belt on
the original design of tensioner was spring loaded too with a pin to pull ,but that was revised to be bolted in place and wound back with hex key .
the belt is pretty tight to get on even with the tensioner slackened ,but DIY doable ,just take your time ,
DON'T load up the cam phaser sprockets to get the belt to fit ,keep them locked
timing marks are a guide but don't line up perfectly
Gates kit contains instructions ,idler with new bolt ,tensioner with new bolt, belt , crankshaft bolt
it's worth re-packing (with grease) the aux belt tensioner pulley as you would on an omega :y
Yes, the marks really were not lined up perfectly, job jobbed finally, all ok, (started to think this project a year ago). Thanks a lot for your help.
(https://i.postimg.cc/7PpqYs9y/20210827-203905.jpg)
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Well done :)
not a hard job with the locking kit if you take your time ,though a year is a bit long ;D
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Would like to say: "Well begun is half done". I watched all the videos etc. beforehand...