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Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 05 July 2022, 18:11:46

Title: Javid resigns.
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 05 July 2022, 18:11:46
Boris is on very thin ice.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 05 July 2022, 18:14:43
....and dishy Rishi. :o
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 05 July 2022, 18:15:27
Boris is finished, I think.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Lizzie Zoom on 05 July 2022, 18:19:29
Yes, just two weeks to go according to some MP’s tonight.

Boris “forgot” about the earlier Pincher accusations……….FFS!!!! >:(

It cannot get any worse.  A disaster ::) ::)
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 05 July 2022, 18:24:10
Sunak won't be any loss!  ::)
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 05 July 2022, 18:25:25
Yes, just two weeks to go according to some MP’s tonight.

Boris “forgot” about the earlier Pincher accusations……….FFS!!!! >:(

It cannot get any worse.  A disaster ::) ::)

I don't think he can survive.

148 Tory MP  (41%) have no confidence in him and now two of the biggest hitters have put the boot in. ::)

He's toast.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Viral_Jim on 05 July 2022, 18:25:25
Two weeks?! I reckon he'll be lucky to see the weekend  ;D

Although why you think his loss to British politics is a disaster, I don't know.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 05 July 2022, 18:27:05
Perhaps Theresa will get her old job back... :D
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Lizzie Zoom on 05 July 2022, 18:40:28
Two weeks?! I reckon he'll be lucky to see the weekend  ;D

Although why you think his loss to British politics is a disaster, I don't know.

In regards to any hope that Boris can survive, even with his important role in international politics, it is the end.  That is a disaster for British politics in so far, as said before in many previous threads, that the credibility of the Government is shot to pieces but there is no obvious choice for a replacement. At this time with an international and financial crisis in full swing, we must have strong leadership.  But we have not, Boris will go, and Putin must be laughing his soaks off!!

Is that not all a disaster for Britain Plc? :(
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 05 July 2022, 18:49:41
Politicians are liars. Its what they do. Most of them learn to do it smoothly and have escape routes planned.
Boris doesnt seem to give a monkeys. He just doesnt seem to care that everyone knows he is  liar.
I can only put it down to arrogance and a sense of entitlement to a level where he doesnt think he should bother trying to hide it from all the plebs. We arent worth the waste of his time and effort.
He will just lie his way out of the lies.
Either that or he is just too plain stupid to know how to get away with it like all the others do.  :-\
If he survives this though, he is a far better escapologist than Houdini ever was.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Viral_Jim on 05 July 2022, 18:57:02
I agree with everything you say Lizzie, I guess where our opinions differ is on whether having having BoJo in the top spot or not makes a difference to the strength of our country's leadership.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: STEMO on 05 July 2022, 22:06:02
Nadhim Zahawi, the new chancellor of the exchequer, asked Rishi Sunak, the old chancellor of the exchequer, for a 10% pay rise for teachers last week.
Sooooo............ :-\
 ;D
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 05 July 2022, 22:56:24
Solicitor General has gone now.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 06 July 2022, 03:57:30
Perhaps Theresa will get her old job back... :D
Well, now Brexit is done, perhaps Vote Dave might be up for a second go...
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 06 July 2022, 08:32:03
Will Quince was on TV two days ago defending Boris. He has just resigned because he was lied to.
I believe seven other ministers have resigned last night.
Boris is going to do a Gordon Brown and superglue himself to his desk in number 10, but he is going to have to go.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Rangie on 06 July 2022, 08:43:54
I think I just caught on the news 12 resignations so far, it's definitely gone tits up.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 06 July 2022, 11:13:06
I think Rishi has been waiting for the right moment to jump ship.
The revelations about him and his wife recently mean he is unlikely to ever got the top job. He has floundered badly as chancellor.
The economy has completely spun out of his control. So hes probably finished.
No doubt he got his head together with Javid and both resigned at the same time to cause maximum damage to Bojo.
Javid is highly ambitious and desperately wants to be PM.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Migalot on 06 July 2022, 11:57:35
Hope Johnson goes. :y

As long as his successor has nothing to do with the WEF (e.g. Truss and Sunak), we may be in a slightly better place.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 06 July 2022, 13:28:44
So who to replace Bojo?
The milf Penny Mordaunt?... ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 06 July 2022, 13:48:43
I think everyone is getting ahead of themselves and they'll have to drag Boris out of No10 kicking and screaming!  ;D
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 06 July 2022, 13:55:06
I think everyone is getting ahead of themselves and they'll have to drag Boris out of No10 kicking and screaming!  ;D

Even if he survives he can't be an effective leader. The numbers are against him.

With so many knives sticking out of his back he has very little political power to do anything. :-\
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Raeturbo on 06 July 2022, 14:01:38
Ben Wallace?
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Migalot on 06 July 2022, 14:09:25
Ben Wallace?

Nope. WEF.

Warmonger, too.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 06 July 2022, 14:41:19
The minister for the 18th century?

He'd be big on stopping pollution by banning cars and bringing back the Hansom cab.

The monocle could also make a comeback along with plans for youth employment that involve small boys and a tight chimney. ::)



Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Rangie on 06 July 2022, 15:21:53
What always makes me smile the instant " new places" eg Education minister is now the new chancellor, hope he's been practising his maths very hard or are they simply " experts" in everything..😂😂😂
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 06 July 2022, 15:44:04
What always makes me smile the instant " new places" eg Education minister is now the new chancellor, hope he's been practising his maths very hard or are they simply " experts" in everything..😂😂😂

Mrs Opti always says the exact same thing.

Just because a man is an authority on education doesn't means he knows how to add up large numbers. :)
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: STEMO on 06 July 2022, 15:50:22
They have 'advisors' who are permanent civil servants. Whether they listen to them or not..... ::)
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Keith ABS on 06 July 2022, 16:33:35
 The ministers have no say. Its the civil servants who run everything no matter who is in charge. If they dislike some one, "things" get leaked, cock ups occur.
The Minister is just the mouthpiece with no power
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Varche on 06 July 2022, 19:35:20
Liz Truss?
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Migalot on 06 July 2022, 20:43:23
Liz Truss?

No. WEF.

Mad warmonger.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Lizzie Zoom on 06 July 2022, 21:07:19
I think everyone is getting ahead of themselves and they'll have to drag Boris out of No10 kicking and screaming!  ;D

At last count, 37 members of his Government have now resigned, with those within his party predicting he will “go tonight”.  There is no way he can fill those vacancies as few want to now be associated with him to that level. So effectively Boris has no Government left to lead.

I reckon when Boris goes they should ask him to turn the lights off in No.10 as no one will be left inside😅!!
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Lizzie Zoom on 06 July 2022, 22:02:53
Now 43 resignations, and still Boris has not gone!!! ::) ::)
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: STEMO on 06 July 2022, 22:14:33
As I've said countless times, Boris will not go willingly, they'll have to remove him.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: STEMO on 06 July 2022, 22:18:37
But, whichever way you look at it, the damage to the Conservative party is huge. When/if Boris goes, or doesn't go, the party is now split. Recriminations will follow, distrust will be rife.
The BBC is, once again, trying to make the news instead of reporting it.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: STEMO on 06 July 2022, 22:21:05
At times like this, we all have to nail our colours to the mast, and I hope he survives. But it's looking like I might be disappointed.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: ronnyd on 06 July 2022, 23:07:15
Just read that the snake that is Michael Gove has been sacked. Makes a change from a resignation i suppose. ;D
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Raeturbo on 07 July 2022, 00:22:55
Yes a snake and a face that encourages a good slapping.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: STEMO on 07 July 2022, 07:35:50
At times like this, we all have to nail our colours to the mast, and I hope he survives. But it's looking like I might be disappointed.
I might be wavering in my support for him after this mornings revelations. If he turns up on telly with an orange face I'll definitely do a U turn  ;D
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: grifter on 07 July 2022, 07:58:38
I think everyone is getting ahead of themselves and they'll have to drag Boris out of No10 kicking and screaming!  ;D

At last count, 37 members of his Government have now resigned, with those within his party predicting he will “go tonight”.  There is no way he can fill those vacancies as few want to now be associated with him to that level. So effectively Boris has no Government left to lead.

I reckon when Boris goes they should ask him to turn the lights off in No.10 as no one will be left inside😅!!

Larry the cat is holding out!
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: BazaJT on 07 July 2022, 09:42:31
Let's put him in charge then,we might as well we couldn't be any worse off
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Lizzie Zoom on 07 July 2022, 10:09:32
I think everyone is getting ahead of themselves and they'll have to drag Boris out of No10 kicking and screaming!  ;D

At last count, 37 members of his Government have now resigned, with those within his party predicting he will “go tonight”.  There is no way he can fill those vacancies as few want to now be associated with him to that level. So effectively Boris has no Government left to lead.

I reckon when Boris goes they should ask him to turn the lights off in No.10 as no one will be left inside😅!!

Larry the cat is holding out!

Well, at last, he is resigning! :y :y (Apparently just a question of when……….. ::) ::) ::)

Now for a protracted leadership race, selection and appointment.  Let us hope the main issues of this country are not to continue being left on the back burner.  Action is required now.

God help us! ::)

Larry the cat is the only constant at No 10 right now. :D ;)
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Raeturbo on 07 July 2022, 11:22:41
Mm Penny Would be nice to look at, and as none of them are any good anyway, at least you’ve got the view :y
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Varche on 07 July 2022, 11:35:22
Liz Truss.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 07 July 2022, 11:45:56
When you think about it the last nine months have been extraordinary with the relentless campaign to bring Boris Johnson down.  :-\

If I put my tin foil hat on, I might think that there were dark forces at work...  :-X

Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: STEMO on 07 July 2022, 11:53:05
When you think about it the last nine months have been extraordinary with the relentless campaign to bring Boris Johnson down.  :-\

If I put my tin foil hat on, I might think that there were dark forces at work...  :-X
I'm sure you'll find a conspiracy site somewhere to support your theory, Sir Tig. Probably alongside the one that says the Australian government have been tinkering with the weather so as to flood Sydney and control the population.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: STEMO on 07 July 2022, 11:55:11
Yes, it's true  ;D

Australia floods: Unfounded cloud seeding claims spread online https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-62049654
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 07 July 2022, 12:12:29
Yes I know I'm delving into conspiracy theory territory, but it really has been extraordinary.  As soon as he got through one thing, another popped up.  ::)

Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Lizzie Zoom on 07 July 2022, 12:13:57
It is now suspected he is going as party leader, but remain at PM until new one appointed………….FFS!! ::) ::) >:(
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 07 July 2022, 12:21:23
Does Donald hold dual citizenship?
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Varche on 07 July 2022, 12:26:08
Yes I know I'm delving into conspiracy theory territory, but it really has been extraordinary.  As soon as he got through one thing, another popped up.  ::)

It is the Chinese but people don’t realise ( yet)!
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Migalot on 07 July 2022, 12:26:49
It is now suspected he is going as party leader, but remain at PM until new one appointed………….FFS!! ::) ::) >:(

With Parliament going into recess and the need to have an open election in the Party, that is hardly surprising. At least it gives time for potential runners to be vetted and any WEF types (like Truss and Sunak) weeded out. 
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: STEMO on 07 July 2022, 12:27:30
Does Donald hold dual citizenship?
He's too busy plotting to overthrow Nicola Sturgeon, changing planning laws and turning Scotland into one massive golf course.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: STEMO on 07 July 2022, 12:32:47
Let's face it, no matter who gets in, of any political party, we, like the rest of the world, are f**ked. So called globalisation has made sure no country can self govern while they are dependent on imports from other countries.
We cannot feed ourselves, warm ourselves or drive about in our cars without the goods and services from abroad. And abroad is in a parlous state.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: STEMO on 07 July 2022, 12:35:41
Yes I know I'm delving into conspiracy theory territory, but it really has been extraordinary.  As soon as he got through one thing, another popped up.  ::)
Unfortunately, all of them were true.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 07 July 2022, 13:03:49
Steve Baker may throw his hat in the ring. :)
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Andy B on 07 July 2022, 13:05:27
......
And abroad is in a parlous state.


good word!  :y :y
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Migalot on 07 July 2022, 13:18:24
Steve Baker may throw his hat in the ring. :)

I'm cautious about them all, but Baker seems reasonable.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 07 July 2022, 14:41:31
Yes I know I'm delving into conspiracy theory territory, but it really has been extraordinary.  As soon as he got through one thing, another popped up.  ::)
Unfortunately, all of them were true.

To some degree yes, however if Boris had had a competent comms team he might not be where he is today.  ::)

Partygate was blown way out of proportion by the media and they let the narrative that Boris was partying while people were dying take hold.  He wasn't even in the building a lot of times when the civil servants were getting lashed up.

And rather than acting like a twelve year old boy caught scrumping and trying to get out of it, they should have brazenly styled out Pinchergate and said to everyone Yes he was investigated a few years ago, but we gave him a second chance, but sadly Mr Pincher hadn't overcome his demons. Or they could have played on the LGBT angle something like that.  ::)
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: LC0112G on 07 July 2022, 15:07:52
And rather than acting like a twelve year old boy caught scrumping and trying to get out of it, they should have brazenly styled out Pinchergate and said to everyone Yes he was investigated a few years ago, but we gave him a second chance, but sadly Mr Pincher hadn't overcome his demons. Or they could have played on the LGBT angle something like that.  ::)

Yes that excuse may have worked.

The problem was that he went through 4 versions of saying he didn't know anything about it over the weekend before finally admitting that he did all along. And he implicated fellow cabinet members by "misleading" them into defending him in the process. That made the cabinet members look like d1ck heads, and finally someone stood up to him (Javid and Sunak). After loosing the trust of the cabinet there weren't enough people left he could fool into trusting him and he was doomed.

He could p155 off the public, the EU, and back benchers all he liked, and get away with it because there was nothing anyone could do (untill the next GE at least). But once he lost the trust of senior cabinet members, who can fight back, then all it needed is a few of them with backbone to stick the knife in.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 07 July 2022, 15:39:58
And rather than acting like a twelve year old boy caught scrumping and trying to get out of it, they should have brazenly styled out Pinchergate and said to everyone Yes he was investigated a few years ago, but we gave him a second chance, but sadly Mr Pincher hadn't overcome his demons. Or they could have played on the LGBT angle something like that.  ::)

Yes that excuse may have worked.

The problem was that he went through 4 versions of saying he didn't know anything about it over the weekend before finally admitting that he did all along. And he implicated fellow cabinet members by "misleading" them into defending him in the process. That made the cabinet members look like d1ck heads, and finally someone stood up to him (Javid and Sunak). After loosing the trust of the cabinet there weren't enough people left he could fool into trusting him and he was doomed.

He could p155 off the public, the EU, and back benchers all he liked, and get away with it because there was nothing anyone could do (untill the next GE at least). But once he lost the trust of senior cabinet members, who can fight back, then all it needed is a few of them with backbone to stick the knife in.

That's exactly what I'm getting at, if he'd had a decent comms team, they'd have come up with a good story and stuck with it.

In fact the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that they should have used the LGBT angle.  How could the media or Sir Starmer argue against the attempted rehabilitation of a member of the LGBT+ community?  We're very sad that it didn't work out as we would have liked..... and efforts will be made to try and help Mr Pincher going forward  :)

Jeez I should have been a Spin Doctor!  ;D
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 07 July 2022, 15:46:09
He was well known as a compulsve liar before he even became an MP. He needed to do everything possible to get rid of that trait, and not give his enemies the excuses to attack him.
He made no effort to do so at all through sheer arrogance. He thought he was cleverer than all of them anc that they would never be able to lay a glove on him.
It has cost him his career.
I used to work with a guy who always picked bare faced lying as his first option in any given situation. Even when there was no need to consider that option.
I suspect Boris is exactly the same. Its just who he is.
He served a useful purpose after the zombie Parliament, but beyond that is wholly unsuitable for public office.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: LC0112G on 07 July 2022, 16:07:35
And rather than acting like a twelve year old boy caught scrumping and trying to get out of it, they should have brazenly styled out Pinchergate and said to everyone Yes he was investigated a few years ago, but we gave him a second chance, but sadly Mr Pincher hadn't overcome his demons. Or they could have played on the LGBT angle something like that.  ::)

Yes that excuse may have worked.

The problem was that he went through 4 versions of saying he didn't know anything about it over the weekend before finally admitting that he did all along. And he implicated fellow cabinet members by "misleading" them into defending him in the process. That made the cabinet members look like d1ck heads, and finally someone stood up to him (Javid and Sunak). After loosing the trust of the cabinet there weren't enough people left he could fool into trusting him and he was doomed.

He could p155 off the public, the EU, and back benchers all he liked, and get away with it because there was nothing anyone could do (untill the next GE at least). But once he lost the trust of senior cabinet members, who can fight back, then all it needed is a few of them with backbone to stick the knife in.

That's exactly what I'm getting at, if he'd had a decent comms team, they'd have come up with a good story and stuck with it.

A decent comms team might allow you to lie to the public and get away with it. But what did for Boris was lying to cabinet members sat around the table with him in Downing street. I don't believe you can use a comms team to speak to someone sitting next to you. They will smell a rat. IMHO it was the bare faced lying to cabinet members and then sending them out as cannon fodder over the weekend to repeat those lies that did for him.

You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time. What you can't do is fool all of the people (even Tory MP's) all of the time.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: LC0112G on 07 July 2022, 16:12:07
He served a useful purpose after the zombie Parliament, but beyond that is wholly unsuitable for public office.
You're choosing to believe that the way he got us out of the "Zombie Parliament" wasn't also based on bare faced lies. ::)
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: TheBoy on 07 July 2022, 16:17:42
Let's face it, no matter who gets in, of any political party, we, like the rest of the world, are f**ked. So called globalisation has made sure no country can self govern while they are dependent on imports from other countries.
We cannot feed ourselves, warm ourselves or drive about in our cars without the goods and services from abroad. And abroad is in a parlous state.
Not sure if thats globalisation or our own inherent stupidity.  We keep insisting on building massive new housing estates, solar farms and unneeded railways across our farmland, making our country unable to sustain itself without importing food and other goods....
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: TheBoy on 07 July 2022, 16:18:56
He served a useful purpose after the zombie Parliament, but beyond that is wholly unsuitable for public office.
Did he?  He seemed to monumentally cock it all up with that "ready made deal" that was anything but.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Nick W on 07 July 2022, 16:21:50
Let's face it, no matter who gets in, of any political party, we, like the rest of the world, are f**ked. So called globalisation has made sure no country can self govern while they are dependent on imports from other countries.
We cannot feed ourselves, warm ourselves or drive about in our cars without the goods and services from abroad. And abroad is in a parlous state.
Not sure if thats globalisation or our own inherent stupidity.  We keep insisting on building massive new housing estates, solar farms and unneeded railways across our farmland, making our country unable to sustain itself without importing food and other goods....


you do know that Britain hasn't been self-sustaining for 200 years? When the population was about a fifth of today?
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 07 July 2022, 16:22:08
He served a useful purpose after the zombie Parliament, but beyond that is wholly unsuitable for public office.
Did he?  He seemed to monumentally cock it all up with that "ready made deal" that was anything but.

Oven ready deal was the line.   He never said it was fully cooked though.  ;D
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 07 July 2022, 16:23:25
Let's face it, no matter who gets in, of any political party, we, like the rest of the world, are f**ked. So called globalisation has made sure no country can self govern while they are dependent on imports from other countries.
We cannot feed ourselves, warm ourselves or drive about in our cars without the goods and services from abroad. And abroad is in a parlous state.
Not sure if thats globalisation or our own inherent stupidity.  We keep insisting on building massive new housing estates, solar farms and unneeded railways across our farmland, making our country unable to sustain itself without importing food and other goods....


you do know that Britain hasn't been self-sustaining for 200 years? When the population was about a fifth of today?

Everybody knows this Nick, but we could be a lot more self sufficient than we are.

Particularly in energy.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 07 July 2022, 16:33:42
And rather than acting like a twelve year old boy caught scrumping and trying to get out of it, they should have brazenly styled out Pinchergate and said to everyone Yes he was investigated a few years ago, but we gave him a second chance, but sadly Mr Pincher hadn't overcome his demons. Or they could have played on the LGBT angle something like that.  ::)

Yes that excuse may have worked.

The problem was that he went through 4 versions of saying he didn't know anything about it over the weekend before finally admitting that he did all along. And he implicated fellow cabinet members by "misleading" them into defending him in the process. That made the cabinet members look like d1ck heads, and finally someone stood up to him (Javid and Sunak). After loosing the trust of the cabinet there weren't enough people left he could fool into trusting him and he was doomed.

He could p155 off the public, the EU, and back benchers all he liked, and get away with it because there was nothing anyone could do (untill the next GE at least). But once he lost the trust of senior cabinet members, who can fight back, then all it needed is a few of them with backbone to stick the knife in.

That's exactly what I'm getting at, if he'd had a decent comms team, they'd have come up with a good story and stuck with it.

A decent comms team might allow you to lie to the public and get away with it. But what did for Boris was lying to cabinet members sat around the table with him in Downing street. I don't believe you can use a comms team to speak to someone sitting next to you. They will smell a rat. IMHO it was the bare faced lying to cabinet members and then sending them out as cannon fodder over the weekend to repeat those lies that did for him.

You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time. What you can't do is fool all of the people (even Tory MP's) all of the time.

You're missing my point though Malc. They didn't have to lie, that's what I'm saying.

They could have come up with an acceptable version of the truth for the public and the ministers they sent out.

How could anyone argue against an attempt to rehabilitate and save a remorseful gay gropers career? I thought that sort of thing was all the rage these days!  ;D
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: LC0112G on 07 July 2022, 16:39:47
Let's face it, no matter who gets in, of any political party, we, like the rest of the world, are f**ked. So called globalisation has made sure no country can self govern while they are dependent on imports from other countries.
We cannot feed ourselves, warm ourselves or drive about in our cars without the goods and services from abroad. And abroad is in a parlous state.
Not sure if thats globalisation or our own inherent stupidity.  We keep insisting on building massive new housing estates, solar farms and unneeded railways across our farmland, making our country unable to sustain itself without importing food and other goods....


you do know that Britain hasn't been self-sustaining for 200 years? When the population was about a fifth of today?

Everybody knows this Nick, but we could be a lot more self sufficient than we are.

Particularly in energy.

This is the bit I disagree with. The oil/gas that comes out of the ground is owned by Shell/Mobil/Exxon/Whoever, not the UK. Sure the govt gets to license and tax it's production, but they cannot ensure it is sold to the UK market, or even if it is, control the price. Well they could, but that would involve nationalizing it and running it as a state industry. Don't think even Corbyn proposed that.

It does reduce transport costs if the oil/gas is sold locally to where it's produced, but that isn't really a factor in the price of oil/gas. The UK produces about 8% of the oil/gas produced by Russia alone, and barely 1% of world production. There is no realistic possibility of increasing UK production to get anywhere close to being self sufficient - even if you did force the oil companies to sell to the UK only.

Nuclear is the only way out of this mess, but no-one wants a nuke power station in their own back yard.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: LC0112G on 07 July 2022, 16:47:33
You're missing my point though Malc. They didn't have to lie, that's what I'm saying.

They could have come up with an acceptable version of the truth for the public and the ministers they sent out.

Requires some joined up thinking though - and I just don't think that was ever in Boris' playbook. He would rather just lie and dissemble rather than try work out a way to spin a plausible version of the truth.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 07 July 2022, 16:57:34
You're missing my point though Malc. They didn't have to lie, that's what I'm saying.

They could have come up with an acceptable version of the truth for the public and the ministers they sent out.

Requires some joined up thinking though - and I just don't think that was ever in Boris' playbook. He would rather just lie and dissemble rather than try work out a way to spin a plausible version of the truth.

Exactly. He needed a decent comms team.

As much as I despise the pair of them, if Tony Blair and Alastair Campbell had found themselves in the same situation, they would have skipped over the hurdles that have tripped Boris up.  ::)
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 07 July 2022, 17:00:39
Let's face it, no matter who gets in, of any political party, we, like the rest of the world, are f**ked. So called globalisation has made sure no country can self govern while they are dependent on imports from other countries.
We cannot feed ourselves, warm ourselves or drive about in our cars without the goods and services from abroad. And abroad is in a parlous state.
Not sure if thats globalisation or our own inherent stupidity.  We keep insisting on building massive new housing estates, solar farms and unneeded railways across our farmland, making our country unable to sustain itself without importing food and other goods....


you do know that Britain hasn't been self-sustaining for 200 years? When the population was about a fifth of today?

Everybody knows this Nick, but we could be a lot more self sufficient than we are.

Particularly in energy.

This is the bit I disagree with. The oil/gas that comes out of the ground is owned by Shell/Mobil/Exxon/Whoever, not the UK. Sure the govt gets to license and tax it's production, but they cannot ensure it is sold to the UK market, or even if it is, control the price. Well they could, but that would involve nationalizing it and running it as a state industry. Don't think even Corbyn proposed that.

It does reduce transport costs if the oil/gas is sold locally to where it's produced, but that isn't really a factor in the price of oil/gas. The UK produces about 8% of the oil/gas produced by Russia alone, and barely 1% of world production. There is no realistic possibility of increasing UK production to get anywhere close to being self sufficient - even if you did force the oil companies to sell to the UK only.

Nuclear is the only way out of this mess, but no-one wants a nuke power station in their own back yard.

Times are changing Malc, and in the national interest we may have to contemplate things that not long ago would have been deemed completely unacceptable.

They may have to put conditions on licences such as export bans and 'strike prices'.  :-\
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: LC0112G on 07 July 2022, 17:35:17

Times are changing Malc, and in the national interest we may have to contemplate things that not long ago would have been deemed completely unacceptable.

They may have to put conditions on licences such as export bans and 'strike prices'.  :-\

Flip me - a Mod is going to have to change your user name to Comrade Tigger at this rate.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 07 July 2022, 18:21:57
He served a useful purpose after the zombie Parliament, but beyond that is wholly unsuitable for public office.
You're choosing to believe that the way he got us out of the "Zombie Parliament" wasn't also based on bare faced lies. ::)

To an extent it was.The Norn Irn protocol was the border down the Irish sea he told the DUP conference he would never consider doing under any circumstances.
Other than that, he took on those who were determined to overturn the biggest vote in the history of the UK and for that I applaud him.
Im under no illusions though. If he believed it would have been better for his career to overturn the vote, Im sure he would have fought for that to happen.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 07 July 2022, 18:27:45
You're missing my point though Malc. They didn't have to lie, that's what I'm saying.

They could have come up with an acceptable version of the truth for the public and the ministers they sent out.

Requires some joined up thinking though - and I just don't think that was ever in Boris' playbook. He would rather just lie and dissemble rather than try work out a way to spin a plausible version of the truth.

Exactly. He needed a decent comms team.

As much as I despise the pair of them, if Tony Blair and Alastair Campbell had found themselves in the same situation, they would have skipped over the hurdles that have tripped Boris up.  ::)

That I do agree with. Tony and his cronies did incalculable and permanent damage to this country on a huge scale, whereas Boris bullshitted everyone about mainly comparatively minor matters, because thats his default setting.
Tony and his cronies got away with all of it though, until the Iraq war finished his reputation.
He and his pals should have spent years behind bars for the things they did, but he became a global influencer and a squillionare instead.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 07 July 2022, 18:40:09
You're missing my point though Malc. They didn't have to lie, that's what I'm saying.

They could have come up with an acceptable version of the truth for the public and the ministers they sent out.

Requires some joined up thinking though - and I just don't think that was ever in Boris' playbook. He would rather just lie and dissemble rather than try work out a way to spin a plausible version of the truth.

Exactly. He needed a decent comms team.

As much as I despise the pair of them, if Tony Blair and Alastair Campbell had found themselves in the same situation, they would have skipped over the hurdles that have tripped Boris up.  ::)

That I do agree with. Tony and his cronies did incalculable and permanent damage to this country on a huge scale, whereas Boris bullshitted everyone about mainly comparatively minor matters, because thats his default setting.
Tony and his cronies got away with all of it though, until the Iraq war finished his reputation.
He and his pals should have spent years behind bars for the things they did, but he became a global influencer and a squillionare instead.

Even that didn't finish him off as he went on to win another majority at the 2005 election.  ::)

I couldn't believe that at the time!  :o   >:(  Still can't understand it.  :-\
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: STEMO on 07 July 2022, 22:12:22
Why does John Major's opinion seem to carry so much weight with the media? It's like he's some kind of elder statesman when, in the job, he was known as the grey man. He needs to shut his cakehole.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Kevin Wood on 07 July 2022, 22:13:50
Why does John Major's opinion seem to carry so much weight with the media? It's like he's some kind of elder statesman when, in the job, he was known as the grey man. He needs to shut his cakehole.

I think he's got his eyes on claiming the "turd that won't flush" award from Blair. ::)
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: STEMO on 07 July 2022, 22:14:53
Why does John Major's opinion seem to carry so much weight with the media? It's like he's some kind of elder statesman when, in the job, he was known as the grey man. He needs to shut his cakehole.

I think he's got his eyes on claiming the "turd that won't flush" award from Blair. ::)
That's a long term challenge, a few years yet before he even gets the nomination.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: STEMO on 07 July 2022, 22:17:15
I've had a bottle of wine, so I think we should have a war  ;D

Normal service will resume tomorrow, unless I have another bottle of wine.
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 07 July 2022, 23:21:59
I've had a bottle of wine, so I think we should have a war  ;D

Normal service will resume tomorrow, unless I have another bottle of wine.

Do it! We need some entertainment!  ;D

Talking of turds, I started watching QT but quickly switched off when Alastair Campbell started maniacally ranting about Boris Johnson telling lies.   ::)

What a colossal effing hypocrite!  >:(
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Varche on 07 July 2022, 23:22:31
Thought you had given up the hooch?
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: Varche on 07 July 2022, 23:25:42
Let's face it, no matter who gets in, of any political party, we, like the rest of the world, are f**ked. So called globalisation has made sure no country can self govern while they are dependent on imports from other countries.
We cannot feed ourselves, warm ourselves or drive about in our cars without the goods and services from abroad. And abroad is in a parlous state.
Not sure if thats globalisation or our own inherent stupidity.  We keep insisting on building massive new housing estates, solar farms and unneeded railways across our farmland, making our country unable to sustain itself without importing food and other goods....


you do know that Britain hasn't been self-sustaining for 200 years? When the population was about a fifth of today?

Everybody knows this Nick, but we could be a lot more self sufficient than we are.

Particularly in energy.

This is the bit I disagree with. The oil/gas that comes out of the ground is owned by Shell/Mobil/Exxon/Whoever, not the UK. Sure the govt gets to license and tax it's production, but they cannot ensure it is sold to the UK market, or even if it is, control the price. Well they could, but that would involve nationalizing it and running it as a state industry. Don't think even Corbyn proposed that.

It does reduce transport costs if the oil/gas is sold locally to where it's produced, but that isn't really a factor in the price of oil/gas. The UK produces about 8% of the oil/gas produced by Russia alone, and barely 1% of world production. There is no realistic possibility of increasing UK production to get anywhere close to being self sufficient - even if you did force the oil companies to sell to the UK only.

Nuclear is the only way out of this mess, but no-one wants a nuke power station in their own back yard.

Well the French want nuclear power in their back garden. They have just nationalised what little bit of EDF was  private and gone on a massive spending spree on nuclear and are going to keep cost of electric down. Maybe Boris2.0 can do the same?
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: STEMO on 08 July 2022, 07:10:08
Thought you had given up the hooch?
It was for medicinal purposes, my brain was hurting. And since wifey is away at a conference...... ::)
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: ronnyd on 08 July 2022, 10:25:55
Thought you had given up the hooch?
It was for medicinal purposes, my brain was hurting. And since wifey is away at a conference...... ::)
While the cat's away, the mouse gets pissed.  ;D
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: STEMO on 08 July 2022, 10:56:36
Thought you had given up the hooch?
It was for medicinal purposes, my brain was hurting. And since wifey is away at a conference...... ::)
While the cat's away, the mouse gets pissed.  ;D
Squeak, squeak  ;D
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: ronnyd on 08 July 2022, 19:47:04
I'll have to start calling you Mickey.  ;)
Title: Re: Javid resigns.
Post by: STEMO on 08 July 2022, 19:48:49
I'll have to start calling you Mickey.  ;)
Mickey Mouse=Scouse   :)