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Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Lizzie Zoom on 20 August 2022, 19:06:25

Title: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: Lizzie Zoom on 20 August 2022, 19:06:25
Now it is being broadcast that the average energy bills for homes will hit £6,000 at the beginning of 2023! :o

Now with tens of thousands starting to struggle, how the f’ing hell do our dear politicians think millions in this country are going to afford that?  Low income families with children are just going to implode! :o >:(

It is about time that the democratic leaders of the multiple nations being affected by this crisis on this planet actually do more than just talk.  There must be an answer than putting sticky plasters on the problem. It requires drastic action now.

Russia, or rather Putin, is the main cause of what everyone is suffering from in many ways. So, what is it that should be done by NATO and the UN?

I complain about war and mans passionately pursuing that option so often………but, now swallowing hard and gulping………should the mass armed forces of our nations attack Russia, or at least target the Kremlin with Putin and his bunch of thugs, with a first, hard, and massive strike………nuclear should be avoided, perhaps, but we know from history only a massive, determined, military action will destroy the forces of the enemy. ??  I understand from the various military and media reports that Russian forces are now much weakened, and in fact have been shown to have big flaws, with low morale and soldiers (with families at home) questioning why they are fighting their brothers in Ukraine. Should we bite the bullet now? Stand up to the tyrants? Give Ukraine a massive military boost to finally cripple Putin’s forces and reputation?

What are the thoughts on here?  We would risk WW3; China is an unknown factor, but the civilised world with the common people cannot carryon being seriously damaged, as being virtually squeezed out of existence by a lack of food, heating, lighting, fuel for everything!  £6,000 my arse!! :o :o >:(
>:(


Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: BazaJT on 20 August 2022, 20:24:33
When Putin annexed Crimea and nothing was done he was always going to push for more.Agreed he needs stopping in some way but a direct attack either on him and/or the Kremlin would I think certainly bring on WWIII.,which would have the potential to be the shortest war in history and the end of mankind.Apart from Russia cutting back/stopping supplies of gas etc in response to sanctions I think the cost of fuels is being held artificially high by the greed of investors who are busy making millions[billions?].With the increasing use of wind/solar power why is the cost still so high? Yes there is the cost of making/installing wind turbines/solar panels but the energy source is then basically free.
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 20 August 2022, 20:40:27
Wear a jumper.
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 20 August 2022, 21:13:12
I agree. Swmbo may not though. She was wearing a jumper yesterday afternoon when it was 25degrees.  ::) ;D
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: Varche on 20 August 2022, 22:16:19
Aren’t we already in WW3 ?

Your government is paralysed waiting for a new pm. Others are already acting.
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: STEMO on 20 August 2022, 23:08:49
Fear not. The government has plans to save us from perishing in the cold. Libraries and museums will provide safe and warm refuges from Jack Frost  ;D ;D

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/aug/20/libraries-and-museums-to-be-warm-havens-for-people-struggling-with-energy-bills
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: ronnyd on 20 August 2022, 23:36:47
Fear not. The government has plans to save us from perishing in the cold. Libraries and museums will provide safe and warm refuges from Jack Frost  ;D ;D

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/aug/20/libraries-and-museums-to-be-warm-havens-for-people-struggling-with-energy-bills
Not too good if you live in the middle of nowhere and there's only one bus a week into the nearest town.  :D
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 20 August 2022, 23:56:51
Calm down dear!  ::)

These £5000-6000 energy bills that everyone is talking about is mostly speculation from Britain's utterly corrupt media trying to sell papers and it's good clickbait as everyone likes a good doom and gloom story. House price crash anyone?  ::)

No one, not the corrupt media nor the Chairman of British Gas, or the man on the Clapham Omnibus have a scoobies as to what the wholesale price of natural gas might be come the spring. It might have rocketed due to various global factors such as the war in Ukraine or mad Net Zero policies around the world, or it might have completely slumped for some reason.  We just don't know.  ;)

So keep calm and carry on!  :y
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: Varche on 21 August 2022, 00:26:27
Slumped?

I cannotthink of anything that has slumped in price? Mostly stuffgoes up and stays up.

In the case of energy IF the raw materials come down, energy will stay high to recoup losses or to pay fornew i frastructure. Storage, windmills, solar, coal mines etc

I am with
Izzie on this one.  Everything is pretty orderly at the moment. It will only take a small upset.
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: Raeturbo on 21 August 2022, 00:53:59
Well there are people on this world living without gas or electricity and are happy.  Putin has said if there’s no Russia there will be no world. I think we should have tried to do more before this lot started but obviously that doesn’t help now, next step well, we’re dammed if we do and dammed if we don’t in my opinion.
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: Rangie on 21 August 2022, 08:18:59
I was just going to cancel my direct debit & pay for what I use but then Scottish Power my provider offered a 2 year fixed deal which didn't seem unreasonable, so I took the offer, however now they are only offering a 1 year fix at £160 a month more than I am paying so glad I made the right decision.
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 21 August 2022, 09:00:40
Slumped?

I cannotthink of anything that has slumped in price? Mostly stuffgoes up and stays up.

In the case of energy IF the raw materials come down, energy will stay high to recoup losses or to pay fornew i frastructure. Storage, windmills, solar, coal mines etc

I am with
Izzie on this one.  Everything is pretty orderly at the moment. It will only take a small upset.
Have you heard of inflation?

If anything,  this is simply the price for shitting the global economy down for two years.

If anything,  the Chinese are definitely up to no good,  but that's nothing new.
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 21 August 2022, 09:59:09
I was under the impression that quite a lot of our energy was generated by wind & solar power nowadays.
Do we need to import cheaper wind / sunlight ?
Has Putin captured all the cheap wind / sunlight ?  ::)
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: Rangie on 21 August 2022, 10:05:23
There was a bit on the news last week about an import of liquifed natural gas arriving here from Australia, seems ridiculous coming from the other side of the world,
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: Lizzie Zoom on 21 August 2022, 10:20:46
I was under the impression that quite a lot of our energy was generated by wind & solar power nowadays.
Do we need to import cheaper wind / sunlight ?
Has Putin captured all the cheap wind / sunlight ?  ::)

Yes, renewables will account for 45% of the electricity generated in the U.K. in 2022, so we are getting there.  The only challenge as of today is that 55% is still generated by other means, so what Putin is doing does affect our ability to generate cheaper power considerably, for now. Of course with other European countries even more at the mercy of Russian gas supplies, and the price they pay, the whole market price is being pushed upwards.

I agree with Baza that of course the greed of investors in the energy markets is also a very big factor in the current situation.  Perhaps we should suspend capitalism in this market and have the government tax those institutions and individuals responsible for excessive profit taking to give back to the people - of course useless Starmer has suggested this - but how does that work in a global market with global players in the market ‘game’??

I just don’t know. But certainly the current situation with market prices must be resolved, but how outside of military action against Putin.  I repeat though, I do not want WW3.

One hope is that forces within Russia will deal with Putin.  The latest news that the daughter of a key advisor to Putin has been killed in a bomb attack, which seems to have been aimed at the father, gives an indication that anti-Putin pressures are growing in Russia.

So perhaps we should just let the Ukrainians and those in Russia opposed to Putin bring the him down, with our governments doing whatever they can to counter the fuel price increases?? ???
 :)
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: biggriffin on 21 August 2022, 10:59:58
Stop your DD, submit a reading every month, pay that bill, any of your money they have as credit ask for it back.
Your money should be in your pocket not theirs.

All these sky high bills are speculation.
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: Lizzie Zoom on 21 August 2022, 12:07:31
Stop your DD, submit a reading every month, pay that bill, any of your money they have as credit ask for it back.
Your money should be in your pocket not theirs.

All these sky high bills are speculation.

I still am able to have a quarterly bill, with smart meter readings, and SSE have agreed to continuing with a DD payment for that bill for the actual reading.  :D

The quarterly bill I have just received for gas and electric is just £164, but that is after making economies on usage and buying a dishwasher to cut my gas bill for hot water to the minimum. ;)
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 21 August 2022, 12:55:08
Slumped?

I cannotthink of anything that has slumped in price? Mostly stuffgoes up and stays up.


In the case of energy IF the raw materials come down, energy will stay high to recoup losses or to pay fornew i frastructure. Storage, windmills, solar, coal mines etc

I am with
Izzie on this one.  Everything is pretty orderly at the moment. It will only take a small upset.

Crude oil regularly slumps. 2008, 2014, 2020, even recently the price of Brent Crude has gone down from nearly $130 a barrel to about $95.  ;)

A major Covid outbreak in China for example could trigger a commodities slump if Chairman/President Xi put the country back into lockdown, or even just the industrial and financial centres of Shanghai and Shenzen.

(https://i.postimg.cc/zGYW6Mwc/Brent-Crude2008-2022.png)

Brent Crude prices 2008-2022
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 21 August 2022, 12:56:47
Stop your DD, submit a reading every month, pay that bill, any of your money they have as credit ask for it back.
Your money should be in your pocket not theirs.

All these sky high bills are speculation.

This is what I do. OK I'm not getting the 5% discount for paying by DD, but they cannot just take what they like from my bank account either.  :y
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: LC0112G on 21 August 2022, 13:01:57
Russia, or rather Putin, is the main cause of what everyone is suffering from in many ways. So, what is it that should be done by NATO and the UN?

NATO is a defensive organisation. It cannot and will not do anything unless a member country is physically attacked. The exception is if a UN resolution asks for military assistance.

Russia is on the UN security council, and can veto any attempt to pass a resolution that affects it.

I complain about war and mans passionately pursuing that option so often………but, now swallowing hard and gulping………should the mass armed forces of our nations attack Russia, or at least target the Kremlin with Putin and his bunch of thugs, with a first, hard, and massive strike………nuclear should be avoided, perhaps, but we know from history only a massive, determined, military action will destroy the forces of the enemy. ??  I understand from the various military and media reports that Russian forces are now much weakened, and in fact have been shown to have big flaws, with low morale and soldiers (with families at home) questioning why they are fighting their brothers in Ukraine. Should we bite the bullet now? Stand up to the tyrants? Give Ukraine a massive military boost to finally cripple Putin’s forces and reputation?

What are the thoughts on here?  We would risk WW3; China is an unknown factor, but the civilised world with the common people cannot carryon being seriously damaged, as being virtually squeezed out of existence by a lack of food, heating, lighting, fuel for everything!  £6,000 my arse!! :o :o >:(
>:(

What that rant is effectively saying is that because we can no longer have cheap Russian gas, we should attack Russia. No. Even if that wasn't bound to result in WW3 and nuclear annihilation it would be wrong.

Yes we need to do what we can to support Ukraine and counter Russian aggression, but that should not be conflated with the errors the west have made in becoming dependent on cheap russian oil and gas. The blame this winter must be targeted at our own politicians who have failed us.
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: STEMO on 21 August 2022, 13:02:50
This ^
We are in the shit and it's all of our own making. I dislike Trump immensely, but he knew what was coming.
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 21 August 2022, 13:04:45


Yes we need to do what we can to support Ukraine and counter Russian aggression, but that should not be conflated with the errors the west have made in becoming dependent on cheap russian oil and gas. The blame this winter must be targeted at our own politicians who have failed us.

Agreed.  :y

Politicians of all stripes I might add.  ::)
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: Lizzie Zoom on 21 August 2022, 13:16:08
Russia, or rather Putin, is the main cause of what everyone is suffering from in many ways. So, what is it that should be done by NATO and the UN?

NATO is a defensive organisation. It cannot and will not do anything unless a member country is physically attacked. The exception is if a UN resolution asks for military assistance.

Russia is on the UN security council, and can veto any attempt to pass a resolution that affects it.

I complain about war and mans passionately pursuing that option so often………but, now swallowing hard and gulping………should the mass armed forces of our nations attack Russia, or at least target the Kremlin with Putin and his bunch of thugs, with a first, hard, and massive strike………nuclear should be avoided, perhaps, but we know from history only a massive, determined, military action will destroy the forces of the enemy. ??  I understand from the various military and media reports that Russian forces are now much weakened, and in fact have been shown to have big flaws, with low morale and soldiers (with families at home) questioning why they are fighting their brothers in Ukraine. Should we bite the bullet now? Stand up to the tyrants? Give Ukraine a massive military boost to finally cripple Putin’s forces and reputation?

What are the thoughts on here?  We would risk WW3; China is an unknown factor, but the civilised world with the common people cannot carryon being seriously damaged, as being virtually squeezed out of existence by a lack of food, heating, lighting, fuel for everything!  £6,000 my arse!! :o :o >:(
>:(

What that rant is effectively saying is that because we can no longer have cheap Russian gas, we should attack Russia. No. Even if that wasn't bound to result in WW3 and nuclear annihilation it would be wrong.

Yes we need to do what we can to support Ukraine and counter Russian aggression, but that should not be conflated with the errors the west have made in becoming dependent on cheap russian oil and gas. The blame this winter must be targeted at our own politicians who have failed us.

It is not a rant, but an expression of what tens of thousands of families are going through and asking why.  All I am doing is raising the questions that must be in many minds.  Whatever has been agreed in the past by our leaders does not help anyone now, and millions want concrete solutions to the challenges.

Is it wrong to ask the questions, or just take what comes?  I personally am ok, but as I say millions are not. Our politicians, especially those in the Conservative Party, are failing us, and are letting their internal politics get in the way of real proposals TODAY, instead everyone has to wait until 5th September.  Not good.

In my post I am just asking the questions many are at least thinking. I said I do not want WW3, but remember what happens if we let a bully carry on without real action?   ;)
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 21 August 2022, 13:24:08
Our politicians, especially those in the Conservative Party, are failing us, and are letting their internal politics get in the way of real proposals TODAY, instead everyone has to wait until 5th September.  Not good.


It was obvious that if the Prime Minister resigned there would be a hiatus while the Tories selected a new leader/Prime Minister, but nevertheless the Labour Party chose at a time of crisis to play party politics and relentlessly (with their pals in the corrupt media) banged on and on about cake for months on end and more or less ignored inflation, the looming cost of living crisis and Ukraine.  ::)

A few civil servants getting lashed up in the basements of Downing Street looks rather trivial now if you ask me.  :-X
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: LC0112G on 21 August 2022, 13:32:13
It is not a rant, but an expression of what tens of thousands of families are going through and asking why.  All I am doing is raising the questions that must be in many minds.  Whatever has been agreed in the past by our leaders does not help anyone now, and millions want concrete solutions to the challenges.

What the people need to realise is that the decisions they took 10-20 years ago are having effects now. The decisions they take now will not take effect for another 10-20 years. Anyone that thinks decisions can be made now to control things now and not have adverse effects in 10-20 years time is deluding themselves.

Is it wrong to ask the questions, or just take what comes?  I personally am ok, but as I say millions are not. Our politicians, especially those in the Conservative Party, are failing us, and are letting their internal politics get in the way of real proposals TODAY, instead everyone has to wait until 5th September.  Not good.

Politicians steer the ship. The current lot (which admittedly are a shower of shite) can only steer it from where we are now. The fault for where we are now lies with the past 10-20 years of politicians. Or more accuratly lies with those who voted for the past 10-20 years of politicians - i.e. us.

In my post I am just asking the questions many are at least thinking. I said I do not want WW3, but remember what happens if we let a bully carry on without real action?   ;)

That is conflating two issues. Yes we must stand up to Putin and his like when they invade foreign territory. No we don't have a 'right' to cheap russian resources.
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: Lizzie Zoom on 21 August 2022, 14:05:13
It is not a rant, but an expression of what tens of thousands of families are going through and asking why.  All I am doing is raising the questions that must be in many minds.  Whatever has been agreed in the past by our leaders does not help anyone now, and millions want concrete solutions to the challenges.

What the people need to realise is that the decisions they took 10-20 years ago are having effects now. The decisions they take now will not take effect for another 10-20 years. Anyone that thinks decisions can be made now to control things now and not have adverse effects in 10-20 years time is deluding themselves.

Is it wrong to ask the questions, or just take what comes?  I personally am ok, but as I say millions are not. Our politicians, especially those in the Conservative Party, are failing us, and are letting their internal politics get in the way of real proposals TODAY, instead everyone has to wait until 5th September.  Not good.

Politicians steer the ship. The current lot (which admittedly are a shower of shite) can only steer it from where we are now. The fault for where we are now lies with the past 10-20 years of politicians. Or more accuratly lies with those who voted for the past 10-20 years of politicians - i.e. us.

In my post I am just asking the questions many are at least thinking. I said I do not want WW3, but remember what happens if we let a bully carry on without real action?   ;)

That is conflating two issues. Yes we must stand up to Putin and his like when they invade foreign territory. No we don't have a 'right' to cheap russian resources.

I do agree with all the above :y

We certainly need a higher quality of politicians, and, yes, have done for decades.  The problem of our democratic system is of course the politicians have to play to the wishes of the populous to gain their votes. But that is the system of representative politics. ::) ;)
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: LC0112G on 21 August 2022, 14:22:44
I do agree with all the above :y

We certainly need a higher quality of politicians, and, yes, have done for decades.  The problem of our democratic system is of course the politicians have to play to the wishes of the populous to gain their votes. But that is the system of representative politics. ::) ;)

Ok, so what the people have to realise is that the Govt can't control very much. At best they can steer the ship. What they can't control is the rapids, whirlpools, and mines that appear in the sea from time to time.

If you oppose new nuclear power stations being built, or fracking, or onshore wind turbines, or burning coal, or tidal power, or.... without proposing a suitable alternative then you are leaving yourself wide open to unexpected events. There is literally nothing that current politicians can do to prevent hardship this winter (there isn't time), and if it happens that hardship will disproportionally affect the poor and elderly who are least able to pay for the new world order.  It always does.

Ranting and raving that "something must be done" helps no-one. It is quite possible that the west will be unable to live above it's means from now on, and that might mean a decline in living standards for (almost) everyone.
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 21 August 2022, 17:38:50
The one thing they can do this winter is to effectively pay a big chunk of peoples energy bills. They may well do this if they see it as a vote winner, and then let future generations find a way to pay for it somehow, just like the rest of the £ trillions they have put on the credit card in recent times.
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 21 August 2022, 17:47:16
https://youtu.be/FfJv9QYrlwg (https://youtu.be/FfJv9QYrlwg)

For all his undoubted faults the orange man may have a point here.
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 21 August 2022, 17:53:30
The one thing they can do this winter is to effectively pay a big chunk of peoples energy bills. They may well do this if they see it as a vote winner, and then let future generations find a way to pay for it somehow, just like the rest of the £ trillions they have put on the credit card in recent times.

This what they will do. The Government must do something hysteria is already ramping up and people are expecting the handouts to pay their bills.

All those thousands of people who have got stuck in airports and the Channel ports going off on holidays don't seem too worried about paying their bills in a few months time do they?  ::)
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: LC0112G on 21 August 2022, 20:04:08
Perhaps the govt should just ship off all the poor and elderly that can't pay their bills to Rwanda. It's an equatorial climate, so they shouldn't freeze to death there.
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: STEMO on 21 August 2022, 20:05:08
Perhaps the govt should just ship off all the poor and elderly that can't pay their bills to Rwanda. It's an equatorial climate, so they shouldn't freeze to death there.
They'd have to go by boat, the airports couldn't cope.
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: LC0112G on 21 August 2022, 20:33:34
Perhaps the govt should just ship off all the poor and elderly that can't pay their bills to Rwanda. It's an equatorial climate, so they shouldn't freeze to death there.
They'd have to go by boat, the airports couldn't cope.
Oh, I don't know. It's only taken a few months to train up DG, so it can't be that difficult :D ;D

And we're only shipping them out (no-one coming back the other way) and they're poor so won't have any luggage.
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: Varche on 21 August 2022, 20:46:19
If only Britain had an empire! A Commonwealth might be a good alternative.
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 21 August 2022, 21:12:46
https://youtu.be/FfJv9QYrlwg (https://youtu.be/FfJv9QYrlwg)

For all his undoubted faults the orange man may have a point here.
I bet ze Germans in that clip sniggering at those words aren't so chipper now :-X
Title: Re: £6000 ave. energy bills
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 21 August 2022, 21:14:06
If only Britain had an empire! A Commonwealth might be a good alternative.
With the Canadians and Kiwis getting a say? We'll be properly screwed.